Wenger Referendum IV

[Maestro]

Well well well, what say we now

[Niall_Quinn]

Could I arrange my 2018 and 2019 votes now as well please? Are you accepting postal votes?

[Maestro]

Could I arrange my 2018 and 2019 votes now as well please? Are you accepting postal votes?

sorry not taking future bookings, little bit handbrake on the booking system but log on again same time next year

[Letters]

Neither, really. I think he should go at the end of the season.

[Coney]

Poll is missing the 'Give him a new contract" option. If you are going to ask, cover all of the options even if no-one does vote that way. Even a negative site like Goonersweb should offer the choice.

[GP]

Wexit means Wexit.

[Coney]

Wexit means Wexit.

:d

But what is the plan of the Wexiteers? They never say. And will Wenger's salary be going to by better healthcare for the injured players?

[Niall_Quinn]

:d

But what is the plan of the Wexiteers? They never say. And will Wenger's salary be going to by better healthcare for the injured players?

There is an official policy for this, as well you know. When we have a plan you can back us. If not, you can stay silent. Meanwhile, thank you for your interest in our affairs.

[Niall_Quinn]

In all honesty though - who here genuinely feels sympathy for Wenger? The guy's a fucking millionaire. He can probably write his next job description (for some inexplicable reason). If we lose our jobs we wonder where the next meal is coming from. He just books into a swanky hotel and gets there first class. Different worlds. I'm not saying I'm jealous of him, I'm saying it's not an "end of the world" event as it would be for any of the fans that have been paying his salary all these years. Bit of perspective required on the sympathy trips some in the media and part of the fan base are sinking into.

[Niall_Quinn]

Meanwhile, anyone seen Ty? Has he committed suicide? Has he been at prayer to Wenger's father for the past 3 days?

[Maestro]

mods please edit thread and give Coney his "new contract" option

[Xhaka Can’t]

Done

[Xhaka Can’t]

If anyone who has voted already wants to change from wanting him gone now (option chosen by all 10) then let me know and you can vote for him to sign the contract on the table.

Though your thinking will be madder than a box of Trumps.

[Niall_Quinn]

What about a "Gone 5 years ago" option?

I think I'm okay with my, GTFO you loser, vote.

[Coney]

2 voted stay already! :d

And no - I have not voted yet.

[AFC Leveller]

In all honesty though - who here genuinely feels sympathy for Wenger? The guy's a fucking millionaire. He can probably write his next job description (for some inexplicable reason). If we lose our jobs we wonder where the next meal is coming from. He just books into a swanky hotel and gets there first class. Different worlds. I'm not saying I'm jealous of him, I'm saying it's not an "end of the world" event as it would be for any of the fans that have been paying his salary all these years. Bit of perspective required on the sympathy trips some in the media and part of the fan base are sinking into.

He is extremely well paid and rewarded not only but the club but also by BEIN Sports where he is a pundit. He has had loads of chances (and could yet stay for two more years) to fix things and produce a winning team but he's failed and he still believes we are close to the top teams.

The bullshit he has come out with forbthe last 12 years is simply unforgivable.

[Niall_Quinn]

He is extremely well paid and rewarded not only but the club but also by BEIN Sports where he is a pundit. He has had loads of chances (and could yet stay for two more years) to fix things and produce a winning team but he's failed and he still believes we are close to the top teams.

The bullshit he has come out with forbthe last 12 years is simply unforgivable.

That's how he ended up unfortunately, a bullshitter. Clough was a drunk, but Wenger has been sober all this time, as hard as that is to believe.

[Niall_Quinn]

2 votes are a pisstake I suppose. No sane fan could want him here for another 2 years.

But of course if not an outright pisstake, explain your reasoning please. Would be very interesting to hear on what grounds anyone can support this guy.

Ty and Chris Wenger barred from answering.

[Globalgunner]

Meanwhile, anyone seen Ty? Has he committed suicide? Has he been at prayer to Wenger's father for the past 3 days?

I heard he has decided to spend his time lobbying Kroenke for a toupee. Also his beanie is missing.

[fakeyank]

He cant fuck off soon enough. I dread waking up sometime in April and opening up a news site to see the dinosaur has signed a new deal.

:ilt:

[LDG]

2 votes are a pisstake I suppose. No sane fan could want him here for another 2 years.

But of course if not an outright pisstake, explain your reasoning please. Would be very interesting to hear on what grounds anyone can support this guy.

Ty and Chris Wenger barred from answering.

Probably people who think the players are responsible.

Every set of them, from about five different combinations since 2004.

Funny, as a lot of those players went on to win the league at different clubs. They just wanted to be lazy at Arsenal.

[Power n Glory]

I think the players are responsible. That doesn't excuse Wenger because he picks them and buys them but we've got some overrated players with a piss poor mentality. They'll need a kick up the ass when a new manager arrives. It's the best set of players we've had in a long time, the most expensive and the most experienced. If Senderos and Djourou had the sort of performances Musatfi and Kos, we'd put it down to quality and experience alongside the manager being terrible at setting up a defence. But certain things aren't tactical and more so a case of footballing intelligence.

Roy Keane used this example the other day when referring to Coq allowing Robben in onto his strong foot. That's down to football intelligence. Any player defending Robben should know he's going to cut in like that. The way he invited him in was stupid. He has to take responsibility for that sort of mistake. But where Wenger comes in is if he doesn't correct Coquelin for making that mistake and not dropping him if he continue to fuck up.

Mustsafi had a horror and he's supposed to be a World Cup winner. How was he caught napping so often? Kos gets far too much praise on here and he only ever looks great next to Merts. Any other partner he looks shaky. I could go on. To lose by such a huge scoreline in the 1st leg of the CL is a shocker. We could have lost 3-1 and still hope for a result at the Emirates. It's a combination of both.

The players that were leaders went on to win stuff with other clubs. The ones that were often the last to give up and not the first at the first sign of trouble. Cole, Cesc and RVP had successful careers. Clichy and Kolo have done okay for themselves too. But the overrated bums like Nasri, Adebayor, and Hleb, the ones that shunned responsibility as our key players...it hasn't worked out so well for them. They never lived up to the same hype they had at Arsenal. I'd say we have more these type of players at our club right now.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The comparison is largely symbiotic, in the sense that Wenger knows he is within reason his own boss and that he has to fail hard for his position to be under threat equally the players know (especially Ozil) that their place in the team is largely not under threat once they have made it into his first team selection.

There's only so far pride will get you, you might at first feel cross with yourself for not doing your best but if you know you'll still get your money and your place in the team, your lack of effort is consequence free.

There are some who have the character that they will never let their personal standards drop regardless of the situation, at Arsenal they are few and far between because the manager doesn't like the confrontation.

[Globalgunner]

He now is flying the kite of a 4 year contract. The ultimate WUM. Hopefully a largely empty stadium will convince him and the powers that be otherwise.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He now is flying the kite of a 4 year contract. The ultimate WUM. Hopefully a largely empty stadium will convince him and the powers that be otherwise.

In fairness that's not what he said, he said I'm 67 and Ferguson carried on to 71. I know that I'm not ready to retire, I may want to stay on longer than that, I may want to stay on for less time.

If he showed absolutely no reflection on what the fan mood is like he wouldn't even be saying "somewhere else if not Arsenal". I think he should leave us, but what he does after that is entirely up to him.....that's my position.

If he thinks that he can just stay with us until he's ready to give it up than it's incumbent on fans to make him think again (only because we know the board would love that).

[Niall_Quinn]

In fairness that's not what he said, he said I'm 67 and Ferguson carried on to 71. I know that I'm not ready to retire, I may want to stay on longer than that, I may want to stay on for less time.

If he showed absolutely no reflection on what the fan mood is like he wouldn't even be saying "somewhere else if not Arsenal". I think he should leave us, but what he does after that is entirely up to him.....that's my position.

If he thinks that he can just stay with us until he's ready to give it up than it's incumbent on fans to make him think again (only because we know the board would love that).

Sounds to me like he's trying to get the club to make a statement. He's saying, I'll be managing next year, I want it to be at Arsenal but it could be somewhere else. That's a come and get me message to Arsenal and anyone else out there who is interested. This isn't a message to the media or the fans. He's stated his intention and placed the onus on the club to make a decision. I suspect that decision has already been made and I suspect it is to leave that contract on the table and ask him to sign it. Wenger can then say the club wants him, he wants to stay and even though the fans are anti they have to accept there are people better placed to make the decisions in the best interests of the club. In a recent online media poll it is claimed 47% of Arsenal fans want him to stay. That's incredible really, hard to fathom, but if true then he can genuinely claim almost all the pieces are in place. The club, tick. Himself, tick. Half the fans, tick. And I assume the next tactic is to start rolling out players to support Le Boss. Beat up Sutton, assume it's a prelude to delivering another FA Cup. Get a few wins under the belt and move back up the table. Get a commitment from either Ozil or Alexis, throw in a few hints about major signings.

My gut tells me Wenger is going to weather this and they might even split the difference and roll out a 3 year, rather than 2 year, renewal.

[Globalgunner]

Thats why I termed it flying a kite. He has to be deaf, dumb and blind not to know that the tideof opinion is largely against him. If he is as good as he thinks he is, the Bayerns, Barcas and RMs of Europe will be queueing up to recruit him. The only club in Europe stupid enough to employ him now is Arsenal.
The fans need to see that this is the time to let everyone know that we are fed up of his perrennial shortcomings

[Globalgunner]

Sounds to me like he's trying to get the club to make a statement. He's saying, I'll be managing next year, I want it to be at Arsenal but it could be somewhere else. That's a come and get me message to Arsenal and anyone else out there who is interested. This isn't a message to the media or the fans. He's stated his intention and placed the onus on the club to make a decision. I suspect that decision has already been made and I suspect it is to leave that contract on the table and ask him to sign it. Wenger can then say the club wants him, he wants to stay and even though the fans are anti they have to accept there are people better placed to make the decisions in the best interests of the club. In a recent online media poll it is claimed 47% of Arsenal fans want him to stay. That's incredible really, hard to fathom, but if true then he can genuinely claim almost all the pieces are in place. The club, tick. Himself, tick. Half the fans, tick. And I assume the next tactic is to start rolling out players to support Le Boss. Beat up Sutton, assume it's a prelude to delivering another FA Cup. Get a few wins under the belt and move back up the table. Get a commitment from either Ozil or Alexis, throw in a few hints about major signings.

My gut tells me Wenger is going to weather this and they might even split the difference and roll out a 3 year, rather than 2 year, renewal.

I wouldnt put too much credence to an open poll that allows fans of other clubs to have a say. If that is the result of a poll of genuine fans. Then I might as well hang up my keyboard. Thats like cows voting to keep a local tannery. Stupid idiots!

[selassie]

Thats why I termed it flying a kite. He has to be deaf, dumb and blind not to know that the tideof opinion is largely against him. If he is as good as he thinks he is, the Bayerns, Barcas and RMs of Europe will be queueing up to recruit him. The only club in Europe stupid enough to employ him now is Arsenal.
The fans need to see that this is the time to let everyone know that we are fed up of his perrennial shortcomings

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

I wouldnt put too much credence to an open poll that allows fans of other clubs to have a say. If that is the result of a poll of genuine fans. Then I might as well hang up my keyboard. Thats like cows voting to keep a local tannery. Stupid idiots!

Also consider though, we get to see and hear the vociferous 1% of fans and don't hear much from the silent majority who don't post to forums, don't given opinions on social media. If you think back to the last organised (semi-organised) protest, it was met with a wall of support for Wenger from inside the stadium. I think a lot of fans who aren't heavily invested either way and maybe see football as a day out are easily sold on the great man, done so much, built the stadium with his bare hands, we owe him respect narrative. It wouldn't surprise me at all if 47% or even higher are happy for Wenger to stick around. Also wouldn't surprise me if during the next few games, rather than hearing howls of discontent, we hear strong support for Wenger. From the home crowd that is. Sounds like the away fans have had their fill, though they are in a very small minority in terms of numbers.

[Niall_Quinn]

Are either of the two who voted pro Wenger prepared to say why? If it was a joke, no big deal. But if genuine, what's the thinking behind your view? Not asking so you can be pounced on from all sides (although that will happen and I'll probablydefinitely join in) but because I have been trying to find one good reason why the guy should stay and I can't find it. What am I missing?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

In some ways the board have tried to make this all about him by offering the contract and saying Arsene will decide his own future which takes all the heat off them, Wenger in that sense is just trying to return the favour.

Again if I thought he was going to turn around and say well the fans don't want me here but I'll stay anyway, he would have signed the contract already....if he clearly doesn't give a fuck about the negative reaction of fans that contract would have already been signed. I think he's playing for time to get fan opinion back on his side but I think he knows back of his mind he's past the point of no return and the fans won't get back on side.

Either way trying to observe what it all means is largely tea leaf reading anyway, the fact that he is no where near ready to retire should be a surprise to no one. That there is even doubt that he would carry on at Arsenal when there never has been previously suggests he's on a very slender foothold at the very least, not from the board but because the fan base has turned on him.

[Özim]

He needs to go and should have gone years ago to be honest, the fact there's now talk of 4 years just shows what the club and manager think of the fans.

The guy doesn't love Arsenal, if he did he'd be moving on realising noone (except the more delusional) want him here, in the end though I can see the guy staying on and not giving a toss about the fans, it's what he does best to be honest, troll the fans.

He's a total embarassment, but he can't see it.

[selassie]

Wenger really has his work cut out if he wants to preserve his record of top 4 finishes. We actually have a very difficult run-in and if I was a betting man I'd say this is the year we drop out of top 4. Those last 4 fixtures are brutal.

Premier League

Southampton P-P Arsenal Sat 25 Feb

Liverpool V Arsenal Sat 4 Mar 17:30

Arsenal P-P Leicester City Postponed Sat 11 Mar

West Bromwich Albion V Arsenal Sat 18 Mar 12:30

Arsenal V Manchester City Sun 2 Apr 16:00

Arsenal V West Ham United Wed 5 Apr 19:45

Crystal Palace V Arsenal Mon 10 Apr 20:00

Middlesbrough V Arsenal Mon 17 Apr 20:00

Arsenal V Sunderland Sat 22 Apr 15:00

Tottenham Hotspur V Arsenal Sun 30 Apr 16:30

Arsenal V Manchester United Sat 6 May 15:00

Stoke City V Arsenal Sat 13 May 15:00

Arsenal V Everton Sun 21 May 15:00

[Niall_Quinn]

The whole top 4 thing is a sick joke. We're better off fielding a reserve team against Bayern and taking another hammering so we can rest senior players for a very tough schedule (including those 2 postponed games being inserted somewhere) that we need to conquer if we want to pick up the points to finish top 4 so we can reach next season's last 16 of the CL where we'll get hammered by Bayern. Cyclical insanity, in football terms. But in terms of money - just lovely. It is very, very, very obvious where the board's and Wenger's focus is. Lovely, lovely money.

Sir Chips Fuckturd has already proclaimed we won't be paying the necessary wages to have top players at the club. So we're never winning, or even properly competing in, the CL under this regime. So my preference would be to send the first team out against Bayern with instructions to recover their pride and show the fans there's still some hope at this club. Even then, it's pretty sad when "glorious failure" becomes the best outcome you can wish for. But there it is, that's what the board and Wenger have reduced this club to.

After that, take each one of those games and do whatever it takes to win each and every one of them. Punching, kicking, biting, or even playing football. Hoofing the fucker, actually running a bit, being professional, responsible, more determined than the other guy, more desperate to win - Well we won't do any of that.

So finishing outside the top 4, given we can forget about attracting top players either way, is not such a bad thing. At least it breaks the cycle and disrupts this horrendous money making scheme the suits have stuck the club with.

[Marc Overmars]

Genuinely don't give a shit where we finish anymore.

For sake of the club and the fans who do care, hopefully we finish as high as we can but it won't make a difference to the loser mentality that flows through the club.

[Özim]

This club isn't setup to compete, we have everything we need financially but we have this real losers mentality running from top to bottom, another sign of it is that despite raking in the cash we won't pay the going rate for top players, we really are cheap...yet we're happy to offer kids new contract after new contract for achieving nothing, the lack of common sense is alarming.

Why are people willing to pay top whack for such a sub standard product (and it is sub standard) is beyond me, the cherry on the cake is that despite paying rdiiculous money they are then patronised and blamed by the club.

I can't think why anyone would want this regime to carry on to be honest, 4 people on here seem to want it, surely that's a joke?

[selassie]

Genuinely don't give a shit where we finish anymore.

For sake of the club and the fans who do care, hopefully we finish as high as we can but it won't make a difference to the loser mentality that flows through the club.

I'm the same, in previous years I was anxious but this year I'm not actually fussed, 4th,5th,6th or 7th, none of it means anything anymore because nothing will change.

[selassie]

The whole top 4 thing is a sick joke. We're better off fielding a reserve team against Bayern and taking another hammering so we can rest senior players for a very tough schedule (including those 2 postponed games being inserted somewhere) that we need to conquer if we want to pick up the points to finish top 4 so we can reach next season's last 16 of the CL where we'll get hammered by Bayern. Cyclical insanity, in football terms. But in terms of money - just lovely. It is very, very, very obvious where the board's and Wenger's focus is. Lovely, lovely money.

Sir Chips Fuckturd has already proclaimed we won't be paying the necessary wages to have top players at the club. So we're never winning, or even properly competing in, the CL under this regime. So my preference would be to send the first team out against Bayern with instructions to recover their pride and show the fans there's still some hope at this club. Even then, it's pretty sad when "glorious failure" becomes the best outcome you can wish for. But there it is, that's what the board and Wenger have reduced this club to.

After that, take each one of those games and do whatever it takes to win each and every one of them. Punching, kicking, biting, or even playing football. Hoofing the fucker, actually running a bit, being professional, responsible, more determined than the other guy, more desperate to win - Well we won't do any of that.

So finishing outside the top 4, given we can forget about attracting top players either way, is not such a bad thing. At least it breaks the cycle and disrupts this horrendous money making scheme the suits have stuck the club with.

Yep, the "losing is acceptable" culture needs to be removed before we can really move forward and start competing properly.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yep, the "losing is acceptable" culture needs to be removed before we can really move forward and start competing properly.

I don't imagine they see it as a "losing is acceptable" culture. They'll look at the balance sheet, look at the financial growth, look at the money coming in from "trophies" such as the "Top 4 World Championship" and the "20 Years CL Appearance Super Cup", look at the tens of thousands in the stadium and the sponsorship deals and every other indicator and I'm sure they think it's all a resounding success. They have said it. They are perplexed at why the fans can't see the glory too. Before Wenger came we had X millions in the bank, now we have X times infinity millions in the bank. We are also "Best Financially Run World Champions" for the 20th year running. We have retained the "Moral Superiority Cup" for 2 decades running. Players such as Fabregas, Arshavin, RvC, Ozil and Alexis have graced the team while passing through. And yet this isn't enough for the fans who keep going on about league titles and European titles even though it makes no significant difference financially whether you win these things or not. Obviously the fans know nothing about finances, in their blind ignorance they criticise Wenger who is the undisputed financial master of Corporation Football. But that's okay because these fans are in the process of being priced out, so the fan base is a short term problem that will be solved in the near future.

They'll look at the drop dead gorgeous, uber sexy, smoking hot share price and whip their tool into a lather. If this is "losing" they can live with it. For as long as they can keep the gravy train on the rails.

And unless Alan Greenspan is available, Wenger will be staying so we can have years more of this unprecedented success. So what if a few oiks don't have the grace or breeding to show a bit of gratitude?

[Letters]

They'll look at the drop dead gorgeous, uber sexy, smoking hot share price and whip their tool into a lather.
:sick:

[Letters]

Are either of the two who voted pro Wenger prepared to say why? If it was a joke, no big deal. But if genuine, what's the thinking behind your view? Not asking so you can be pounced on from all sides (although that will happen and I'll probablydefinitely join in) but because I have been trying to find one good reason why the guy should stay and I can't find it. What am I missing?

He needs to go but I don't agree with your assertion in a post I can't be bothered to try and find now that anyone would do.
My fear was always that we would end up worse off in a post Brexit, post Wenger world. Right now I've got to the point where I don't care any more, it's increasingly clear that we're not going to win the biggest trophies under Wenger and while IMO he earned the right to try to push us on when the new financial deals were in place he's clearly not able to take us any further.
But I don't buy the logic that just because Wenger can't do the job that means it doesn't matter who else comes in because they might be able to and at least that's potentially better.
Most managers definitely couldn't push us on so we still need to consider the next appointment carefully. The trouble is for the board Wenger IS the perfect manager, there is no reason for them to want to rock the boat.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That Analysis can only go so far, the self-sustainability of the club whilst not as totally dependent on gate receipts as it was would make a dent in the club's profits and affect sponsorship if Wenger stays. They have offered him a deal, in the same way Pontius Pilate washed his hands....they don't want to take responsibility to sack Wenger and they'd definitely 100% want him to stay but if Wenger signs on all the pressure and responsibility goes to him.

As much as Wenger should go because he can't hack it any more, i think the idea that the board are unflappably loyal to him is wide of the mark....he's a good lightning rod for them.

[Letters]

I'm not sure loyal is the word but what he's doing is perfectly aligned with that they want out of the club.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm not sure loyal is the word but what he's doing is perfectly aligned with that they want out of the club.

It is, but more than that they know that ultimately he takes the flacks if the fans expectations are not met

However they are being very short termist, I simply cannot see how Wenger staying won't cause a downturn in season ticket sales and matchday attendance in general.

[fakeyank]

Hope we finish outside the top 4. I take no joy playing a bit part role every CL season. My gut says that finishing outside the top 4 would mean Wenger doesnt sign a contract extension.. just because of that, I hope we finish as far away from the top 4 as possible.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think he only signs a contract if we win the fa cup

[Niall_Quinn]

I think he only signs a contract if we win the fa cup

How does that work? We've already done, Sign a super-star and win the FA Cup, but we still woke up to the latest run of groundhog day.

[Globalgunner]

Enrique has just announced he is stepping down as Barca coach at the end of season. Beautiful. A man who knows he has fallen below the expectations of fans and club so is honorably stepping aside. Good news for Wenger, the perfect vacancy now exists. Just do it man!

[Niall_Quinn]

Enrique has just announced he is stepping down as Barca coach at the end of season. Beautiful. A man who knows he has fallen below the expectations of fans and club so is honorably stepping aside. Good news for Wenger, the perfect vacancy now exists. Just do it man!

Does that ever happen in the real world? Something so fortuitous? We get a new manager and Barca get Wenger? Never happens.

[AFC Leveller]

Enrique has just announced he is stepping down as Barca coach at the end of season. Beautiful. A man who knows he has fallen below the expectations of fans and club so is honorably stepping aside. Good news for Wenger, the perfect vacancy now exists. Just do it man!

Was just about to post something similar!

accoridng to French journos, he'll sign a two year deal and "doesnt want to ever leave".

[AFC Leveller]

From the Telepgraph:

Arsenal owner Stan Kroenke remains desperate for Wenger to stay and his two-year contract extension offer includes a 25 per cent increase from £8m-a-year to around £10m-a-year.

That will infuriate fans who believe Wenger should go after perceived failures in the Premier League title race and the Champions League, but the 67-year-old has already proved that his final decision will not be based on money.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

How does that work? We've already done, Sign a super-star and win the FA Cup, but we still woke up to the latest run of groundhog day.

Precisely why I don't want us to win the FA cup

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

From the Telepgraph:

Arsenal owner Stan Kroenke remains desperate for Wenger to stay and his two-year contract extension offer includes a 25 per cent increase from £8m-a-year to around £10m-a-year.

That will infuriate fans who believe Wenger should go after perceived failures in the Premier League title race and the Champions League, but the 67-year-old has already proved that his final decision will not be based on money.

This isn't news

[Globalgunner]

Precisely why I don't want us to win the FA cup

No fear. we wont. Wenger has never met a top 4 rival in a cup competition and won since in about a decade.

[Özim]

Does that ever happen in the real world? Something so fortuitous? We get a new manager and Barca get Wenger? Never happens.

:pray:

[Özim]

From the Telepgraph:

Arsenal owner Stan Kroenke remains desperate for Wenger to stay and his two-year contract extension offer includes a 25 per cent increase from £8m-a-year to around £10m-a-year.

That will infuriate fans who believe Wenger should go after perceived failures in the Premier League title race and the Champions League, but the 67-year-old has already proved that his final decision will not be based on money.

Another contract and another pay rise for delivering the rubbish he does, what is there left to say, sums up the culture at Arsenal, if you're average your guaranteed new contracts and payrises. :rolleyes:

[Özim]

You gotta love the audacity of this club, the more discontent there is amongst the fans the more they rub it in their face, there is literally no other club where fans opinions matter so little, it's so apparently clear that noone at the club gives a toss what the fans think.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No fear. we wont. Wenger has never met a top 4 rival in a cup competition and won since in about a decade.

United two years ago

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Five years ago we played Liverpool at Anfield on Saturday 3rd March on a lunchtime prior to a midweek champions league game at home where we had to overturn a 4 goal deficit

On Saturday 4th March we play Liverpool at Anfield on a lunchtime kick off prior to a midweek champions league game at home where we need to overturn a 4 goal deficit

[Marc Overmars]

Five years ago we played Liverpool at Anfield on Saturday 3rd March on a lunchtime prior to a midweek champions league game at home where we had to overturn a 4 goal deficit

On Saturday 4th March we play Liverpool at Anfield on a lunchtime kick off prior to a midweek champions league game at home where we need to overturn a 4 goal deficit

Close but the Liverpool game is a 17:30 kick off.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well bugger me with a broom handle you're right. For some reason thought it was a lunchtime thing

And just so we are clear, that was a figure of speech not an invitation

[Niall_Quinn]

Klopp and Liverpool are in a similar sort of hole right now. What they need is a leg-up, a helping hand, something to restore their confidence and get their season back on track.

But what?

[Niall_Quinn]

Arsene quickly out to remind us he prefers Arsenal to a job where he'd have to win something. Stan out to remind us he'll pay whatever it takes to keep that Wenger bloke in charge at that soccer fund over there in Great England.

Can you have too much stability? If Kroenke had owned White Star and Wenger was the captain of the Titanic it never would have sank. Everybody would still be alive today. The ship would be pristine because it would never have left port - ever. Way too risky taking something like that out onto the ocean. Cheaper on fuel too.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Close but the Liverpool game is a 17:30 kick off.

:haha:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Klopp and Liverpool are in a similar sort of hole right now. What they need is a leg-up, a helping hand, something to restore their confidence and get their season back on track.

But what?

It's a real head scratcher.

[selassie]

Arsene quickly out to remind us he prefers Arsenal to a job where he'd have to win something. Stan out to remind us he'll pay whatever it takes to keep that Wenger bloke in charge at that soccer fund over there in Great England.

Can you have too much stability? If Kroenke had owned White Star and Wenger was the captain of the Titanic it never would have sank. Everybody would still be alive today. The ship would be pristine because it would never have left port - ever. Way too risky taking something like that out onto the ocean. Cheaper on fuel too.

Gold! :haha:

[Marc Overmars]

Klopp and Liverpool are in a similar sort of hole right now. What they need is a leg-up, a helping hand, something to restore their confidence and get their season back on track.

But what?

You don't get a more charitable team than us. We're nice like that.

[selassie]

Klopp and Liverpool are in a similar sort of hole right now. What they need is a leg-up, a helping hand, something to restore their confidence and get their season back on track.

But what?

Wenger is in no hole really because he's under little to no pressure. Our spineless board are begging him to stay with the incentive of a 25% pay rise. Wenger is in a unique position in that he's one of the only managers out there in World Football who isn't judged on team performance.

Im not falling for him with this delaying of decision waiting to see where the team finish. He will extend regardless of what happens, we have been here before with him.

Morever our collapse in the title race last season was a complete disgrace, any manager of any other TOP team would have been fired for what happened at Arsenal last season.

Wenger is under no pressure really....he's not in a hole either as he pretty much dictates what he perceives is an acceptable season.

[Letters]

Wenger is in a unique position in that he's one of the only managers out there in World Football who isn't judged on team performance.
Of course he is, it's just that the board's definition of acceptable team performance is different from the fans as they have different perspectives.

[Niall_Quinn]

Gold! :haha:

The fans are the stupid passengers. Turning up each year, paying the exorbitant ticket price, sitting there waiting for something to happen, eventually buggering off with Captain Wenger waving, "See you next year!"

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger is in no hole really because he's under little to no pressure. Our spineless board are begging him to stay with the incentive of a 25% pay rise. Wenger is in a unique position in that he's one of the only managers out there in World Football who isn't judged on team performance.

Im not falling for him with this delaying of decision waiting to see where the team finish. He will extend regardless of what happens, we have been here before with him.

Morever our collapse in the title race last season was a complete disgrace, any manager of any other TOP team would have been fired for what happened at Arsenal last season.

Wenger is under no pressure really....he's not in a hole either as he pretty much dictates what he perceives is an acceptable season.

You sound like a very ungrateful person.

[Niall_Quinn]

Of course he is, it's just that the board's definition of acceptable team performance is different from the fans as they have different perspectives.

Agreed. It's the fans' fault.

[Letters]

Gold! :haha:

Poor analogy. Of course we'd be sailing, we just wouldn't be going at full pelt trying to get there as soon as possible to wow the press.
And we wouldn't have lost the binoculars which would have helped us avoid icebergs. :sulk:

[Letters]

Agreed. It's the fans' fault.

Yep. That's what I said :good:

[Niall_Quinn]

Poor analogy. Of course we'd be sailing, we just wouldn't be going at full pelt trying to get there as soon as possible to wow the press.
And we wouldn't have lost the binoculars which would have helped us avoid icebergs. :sulk:

We'd be hitting every iceberg in the North Atlantic, sometimes twice.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yep. That's what I said :good:

I know.

[selassie]

Of course he is, it's just that the board's definition of acceptable team performance is different from the fans as they have different perspectives.

He's in a unique position Letters...he wouldn't have lasted the distance anywhere else. He would have been shown the door at all of our rivals for last season which even by his low standards was an abomination.

He should have walked after last season out of principle...yet we are here discussing whether he feels like extending his contract or not...it's absolutely crazy.

[Letters]

We'd be hitting every iceberg in the North Atlantic, sometimes twice.

We'd probably hit the same few over and over again.

[Letters]

He's in a unique position Letters...he wouldn't have lasted the distance anywhere else. He would have been shown the door at all of our rivals for last season which even by his low standards was an abomination.

He should have walked after last season out of principle...yet we are here discussing whether he feels like extending his contract or not...it's absolutely crazy.

Well I agree with that but it's just not true to say he's under no pressure.
If we'd slipped in to mid table (as many on here predicted we would) then I think he'd have been long gone.
He's meeting his bosses expectations, just not the fans expectations but while we keep qualifying for the CL and the fans keep buying the tickets and the shirts there's no reason the board would want to change anything.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well I agree with that but it's just not true to say he's under no pressure.
If we'd slipped in to mid table (as many on here predicted we would) then I think he'd have been long gone.
He's meeting his bosses expectations, just not the fans expectations but while we keep qualifying for the CL and the fans keep buying the tickets and the shirts there's no reason the board would want to change anything.

Apart from the primary reason we are all here in the first place. Competitive sport. And if that's not their primary reason then they should all fuck off and go into hedge fund management. The fans' expectations are aligned with the purpose of the sport, the board's and the manager's aren't. If the promise had been austerity in return for a big new stadium and eternal 4th place so Stan could mortgage himself to the hilt and Wenger could have a job for life then only Ty and Chris Wenger and the Mysterious Four would have been up for that. Everyone else would have said fuck off.

Wenger is certainly fulfilling the ambitions of the board, no doubt about that. But what's that got to do with Arsenal Football Club? Nothing.

The question is, what do this lot achieve in terms of the intended purpose of this club? Answer is, nothing of relevance. It's a basic requirement to make sure the place doesn't go bankrupt. You don't get prizes and plaudits for not bankrupting the place, or at least you shouldn't. This lot have turned the bare minimum into the height of achievement and they are so delusional they boast about it.

Well, in terms of why we are all supposed to be here, they are the biggest losers in the game. The fact they can't see it doesn't change the reality.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Arsene quickly out to remind us he prefers Arsenal to a job where he'd have to win something. Stan out to remind us he'll pay whatever it takes to keep that Wenger bloke in charge at that soccer fund over there in Great England.

Can you have too much stability? If Kroenke had owned White Star and Wenger was the captain of the Titanic it never would have sank. Everybody would still be alive today. The ship would be pristine because it would never have left port - ever. Way too risky taking something like that out onto the ocean. Cheaper on fuel too.

Wenger: We sailed a little bit with the handbrake on, but i did see zee Iceberg

Interviewer: Arsene there was little to no mist and the sea was calm that night

Wenger: You are being disrespectful, everyone thinks they are an expert

[fakeyank]

What is the likelihood he will be offered a new contract if we finish 4th, versus the likelihood if we finish 7th or 8th? I think the probability greatly decreases of him getting a new contract if we finish outside the top 4. So it wouldnt be so bad if we lost all our remaining PL games.. add in a good thumping from Bayern at home as well. That'll go down real well.

[selassie]

Well I agree with that but it's just not true to say he's under no pressure.
If we'd slipped in to mid table (as many on here predicted we would) then I think he'd have been long gone.
He's meeting his bosses expectations, just not the fans expectations but while we keep qualifying for the CL and the fans keep buying the tickets and the shirts there's no reason the board would want to change anything.

Slipping to mid table? I can't remember ever seeing that being predicted on here regularly, what an earth are you talking about?

Is he really under pressure? I mean true pressure...like actually being accountable for team performance and tangible improvements on team performances year on year? I'm not for one minute suggesting he's the worst manager in the world and I'm not suggesting that he could literally relegate us season after season and stay in the job but he's not really under any kind of pressure.

Meeting his bosses expectations given the resources he has it his disposal isn't difficult, he's not in a pressured environment if he is not performing to the best of his abilities. Managers at other top clubs are judged on performing to the best of their abilities, you think Wenger would get away with this anywhere else? He keeps reminding us that he wouldn't swap Arsenal for anywhere else...of course he wouldn't! He would be toast at any other top club!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

What is the likelihood he will be offered a new contract if we finish 4th, versus the likelihood if we finish 7th or 8th? I think the probability greatly decreases of him getting a new contract if we finish outside the top 4. So it wouldnt be so bad if we lost all our remaining PL games.. add in a good thumping from Bayern at home as well. That'll go down real well.

the new contract has already been offered, no matter where he finishes they aren't going to retract it. It's up to Wenger whether he signs it or not

[Globalgunner]

Slipping to mid table? I can't remember ever seeing that being predicted on here regularly, what an earth are you talking about?

Is he really under pressure? I mean true pressure...like actually being accountable for team performance and tangible improvements on team performances year on year? I'm not for one minute suggesting he's the worst manager in the world and I'm not suggesting that he could literally relegate us season after season and stay in the job but he's not really under any kind of pressure.

Meeting his bosses expectations given the resources he has it his disposal isn't difficult, he's not in a pressured environment if he is not performing to the best of his abilities. Managers at other top clubs are judged on performing to the best of their abilities, you think Wenger would get away with this anywhere else? He keeps reminding us that he wouldn't swap Arsenal for anywhere else...of course he wouldn't! He would be toast at any other top club!

You'll have to excuse Letters. His is a case of the Sixth Sense. He sees imaginary posters.

[fakeyank]

the new contract has already been offered, no matter where he finishes they aren't going to retract it. It's up to Wenger whether he signs it or not

I think things can dramatically change if we lose half our games between now and the end of the season. I can see fan pressure changing the owners mind. Again, the higher probability is that the offer will still be good come May, but if that probability reduces by even 1% with us finishing outside the top 4 and absolutely pissing off the last few PL games, I am all for it. At the end of the day, it doesnt make an iota of difference if we finish 4th or 8th or 17th. If you aint first, you are last!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think things can dramatically change if we lose half our games between now and the end of the season. I can see fan pressure changing the owners mind. Again, the higher probability is that the offer will still be good come May, but if that probability reduces by even 1% with us finishing outside the top 4 and absolutely pissing off the last few PL games, I am all for it. At the end of the day, it doesnt make an iota of difference if we finish 4th or 8th or 17th. If you aint first, you are last!

I think if he finishes outside the top four, or fails to win a trophy than i think he will decide to go, but the board have made it clear it's his decision.

[selassie]

Wenger: We sailed a little bit with the handbrake on, but i did see zee Iceberg

Interviewer: Arsene there was little to no mist and the sea was calm that night

Wenger: You are being disrespectful, everyone thinks they are an expert

:lol:

[fakeyank]

I think if he finishes outside the top four, or fails to win a trophy than i think he will decide to go, but the board have made it clear it's his decision.

I beg to differ on that. I do not think Wenger will walk out himself. I used to believe that he was a 'good man' who wasnt in it for the money up until a few years back. Now I do not believe in that anymore. I think he is in it for the money, and if offered a new contract, he will sign it.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think things can dramatically change if we lose half our games between now and the end of the season. I can see fan pressure changing the owners mind. Again, the higher probability is that the offer will still be good come May, but if that probability reduces by even 1% with us finishing outside the top 4 and absolutely pissing off the last few PL games, I am all for it. At the end of the day, it doesnt make an iota of difference if we finish 4th or 8th or 17th. If you aint first, you are last!

We have to avoid further damage though. Blowing everything up as the only way to ensure getting Wenger is one way to go, but it leaves anyone who replaces him with an even greater task. A real catch 22 with every angle working in Wenger and the board's favour. It has reached this point because too many fans have been too complacent for too long (myself included). We should have been creating merry hell years ago. Now we've reached the point where one banner in the stadium gets greeted with outrage from a still significant section of the fan base and virtually the whole media. It's ridiculous, even a polite criticism is viewed as sacrilegious. Instead of the fans demanding the owner, the board, the manager and the players meet our standards it has been the latter who have trained the fans to meet theirs. I think hoping the club blows up is just more of the fans wanting to shift the responsibility of getting the job done. We need to be winning games and placing ourselves in the best position for a new manager to take advantage. And we need to be raising our voices and demanding the manager gets the hell out because he's had so much time and so much patience to this point and he's blown it all. If we want to blow things up then blow up those plastics who sit there in their expensive seats and call themselves fans just because they have the dosh to get through the door. And next time they sing Wenger's name or boo when a fan who expects a bit more sticks a banner up, then let the bastards have it with both barrels. For me, complacent fans are an even bigger problem than the general complacency in the boardroom and the manager's office. Put a rocket up the backsides of those shitty consumer fans, break their resolve to defend their Wenger god no matter what the circumstances and when that barrier is down go all out against Wenger and the board - EVEN WHEN WE ARE WINNING MATCHES. Especially when we are winning matches. Because it's about far, far more than results now.

Also, somebody needs to make a banner that states Gary Neville is a CUNT. This should be a priority.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I beg to differ on that. I do not think Wenger will walk out himself. I used to believe that he was a 'good man' who wasnt in it for the money up until a few years back. Now I do not believe in that anymore. I think he is in it for the money, and if offered a new contract, he will sign it.

The contract has been offered to him

If he was going to sign on no matter what, he would have done so already......he's looking for a turnaround in fortune to make it more acceptable but if that is not forthcoming he won't sign. And i don't think it's the money that motivates him, it's the total control he has over every footballing aspect of the club...he is scared of going from that to nothing.

The only reason he's holding out is because i think the fan reaction is getting to him, and i don't mean that to be sympathetic or say the fans shouldn't be doing it. But he's not a robot, i think he knows the fans have turned now....but he believes if we finish the season strongly it will be enough for people to accept him taking another two years.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Because it's about far, far more than results now.

It's 100% about results, when he signed on three years ago i wasn't keen at all on the idea, but i could understand the idea that he deserved the chance to see if he could spend more money and if that would make a difference.

He's had three seasons and it has made absolutely no difference....we know the failings are a by product of his fiefdom when he micromanages everything and seems unable and unwilling to take outside advice/assistance.

I agree the football has been substandard but i'd lump that in with results, the way he has our teams playing means we might scrape results against mid-table sides but we are doomed as per usual against the sides in and around us.

[Niall_Quinn]

The contract has been offered to him

If he was going to sign on no matter what, he would have done so already......he's looking for a turnaround in fortune to make it more acceptable but if that is not forthcoming he won't sign. And i don't think it's the money that motivates him, it's the total control he has over every footballing aspect of the club...he is scared of going from that to nothing.

The only reason he's holding out is because i think the fan reaction is getting to him, and i don't mean that to be sympathetic or say the fans shouldn't be doing it. But he's not a robot, i think he knows the fans have turned now....but he believes if we finish the season strongly it will be enough for people to accept him taking another two years.

"The fans have turned", at our place means people posting slightly controversial message online. Actually turning would mean a relentless chorus of, "We want Wenger OUT!, throughout 90 minutes. We have the politest, most whipped fans in football. Some bloke with a tattoo going around saying, "Please Arsene, you've been great and all but, if it's not too much trouble, could you leave?", is viewed as hard core. We are a million miles away from turning, from what I can see. Most of us are still here pleading with a guy who already thinks he's doing the right thing, to do the right thing.

[Letters]

Apart from the primary reason we are all here in the first place. Competitive sport. And if that's not their primary reason then they should all fuck off and go into hedge fund management. The fans' expectations are aligned with the purpose of the sport, the board's and the manager's aren't.
Well, I don't agree about the manager's, I don't think he's able to achieve more but I believe he wants to, I can't think of any reason why he wouldn't want to.
I was simply responding to the notion that he's under no pressure. He is, but the pressure he's under is from people whose interests expectations are different from the fans.
I wasn't saying it's a good thing.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

"The fans have turned", at our place means people posting slightly controversial message online. Actually turning would mean a relentless chorus of, "We want Wenger OUT!, throughout 90 minutes. We have the politest, most whipped fans in football. Some bloke with a tattoo going around saying, "Please Arsene, you've been great and all but, if it's not too much trouble, could you leave?", is viewed as hard core. We are a million miles away from turning, from what I can see. Most of us are still here pleading with a guy who already thinks he's doing the right thing, to do the right thing.

and if the fans were that vociferous he'd be gone already, but it's rather besides the point. He is getting stick and abuse every time we lose, especially in away games

If it wasn't getting to him, we wouldn't have seen that John Cross hit piece on the fans last month.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's 100% about results, when he signed on three years ago i wasn't keen at all on the idea, but i could understand the idea that he deserved the chance to see if he could spend more money and if that would make a difference.

He's had three seasons and it has made absolutely no difference....we know the failings are a by product of his fiefdom when he micromanages everything and seems unable and unwilling to take outside advice/assistance.

I agree the football has been substandard but i'd lump that in with results, the way he has our teams playing means we might scrape results against mid-table sides but we are doomed as per usual against the sides in and around us.

It's about the rotten attitude that runs through this club from top to bottom. You can forget about results while that attitude prevails. We've been conned by that before. A run of wins, top of the table even. But we all know where it ends because the winning mentality is nonexistent in this club. From an owner that knows fuck all and can't be bothered to turn up, through a manager that worships the consistency of averageness, to players who will take a wheelbarrow of cash and a selfie for finishing 4th, down to a considerable number of fans who beg us to remember what Wenger did before some of them were even born. It stinks. We aren't at the results bit yet, there's still a ton of work to do before we get there.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's about the rotten attitude that runs through this club from top to bottom. You can forget about results while that attitude prevails. We've been conned by that before. A run of wins, top of the table even. But we all know where it ends because the winning mentality is nonexistent in this club. From an owner that knows fuck all and can't be bothered to turn up, through a manager that worships the consistency of averageness, to players who will take a wheelbarrow of cash and a selfie for finishing 4th, down to a considerable number of fans who beg us to remember what Wenger did before some of them were even born. It stinks. We aren't at the results bit yet, there's still a ton of work to do before we get there.

All of this is a causal factor for the results, but ultimately the majority shareholder could use the club as a front for drug and people trafficking and the board could be a satan worshipping paedophile ring but the fans wouldn't care if the results were good.

People are fed up of the attitude at the club because we aren't competing in the way we were promised borne out by the results, it's 100% the results and everything else is an offshoot of that.

[Niall_Quinn]

and if the fans were that vociferous he'd be gone already, but it's rather besides the point. He is getting stick and abuse every time we lose, especially in away games

If it wasn't getting to him, we wouldn't have seen that John Cross hit piece on the fans last month.

And he should be getting stick every time we win too. And on all the days between matches. That's how the job gets done. The message needs to be, no more, we've heard it all before, seen it a thousand times, now get the fuck out! And when he's gone and a new guy comes in, for that guy to have any real chance the fans then need to turn their attention to Kroenke.

But Kroenke and Wenger have enough experience on the ground to know that's not going to happen. The vocal minority sounding off online won't shift their attitudes. Not when there are 50K+ library goers forking out their cash every other week. Wenger's going nowhere unless the fans up their game. You can already see the PR running out of every drainage pipe. They are setting things up for this guy to stay and it may be a longer stay than people fear.

[Niall_Quinn]

All of this is a causal factor for the results, but ultimately the majority shareholder could use the club as a front for drug and people trafficking and the board could be a satan worshipping paedophile ring but the fans wouldn't care if the results were good.

People are fed up of the attitude at the club because we aren't competing in the way we were promised borne out by the results, it's 100% the results and everything else is an offshoot of that.

Perhaps. But the drug running paedos in charge would still need to instil the winning mentality or the results wouldn't arrive anyway. Of course I agree, give the fans a string of positive results and the temperature lowers. But Arsenal is a club that has been going around and around for a decade now. We've seen those results come in, cheered them, engaged in ridiculously optimistic talk of titles. Eventually people twig. At Arsenal it's not about the results, not in the way it is at normal clubs. Results for us are to uphold a minimum standard, not to strive for the maximum standard. It's the mentality. Que sera sera, whatever will do, will do.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well, I don't agree about the manager's, I don't think he's able to achieve more but I believe he wants to, I can't think of any reason why he wouldn't want to.
I was simply responding to the notion that he's under no pressure. He is, but the pressure he's under is from people whose interests expectations are different from the fans.
I wasn't saying it's a good thing.

But losers want lots of things. There are plenty of losers who want to be winners. Sure, they want it. But if they aren't prepared to take the actions necessary to achieve it then all they are are losers with pipe dreams. Not exactly the sort of character you want in charge of a competitive team of athletes.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Perhaps. But the drug running paedos in charge would still need to instil the winning mentality or the results wouldn't arrive anyway. Of course I agree, give the fans a string of positive results and the temperature lowers. But Arsenal is a club that has been going around and around for a decade now. We've seen those results come in, cheered them, engaged in ridiculously optimistic talk of titles. Eventually people twig. At Arsenal it's not about the results, not in the way it is at normal clubs. Results for us are to uphold a minimum standard, not to strive for the maximum standard. It's the mentality. Que sera sera, whatever will do, will do.

No which ever way you argue it, it's about the results. The results that have prevented us from properly challenging for major honours on a consistent basis

The mentality, the ownership, the manager are just the contributory factors for why the results are not coming. The only reason they are important is because they affect the results.

I repeat if the results were coming and we were challenging and winning nothing else would matter. You don't get fan protests if a club has won the treble for instance.

[fakeyank]

"The fans have turned", at our place means people posting slightly controversial message online. Actually turning would mean a relentless chorus of, "We want Wenger OUT!, throughout 90 minutes. We have the politest, most whipped fans in football. Some bloke with a tattoo going around saying, "Please Arsene, you've been great and all but, if it's not too much trouble, could you leave?", is viewed as hard core. We are a million miles away from turning, from what I can see. Most of us are still here pleading with a guy who already thinks he's doing the right thing, to do the right thing.

:gp:

Cant agree more. Majority of our fans need a right kick up the backside... Wake the F up! You are paying the highest tickets prices in world football to watch that shit. Really?! How are you ok with this week in week out season after season?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But losers want lots of things. There are plenty of losers who want to be winners. Sure, they want it. But if they aren't prepared to take the actions necessary to achieve it then all they are are losers with pipe dreams. Not exactly the sort of character you want in charge of a competitive team of athletes.

Even though it's irrelevant i think the argument that Letters is making is that he's not the kind of loser who is deliberately avoiding winning

[selassie]

Well, I don't agree about the manager's, I don't think he's able to achieve more but I believe he wants to, I can't think of any reason why he wouldn't want to.
I was simply responding to the notion that he's under no pressure. He is, but the pressure he's under is from people whose interests expectations are different from the fans.
I wasn't saying it's a good thing.

What kind of pressure is that then Letters? To basically not lose the club money...Stan just wants his investment to keep on giving him decent returns.

These are the kind of things Stan has said in the past...


“For me, being an individual owner, I have to have some sort of reality involved. “If you want to win championships then you would never get involved. “I think the best owners in sports are the guys that sort of watch both sides a bit.


Even Stan's statements lack conviction...sort of watch both sides a bit? What does that even mean?! :lol:

Without me totally going off track...I stand by my statement that Wenger is under little to no pressure in comparison to pretty much all of his rivals in World Football.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:gp:

Cant agree more. Majority of our fans need a right kick up the backside... Wake the F up! You are paying the highest tickets prices in world football to watch that shit. Really?! How are you ok with this week in week out season after season?

I protest by not giving the club any of my money, i don't feel i'm in a position to tell other people what they should be doing with theirs.

I would prefer it if there was a more continual noticeable presence, but there we are. I think fans are more likely to wait and see what happens and if he stays just won't come back.

However there is enough fan unrest for it to have got national media attention, and if Wenger cared nothing for fan reprisal he would have signed already.

[Letters]

You'll have to excuse Letters. His is a case of the Sixth Sense. He sees imaginary posters.


This is by far the worst day I've ever seen as an Arsenal fan. And the frightening thing is, I don't expect this to be the last time I say this, this season. I swear to God, if we don't bring in another centre back and centre midfielder, we will finish outside the top 6.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=662&page=4


People tell me to behave when I say we'll be in the relegation battle this year. Are you so sure we won't? The relegation battle can involve as many as ten team right to the wire. When you see what we saw today, can you name the ten teams we are superior to in this league? Are you relaying on zero injuries and zero suspensions when you make that assessment?

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=662&page=7



We have snookered ourselves this season and 4th place looks as far away as it's ever been.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=662&page=9


If we don't get at the very least 3 more players then we're going to stuck in mid table for the season. I know some have talked about relegation, but I don't think that's likely. What's most likely going to happen is that we'll hover around 8th-10th position throughout the season, perhaps making a late bid for a Europa League place.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=662&page=9

:coffee:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=662&page=4



http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=662&page=7




http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=662&page=9



http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=662&page=9

:coffee:

All taken from five and a half years ago when we lost 8-2 to United and failed to win any of our opening three games. To be fair at that time it wasn't that much of an exaggerated fear.

[Marc Overmars]

It's funny thinking back to probably our worst period under Wenger. We were shocking throughout most of 2011 and that culminated in the hammering United gave us.

How much better are we now?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's funny thinking back to probably our worst period under Wenger. We were shocking throughout most of 2011 and that culminated in the hammering United gave us.

How much better are we now?

well we haven't quite gone through a run of 2 wins in 14 league games like we did between March and August of 2011

Our last 14 games haven't exactly been inspiring but 8 wins instead

[Marc Overmars]

End result is the same though.

We could fail to win our first 19 games and still manage to find our way into the top 4.

[Özim]

Wenger should have gone a long time ago IMO, his inadequacies were there for all to see, had he done I'm sure we'd be in a far better place right now. Sadly he's had it too easy for too long, the board and owner will back him 100% and despite his poor performance still offer him a pay rise (how ridiculous is that give what's happening), he basically decides if he's doing a good job, if he's staying or not, he decides everything, he even tells the fans to shape up!

The fans aren't innocent either, I agree with NQ, too much undeserved support for too long, yes he deserved some grace for his early years, but not 10+ years of it! At any proper football club he would have been out on his ear many years ago, no sentimentality, just the chop like he deserved, sadly that was never going to happen with people at the club who are only interested in money, the sad thing is the fans still turned out week in week out to fill their pockets.

For years people used the morally superior we're a well run club argument, now however in the cold light of day it's clear we're a perfect example of what no football club should ever become, football is no longer the priority, it's all about how much they can get out an how little they can put in and the attitude towards the fans sums up how untouchable they think they are, they feel there's no comeback, they can say and do whatever they like with no repercussions.

And you know what, they're right they can, people will still keep turning up, doesn't matter how much you belittle them or patronise them, got to say I think Arsenal (or should I say Wenger, because most of them are more fans of him then the football club itself oddly) fans are unique in that sense, most other fans would have kicked up a storm, but at Arsenal all we see if pro Wenger fans kicking off at anti Wenger fans whilst the board and manager watch in amusement.

Many years ago people when Abrahmovic turned up people were quick to criticise saying Chelsea would be done for when he left and that he'd be gone when he's done with this new play thing, ironically he's still around now, more interested than ever in seeing Chelsea succeed, he clearly loves football (and Chelsea) and for him football comes first, when it's not working he's not scared to make the change and it's worked well for them. Meanwhile we're stuck with a guy who's been here for what seems like forever, who has outdated ideas, a stubborn streak never never before seen in football and really isn't that bothered about winning (yes some will claim otherwise but show me the solid evidence other than a few rants on the touchline) with an owner who only has on intention and it's not building a successful club, frankly I'd take Chelsea's model any day of the week based on the evidence of the last 10 years!

If we are indeed a business and no longer a football club, I'd love to see another business as big as us treat it's customers with as much contempt, my guess would be they wouldn't stay in business long, they're profits would certainly fall significantly at the very least.

If the club today is what we have Wenger to thank for....I'll pass!

[Globalgunner]

We stopped being a sporting franchise when Dein left and the old execs like Friar passed on. Wenger gladly filled the vacancy with his huge ego and averageness. Who wouldnt want to be his own boss?. This was when the malaise started, long before Kroenke bought in. Wenger in his own mind felt he could continue to compete with Chelsea and United, but when City joined the moneyed elite, the game got too tough and 4th place became the only game in town. Kroenke only established mediocrity as a benchmark. A minimum target to keep the punters happy and the cash rolling in. Even now they dont understand fans wanting more. Do you know how much it would cost to actually compete? they say,
No we dont and all we can see is that we are spending 50% more than Spurs to stay just 1 place ahead of them, and 80-90% of what the other 3 are doing. So the money factor really is meaningless. what is sincerely lacking here is merely sporting ambition epitomised in offering Wenger this new contract.

[redordead]

this is how fucking deluded the prick is,ive copied just a snippet of a interview on sky sports,in which he seems to be pushing for another four years at arsenal,but its this bit stuck out,he said. "These are quality players. Everything went against us [in Munich]. We were 1-1 at half-time and in the second half everything went against us.

"We responded at Sutton and we want to respond again. After that we have an opportunity to show Bayern we can cause them problems."
is it me or is he completly fucking bonkers

[Xhaka Can’t]

Yeah Kronke is probably the most hated owner in all of sports, and potentially one of the worst.

Avalanche fans don't like him or his recent moves.

Nuggets fans don't really like him.

He moved the Rams from St.Louis to L.a.

Arsenal fans hate that they are owned by an American who runs the team like a business and doesn't let them spend freely.

The poster on the Calgary Flames forum is a bit off on us, but Kroenke is being discussed on ice hockey forums as a result of the dire straits his team are in and a stupid player trade they just made.

When the piece of shit purchased the Avs they had recently won the Stanley Cup and were on their way that season to winning another one. They were a premier club, it was fucking impossible to get tickets to see them pretty much wherever they played and no chance for home matches.

Today they are the biggest joke in the NHL. And I'm not exaggerating. If you can be bothered, take a look at the league table. He has fucking destroyed that Club. But it doesn't matter because when he wrecks them so bad nobody turns up, he can find another city that will build an arena using public money and move the team there until he pisses off another market with the piece of shit product he produces everywhere he goes with every team he owns.

Wenger isn't the problem, he is the public face of the problem.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Kroenke only became the majority shareholder in 2011 so i don't think he can be held responsible for the litany of awful in the previous five years.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The litany of awful as you describe it coincided with the annual sale of our best players.

At that point Wenger was the right man for the time. No other manager would have gone through such a fire sale.

He aint the right manager now, but more importantly we have the wrong owner.

[Globalgunner]

The litany of awful as you describe it coincided with the annual sale of our best players.

At that point Wenger was the right man for the time. No other manager would have gone through such a fire sale.

He aint the right manager now, but more importantly we have the wrong owner.

The best players left because of the same reasons Sanchez and Ozil are likely to leave this summer. Nobody is winning anything worth shit with Wenger at the helm. He should have left in 2006. Its been downhill ever since.

[Niall_Quinn]

Here's what Wenger is getting his pay rise for:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/03/02/20/3DE4398A00000578-4276104-image-a-17_1488487720411.jpg

[Letters]

All taken from five and a half years ago when we lost 8-2 to United and failed to win any of our opening three games. To be fair at that time it wasn't that much of an exaggerated fear.

Whether it was justified isn't relevant, I was just saying I'd seen it on here and was told I was imagining it. I wasn't.
There were plenty of similar kneejerk over-reactions like that over the years.

[Özim]

Here's what Wenger is getting his pay rise for:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/03/02/20/3DE4398A00000578-4276104-image-a-17_1488487720411.jpg

Just bad luck really, the goals weren't in the right place on the day so when we hit the target the target had changed (not our fault), at half time we were in the games, in the 2nd half things just didn't go our way. :shrug:

Also I think it was raining those days.

[Power n Glory]

The litany of awful as you describe it coincided with the annual sale of our best players.

At that point Wenger was the right man for the time. No other manager would have gone through such a fire sale.

He aint the right manager now, but more importantly we have the wrong owner.

Which coincides with Wenger's view that a clubs should be financially responsible, turn a profit and be self-sustaining without outside investors. These principles were in place before Kroenke arrived. If it weren’t for Arsene Wenger’s views, Kroenke wouldn’t have stuck around. In fact, Dein initially brought him here to be an outside investor. Wenger being hailed as an untouchable, godlike figure by the fans and press, being able to keep us in the Top 4 whilst selling off our best players and turning a profit is what keeps a vulture like Stan circling. We’ve been led down the wrong path. It’s two sides of the same coin. Wenger was able to sell the fans this self-sustaining model malarkey and paint Chelsea and City as the bad guys to the point where delusional fans (myself included) were willing to champion a model that’s designed to squeeze as much as possible from the fans whilst keep as much back to pay themselves. Stan owns the church and Wenger is the preacher.

It’s worth reading the below. You’ll notice the similarities between Fisher and Wenger.

http://www.101sports.com/2016/12/12/rams-fire-jeff-fisher-doesnt-matter-stan-kroenke-still-owns-team/

Wenger is the problem and as a result of his philosophy, we’ve inherited an even bigger problem in Kroenke. Wenger’s obsession with making a profit instead of winning trophies has become the club culture. Just look at how he’s neglected the back staff. He blocked Henry from becoming a coach here, we’ve had plenty of former players that would have loved to be part of the coaching staff but he hasn’t embraced them. Jonker has now left the his position of Youth Academy Head Coach and taken Freddie with him because it sounds like he wasn’t being backed to change the culture.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/arsenal-news-andries-jonker-academy-manager-wolfsburg-a7603981.html

This is the legacy Wenger leaves behind. There is so much more he could have done to protect this club but he’s been more concerned with the financial siding and protecting his own position. Fuck him. Always remember how Wenger justified a season ticket price hike that equated to the same amount used to pay KSE £3m. That’s who he caters to. Fuck him.

[Özim]

You know people hail Arsene Wenger for what's he's achieved with this club and how he's changed us, however there's loads of Arsenal fans that can't stand what the club has become, so are we praising him for turning the club into something we don't like?

Ironically Abrahmovic was interested in buying us before he bought Chelsea, but was put off by the cost of the stadium, had Wenger and his cronies not come up with that money making idea things could have been so different, we might have had an owner who actually cared about what's happening on the pitch and cared about the club.

Yes the stadium has allowed us to make more money, but effectively it's making more moeny for Wenger and co and costing the fans in the process, it's been win win for the club.

[Bumble]

You know people hail Arsene Wenger for what's he's achieved with this club and how he's changed us, however there's loads of Arsenal fans that can't stand what the club has become, so are we praising him for turning the club into something we don't like?

Ironically Abrahmovic was interested in buying us before he bought Chelsea, but was put off by the cost of the stadium, had Wenger and his cronies not come up with that money making idea things could have been so different, we might have had an owner who actually cared about what's happening on the pitch and cared about the club.

Yes the stadium has allowed us to make more money, but effectively it's making more moeny for Wenger and co and costing the fans in the process, it's been win win for the club.
Abramovich I wouldn't say cares about the club. he cares about winning and his reputation but he also looked at Spurs I think. So its not like he was a Chelsea fan. He just wants to win. That's the difference. Kroenke knows that Arsenal will continue to make money without the need to win titles.

Also I think no one really imagined the TV money would extrapolate as much as it has done as both City and Chelsea make money I think.

[Marc Overmars]

Abramovich has become a football man through association and obviously cares about Chelsea after 14 years. He's there every game, accessible to all the players and ensures he does everything in his power to keep them competitive, however cut throat it might seem.

We have the worst the kind of owner - a complete leech with no interest in the sporting matters of the club.

[Niall_Quinn]

Which coincides with Wenger's view that a clubs should be financially responsible, turn a profit and be self-sustaining without outside investors. These principles were in place before Kroenke arrived. If it weren’t for Arsene Wenger’s views, Kroenke wouldn’t have stuck around. In fact, Dein initially brought him here to be an outside investor. Wenger being hailed as an untouchable, godlike figure by the fans and press, being able to keep us in the Top 4 whilst selling off our best players and turning a profit is what keeps a vulture like Stan circling. We’ve been led down the wrong path. It’s two sides of the same coin. Wenger was able to sell the fans this self-sustaining model malarkey and paint Chelsea and City as the bad guys to the point where delusional fans (myself included) were willing to champion a model that’s designed to squeeze as much as possible from the fans whilst keep as much back to pay themselves. Stan owns the church and Wenger is the preacher.

It’s worth reading the below. You’ll notice the similarities between Fisher and Wenger.

http://www.101sports.com/2016/12/12/rams-fire-jeff-fisher-doesnt-matter-stan-kroenke-still-owns-team/

Wenger is the problem and as a result of his philosophy, we’ve inherited an even bigger problem in Kroenke. Wenger’s obsession with making a profit instead of winning trophies has become the club culture. Just look at how he’s neglected the back staff. He blocked Henry from becoming a coach here, we’ve had plenty of former players that would have loved to be part of the coaching staff but he hasn’t embraced them. Jonker has now left the his position of Youth Academy Head Coach and taken Freddie with him because it sounds like he wasn’t being backed to change the culture.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/arsenal-news-andries-jonker-academy-manager-wolfsburg-a7603981.html

This is the legacy Wenger leaves behind. There is so much more he could have done to protect this club but he’s been more concerned with the financial siding and protecting his own position. Fuck him. Always remember how Wenger justified a season ticket price hike that equated to the same amount used to pay KSE £3m. That’s who he caters to. Fuck him.

:gp:

One constant throughout it all. Everything and everyone has changed, I think that's true, is there anyone at all left from the glory days? Only one man remains. Nothing that has happened has been coincidence.

[Power n Glory]

You know people hail Arsene Wenger for what's he's achieved with this club and how he's changed us, however there's loads of Arsenal fans that can't stand what the club has become, so are we praising him for turning the club into something we don't like?

Ironically Abrahmovic was interested in buying us before he bought Chelsea, but was put off by the cost of the stadium, had Wenger and his cronies not come up with that money making idea things could have been so different, we might have had an owner who actually cared about what's happening on the pitch and cared about the club.

Yes the stadium has allowed us to make more money, but effectively it's making more moeny for Wenger and co and costing the fans in the process, it's been win win for the club.

Exactly. It’s hard to overlook. People say we have Wenger to thank for propelling us to this level where we’re contenders, but if you hate how the clubs being run, how can you ignore the man smack dab in the middle?

How is he leaving a great legacy if we now hate what we’ve become? The football memories have been great and that can’t be taken away from or the fans but what else is he leaving behind? For those worried about how far we may fall once Wenger has gone and we’re left with Stan and Ivan, you have to question how we’ve come to this in the first place. Why are we so vulnerable after he leaves? Where is his succession plan? The fact he’s held the club to ransom and has allowed himself to run down to the final months of his contract without taking on a protégé speaks volumes. When he goes, the footballing knowledge goes with him because we’re left with the bean counters. Surely he knows that so why hasn’t he pushed for a restructure?

[mastermind84]

I'm all for a good Wenger bash but if we are getting the point that we shouldn't have built the Emirates because it lead to Abrohmavich, a guy our fans have blasted for many years and deride Chelsea fans about, to not buy this club, then the conversation has veered to mental and irredeemable.


Thats not a defense of Kroenke. He is one of the worst owners in american sports. Saying that, the prior ownership had no interest in footballing matters either until Wenger arrived and did their work for them.

[Globalgunner]

I'm all for a good Wenger bash but if we are getting the point that we shouldn't have built the Emirates because it lead to Abrohmavich, a guy our fans have blasted for many years and deride Chelsea fans about, to not buy this club, then the conversation has veered to mental and irredeemable.


Thats not a defense of Kroenke. He is one of the worst owners in american sports. Saying that, the prior ownership had no interest in footballing matters either until Wenger arrived and did their work for them.

Not absolutely true. We won trophies before Wenger came. Leagues and Cups.It is well known that Friar and a few other spent their own money on the club back then and Dein was Mr Arsenal until internal feuding led to his departure. Wengers haul betters that of Graham by maybe 3 or 4 cups and 1 league and he has been here thrice as long. The football may not have been pretty, but whose game was beautiful back then?. United were the only game in town before Wenger came and set in motion the French revolution. Arguably this would have happened without him anyway because French football was about to take off in a major way between 97-2000. Everyone wanted French players around then. The only thing is that Wenger knew the great players before they became great. We are eternally thankful to him for that. But not to the point of a 15 year active retirement since 2005. Enough of that 10m/yr pension for not knowing what the fuck he is doing.

[mastermind84]

Not absolutely true. We won trophies before Wenger came. Leagues and Cups.It is well known that Friar and a few other spent their own money on the club back then and Dein was Mr Arsenal until internal feuding led to his departure. Wengers haul betters that of Graham by maybe 3 or 4 cups and 1 league and he has been here thrice as long. The football may not have been pretty, but whose game was beautiful back then?. United were the only game in town before Wenger came and set in motion the French revolution. Arguably this would have happened without him anyway because French football was about to take off in a major way between 97-2000. Everyone wanted French players around then. The only thing is that Wenger knew the great players before they became great. We are eternally thankful to him for that. But not to the point of a 15 year active retirement since 2005. Enough of that 10m/yr pension for not knowing what the fuck he is doing.

You missed my point.

We won before Wenger, but that was not my point. My point is the prior owners (Danny Fiszman and them) had no real interest in football affairs. They hired strong managers and let them do what they wanted. It lead to Wenger now, and before htat it was Graham and Graham taking bungs under their noses.

The only person who showed interest was David Dein, and he brought the club Kroenke and sold his shares to Usmanov for a good payout.

Kroenke is a terrible owner, but I am not going to forget the prior owners.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You missed my point.

We won before Wenger, but that was not my point. My point is the prior owners (Danny Fiszman and them) had no real interest in football affairs. They hired strong managers and let them do what they wanted. It lead to Wenger now, and before htat it was Graham and Graham taking bungs under their noses.

The only person who showed interest was David Dein, and he brought the club Kroenke and sold his shares to Usmanov for a good payout.

Kroenke is a terrible owner, but I am not going to forget the prior owners.

Fiszman actually used his own money for signings like Petit and Overmars

[Globalgunner]

Fiszman actually used his own money for signings like Petit and Overmars

Thank you...and who do you suppose brought Bergkamp here before even them. The club didnt suddenly exist when Wenger came. We were bubbling along, not troubling anyone except ourselves and the Spuds, but we were hardly in limbo. It took Jack Walkers Millions to stop the league being an annual Utd cakewalk. Wenger benefited the most by Dein not being there. Even PHW and co sat back and smoked cigars after Dein left and Wenger stepped into the breech. All self serving as we can subsequently see. He spent the next 10 years feathering his nest and making himself unsackeable in his own eyes. It has to stop

[mastermind84]

Fiszman actually used his own money for signings like Petit and Overmars

great.

He owned Arsenal for another 12 years and did not use any money since that point.



The club didnt suddenly exist when Wenger came.
who said that?



We were bubbling along, not troubling anyone except ourselves and the Spuds,
thank you for saying what I was getting at in my prior posts.

[Power n Glory]

What point are you trying to make exactly?

[mastermind84]

THat a) the stadium was needed b) Wenger did the work for the board because they were not that interested in football c) its beyond hypocritical to start pining for Abrohmavich to be our owner.

[Globalgunner]

THat a) the stadium was needed b) Wenger did the work for the board because they were not that interested in football c) its beyond hypocritical to start pining for Abrohmavich to be our owner.

Quote
Thats not a defense of Kroenke. He is one of the worst owners in american sports. Saying that, the prior ownership had no interest in footballing matters either until Wenger arrived and did their work for them.

Again. It has been proven that that is not true. There were plenty of football men on the board before Wenger arrived. Only when Dein left did Wenger become his own boss.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Quote
Thats not a defense of Kroenke. He is one of the worst owners in american sports. Saying that, the prior ownership had no interest in footballing matters either until Wenger arrived and did their work for them.

Again. It has been proven that that is not true. There were plenty of football men on the board before Wenger arrived. Only when Dein left did Wenger become his own boss.

Indeed, it reached the nadir when Danny Fiszman died leaving his shares to Kroenke beforehand. I think they liked Kroenke because they knew he wasn't going to interfere with the self sustainability model. However I don't think any of the previous board had considered football secondary to money the way this current lot do.

[Power n Glory]

THat a) the stadium was needed b) Wenger did the work for the board because they were not that interested in football c) its beyond hypocritical to start pining for Abrohmavich to be our owner.

I think you've missed a good chunk of the conversation and the points being made.
A)
We needed the stadium but have we lost our soul in the process? Plenty of people put a huge part of the blame on Kroenke as owner and worry we may end up like his other sporting ventures. I see their point and it's a worry. But I think what Kroenke does come end of the season will tell us more about him, especially when he has to pick Wenger's successor.
B)
Yes, the way the club is run and having board members that were hands off predates Kroenke. To an extent. Besides Dein and that time where Fiszman invested his own money to give the players a pay rise and buy some players, Wenger was given space and freedom to implement his ideas and change the structure of the club. Heck, he designed parts of the stadium like the changing room and was heavily campaigned for us to build a bigger stadium.
C)
Hypocritical? Again, I think you're missing the point. Wenger has done a great job on convincing Arsenal fans that we should foot the bill for Emirates, his wages and the players, whilst our two billionaire owners invest nothing at all. In fact, Kroenke has taken money out of the club and paid himself a dividend but in a sneaky way with that KSE consultancy fee. Hypocritical? No, I think people are starting to wake up after being lead like sheep for years by Wenger with his 'financial doping' campaign. I'm not pining for an Abramovich, but I'm certainly not going to champion a model that has us fans being milked to fill the pockets of our millionaire, billionaire staff and shareholders.

[mastermind84]

Quote
Thats not a defense of Kroenke. He is one of the worst owners in american sports. Saying that, the prior ownership had no interest in footballing matters either until Wenger arrived and did their work for them.

Again. It has been proven that that is not true. There were plenty of football men on the board before Wenger arrived. Only when Dein left did Wenger become his own boss.

Dein was the only football guy on the board.

The club had no greater ambition but to be better than SPurs until Wenger arrived.


Indeed, it reached the nadir when Danny Fiszman died leaving his shares to Kroenke beforehand. I think they liked Kroenke because they knew he wasn't going to interfere with the self sustainability model. However I don't think any of the previous board had considered football secondary to money the way this current lot do.
they liked Kroenke because he wasnt Usmanov.

Peter Hill-Wood used to disrespect Kroenke before Usmanov arrived. Kroenke is the reason why Dein was let go.


I think you've missed a good chunk of the conversation and the points being made.
A)
We needed the stadium but have we lost our soul in the process? Plenty of people put a huge part of the blame on Kroenke as owner and worry we may end up like his other sporting ventures. I see their point and it's a worry. But I think what Kroenke does come end of the season will tell us more about him, especially when he has to pick Wenger's successor.
B)
Yes, the way the club is run and having board members that were hands off predates Kroenke. To an extent. Besides Dein and that time where Fiszman invested his own money to give the players a pay rise and buy some players, Wenger was given space and freedom to implement his ideas and change the structure of the club. Heck, he designed parts of the stadium like the changing room and was heavily campaigned for us to build a bigger stadium.
C)
Hypocritical? Again, I think you're missing the point. Wenger has done a great job on convincing Arsenal fans that we should foot the bill for Emirates, his wages and the players, whilst our two billionaire owners invest nothing at all. In fact, Kroenke has taken money out of the club and paid himself a dividend but in a sneaky way with that KSE consultancy fee. Hypocritical? No, I think people are starting to wake up after being lead like sheep for years by Wenger with his 'financial doping' campaign. I'm not pining for an Abramovich, but I'm certainly not going to champion a model that has us fans being milked to fill the pockets of our millionaire, billionaire staff and shareholders.

A) How can you blame Kroenke for a stadium that was built before he even knew Arsenal Football Club existed?

B) Ashley Cole, one of the greatest left backs in football history an Arsenal boy and a guy who was in his prime and seen as a future captain, was sold because he wanted $5,000 more a weak. I always thought it was interesting that Cole never really criticized Wenger in any of his post Arsenal drama, but instead at Dein and others. And why wouldnt the footballing staff have input on the footballing aspects of the stadium? THat don't make sense.

C) LOL. This section is a problem with current western society. You all think the billionaires, the people with power of purse, actually have no power and that the employees are controlling public discourse. Wenger works for those billionaires. If he was doing work against the billionaires will, he would be fired. WHat is hypocritical is a fan wanting Abrohmavich to be owner of the club after bashing him and Chelsea for years.

[Power n Glory]

:doh: Mastermind, read! You've blundered in not understanding a single point being made. Each one of your points makes zero sense, especially C. It doesn't relate at all to anyone's argument.

[The Verminator]

I really don't see how any Arsenal fan could want him to stay anymore. Even if you're his biggest supporter, you have to see it's best for him to go too...

[Marc Overmars]

2 more years!

[Letters]

I really don't see how any Arsenal fan could want him to stay anymore. Even if you're his biggest supporter, you have to see it's best for him to go too...

I really hope he goes at the end of this season. It would be mental to offer him a new contract although it sounds like they already have.
I hope it's a virtually empty stadium against Bayern, it's the only language these people* understand
* - I mean the board.

[The Verminator]

I really hope he goes at the end of this season. It would be mental to offer him a new contract although it sounds like they already have.
I hope it's a virtually empty stadium against Bayern, it's the only language these people* understand
* - I mean the board.

Sadly I doubt they would care about that either just so long as the tickets are sold. :(

[LDG]

I really hope he goes at the end of this season. It would be mental to offer him a new contract although it sounds like they already have.
I hope it's a virtually empty stadium against Bayern, it's the only language these people* understand
* - I mean the board.

Why not judge him in May?

Your kneejerk reactions are just what we don't need right now.

[Letters]

Sadly I doubt they would care about that either just so long as the tickets are sold. :(

Well, that's true. Season ticket renewal time must be fast approaching though, that's people's chance to vote with their wallets.

[Power n Glory]

Why not judge him in May?

Your kneejerk reactions are just what we don't need right now.

:gp:

[Xhaka Can’t]

If we sack him now, we might just pip Leicester for Woy.

[GP]

If we sack him now, we might just pip Leicester for Woy.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEjHE8cahZQc9ZXa0/giphy.gif

[Bumble]

Wenger is going to leave us in our worst position since he joined. Defensively we are suspect still, our two biggest players are refusing to sign new contracts and one if not both will leave in the summer. And yet Wenger will walk away from this mess blaming the fans and then as we struggle he will be revered by some and the media that he was hounded out by the fans and see what happens when you get what you wish for.

Noone thinks Wenger can fix this which is a shame because he should be made to sort out the mess he will leave behind (relative mess obviously - not a Leeds/Portsmouth mess)

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger is going to leave us in our worst position since he joined. Defensively we are suspect still, our two biggest players are refusing to sign new contracts and one if not both will leave in the summer.

What year is it?

[Niall_Quinn]

What year is it?

It's groundhog year.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger is going to leave us in our worst position since he joined. Defensively we are suspect still, our two biggest players are refusing to sign new contracts and one if not both will leave in the summer. And yet Wenger will walk away from this mess blaming the fans and then as we struggle he will be revered by some and the media that he was hounded out by the fans and see what happens when you get what you wish for.

Noone thinks Wenger can fix this which is a shame because he should be made to sort out the mess he will leave behind (relative mess obviously - not a Leeds/Portsmouth mess)

Half our fans will be blaming the other half. Don't forget about the deep rift he'll be leaving behind on top of everything else. If he leaves. I don't think he will.

[Marc Overmars]

Half our fans will be blaming the other half. Don't forget about the deep rift he'll be leaving behind on top of everything else. If he leaves. I don't think he will.

It's going to take many years for that rift to be healed. You just watch how those blinded by the Wenger myth are quick to turn on the next manager the moment things get bumpy.

[Letters]

Is there a deep rift? I don't think that many fans want him to stay now.

[Bumble]

Is there a deep rift? I don't think that many fans want him to stay now.
I am sure there are, some who think he should be given a chance to turn things around.

[Niall_Quinn]

I am sure there are, some who think he should be given a chance to turn things around.

Wenger has already turned things around, 360 degrees every season. Around and around we go.

[selassie]

Is there a deep rift? I don't think that many fans want him to stay now.

I get the impression more want him gone now than ever before but it's still not clear cut. Wenger appears to mainly have the support of the fan base at the Emirates, I don't know whether this is more out of respect than anything else.

I personally feel our match going fans at the Emirates are too polite, feelings towards our performances and lack of progress should be made clear to Wenger on a weekly basis.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Listening to the Arseblog Arsecast

One of the questions written in "Was there one game which caused you to lose your faith in Wenger's ability to take the club forward?"

It has been a gradual erosion, but the game that made my mind up was the 8-2 at Old Trafford 28th August 2011

I was teetering after the carling cup final against Birmingham, but that pushed me over the edge.

[Marc Overmars]

Listening to the Arseblog Arsecast

One of the questions written in "Was there one game which caused you to lose your faith in Wenger's ability to take the club forward?"

It has been a gradual erosion, but the game that made my mind up was the 8-2 at Old Trafford 28th August 2011

I was teetering after the carling cup final against Birmingham, but that pushed me over the edge.

I think that period was when Wenger lost of a lot of goodwill.

We were atrocious after the League Cup final defeat, completely bombed. Then we spent all summer at the mercy of Fabregas and Nasri and by the time the season started, we could barely patch a team together thanks to the lack of transfer activity. That all culminated in the 8-2 defeat and prompted the last minute shopping spree.

The phrase "you don't know what you're doing" has never been more apt.

[Niall_Quinn]

Kroenke really is the archetypal scumbag. Here's how he's enjoying one of his ranches that his stake in Arsenal has helped underwrite. Not one for tradition, is he?
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2016/08/11/la-rams-owner-stan-kroenke-tells-longtime-waggoner-ranch-residents-get-property

[mastermind84]

Listening to the Arseblog Arsecast

One of the questions written in "Was there one game which caused you to lose your faith in Wenger's ability to take the club forward?"

It has been a gradual erosion, but the game that made my mind up was the 8-2 at Old Trafford 28th August 2011

I was teetering after the carling cup final against Birmingham, but that pushed me over the edge.

that season, and the season after were probably Wenger's greatest managerial performances post the stadium move.

For me though, it was 5-1 at Anfield and 6-0 at Chelsea. I lost a lot of faith in him after those two matches. THey went on to win the FA Cup that season, but no big side should be losing like that in a season. To have it happen twice over the span of a month was incredible, especially since we went into Anfield leading the premier league that day.

[AFC Leveller]

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17191225_751186418371725_2320025263252745260_n.png ?oh=03400b11e97fbf3ccacd76d2870250ae&oe=592E7564

[Özim]

Hopefully about 2 people turn up, the guy is odd, it's clearly not working with Wenger in charge and yet he's adamant he should stay, for what though to go out of the CL in the last 16 again and qualify for the CL and rinse and repeat.

Does he enjoy being us being humbled by every top side when it matters and does he think the football we play is good to watch? Does he enjoy every summer when we do nothing and then scramble around for anyone we can get?

Very strange, the Wenger support is almost like a bit of a cult.

[Marc Overmars]

https://rgsoas.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/wenger_leader.jpg

[GP]

I'm going on a march cos I want Britain to be back British.

[Power n Glory]

Let's hope he hands out the Kool-Aid when his dear leader departs.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Hopefully about 2 people turn up, the guy is odd, it's clearly not working with Wenger in charge and yet he's adamant he should stay, for what though to go out of the CL in the last 16 again and qualify for the CL and rinse and repeat.

Does he enjoy being us being humbled by every top side when it matters and does he think the football we play is good to watch? Does he enjoy every summer when we do nothing and then scramble around for anyone we can get?

Very strange, the Wenger support is almost like a bit of a cult.


We have been fed the thin gruel of be careful what you wish for for years, we have to be frightened of dispensing with a man of 67 who is too old and too stubborn to change his ways. Some people have enjoyed that diet

[Letters]

Hopefully about 2 people turn up.
See you there! :cool:

Na-na-na-na, Na-na-na-na. Na-na-na-na, Na-na-na-na.
Wenger.
Wenger.

[Letters]

Very strange, the Wenger support is almost like a bit of a cult.
You're a bit of a cult.

#typo.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I would add to this, that my understanding is that there will be no such March and Ginger Chris thinks as well as being smart and analytical he's brilliant at satire, he's mocking the anti wenger marches by suggesting a counter measure.

[Letters]

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/776103/Arsene-Wenger-Arsenal-players-leaving-dressing-room-transfer-news-gossip

:popcorn:

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/776103/Arsene-Wenger-Arsenal-players-leaving-dressing-room-transfer-news-gossip

:popcorn:


It is claimed Wenger has announced his decision to leave Arsenal to his players but not the club.

Extremely unlikely.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Extremely unlikely.

I'm glad the Express obviously holds it's readers in high esteem

"Listen, i'm going in the summer, but i've not let Stan or Ivan know....and i definitely don't want you saying anything to the press about it!"

I could just about buy it the other way round, that the club knows he's going but he hasn't told the players because the players knowing he is going would have a detrimental affect on their performances :whistle:

[Globalgunner]

Is Arsene into mind games?. I very much doubt it. The gambit would be to tell the players he is leaving, but not the club. Get the players raring up to give him a grand finale. We end up 2nd and Arsene turns round and says. The club have persuaded me to stay. With a twinkle in his eye

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Is Arsene into mind games?. I very much doubt it. The gambit would be to tell the players he is leaving, but not the club. Get the players raring up to give him a grand finale. We end up 2nd and Arsene turns round and says. The club have persuaded me to stay. With a twinkle in his eye

In what world are we now going to finish above city, spurs and liverpool or even United?

[Niall_Quinn]

Just about as polite as possible.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcC25r2Xk90

For me, fuck off Wenger. Please.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

:lol: Chortle!!!

[Letters]

http://newsthump.com/2017/03/09/pissing-off-piers-morgan-is-my-main-motivation-for-not-quitting-confirms-arsene-wenger/

:lol:

Wenger In!

[Niall_Quinn]

Speaking ahead of the Gunners' FA Cup quarter-final with Lincoln City on Saturday, Wenger said: 'I work hard for 20 years to make fans happy. When you lose, I understand they are not.

'I don't want to judge that and will give my commitment to my work.'

Asked whether supporter opinion will be one of the main factors when he makes his decision over his future, Wenger said: 'It will influence. But it won't be the most important factor.'

Wenger said he has yet to make a decision on whether he'll be in the job next season. 'My decision is to focus on the next game and to make sure we respond. I don't focus on my future. Football games are important.'

Wenger then insisted that reports he has already told his players he is leaving this summer are false, while also saying that reports of arguments within the camp have been exaggerated. 'A lot has been said. We have a good, united and determined group.

'When you go through disappointing results, you have disagreements. We can show how united we are. On that front, I don't worry.'

Wenger doesn't feel that consistent failure will tarnish his legacy. 'I don't work for my image, I work for this club. After, how I will be judged is not my problem.

'I have shown since I have been here that I love this club and I am loyal to this club. I have made the best decisions for this club and I will continue to do that.'

It's almost as if we haven't just been spanked 10-2 in the CL. Next game, next game. Forget, forget. Everything must remain the same.

This doesn't sound like a guy who is planning on going anywhere any time soon.

[Marc Overmars]

The fans opinion won't be the most important factor. :lol:

At every other club it is, but not Arsenal. No manager survives amongst this much discontent, except for him.

[Letters]

Apart from "Bye!" what is he supposed to say? Standard responses to standard questions.

[Niall_Quinn]

Apart from "Bye!" what is he supposed to say? Standard responses to standard questions.

How about, "I made the WRONG decisions this season and it has cost us. Again. I'm the manager, I am responsible."

Can you even imagine Wenger saying something like that? Instead, he has made 20,000 substitutions, how many have you made? Or, how many cups did you win before he arrived? Or, the fans need to change.

Yes, it is the standard responses he's rolling out. What makes him think he can get away with that at this painfully late stage in the game? Kroenke and Gazidis I suppose. He has those two where he wants them, that'll be what he means when he says there are more important considerations than the fans.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

How about, "I made the WRONG decisions this season and it has cost us. Again. I'm the manager, I am responsible."

Can you even imagine Wenger saying something like that? Instead, he has made 20,000 substitutions, how many have you made? Or, how many cups did you win before he arrived? Or, the fans need to change.

Yes, it is the standard responses he's rolling out. What makes him think he can get away with that at this painfully late stage in the game? Kroenke and Gazidis I suppose. He has those two where he wants them, that'll be what he means when he says there are more important considerations than the fans.

I wouldn't expect anyone to admit that unless it was a preface to a resignation.

And that's what annoys people about his stock responses because there is no resignation forthcoming

[Özim]

It's almost as if we haven't just been spanked 10-2 in the CL. Next game, next game. Forget, forget. Everything must remain the same.

This doesn't sound like a guy who is planning on going anywhere any time soon.

I reckon he was a goldfish in a previous life.

[Özim]

Apart from "Bye!" what is he supposed to say? Standard responses to standard questions.

That all chestnut again, you always seem to have some sort of excuse for the guy, there are literally hundreds of things he could say that would be a better response, a bit of honesty about the situatio wouldn't go amiss and might endear him a bit more to people.

[Özim]

How about, "I made the WRONG decisions this season and it has cost us. Again. I'm the manager, I am responsible."

Can you even imagine Wenger saying something like that? Instead, he has made 20,000 substitutions, how many have you made? Or, how many cups did you win before he arrived? Or, the fans need to change.

Yes, it is the standard responses he's rolling out. What makes him think he can get away with that at this painfully late stage in the game? Kroenke and Gazidis I suppose. He has those two where he wants them, that'll be what he means when he says there are more important considerations than the fans.

Precisely, all we hear (and have done for 10 years) is what is he suppose to say, other managers do the same (they don't I've seen plenty of top managers come out and accept responsibility and say when things haven't been good enough).

Part of the reason he's lasted so long is that people have been ready to make all kinds of excuses for him rather than just accepting it wasn't good enough.

[Marc Overmars]

He needs to make a decision, even if he signs the deal then fine, we'll have some closure for the time being. I'll personally check myself out of anything to do with the club, as will others, but at least for the team they won't be stuck in limbo.

[Marc Overmars]

Chips has spoken.


Arsenal chairman Sir Chips Keswick says:

“We are fully aware of the attention currently focused on the club and understand the debate. We respect that fans are entitled to their different individual opinions but we will always run this great football club with its best long-term interests at heart.

"Arsène has a contract until the end of the season. Any decisions will be made by us mutually and communicated at the right time in the right way.”

Read more at http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20170309/comment-from-Arsenal-chairman#2HM5epjk2oy52FJL.99


http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20170309/comment-from-Arsenal-chairman

At least coming out with a statement shows they're aware of the ill feeling.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That all chestnut again, you always seem to have some sort of excuse for the guy, there are literally hundreds of things he could say that would be a better response, a bit of honesty about the situatio wouldn't go amiss and might endear him a bit more to people.

If a person admits to being a loser that's pretty much it for them. We know also that Journalists ask stupid questions and then they are answered with short, arrogant answers.

Do I think Wenger is wrong for blaming the fans the way he has done in the past? Yes i think that's contemptible. But let's be fair you seem to be wanting him to acknowledge failure as a preface to him going, that's not unreasonable but it's unrealistic because he isn't going to announce he will resign at the moment...i wish he would but he won't.

Journalists don't ask proper questions they ask questions to try and bait "ah gotcha" responses, I know myself that Wenger is failing as a manager and his failure this season seems to be even more apparent, it doesn't require him to acknowledge it to make it any more real.

[Özim]

Chips has spoken.



http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20170309/comment-from-Arsenal-chairman

At least coming out with a statement shows they're aware of the ill feeling.

Yeah but that statement kinda just says yes we know what the fans are saying but we're going to make the decision, seems to me it's as if they're saying fans don't have a clue about what's good for the long term?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Maybe, it's more saying you might think we are a bunch of money grabbing vampires, and although we are a bunch of money grabbing vampires that's not our agreed PR position.

[Özim]

If a person admits to being a loser that's pretty much it for them. We know also that Journalists ask stupid questions and then they are answered with short, arrogant answers.

Do I think Wenger is wrong for blaming the fans the way he has done in the past? Yes i think that's contemptible. But let's be fair you seem to be wanting him to acknowledge failure as a preface to him going, that's not unreasonable but it's unrealistic because he isn't going to announce he will resign at the moment...i wish he would but he won't.

Journalists don't ask proper questions they ask questions to try and bait "ah gotcha" responses, I know myself that Wenger is failing as a manager and his failure this season seems to be even more apparent, it doesn't require him to acknowledge it to make it any more real.

That's not really what I want at all, I want him to accept responsibility and criticise the team when it's appropriate like most of the managers out there (I've heard them do it many times). His method is to pretend it's all OK but that it's something else causing the issues, I have no time for someone who washes their hands of the problems they have caused to be honest.

I disagree, he does need to acknowledge his errors, it would certainly endear him much more to me and to the fans and might buy him more leeway IMO, his arrogance does the opposite, he basically see's himself as above everyone else.

Criticism and ackowledging your errors is human, all humans make mistakes but to blame everyone else and wash your hands of them is arrogant.

[Özim]

Maybe, it's more saying you might think we are a bunch of money grabbing vampires, and although we are a bunch of money grabbing vampires that's not our agreed PR position.

Maybe, I actually think this club has no real understanding or connection with the fans, most of them aren't even football fans on the board, they come from wealthy backgrounds and really have no emotional attachment to what happens on the pitch, they care about what comes into the bank. I think this has been the problem for a while, even PHW use to come out with some outrageous stuff belittling the fans.

I know other clubs owners/boards come are wealthy too, but at least some of them are interested in football, our lot don't really seem to care and it shows because if they did there would surely be repercussions for the kinda displays we've put out in the last few years.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We are talking about high profile positions, if a football manager or a politician admits to serious errors than the next question he/she gets is "are you going to resign and if not why not"

To admit to being fallible is not a tenable position for anyone looking to staying in the job it just isn't

In terms of press conferences a manager in this day and age does have to present himself as being above everyone else, and the day he doesn't is the day he goes.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Maybe, I actually think this club has no real understanding or connection with the fans, most of them aren't even football fans on the board, they come from wealthy backgrounds and really have no emotional attachment to what happens on the pitch, they care about what comes into the bank. I think this has been the problem for a while, even PHW use to come out with some outrageous stuff belittling the fans.

I know other clubs owners/boards come are wealthy too, but at least some of them are interested in football, our lot don't really seem to care and it shows because if they did there would surely be repercussions for the kinda displays we've put out in the last few years.

Arsenal Football Club as clubs tend to do has a press office, this statement would have been passed through the press office....this is an official statement not Chips Keswick having a microphone pointed at him as he's getting out of his chauffeur driven Bentley.

The fact that any statement has been made at all is an acknowledgement that there is fans unrest, and it's saying "well despite what you think we do care about this club as much as you do" it's a lie of course but it's a properly manafactured one.

[Özim]

We are talking about high profile positions, if a football manager or a politician admits to serious errors than the next question he/she gets is "are you going to resign and if not why not"

To admit to being fallible is not a tenable position for anyone looking to staying in the job it just isn't

In terms of press conferences a manager in this day and age does have to present himself as being above everyone else, and the day he doesn't is the day he goes.

It's not just today we're talking about it's everytime we lose, everytime we get thrashed, there's never any acknowledgment that we've done anything wrong, like I said other managers acknowledge players underperforming, poor team performances and errors sometimes.

Wenger is quite the opposite, not only does he not acknowledge any mistakes or his players being to blame, when something fails he's carries on with it as if he wants to prove people wrong, that's the reason 10 years down the line we still have the same problems, no acknowledgment anything is wrong.

[Özim]

Arsenal Football Club as clubs tend to do has a press office, this statement would have been passed through the press office....this is an official statement not Chips Keswick having a microphone pointed at him as he's getting out of his chauffeur driven Bentley.

The fact that any statement has been made at all is an acknowledgement that there is fans unrest, and it's saying "well despite what you think we do care about this club as much as you do" it's a lie of course but it's a properly manafactured one.

Yes you're right, the problem is that statement comes across as a bit patronising, basically "we've heard the fans, but they don't have a clue about the long term health of the club, so we're going to decide because we do".

Personally I think a softer stance gievn the situation, acknowledging the concern of the fans and acknowledging the fans are a very important part of Arsenal would have been far better. Story of Arseal these days though, everything can be done better than it is.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's not just today we're talking about it's everytime we lose, everytime we get thrashed, there's never any acknowledgment that we've done anything wrong, like I said other managers acknowledge players underperforming, poor team performances and errors sometimes.

Wenger is quite the opposite, not only does he not acknowledge any mistakes or his players being to blame, when something fails he's carries on with it as if he wants to prove people wrong, that's the reason 10 years down the line we still have the same problems, no acknowledgment anything is wrong.

"we lacked a little bit sharpness"

"we played without belief"

"we played little bit with the handbrake on"

No it's not the acknowledgement of what a total disaster it is, but that realistically isn't going to happen

[selassie]

It's not just today we're talking about it's everytime we lose, everytime we get thrashed, there's never any acknowledgment that we've done anything wrong, like I said other managers acknowledge players underperforming, poor team performances and errors sometimes.

Wenger is quite the opposite, not only does he not acknowledge any mistakes or his players being to blame, when something fails he's carries on with it as if he wants to prove people wrong, that's the reason 10 years down the line we still have the same problems, no acknowledgment anything is wrong.

Agreed.

In fact I'll go one step further, if you look at Wenger's comments on Arsenal.com after the Bayern defeat he is flat out speaking as if nothing is wrong. He basically blamed the ref for the defeat the other night and said we competed with Bayern for 45 minutes. Is this what it has come to? We should be grateful for competing with them for a quarter of the tie? What about the other three quarters of the tie where they ripped us to shreads? Are we supposed to just forget that and move on AGAIN....?

I don't want Wenger to apologise after every defeat but i do want him to show some humility and be honest with himself and the fans, we are the laughing stock in football right now, we have been humiliated over the past few weeks yet Wenger is talking as if it's business usual...nothing wrong here, just an overreaction!

There is plenty WRONG and it's been WRONG for a while now!!!

[Ernesto]

I don't really take much into what Wenger says post-match. To be honest, I haven't done for a while. The last time I waited for his statement was after we lost at Old Trafford after we'd lost our 49-game unbeaten run there.

Since then, it's all been pretty generic stuff. And let's be fair, who can blame him? If you're a manager, in any walk of life, whatever you say, you're gonna be held accountable for it. Yes, even Wenger, even with the supreme level of comfort he has. If he says his players were shit, the board will ask him why he said that. If he complains that he doesn't have the resources to sign the players, again he'll be called up for it. It's all a smokescreen. And he deflects attention well. Where English managers will fall into journalist traps, this wily old fox, with English not even being his first language, won't.

The one aspect I don't like is his patronising demeanour towards fans. I began losing love for him when he couldn't answer a simple question about adebayor not being able to mark at the far post leading to Man united's goal in the CL a few years back. He got annoyed. That's where the "us and them" attitude began. Today, he acknowledged that the fans will play a part in dictating whether he stays or goes. A sad moment, but I don't think he's paying lip service to what the Wenger Out fans want, either

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Wenger out fans are most likely the majority

The vociferous ones at games are the ones who have had to dirty their hands and put up with abuse in order to highlight discontent

[Bumble]

i think its quite a good ploy for Wenger say fans reaction will have an effect on his decision. I think he thinks he still has plenty of support in the stands and as long as win games at home... people will show support and that will be vindication for him. It just embarrassing that the manager decides whether he stays or goes and not performances, the board, the owner.

[Letters]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/arsenal-fan-respectfully-asks-wenger-to-fk-off-20170309123714

:lol:

[Xhaka Can’t]

:lol:

[Coney]

http://newsthump.com/2017/03/09/pissing-off-piers-morgan-is-my-main-motivation-for-not-quitting-confirms-arsene-wenger/

[selassie]

http://newsthump.com/2017/03/09/pissing-off-piers-morgan-is-my-main-motivation-for-not-quitting-confirms-arsene-wenger/

:lol:

[Penguin]

Wenger:


"I feel all right, I feel very strong, very motivated, ready to give my best," he said, when asked how he felt compared to Enrique, who had said he will be tired by the end of his tenure at Barcelona.

"It just sums it up that two weeks ago he (Enrique) was an idiot and everyone said 'You have to leave', so he said, 'Okay, I go'.

"Today he is a hero. That sums up the job. In fact I made an equation because I am a mathematical fan that I will give you one day.

"It's not the right moment (to share it). I am sure you will enjoy it. It is an equation about a manager's job. I made a formula."

Wenger watched record-breaking Barcelona comeback and admitted even he was left perplexed as to how the Catalan giants pulled it off.

"I watched Barcelona. It was quite poor!" he joked. "I stayed there (watching it) because it is interesting on a psychological front to see how they respond, I wanted to see how Barcelona finished the game and in fact they had half given up.

"I looked more at it from a tactical point of view, what is going on mentally in the head of the players. At the end of the game even when you have been so long in football you sit there and think, 'How could this happen?'."

I made a formula! I made a fucking formula! :patrice: :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger:



I made a formula! I made a fucking formula! :patrice: :lol:

OMFG :doh:

And I assume his formula is telling him he's doing a great job and needs to stay?


I looked more at it from a tactical point of view, what is going on mentally in the head of the players.

Is this a translation thing or does he really think tactics are what goes on mentally in the head of the players? No wonder we don't have any tactics then.

[Marc Overmars]

"In the last nine years only once have we been the worst performing English club in the Champions League."

What about being the best?

Unless being the least worst is something to take pride in.

[Niall_Quinn]

What about being the best?

Unless being the least worst is something to take pride in.

That statement sums him up. We are not the worst. Is that the standard then? Get dragged around and gang shagged by every half decent team in the CL but nothing to see here because somebody else has more bruises.

Is it any wonder we can't compete when this is the mentality? His CL record is a shocker. Turning up is not a badge of honour. You have to do something once you get there. Why doesn't he get this?

[Marc Overmars]

It is a badge of honour to him. It's that kind of loser mentality that has damaged our club. Even his supporters throughout the years would point to the failures of other clubs, even though other clubs still had their moments in the sun inbetween the failures. No such moments for us though, unless qualifying for the CL 897 times in a row does it for you. As far as I'm concerned our performances in the CL have rendered the mildly impressive consistency of qualifying for it irrelevant.

[Penguin]

Is he serious?

I can't remember any other English club getting beaten 10-2. The others might lose to the Barcas, Bayerns and Reals but they don't get demolished the way Wenger's teams do. So much for not being the worst :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Is he serious?

I can't remember any other English club getting beaten 10-2. The others might lose to the Barcas, Bayerns and Reals but they don't get demolished the way Wenger's teams do. So much for not being the worst :lol:

He is serious and that's why it is so painfully obvious he has to go. If your retirement fund manager spoke like that you'd say fine, I'll use him but only for half the basket, just in case. You'd use him as the safety net and then pick a few potential gainers to add the sugar on top but no harm if they don't pay out.

That's what we have here, a blue chip, safe and reliable fund manager. And everyone in football seems to go mad for it, telling the fans what a great job Wenger has done to build an operation your granny would approve of in her old age.

30 million more for another 4th Place Trophy triumph. Could have been 60 million if we were in a position to beat clubs like Bayern but hell, it might have cost us all our profit just to buy the players to do the job. So 30 million in the hand is worth more than money you might never get. 10-2 aggregate in the last 16? Might I remind you, the 30 mill is already banked so what's the problem. And we can do it all again next year and the year after that. 20 years in a row. You work it out. What's not to be happy about? And you are sitting there talking about football scores? What does that have to do with it?

[AFC Leveller]

What has he got to prove by staying on for two years? What will change if he stays for two more years? What will we win if he stays for two more years?

Nothing.

[Globalgunner]

The beauty of Wenger is that he has turned us all into goldfish with short term memories. The spanking against Pool is forgotten in the wake of the walloping by Bayern. If he wins against Lincoln. Its then all okay, we have bounced back. Until the next beating by Spurs or City. He will then turn round and say it was just 1 bad result, why is everybody panicking?.

[Niall_Quinn]

The beauty of Wenger is that he has turned us all into goldfish with short term memories. The spanking against Pool is forgotten in the wake of the walloping by Bayern. If he wins against Lincoln. Its then all okay, we have bounced back. Until the next beating by Spurs or City. He will then turn round and say it was just 1 bad result, why is everybody panicking?.

Bouncing back tends to mean a recovery following on from adversity. But Wenger's bouncing back is more like a squash ball. You get hammered, bounce back, get hammered again.

[Niall_Quinn]

Arsene Wenger is edging closer to staying at Arsenal according to sources at the club, despite the humiliating 10-2 aggregate defeat by Bayern Munich.

Those with knowledge of the dressing room say the mood since has been one of determination to turn the season around and finish well. If anything, it has made many at the club, including Wenger, more defiant and determined to prove doubters wrong.

It would, of course, require a top-four finish or an FA Cup victory to justify staying.

If the club were to slump in the Premier League, Wenger could yet change his mind and accept that it is a time for a change.

At present, transfer recruitment plans for next season are intensifying, with Wenger directing them as though he were staying.

The significant difference from previous years when Wenger's contract was running down, however, is that intermediaries close to the club have begun to sound out candidates to replace him.

Men such as Max Allegri at Juventus, Newcastle's Rafa Benitez and Borussia Dortmund's Thomas Tuchel. And though Wenger looks more likely to stay now than go, the insecurity is putting Arsenal's planning at risk, which is why a decision will be required soon.

All agents of players targeted for next season want to know who will be the manager next season — and no one is in a clear position to tell them.

The club are planning to make major signings in the summer, with the strong possibility that a replacement for Alexis Sanchez will be needed.

The club can keep Sanchez for another year, but the diminishing work-rate he is showing in games (illustrated in the panel) has suggested to some that he is losing heart.

The club and player are in contract negotiations, with Sanchez understood to be expecting an overall figure including image rights which is close to £300,000 a week in order to extend his deal.

Arsenal will come close to meeting his financial demands, but the bigger issue is whether Sanchez wants to commit or move to Paris Saint-Germain.

Last summer's targets, such as Atletico Madrid's Antoine Griezmann and Monaco's Kylian Mbappe, are now coveted by clubs with bigger budgets.

Manchester City and Real Madrid are both interested in Mbappe and Manchester United will be able to pay more for Griezmann.

Borussia Dortmund's striker Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang is a player Wenger has admired for some time but the days of Arsenal being first in queue when it comes to major signings are long gone.

If Real Madrid, whose transfer ban for the summer has been over-turned, want Aubameyang, he will go there. If United and City decide he is not a target, then Arsenal might have a chance, but it is hard to justify moving from Borussia Dortmund to Arsenal as a step up, other than in financial terms.

The club appear more confident of coming to an agreement with Mesut Ozil. The German has recently bought a new house in London and, though final terms have yet to be agreed on a deal which would be worth more than £250,000 a week, talks are expected to resolve the impasse.

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain will be offered a new deal, despite reports suggesting he might wish to leave. But Kieran Gibbs, whose career has plateaued, is expected to leave, with Monaco's Benjamin Mendy likely to be the player they would want to attract as his replacement.

It would, of course, require a top-four finish or an FA Cup victory to justify staying.

The media working hand in hand with Arsenal and Wenger to set the scene. "Of course" (there is no question) "a top-four finish" OR "an FA Cup victory" (well we had an FA Cup victory yesterday, strictly speaking). How does Wenger do it? This is the same media that hounded and humiliated Bobby Robson. Nobody has escaped their teeth when blood has been in the water. Except Wenger. They are working with him to get his new contract signed.

How does the media know "of course" that a top 4 finish would be required? Is that why fans are saying they couldn't give a shit about finishing in the top 4?

But the transfer bullshit takes the cake. You know we have been trying to sign Griezmann and Mbappe. You remember, don't you? They were our targets in the summer. REMEMBER? It was all over the papers, remember? REMEMBER? Yes, you do. Good.

But it looks like the big money clubs are going to thwart us. Don't worry, Alexis and Ozil are staying. But if they don't, still have no fear because we'll be making BIG SIGNINGS.

So here's the picture. Everything is under control. It's all good. Relax.

To complete that picture, remember, the fans need to be more supportive (a bit more like spud fans), fans who criticise Wenger are "idiots" and those holding up protest banners are disrespecting the man who built Arsenal, a club that did nothing prior to his arrival apart from the odd greatest night ever in the history of the club at Anfield.

You can go back to sleep now. The people who have brought us to this point are in control and there's a plan for all eventualities. And thank you for your interest in their affairs but decisions will be made by the RIGHT people at the RIGHT time.

Meanwhile, here's a season ticket hike for you. That's your bit. See that you attend to it.

Cynics might say we are watching the fusion between an out of touch group of rich men and a pathetically compliant media. But no real fans would ever notice that. Real fans know what's good for them and will leave these things to their betters.

[GP]

http://i.imgur.com/kPUryVn.jpg

[Globalgunner]

You can tell he really loves his job.
Doesnt change the reality that he is crap at it.

[Power n Glory]

You can tell he really loves his job.
Doesnt change the reality that he is crap at it.

You're being brainwashed. He's a great manager.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-manager-arsene-wenger-believes-10012271

[Niall_Quinn]

One win against non-league Lincoln has changed the tide. I knew that's all it would take. I also suspected it is still a large majority of fans who don't really care enough to push through a change. I don't think they are necessarily pro-Wenger, I believe they don't really care either way. Something like 200 fans turned up to the protest, out of some 40-50 thousand. That's noisy but insignificant. I don't know what it is with the modern fan. I suppose if you are a consumer you don't really base your buying decisions on who runs the company, you are just after the flashy consumable. I dread to think what the next generation of football fan will be like. They'll probably switch teams weekly depending on what colours are trending.

Anyway, Wenger is showing he's untouchable. He's spent 20 years constructing an environment where the majority involved have come to accept that excellence on the pitch takes second place to excellence on the balance sheet. Building a stadium, sustainability, 20 years in the top 4, these are the things we boast about at Wenger's Arsenal, not title wins or European glory nights. The board is just a joke. Here for the share price and the financial credibility it provides them. The only thing to have changed this season is the degree of realisation at how much control Wenger exerts over this place. And that realisation brings the inevitable conclusion that we are in for several more repetitive cycles, an unknown number dependant entirely on Wenger, and only Wenger. If a routine cup win against a virtual pub outfit can buy the guy reprieve and credibility in the face of the worst beating ever handed out to an English club in Europe then imagine how little he needs to keep induced this coma that has become Arsenal Football Club.

Last hope now is that he actually fancies going elsewhere. I doubt that very much. But maybe behind the scenes a Dein or (if he has any) a friend will sit him down and persuade him to find a new challenge. It's a slim hope, to no hope. The rebellion is over, the empire didn't as much strike back as ignore the flea bite, maybe getting a little irritable as demonstrated by that great Arsenal man Sir Chips, but that's about all.

[Niall_Quinn]

You're being brainwashed. He's a great manager.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-manager-arsene-wenger-believes-10012271

I also think we're idiots and lack respect. We should be careful what we wish for.

[Power n Glory]

One win against non-league Lincoln has changed the tide. I knew that's all it would take. I also suspected it is still a large majority of fans who don't really care enough to push through a change. I don't think they are necessarily pro-Wenger, I believe they don't really care either way. Something like 200 fans turned up to the protest, out of some 40-50 thousand. That's noisy but insignificant. I don't know what it is with the modern fan. I suppose if you are a consumer you don't really base your buying decisions on who runs the company, you are just after the flashy consumable. I dread to think what the next generation of football fan will be like. They'll probably switch teams weekly depending on what colours are trending.

Anyway, Wenger is showing he's untouchable. He's spent 20 years constructing an environment where the majority involved have come to accept that excellence on the pitch takes second place to excellence on the balance sheet. Building a stadium, sustainability, 20 years in the top 4, these are the things we boast about at Wenger's Arsenal, not title wins or European glory nights. The board is just a joke. Here for the share price and the financial credibility it provides them. The only thing to have changed this season is the degree of realisation at how much control Wenger exerts over this place. And that realisation brings the inevitable conclusion that we are in for several more repetitive cycles, an unknown number dependant entirely on Wenger, and only Wenger. If a routine cup win against a virtual pub outfit can buy the guy reprieve and credibility in the face of the worst beating ever handed out to an English club in Europe then imagine how little he needs to keep induced this coma that has become Arsenal Football Club.

Last hope now is that he actually fancies going elsewhere. I doubt that very much. But maybe behind the scenes a Dein or (if he has any) a friend will sit him down and persuade him to find a new challenge. It's a slim hope, to no hope. The rebellion is over, the empire didn't as much strike back as ignore the flea bite, maybe getting a little irritable as demonstrated by that great Arsenal man Sir Chips, but that's about all.

We face either Chelsea, City, Utd or Spurs in the Semi final. If we tale a beating in the Semi's or lose to Spurs, it will kick off again. Heck, we still have league games to play. West Brom away and then City. Spurs away and Utd at home still to play. He's far off from being off the hook.

[AFC Leveller]

One win against non-league Lincoln has changed the tide. I knew that's all it would take. I also suspected it is still a large majority of fans who don't really care enough to push through a change. I don't think they are necessarily pro-Wenger, I believe they don't really care either way. Something like 200 fans turned up to the protest, out of some 40-50 thousand. That's noisy but insignificant. I don't know what it is with the modern fan. I suppose if you are a consumer you don't really base your buying decisions on who runs the company, you are just after the flashy consumable. I dread to think what the next generation of football fan will be like. They'll probably switch teams weekly depending on what colours are trending.

Anyway, Wenger is showing he's untouchable. He's spent 20 years constructing an environment where the majority involved have come to accept that excellence on the pitch takes second place to excellence on the balance sheet. Building a stadium, sustainability, 20 years in the top 4, these are the things we boast about at Wenger's Arsenal, not title wins or European glory nights. The board is just a joke. Here for the share price and the financial credibility it provides them. The only thing to have changed this season is the degree of realisation at how much control Wenger exerts over this place. And that realisation brings the inevitable conclusion that we are in for several more repetitive cycles, an unknown number dependant entirely on Wenger, and only Wenger. If a routine cup win against a virtual pub outfit can buy the guy reprieve and credibility in the face of the worst beating ever handed out to an English club in Europe then imagine how little he needs to keep induced this coma that has become Arsenal Football Club.

Last hope now is that he actually fancies going elsewhere. I doubt that very much. But maybe behind the scenes a Dein or (if he has any) a friend will sit him down and persuade him to find a new challenge. It's a slim hope, to no hope. The rebellion is over, the empire didn't as much strike back as ignore the flea bite, maybe getting a little irritable as demonstrated by that great Arsenal man Sir Chips, but that's about all.

Thats it in a nutshell, He is here to stay until he either dies or is really ill.

As a man, he is a class act and has done so much for the club but as a manager he is way past his sell by date and still doesnt understand that its not knee jerk to want him out, its 10 years of failure and consistently being spanked by European teams.

I honestly dont think he will leave and definitely dont think he'll be sacked.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We face either Chelsea, City, Utd or Spurs in the Semi final. If we tale a beating in the Semi's or lose to Spurs, it will kick off again. Heck, we still have league games to play. West Brom away and then City. Spurs away and Utd at home still to play. He's far off from being off the hook.

Unfortunately he's giving the distinct impression that results have no bearing on how tenable he feels his position is

[GP]

Unfortunately he's giving the distinct impression that results have no bearing on how tenable he feels his position is

If they did he'd be long gone by now.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If they did he'd be long gone by now.

Yes and No, i think there was always the impression that they had to get 4th place but i'm not sure that's even the case anymore.

[Power n Glory]

Unfortunately he's giving the distinct impression that results have no bearing on how tenable he feels his position is

That much is obvious. This has been going on for years and he's never felt inclined to step down after any bad result. I'm talking more so about Wenger losing support from the fans. I can't see him winning those games and I doubt things will settle down if we lose.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That much is obvious. This has been going on for years and he's never felt inclined to step down after any bad result. I'm talking more so about Wenger losing support from the fans. I can't see him winning those games and I doubt things will settle down if we lose.

Ok I should expand upon that and say i'm getting the impression that the fan reaction to these bad results seems to have no bearing on his thinking on how tenable he feels his position is.

Now this is not me saying the protests should discontinue far from it, in fact i think it should be escalated so the likes of Gazidis and Kroenke know they have to step in and take control, the decision cannot be left to Wenger because i now believe there is nothing that will cause him to think enough is enough.

[LDG]

Ok I should expand upon that and say i'm getting the impression that the fan reaction to these bad results seems to have no bearing on his thinking on how tenable he feels his position is.

Now this is not me saying the protests should discontinue far from it, in fact i think it should be escalated so the likes of Gazidis and Kroenke know they have to step in and take control, the decision cannot be left to Wenger because i now believe there is nothing that will cause him to think enough is enough.

The protests should be directed towards all of them, not just Wenger.

Lets face it, Wenger going only chops the weed off above the surface. It doesn't kill off the root.

[selassie]

We face either Chelsea, City, Utd or Spurs in the Semi final. If we tale a beating in the Semi's or lose to Spurs, it will kick off again. Heck, we still have league games to play. West Brom away and then City. Spurs away and Utd at home still to play. He's far off from being off the hook.

I hope so but I'm resigned to the fact that he's going to be here for a while yet. Regardless of the outcome he always has an excuse...there is always a reason.

Expectations are so low right now that I would hazard a guess that the majority believe we won't get back in the top 4 this season and we will lose to one of the teams in the Cup Semi-Finals.

I actually think he has verbally agreed to sign on for a couple more years but no statement will be made until the season finishes.

[Globalgunner]

The protests should be directed towards all of them, not just Wenger.

Lets face it, Wenger going only chops the weed off above the surface. It doesn't kill off the root.

There are only 2 people who matter in the Arsenal equation. Wenger himself and Kroenke who couldnt give a toss, as long as money is still being made. The only person culpable for this shit state of affairs is Wenger because he constructed all of this himself. He does not even deny it. The first thing he said when Kroenke bought the majority shares was. " I will leave unless he allows me to run things the way i have been doing before.

The funny thing is. given how much this so called billionaire loves money, to the point of taking a piffling 3m out of the club each year for spurious reasons. He could hire a world class manager like Allegri or Simeone for half of what they currently pay Wenger....and achieve same or better results. But Kroenke is an indolent owner...all his teams are shit, but he doesnt care since in the US all teams are guaranteed to make money end there is no such thing as relegation.

[Power n Glory]

Ok I should expand upon that and say i'm getting the impression that the fan reaction to these bad results seems to have no bearing on his thinking on how tenable he feels his position is.

Now this is not me saying the protests should discontinue far from it, in fact i think it should be escalated so the likes of Gazidis and Kroenke know they have to step in and take control, the decision cannot be left to Wenger because i now believe there is nothing that will cause him to think enough is enough.

I don't think he's done a U turn on what was said last week.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/03/09/arsene-wenger-admits-fans-mood-will-influence-arsenal-future/

But I'm not really referring to that either. I don't think a win against Lincoln is enough to satisfy the fans as NQ suggests. Not sure where he's gotten this idea that things have changed.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't think he's done a U turn on what was said last week.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/03/09/arsene-wenger-admits-fans-mood-will-influence-arsenal-future/

But I'm not really referring to that either. I don't think a win against Lincoln is enough to satisfy the fans as NQ suggests. Not sure where he's gotten this idea that things have changed.

It's changed for him, would he have made the brainwashed fans comment after the 5-1 defeat on tuesday? Perhaps but i think there's a level even to his brazenness.

[Power n Glory]

It's changed for him, would he have made the brainwashed fans comment after the 5-1 defeat on tuesday? Perhaps but i think there's a level even to his brazenness.

I don't see how that indicates a change in thinking. I think he's determined to win the fans back, as earlier reports indicate, and delusional enough to believe the problem stems from the press brainwashing the fans along with poor results. If he feels he can get us back on track with performances, the atmosphere will change. Maybe it will but I can't see this squad turning up for him in the games I mentioned. I don't know how he'll react if the mood gets worse with the fans.

[Power n Glory]

The protests should be directed towards all of them, not just Wenger.

Lets face it, Wenger going only chops the weed off above the surface. It doesn't kill off the root.

A protest won't get rid of the owners. The only hope is that a forward thinking manager comes in that can inject this club with new life and ideas.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

A protest won't get rid of the owners. The only hope is that a forward thinking manager comes in that can inject this club with new life and ideas.

No, No, No.....i wasn't saying about getting rid of the owners (obviously we'd both like that but yes of course it's incredibly unlikely)

What i mean is that the protests need to be geared to make the so-called board to act against Wenger, as i am no longer convinced fan pressure will make him leave of his own accord.

That said, how you'd do that....shrugs shoulders...no idea

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't see how that indicates a change in thinking. I think he's determined to win the fans back, as earlier reports indicate, and delusional enough to believe the problem stems from the press brainwashing the fans along with poor results. If he feels he can get us back on track with performances, the atmosphere will change. Maybe it will but I can't see this squad turning up for him in the games I mentioned. I don't know how he'll react if the mood gets worse with the fans.

I don't think Wenger is stupid, i don't believe for a second he believes telling fans they are brainwashed will win them over. I think he's saying "well they are so easily influenced and knee jerk that their opinion carries no weight anyway".

[Power n Glory]

No, No, No.....i wasn't saying about getting rid of the owners (obviously we'd both like that but yes of course it's incredibly unlikely)

What i mean is that the protests need to be geared to make the so-called board to act against Wenger, as i am no longer convinced fan pressure will make him leave of his own accord.

That said, how you'd do that....shrugs shoulders...no idea

That post was quoting LDG. I got what you said and agree.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That post was quoting LDG. I got what you said and agree.

ah...so it was....as you were :)

[LDG]

A protest won't get rid of the owners. The only hope is that a forward thinking manager comes in that can inject this club with new life and ideas.

Why leave the owners and board out of the firing line? They should be getting just as much shit for all of this.

I agree they won't just up and leave if 500 fans shout ill-thought chants at them. But they should get some of the heat.

Wenger has made a rod for his own back, and is 100% culpable for the failure on a footballing level. But Arsenal has lost more than just games of football. It's lost its soul (although Wenger is responsible for some of that too).

[Power n Glory]

Why leave the owners and board out of the firing line? They should be getting just as much shit for all of this.

I agree they won't just up and leave if 500 fans shout ill-thought chants at them. But they should get some of the heat.

Wenger has made a rod for his own back, and is 100% culpable for the failure on a footballing level. But Arsenal has lost more than just games of football. It's lost its soul (although Wenger is responsible for some of that too).

Prior to the sponsorship deals, they were always in the firing line. Whether it be protest about ticket prices, fans chanting 'spend some effing money', holding up 'time for change' banners, voicing anger and discontent at AGM meetings.....they're more than aware that the fans are unhappy. But I think it’s time we be more specific about the problem because we’ve seen plenty of changes here at the club but results remain the same. Some example I can think of.

- New Sponsorship deals to stop Wenger moaning about us being disadvantaged.
- Change of fitness ad conditioning coach to try and help with annual injury crisis.
- Investment in new fitness vest tech to detect when players fatigued and in the ‘red zone’.
- Change of Youth Academy Coaches and set up.
- Change of Assistant Manager (Steve Bould for Pat Rice)
- Appointment of Ivan Gazidis since Wenger was saying he was doing Dein’s job as well as manage.
- New Scout (Leicester City guy)
- Investment in new StatDNA tech (helped us signed Gabriel ;))

I look at all the above and tend to think that’s the Boards way of standing behind Wenger and supporting him without undermining his authority. That’s why I think a protest against the Board will just result in a reshuffling of the pack. They’ll keep Wenger but just shift a few pieces around him and that won’t fix the problem. We have to at least make it clear to them that we want him gone because we’ve never done that before.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It doesn't help that the hierarchical structure is Wenger-An out of office auto reply and Stan

Therefore the only option is to make it clear to Kroenke that keeping Wenger will be injurious to the crown jewel of his portfolio

[Özim]

I hope so but I'm resigned to the fact that he's going to be here for a while yet. Regardless of the outcome he always has an excuse...there is always a reason.

Expectations are so low right now that I would hazard a guess that the majority believe we won't get back in the top 4 this season and we will lose to one of the teams in the Cup Semi-Finals.

I actually think he has verbally agreed to sign on for a couple more years but no statement will be made until the season finishes.

If Wenger is here past this season it shows they don't give a damn about the fans we already know that of course, but it would be a more public show. Wenger is a trainwreck these days, no club who cares about football would keep him on given the situation, his comments after beating a pub team sum him up really, but that's Wenger all over, all about the last game, doesn't think about what happened before. His comments about 2 bad weeks illustrate that, problem is the he's got the fans living in fear and unwilling to really speak out about him (as the demonstration showed and the fact people with banners aren't tolerated).

This club has got a small club mentality, we're a big club only in terms of our bank account, in every other way we're not, joke of a big club to be honest.

Is this really Wengers legacy?

[Power n Glory]

Prior to the sponsorship deals, they were always in the firing line. Whether it be protest about ticket prices, fans chanting 'spend some effing money', holding up 'time for change' banners, voicing anger and discontent at AGM meetings.....they're more than aware that the fans are unhappy. But I think it’s time we be more specific about the problem because we’ve seen plenty of changes here at the club but results remain the same. Some example I can think of.

- New Sponsorship deals to stop Wenger moaning about us being disadvantaged.
- Change of fitness ad conditioning coach to try and help with annual injury crisis.
- Investment in new fitness vest tech to detect when players fatigued and in the ‘red zone’.
- Change of Youth Academy Coaches and set up.
- Change of Assistant Manager (Steve Bould for Pat Rice)
- Appointment of Ivan Gazidis since Wenger was saying he was doing Dein’s job as well as manage.
- New Scout (Leicester City guy)
- Investment in new StatDNA tech (helped us signed Gabriel ;))

I look at all the above and tend to think that’s the Boards way of standing behind Wenger and supporting him without undermining his authority. That’s why I think a protest against the Board will just result in a reshuffling of the pack. They’ll keep Wenger but just shift a few pieces around him and that won’t fix the problem. We have to at least make it clear to them that we want him gone because we’ve never done that before.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/03/13/arsenal-step-sporting-director-hunt-ease-burden-arsene-wenger/


Exclusive: Arsenal step up hunt for sporting director to ease burden on Arsene Wenger

This what I mean be a reshuffling of the cards. Is this the change we want to see and would it work? I'm against it but but would people here be happy to see a Sporting Director appointed to work alongside Wenger?

[Gooner23]

No way. Need Wenger gone full stop.

[Maestro]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/03/13/arsenal-step-sporting-director-hunt-ease-burden-arsene-wenger/



This what I mean be a reshuffling of the cards. Is this the change we want to see and would it work? I'm against it but but would people here be happy to see a Sporting Director appointed to work alongside Wenger?

Totally agree with you, all protest should be focussed on Wenger as that one change can bring about more immediate benefits to the on pitch performances. This is another smokescreen and they will fudge the issue. Wumger seeing that the tide is turning will gladly accept the appointment (which he'll no doubt choose), knowing fully well this will shift the attention from his own deficiencies. .......and to think he has always been against the "sporting director model", anything to save his skin.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/03/13/arsenal-step-sporting-director-hunt-ease-burden-arsene-wenger/



This what I mean be a reshuffling of the cards. Is this the change we want to see and would it work? I'm against it but but would people here be happy to see a Sporting Director appointed to work alongside Wenger?

Anyone know who Arsene has picked?

[Niall_Quinn]

I think there's more chance of getting rid of Wenger by begging him to stay. He'll do the opposite of what the fans want in most cases, maybe he'll be too stubborn to stay if we demand it.