The next manager..

[Marc Overmars]

I agree with that, I think we’re a very suitable project for a manager who’s strength lies in meticulous planning. Time will tell how effective Emery will be but I certainly don’t place too much weight on his stint at PSG. They’re a vanity project for the owners, everyone there is expendable and generally world class players don’t require a great deal of coaching either. It’s more man management that makes them tick.

[I am invisible]

He wasn't the right coach for PSG and their climate. It's clear from everything I've read he was way too detailed and meticulous for those pretentious, egotistical PSG players. Neymar didn't warm to his video analysis and pre-match prep because it was deemed long and detailed :doh: imagine that, poor little Neymar actually having to listen to instructions and being told what to do :rolleyes:

Whereas at Arsenal it's completely different. After years of laissez-faire Wenger we need a meticulous manager to come in and dissect every aspect.

Sometimes profiles just don't match and I think Emery is more suited to an underdog type club like Sevilla, Arsenal, Valencia etc i.e. a club with restricted resources that has plenty to prove where his work can really take effect, instead of the PSG's and Real Madrid's of the world with a dressing room full of uncooperative, pampered prima donnas.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of truth to this.

Whilst an impressive track record is always a nice-to-have, I'm not sure it's always the most important factor when making these appointments? Sometimes you've got to try and see past that and really focus on the skills and ideas that they'll add when working out who is the best fit our specific role / project. I see a lot of stuff about comparing similar levels (based on whether clubs are in the EL or CL places, or serious title contenders), but the truth is no two clubs (and their brief for managers / coaches) are the same - just look at the vast differences in styles between the top 6 in the EPL! Same 'level' but wildly different philosophies and methods.

You see it with players all the time - guys like Henry and Bergkamp were just kind of getting by in Italy, but it wasn't until they came to Arsenal that they really found their perfect 'fit'. Sometimes it's the culture and footballing philosophy that's the problem, sometimes it's the very specific role they're being asked to perform, when their skill set might be better suited to something else? Again, Henry was playing on the wing for Juventus, but we immediately made him CF and he never looked back. Petit went from LB to CM, Ralphy from RW to RB, Kolo from CM to CB, van Persie from LW to CF, Cazorla and Arteta from AM to DLP, etc, etc.

What if the same is just as true for managers / first team coaches? With a club like PSG, where some players are basically undroppable, and they're buying in expensive, finished articles who need no coaching, then oddly enough their ideal manager is probably someone like Wenger - a manager who never rotates his team, and spends all his time telling his players that they're great, and shielding them from criticism (Neymar would probably love him). Whereas someone like Emery, who is more about details and challenging players to improve, even if it means hard work and taking them out of their comfort zone, might be welcomed at Arsenal with open arms (I know a lot of Gooners will scoff at that, thinking that the current Arsenal squad is literally Comfort made manifest, but I think think the truth is that a lot of our players simply look lost, and have been crying out for clear direction for a long time now)? At any rate, it clearly wasn't a good fit for PSG's room full of super-egos.

I guess you just have to hope that the club have done their homework properly, and that the talk of the directors being blown away by the depth and detail of Emery's presentation are accurate. If that particular story is true then it's encouraging, because you don't just put together a presentation like that overnight - it's something he will have been thinking about and preparing for a while, meaning that he will have been aware of our interest for a while, and that this appointment isn't just a panicky, last-minute 180.

[Goonermerree]

To be honest, which manager who has won the CL would have come to Arsenal out of the current batch? I think they're already in posts. Sometimes you have to appoint lower than you would like and hope that it comes good.
He's got to be a better appointment then Rogers would have been and he was top of the list for a while.

[Cripps]

Yeah, I think there's a lot of truth to this.

Whilst an impressive track record is always a nice-to-have, I'm not sure it's always the most important factor when making these appointments? Sometimes you've got to try and see past that and really focus on the skills and ideas that they'll add when working out who is the best fit our specific role / project. I see a lot of stuff about comparing similar levels (based on whether clubs are in the EL or CL places, or serious title contenders), but the truth is no two clubs (and their brief for managers / coaches) are the same - just look at the vast differences in styles between the top 6 in the EPL! Same 'level' but wildly different philosophies and methods.

You see it with players all the time - guys like Henry and Bergkamp were just kind of getting by in Italy, but it wasn't until they came to Arsenal that they really found their perfect 'fit'. Sometimes it's the culture and footballing philosophy that's the problem, sometimes it's the very specific role they're being asked to perform, when their skill set might be better suited to something else? Again, Henry was playing on the wing for Juventus, but we immediately made him CF and he never looked back. Petit went from LB to CM, Ralphy from RW to RB, Kolo from CM to CB, van Persie from LW to CF, Cazorla and Arteta from AM to DLP, etc, etc.

What if the same is just as true for managers / first team coaches? With a club like PSG, where some players are basically undroppable, and they're buying in expensive, finished articles who need no coaching, then oddly enough their ideal manager is probably someone like Wenger - a manager who never rotates his team, and spends all his time telling his players that they're great, and shielding them from criticism (Neymar would probably love him). Whereas someone like Emery, who is more about details and challenging players to improve, even if it means hard work and taking them out of their comfort zone, might be welcomed at Arsenal with open arms (I know a lot of Gooners will scoff at that, thinking that the current Arsenal squad is literally Comfort made manifest, but I think think the truth is that a lot of our players simply look lost, and have been crying out for clear direction for a long time now)? At any rate, it clearly wasn't a good fit for PSG's room full of super-egos.

I guess you just have to hope that the club have done their homework properly, and that the talk of the directors being blown away by the depth and detail of Emery's presentation are accurate. If that particular story is true then it's encouraging, because you don't just put together a presentation like that overnight - it's something he will have been thinking about and preparing for a while, meaning that he will have been aware of our interest for a while, and that this appointment isn't just a panicky, last-minute 180.

Apparently Emery prepares the videos himself. He spends up to 12 hours editing and preparing videos for a 1 hour team meeting :lol:

And I trust Ivan + SAS with this appointment. They have been pretty robust and ruthless in what they've done so far. I've been impressed with the way they have made backroom changes, let players go etc. We finally seem to have a bit of competence making decisions at the club.

ISAS :bow:

[I am invisible]

To be honest, which manager who has won the CL would have come to Arsenal out of the current batch? I think they're already in posts. Sometimes you have to appoint lower than you would like and hope that it comes good.
He's got to be a better appointment then Rogers would have been and he was top of the list for a while.

I think we're increasingly going the to see the top clubs hiring coaches based on ideas, innovation, energy and 'fit' rather than experience and reputation. They may be in the minority at the moment, but the success of guys like Nagelsmann and Tedesco won't have gone unnoticed by boards throughout Europe - neither had so much as a single game of managerial experience before they took on their current roles (I'm not sure they even had professional playing careers either?), and yet they've both rocked out CL finishes in every season that they've bene in charge so far.

Part of me's actually a little disappointed that we've shied away from Arteta (assuming that's what's happened, and he hasn't simply decided to stay with Pep for another couple of years for his development) - it felt like a very modern, progressive move, and that we were actually getting ahead of the curve for once, but hopefully Emery will be more than happy to fit into the same kind of structure, and still will bring plenty of fresh ideas and energy with him...

[Cripps]

Le Grove in tears :lol:

[selassie]

He wasn't the right coach for PSG and their climate. It's clear from everything I've read he was way too detailed and meticulous for those pretentious, egotistical PSG players. Neymar didn't warm to his video analysis and pre-match prep because it was deemed long and detailed :doh: imagine that, poor little Neymar actually having to listen to instructions and being told what to do :rolleyes:

Whereas at Arsenal it's completely different. After years of laissez-faire Wenger we need a meticulous manager to come in and dissect every aspect.

Sometimes profiles just don't match and I think Emery is more suited to an underdog type club like Sevilla, Arsenal, Valencia etc i.e. a club with restricted resources that has plenty to prove where his work can really take effect, instead of the PSG's and Real Madrid's of the world with a dressing room full of uncooperative, pampered prima donnas.

:gp:

[selassie]

Let me see Sevilla never finished in the top 4 with him. Lost the title to Monaco last year. For all the tactical genius crap, somehow blew a 4-1 lead to Barca last year. His team got embarrassed by a pretty average Madrid team.


Couldn't deal with Neymar, and essentially let him do what ever he wanted too on the pitch. And can't speak English.

Yeah, great hire.

Would you have preferred Arteta?

[I am invisible]

Apparently Emery prepares the videos himself. He spends up to 12 hours editing and preparing videos for a 1 hour team meeting :lol:

And I trust Ivan + SAS with this appointment. They have been pretty robust and ruthless in what they've done so far. I've been impressed with the way they have made backroom changes, let players go etc. We finally seem to have a bit of competence making decisions at the club.

ISAS :bow:
I kind of think the backroom changes are the most important part of all this: the permanent / long-term hires who will form the backbone of the club's footballing identity going forward, and who will be responsible for things like basic training and tactics, technical competence, physical conditioning and mentality. The way I'm hoping it will work is that each new first team coach will come in and take us top the next level in terms of ideas and innovation - if it works then our permanent coaching team will then absorb these new ideas and add them to our basic coaching standards for the next generation, so our footballing identity is constantly progressing and evolving.

(This is where I thought we might be looking at someone like Buvac - not as the first team coach or even their assistant, but perhaps as a one of the permanent, background hires? A sort of director-level coaching role that sits somewhere alongside Sanllehi and Mislintat in the new structure?)

[Cripps]

I kind of think the backroom changes are the most important part of all this: the permanent / long-term hires who will form the backbone of the club's footballing identity going forward, and who will be responsible for things like basic training and tactics, technical competence, physical conditioning and mentality. The way I'm hoping it will work is that each new first team coach will come in and take us top the next level in terms of ideas and innovation - if it works then our permanent coaching team will then absorb these new ideas and add them to our basic coaching standards for the next generation, so our footballing identity is constantly progressing and evolving.

(This is where I thought we might be looking at someone like Buvac - not as the first team coach or even their assistant, but perhaps as a one of the permanent, background hires? A sort of director-level coaching role that sits somewhere alongside Sanllehi and Mislintat in the new structure?)

Hopefully Emery brings his no2. He's a terrier that doesn't stop barking orders. Exactly what we need.

[Master Splinter]

Damn.

All the posts doubting the appointment were proven correct. All the doubts have fully manifested into a living nightmare. But maybe less exciting than a nightmare.

It feels shit being right about this and the decisions of the club as a whole.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I'll judge him at the end of the season.

Which will be next weekend. :rose:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

2015-16 season not a single away win. 9 draws and 10 losses.

This sounds familiar......

[Letters]

You can dissect anything to put whatever spin on it.

Fact is we've just hired a serial winner. One that plays exciting, attacking football. Let's get behind this appointment.

:lol:

I miss N_Q.
I don’t miss Cripps.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Mirror say the Times say Mourinho had dinner with Sanllehi during the week.

It's going to be him isn't it? :lol:

[Thierrymon]

I mean as much as I dislike him, I wouldnt be against him being here short term if it could sort our defense out for the inevitable next manager.

I would worry about the impact he would have on our talented young players if he was here for more than a few years.

[LDG]

Lots of Twitterers saying Emery is gone. Just awaiting official confirmation

[AFC Leveller]

Mourinho can fuck off. He is a cancer and an egomaniac who will destroy this club.

[GP]

Agreed. Emery has to go, but not for Mourinho.

[Globalgunner]

I dare say the appointment of Mourinho will bring NQ frothing back. It would be more than he could take

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It's the third season where it all goes tits up with him.

Hearing him make it all about himself every week though. :sick:

[Mac76]

for what it's worth i heard a journo talking on a podcast, saying that people at the club said there's no way we''ll appoint Mourinho

i believe that to be honest, his high-spend approach just doesn't fit with our strategy - i klnow we got pepe but we're not going to make a habit of that kind of signing and i just don't think Mourinho works for us on many levels - I'm sure Edu gets that.

[Marc Overmars]

The sadistic part of me would love to see how mind fucked the fanbase would be if Mourinho was appointed. :lol:

But no, can't stomach it.

[Letters]

I’d honestly stop following the club if they appoint him.
I’m a nominal fan at best these days, that would pretty much kill it off for me.

[Penguin]

I hope we don't go for Mourinho, not only is he one ot the biggest twats in the game but he's also massively overrated. He's got a backwards style of football that stopped working a long time ago. He's never really found an answer to high pressing teams so he'll be useless against Guardiola and Klopp.

On the other hand he might be able to do something about our defense finally, but that's not worth all the other shit that comes with him.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Bayern Munich have sacked Niko Kovac. Not surprising after Frankfurt pumped them 5-1.

https://twitter.com/FCBayernEN/status/1191081788086591489

Who will they take that we dither and delay on? :popcorn:

[dazthegooner]

Come on Arsenal Bayern have shown the way sack Emery now.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Maybe they fancy a Spaniard from the Basque region....

[Bumble]

Let Emery lose to Leicester then get rid, its the international break after that which can buy a bit of time. there is no embarrassment in making the wrong appointment. most appointments end in the sack these days. Emery will get paid off so there shouldn't be any worry about him not being able to feed his family being unemployed. We have won 6 of our last 18 games.

Emery is lucky with what is going on at Spurs and United is probably distracting the attention away from how poor Arsenal are... certainly until Xhaka's breakdown.

[Marc Overmars]

Let Emery lose to Leicester then get rid, its the international break after that which can buy a bit of time. there is no embarrassment in making the wrong appointment. most appointments end in the sack these days. Emery will get paid off so there shouldn't be any worry about him not being able to feed his family being unemployed. We have won 6 of our last 18 games.

Emery is lucky with what is going on at Spurs and United is probably distracting the attention away from how poor Arsenal are... certainly until Xhaka's breakdown.

Agreed.

The embarrassment is from sticking with something that clearly isn't working or at least not showing any signs of even possibly working out.

The back end of last season alone was probably enough to get him the sack at any club that was serious about competing. To not finish in the top 4 from where we were and the fixtures we had remaining was unforgivable, then to choke like we did in the EL final should have told us everything we needed to know.

[Özim]

I'd take Mourinho personally, knows how to sort out a defence and is proven. A decent coach would work wonders with this team. His last two jobs haven't gone to plan, but I think at Arsenal he would get an easier ride and would be allowed more freedom.

He's not everyone's choice but I would rather have him than some nobody, think he would bring some of our players into line (and ditch Xhaka for good in all likelyness).

Tired of not being able to defend and having a manager who makes nonsensical decisions.

[Globalgunner]

For me to accept mourinho as the next Arsenal manager
1. He would have to sign a code of conduct agreement, where he cant bring the club into disrepute with his foul mouth antics
2. His initial contract would be for 18 months, starting in December and no payout clause if we sack him before time
3. He will not be the highest earner at the club. 200kpw or £10m annual tops. thats more than enough for any manager, maybe with incentives for winning trophies
4. We keep Freddie and add Keown to his staff
5. He is told he cant sign that Madrid tosser Ramos for love or money...its the kind of crap he would try.

[dazthegooner]

So no chance then :)

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I'd take Mourinho personally, knows how to sort out a defence and is proven. A decent coach would work wonders with this team. His last two jobs haven't gone to plan, but I think at Arsenal he would get an easier ride and would be allowed more freedom.

He's not everyone's choice but I would rather have him than some nobody, think he would bring some of our players into line (and ditch Xhaka for good in all likelyness).

Tired of not being able to defend and having a manager who makes nonsensical decisions.
He RATES Xhaka.

[AFC Leveller]

Last season I thought we played really well at home, esp the first few months. We beat Chelsea, Spurs and Man U and played them off the park. We also beat Leicester where we scored two world class goals and got a draw against Liverpool.

Don’t know what’s happened since but Emery has been too negative and has cost us so many points this season.

[Letters]

Last season I thought we played really well at home, esp the first few months. We beat Chelsea, Spurs and Man U and played them off the park. We also beat Leicester where we scored two world class goals and got a draw against Liverpool.

Don’t know what’s happened since but Emery has been too negative and has cost us so many points this season.

Wenger's last season our home record wasn't far off title winning form but our away form was embarrassingly mid-table.
It all added up to a limp 6th place finish.
Last year Emery slightly improved our away form but it was still pretty poor while our home form remained impressive.
This season we're looking pretty shaky home and away. We're only 5th because of everyone else's ineptness.
It's a complete mess.

[I am invisible]

Has he been sacked yet?

[Bumble]

Has he been sacked yet?

don't think so.... we have to get spanked by Leicester first.

anyway I am sure anyone can do a better job than Emery... like how easily Wenger was replaced

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

A friend of mine offered me a ticket amongst the Leicester fans. Never have I been so comfortable to turn a ticket to see us down.

Easily see us losing.

[I am invisible]

don't think so.... we have to get spanked by Leicester first.

anyway I am sure anyone can do a better job than Emery... like how easily Wenger was replaced
Luckily, the next guy won’t have to replace Wenger, so that’s something...

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Take Ten Hag off the list....

[Bumble]

Benitez?

[GP]

Pulis?

[Mac76]

Benitez?

Til the end of the season maybe, but he's only just gone to China, for me it's still Freddie as caretaker and give him the job if he makes top four

[Marc Overmars]

Just give it to Freddie and if we crash and burn, so be it.

The whole thing needs to be stripped back to the bare bones. This club has lost its way and there’s literally nothing in this team that represents to me what The Arsenal should be about.

Emery is charisma vacuum and that manifests itself horribly on the pitch.

[AFC Leveller]

Such a negative manager. He’s like Mourinho without the winning factor or the defensive stability. remember the days when The Arsenal used to beat Wolves, Palace etc at home? Or when we used to go to farmer teams in Europe and win 3/4-0? This guy has managed to drag our expectations and level so low that he would rather draw against Wolves than go for the un in the mast few minutes at home!!

Here we are talking about how many goals Leicester will score against us ffs. And make no mistake, Emery will go there and play for the draw and guess what? He will probably get it horribly wrong and come back with his arse handed to him on a plate.

[Xhaka Can’t]

A friend of mine offered me a ticket amongst the Leicester fans. Never have I been so comfortable to turn a ticket to see us down.

Easily see us losing.

I pity the fool that takes up your friend’s offer.

[Mac76]

I pity the fool that takes up your friend’s offer.

unless they're a Leicester fan, in which case they'll no doubt enjoy chanting "we want ten" after 45 minutes or so...

[Letters]

Just give it to Freddie and if we crash and burn, so be it.

I am coming round to this too.
I never buy into the "he was a great player for us so he'll be a great manager" logic, but honestly I don't see we have much to lose and at least Freddie comes into the job with a lot of good will from the fans which should invigorate things a bit.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

unless they're a Leicester fan, in which case they'll no doubt enjoy chanting "we want ten" after 45 minutes or so...

Last season at home against them a Leicester fan was singing at the top of his lungs....'champions of England, you'll never sing that' which was a bizarre thing to hear for a few reasons but typical of the banteroff we are getting from all manner of lowly clubs these days.

[Letters]

Not a huge fan of cherry-picking results but it tells you a lot about this team that we went away to Watford - a team who still haven't won a game yet - went 2-0 up and failed to win.
Utter wankers.

[Bumble]

Emery OUT

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Luis Enrique returns as Spain coach, so that won't be happening now.

[Özim]

Luis Enrique returns as Spain coach, so that won't be happening now.

Great news.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Clearing the way for Arteta. :bow:

[GP]

Artekkers :bow:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Pochettino?

[dazthegooner]

Sacked but NO!!!

[Marc Overmars]

Pochettino?

Yes.

[Letters]

Pochettino?

Yes.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

PochettiNO?

:good:

[GP]

I have nussink to say

[Chippy]

Pochettino?

YES YES YES

[Letters]

I’ll have what he’s having :unsure:

[Chippy]

YES YES YES

:dance:

[The Dismantler]

Agreed. Emery has to go, but not for Mourinho.


I say we need to give Emery at least till the end of the season

[Chippy]

I say we need to give Emery at least till the end of the season
Why? He will never improve.
He needs to go now.
Get Alegri before the spuds do.:fury:

[Thierrymon]

I'd take Poch over Emery in a heartbeat.

[Bumble]

We can properly hate Mourinho again :partytime:

[dazthegooner]

Well as he's taken over at the Spuds that a given.

[Penguin]

Why? He will never improve.
He needs to go now.
Get Alegri before the spuds do.:fury:

The board have officially backed Emery. Even if they change their minds they won't sack him until the end of the season. We're stuck with him.

[dazthegooner]

Well in S London I'm surrounded by Millwall fams they've always wanted to play us in a league fixture Emery it trying his best to make that happen :blink:

[Bumble]

The board have officially backed Emery. Even if they change their minds they won't sack him until the end of the season. We're stuck with him.

i don't think it would be a sacking at the end of the season, I am sure I read somewhere that its a 2 year contract with an option for a 3rd year.

[Marc Overmars]

Spuds made a tougher decision than the one we’ve got with Emery. Let’s hope we show the same balls.

[Özim]

Spuds made a tougher decision than the one we’ve got with Emery. Let’s hope we show the same balls.

We won't, that's the problem with this club, Emery is clearly terrible for us, but the board are having none of it, they'll just sit by and watch and ignore the fans, may as well write off another season.

[Özim]

The board have officially backed Emery. Even if they change their minds they won't sack him until the end of the season. We're stuck with him.

Just another example of why we're no longer a big club.

[IBK]

We won't, that's the problem with this club, Emery is clearly terrible for us, but the board are having none of it, they'll just sit by and watch and ignore the fans, may as well write off another season.

this.

[Mac76]

I'd take Poch over Emery in a heartbeat.

with spuds several points below a badly underperforming Arsenal side in the table? no thanks


i don't want that miserable moaner anywhere near our club

[IBK]

with spuds several points below a badly underperforming Arsenal side in the table? no thanks


i don't want that miserable moaner anywhere near our club

I disagree. With us, Pochettino would have the bigger club and better players that he has wanted. We need to look at what he did at Spurs over his 1st 4 years, not the last year when he was disenchanted that he was not able to pursue progression with new fresh players. He is hands down a better coach than Emery. Won't happen though, alas.

[Mac76]

I disagree. With us, Pochettino would have the bigger club and better players that he has wanted. We need to look at what he did at Spurs over his 1st 4 years, not the last year when he was disenchanted that he was not able to pursue progression with new fresh players. He is hands down a better coach than Emery. Won't happen though, alas.

I admit i can't entirely separate my view of him from his being spuds manager, but he's always seemed like one of those managers looking for excuses when things don't go right - he inherited a team of similarly-aged bright young players and it got hm so far but once it unravelled he didn't have a clue as far as i can see

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

i don't think it would be a sacking at the end of the season, I am sure I read somewhere that its a 2 year contract with an option for a 3rd year.

Didn't Ornstein come out and say that that is hearsay?....and that it's actually 3 years straight up.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Well in S London I'm surrounded by Millwall fams they've always wanted to play us in a league fixture Emery it trying his best to make that happen :blink:

Me too!

When I was in school, they beat us 2 nil in the cup. Never heard the end of it for the rest of my upbringing.

[GP]

Pochettino oversaw Spurs' greatest period of success in 50 years. He won fuck all.

No idea how to judge him.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I would take Pochettino in a heartbeat.

Let's not forget even Klopp lead Dortmund to a mid table finish. Then he came out and said, after a while the players stop listening to you voice....etc etc, blah blah blah....do we remember that?

Pay Count Dick Emery off and appoint Poch or go all guns out to get Guardiola in the summer when he may have had enough and City have won nothing or very little...

[dazthegooner]

Well Poch has said he could never take over at Arsenal so more good news :) https://football-talk.co.uk/154274/i-could-never-manage-arsenal-pochettino-ruled-out-managing-tottenhams-rivals/

[Bumble]

I would take Pochettino in a heartbeat.

Let's not forget even Klopp lead Dortmund to a mid table finish. Then he came out and said, after a while the players stop listening to you voice....etc etc, blah blah blah....do we remember that?

Pay Count Dick Emery off and appoint Poch or go all guns out to get Guardiola in the summer when he may have had enough and City have won nothing or very little...

Why would Guardiola want to join us when he is already at a top club. There are things to be impressed with Poch, giving youngsters a chance , making players get better. Surely things we would want from a manager.

Also if he replaced Emery and we finished top 4 above Spuds... that would be very amusing.

We need to do something though as even Mourinho might get Spuds to improve performances in the short term at least.

Unfortunately for us we have Southampton, Norwich and Brighton up next so even despite Emery we should be winning those games.

[Marc Overmars]

To give an average sized club like Tottenham designs of winning the league or CL clearly shows he is a very good coach. In the end Poch took them as far as he could but he turned Spurs into a different animal and he did it without the chequebook of the clubs he was trying to compete with. Their wage bill was also very low in comparison as well so they were punching above their weight for sure.

He missed the boat in terms of trophies but I don't see how the job he did can be considered anything but excellent.

Would happily boot Emery out if getting Poch was a genuine possibility.

[Letters]

A lack of trophies is the only thing you can fault him for but, you know, he was at Spurs...
Otherwise yes, he got them punching well above their weight and he won't be out of work long. I'd love him to be our manager.

[Özim]

Why would Guardiola want to join us when he is already at a top club. There are things to be impressed with Poch, giving youngsters a chance , making players get better. Surely things we would want from a manager.

Also if he replaced Emery and we finished top 4 above Spuds... that would be very amusing.

We need to do something though as even Mourinho might get Spuds to improve performances in the short term at least.

Unfortunately for us we have Southampton, Norwich and Brighton up next so even despite Emery we should be winning those games.

Wouldn't want Guardiola, chequebook manager and don't like his style of football.

[Letters]

Wouldn't want Guardiola, chequebook manager and don't like his style of football.

But you'd want Mourinho?! :wacko:

[Özim]

But you'd want Mourinho?! :wacko:

Guardiola is a 1000 worse than Mourinho, for a start Mourinho achieved wonders at lesser clubs like Inter and Porto, Guardiola has basically only had jobs at the top sides in their respective leagues.

Plus I can't stand his brand of football.

[Letters]

He's undoubtedly a successful manager but he IS a chequebook manager and do you really like his brand of football?
Also, his toxic personality is leaving increasingly toxic results at the clubs he leaves.
So, in brief, no thanks.

[Özim]

He's undoubtedly a successful manager but he IS a chequebook manager and do you really like his brand of football?
Also, his toxic personality is leaving increasingly toxic results at the clubs he leaves.
So, in brief, no thanks.

I don't mind his style of football so much. As for being toxic, he's the boss and he makes it clear no player is above him, some players don't take kindly to it. With the right group of players his methods works perfectly.

[fakeyank]

Guardiola is a 1000 worse than Mourinho, for a start Mourinho achieved wonders at lesser clubs like Inter and Porto, Guardiola has basically only had jobs at the top sides in their respective leagues.

Plus I can't stand his brand of football.

You cant stand Guardiolas football, but you are okay with Mourinho's 'park the bus' style of football?! :unsure:

Guardiola played a shitty pass-pass style of football back in the day, but they play quick passing football now. I would never take Mourinho. That guy is cancer to football.

[Letters]

That's the second time I've agreed with you today, FY :angry:
Stop it!

[fakeyank]

That's the second time I've agreed with you today, FY :angry:
Stop it!

We are growing old..

[Chippy]

But you'd want Mourinho?! :wacko:

lol. Just watching those spud cnts on SSN.
They reckon it shows they are a big club because they attracted someone like Maureen :doh: HE WAS OUT OF WORK YOU FAT GINGER ****.

[Mac76]

A lack of trophies is the only thing you can fault him for but, you know, he was at Spurs...
Otherwise yes, he got them punching well above their weight and he won't be out of work long. I'd love him to be our manager.

Just don't get all the paunchettino love on here, the guy's a w*nker IMO

[Letters]

Is he, though? I mean, forget who he was managing for a minute. Was he any more of a w*nker than a lot of football managers?

[Özim]

Pochettino is clearly miles better than Emery, but his record of failing to win a trophy is worrying, he developed Spurs well and that's what he seems to be best at, but he seems to have a ceiling and that ceiling is below that required to win trophies.

I'm more worried about Spurs under Mourinho, because the guy has a proven track record of delivering trophies, even in that bad spell at Man U he won trophies., realistically with him Spurs will end up above us, the most frustrating thing is we're lumbered with another manager who can't do the job, just like we've been for the last decade at least and have to watch on as others at least attempt to progress.

[Bumble]

Emery favourite to get the sack next

[cricketsi]

Lol, Zim the ultimate contrarian, so dedicated to his craft he's even willing to champion Mourinho's style of football :haha:

[Özim]

Can you believe this guy, he wants to bring Xhaka back. Don't think most fans want him back, no just because of his behaviour (and also what seem to be digs at them on social media in recent times) but also because he's mediocre and yet Emery wants him back in the team.

You have to wonder what Emery is thinking to be honest, he can ill afford to annoy the fans anymore, his job is hanging by thread as it is in their eyes.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/11866365/granit-xhaka-arsenal-boss-unai-emery-says-midfielder-could-return-against-southampton

[Özim]

Lol, Zim the ultimate contrarian, so dedicated to his craft he's even willing to champion Mourinho's style of football :haha:

22 years of Wenger will do that to you!

Just want a manager who gives us a chance of challenging, we've managed to replace one who was unable to with another one who also seems to make similar nonsensical decisions.

[dazthegooner]

It's like he's saying to the board go on sack me I dare you...

[LDG]

It's like he's saying to the board go on sack me I dare you...

The pay out it what he’s after now.

[dazthegooner]

The pay out it what he’s after now.

Cheap if we can get someone in who could hopefully turn things around a achieve champions league qualification which I can't see us doing with Emery in charge he doesn't see that what he is doing isn't good enough.

[Bumble]

allegri and arteta linked.... not sure why allegri would want to come... arteta bit of a risk... rather someone with some managerial experience.

[hobson's choice]

Honestly this whole management has to go. Raul and Co have no business running this Club. This club is gonna be the next AC Milan with these clowns making decisions.

[I am invisible]

I think I'm leaning towards Arteta as my first choice for Emery's replacement? Reputations and past successes seem to count for less and less these days, and I really think that clubs need to start looking for more tailored fits for their first team coaching roles. Arteta feels like he's a fit for us. He's an Arsenal man, he gets the prestige of being here, he knows a lot of the people at the club who he'd be working with, and I think he understands what the fans want - ultimately “success” will be defined as whatever the fans decide it is, so that last point is a pretty big one. Plus he seems like a great communicator and a big personality, who I think the players will respond to and will want to play for. My biggest gripe with Emery is that he has absolutely zero charisma and does nothing to inspire anyone at the club. He's a terrible man-manager who can barely communicate with his players (or the fans) and everything he tries to get across is either confusing or painfully uninspired.

I do have some concerns over whether Arteta could oversee raising the standard of our defending (although I suppose he can't really do much fucking worse), but then I also think that these are things that should really be addressed at a more fundamental level within the club? Being able to defend to an even basic level really doesn't feel like it should be something that's contingent on whoever we happen to have as a first team coach at any given moment - we should be making independent, permanent hires to our long-term coaching staff to work on that (and hopefully we'll have some scope to do it once Emery's useless entourage departs with him).

Oddly enough, I'm not as keen on Allegri as an option, in spite of his reputation as a defensive genius. I'm not sure his English is meant to be that great, and I seem to remember talk of him wanting to bring a big team of his own people with him and a big budget to overhaul the squad, neither of which we should be offering. Could be great, but then he could be another Emery who ends up costing a fortune and alienating all the players.

Don't see Pocchettino as a realistic option. Even if the Arsenal-sp*rs thing is irrelevent to him, I think he'll probably feel like he's done his stint developing a young side for now, and will fancy a shot at instant success in his next move. That's not going to be us - the biggest selling point we'll have to offer him is that he won't have to move!

[dazthegooner]

Think we will probably end up with Arteta maybe he can bring Pep as his number 2... :blink:

[IBK]

I think I'm leaning towards Arteta as my first choice for Emery's replacement? Reputations and past successes seem to count for less and less these days, and I really think that clubs need to start looking for more tailored fits for their first team coaching roles. Arteta feels like he's a fit for us. He's an Arsenal man, he gets the prestige of being here, he knows a lot of the people at the club who he'd be working with, and I think he understands what the fans want - ultimately success will be defined by the fans' approval, so that last point is a pretty big one. Plus he seems like a great communicator and a big personality, who I think the players will respond to and will want to play for. My biggest gripe with Emery is that he has absolutely zero charism and does nothing to inspire anyone at the club. He's a terrible man-manager who can barely communicate with his players (or the fans) and everything he tries to get across is either confusing or painfully uninspired.

I do have some concerns over whether Arteta could oversee raising the standard of our defending (although I suppose he can't really do much fucking worse), but then I also think that these are things that should really be addressed at a more fundamental level within the club? Being able to defend to an even basic level really doesn't feel like it should be something that's contingent on whoever we happen to have as a first team coach at any given moment - we should be making independent, permanent hires to our long-term coaching staff to work on that (and hopefully we'll have some scope to do it once Emery's useless entourage departs).

Oddly enough, I'm not as keen on Allegri as an option, in spite of his reputation as a defensive genius. I'm not sure his English is meant to be that great, and I seem to remember talk of him wanting to bring a big team of his own people with him and a big budget to overhaul the squad, neither of which we should be offering. Could be great, but then he could be another Emery who ends up costing a fortune and alienating all the players.

Don't see Pocchettino as a realistic option. Even if the Arsenal-sp*rs thing is irrelevent to him, I think he'll probably feel like he's done his stint developing a young side for now, and will fancy a shot at instant success in his next move. That's not going to be us - the biggest selling point we'll have to offer him is that he won't have to move!

What a good post. I want Emery gone more than anyone, but I think we need to be realistic and lateral thinking about who replaces him if the club does what I want and takes decisive action now.

We are a club in a lot of turmoil ATM. The current set up has lost the fans, and IMHO this is in the main down to the personality and approach of a manager who clearly has limited man management/motivational skills and whose negativity, stubbornness and cowardice have transferred themselves to his players. There is no joy, fight or self-belief in a team constantly set up in fear of even the lowliest opposition. And this has alienated a fan base that up until our craven capitulation at the end of last season were broadly supportive of Emery.

We are not going to find a proven world-beater mid season to manage our team, and we need to understand that there is no instant fix to where we find ourselves. I think we need modest aspirations at this stage. Firstly, to find clarity and identity in the way we play. We need to an extent to go back to basics in a more settled set up where the players understand what they are doing. Second we need a manager who can understand and connect with the fans - and appreciate the traditions and pride of our club. Third (and I think this is more controversial) we need to focus on performances more than top-four finishes or where are so-called competitors are, and I think that a more 'modest' appointment - if the other bases are covered - could counteract the obvious and choking pressure that is inhibiting us at present. For an example - look at most of our Europa League/cup performances this season. Until lately there was a freshness and exuberance in our play that contrasted with our league form.

I think Arteta could tick all of these boxes, and be our Lampard. He would bring goodwill that is sorely needed, and from what I hear he could give us some freshness and self-belief. Yes he would be a risk, but again, I don't see anyone available at present who would be otherwise, and maybe a less 'illustrious' appointment would give us a bit of time and space to steady the ship.

[Niall_Quinn]

What a good post. I want Emery gone more than anyone, but I think we need to be realistic and lateral thinking about who replaces him if the club does what I want and takes decisive action now.

We are a club in a lot of turmoil ATM. The current set up has lost the fans, and IMHO this is in the main down to the personality and approach of a manager who clearly has limited man management/motivational skills and whose negativity, stubbornness and cowardice have transferred themselves to his players. There is no joy, fight or self-belief in a team constantly set up in fear of even the lowliest opposition. And this has alienated a fan base that up until our craven capitulation at the end of last season were broadly supportive of Emery.

We are not going to find a proven world-beater mid season to manage our team, and we need to understand that there is no instant fix to where we find ourselves. I think we need modest aspirations at this stage. Firstly, to find clarity and identity in the way we play. We need to an extent to go back to basics in a more settled set up where the players understand what they are doing. Second we need a manager who can understand and connect with the fans - and appreciate the traditions and pride of our club. Third (and I think this is more controversial) we need to focus on performances more than top-four finishes or where are so-called competitors are, and I think that a more 'modest' appointment - if the other bases are covered - could counteract the obvious and choking pressure that is inhibiting us at present. For an example - look at most of our Europa League/cup performances this season. Until lately there was a freshness and exuberance in our play that contrasted with our league form.

I think Arteta could tick all of these boxes, and be our Lampard. He would bring goodwill that is sorely needed, and from what I hear he could give us some freshness and self-belief. Yes he would be a risk, but again, I don't see anyone available at present who would be otherwise, and maybe a less 'illustrious' appointment would give us a bit of time and space to steady the ship.

I think there's an element of contradiction in what you are saying. Understanding the pride of the fans kind of does mean chasing top 4 instead of breeding a winner's mentality. That's the root of the problem. For a decade the club and the manager told us top 4 was a trophy and an unhealthy segment of the fanbase agreed with that wholeheartedly. That's where the loser mentality embedded itself and started to rot the entire club. Second best (or 4th best) became acceptable on every level, acceptable not just with the club but also many of the fans. That's what needs to be halted, reversed and eradicated and I see no significant signs of it so far. We still have fans saying if Emery doesn't get top 4 he can go.

None of us have firm information about what's going on inside the club. Have the owners resolved to compete at the top level? For real? Their recent transfer spending, to a degree, hints they might be thinking about it. Then again, their net spend still suggests the sustainability nonsense that simply isn't realistic in the modern game. It just isn't. Even mid table clubs are taking risks on spending. Whatever, we'll need the owners fully committed if we are serious about clawing a route back to the top. (Top means #1, not #4 - we need to get that right at least).

Is the manager here to compete for the top prizes? Or is he protecting his contract by aiming for a pre-determined target, let me guess, top 4 within 2 years? If that's what we have here then we've lost before we start. It's just a continuation of Wenger's reign.

Are the players committed to winning or are they here for the salaries and the shop window? Have the losers been purged and the winners retained? Are our star players now locked in for the future? Will we make the same mistakes again? Doesn't look so good from here.

My point is, you can bring anyone in and maybe they'll even give us a bump in results for a while. But if they aren't coming here to change the whole culture, WITH the support and absolute commitment of the owners, WITH the support and absolute commitment of the staff, WITH the support and and absolute commitment of the players - what difference will a new guy really be able to make? We'll just end up back in the same hole, gloriously failing at the critical moments against more resolute and cohesive opponents. We've seen it all before.

Going back to the fans, I can't say I rate them much given their attitude over the last months. Many of them seem to think it's just a case of lucky dip. Keep hiring players and managers until it magically clicks. Find some guru who can single-handedly turn it all around. How long did it take Jurgen "Flopp" - remember when people were calling him that? How much money? Pep, of course, had a fortune available from the outset. These two, like it or not, represent the pinnacle of the competition right now and they are a thousand miles clear of anyone else. How will we compete with that? Are we even trying to compete at that level?

The fans could do with calming down a bit, stepping back from the building media click frenzy and asking some simple questions, not just of the manager, but the owners, the staff, the players and themselves. Is everyone in this together to win? If the answer isn't yes, across the board, then sure, sack the manager. Gives us something to talk about but that's all really. Seems to me that Emery (a guy I didn't want here tbh) is carrying the whole can for owners who watched the club rot, players that took the piss and fans that boo their own captain off the field. He deserves a fair share of criticism - a fair share. Nobody should still be getting a free ride here though.

I've worked in organisations that were complacent and badly run. It's almost pointless trying to excel in those places. I've also worked in places that buzzed with the energy of everyone hitting goals and targets. Both are infectious. The former is very hard to turn around.

[Özim]

I think I'm leaning towards Arteta as my first choice for Emery's replacement? Reputations and past successes seem to count for less and less these days, and I really think that clubs need to start looking for more tailored fits for their first team coaching roles. Arteta feels like he's a fit for us. He's an Arsenal man, he gets the prestige of being here, he knows a lot of the people at the club who he'd be working with, and I think he understands what the fans want - ultimately “success” will be defined as whatever the fans decide it is, so that last point is a pretty big one. Plus he seems like a great communicator and a big personality, who I think the players will respond to and will want to play for. My biggest gripe with Emery is that he has absolutely zero charisma and does nothing to inspire anyone at the club. He's a terrible man-manager who can barely communicate with his players (or the fans) and everything he tries to get across is either confusing or painfully uninspired.

I do have some concerns over whether Arteta could oversee raising the standard of our defending (although I suppose he can't really do much fucking worse), but then I also think that these are things that should really be addressed at a more fundamental level within the club? Being able to defend to an even basic level really doesn't feel like it should be something that's contingent on whoever we happen to have as a first team coach at any given moment - we should be making independent, permanent hires to our long-term coaching staff to work on that (and hopefully we'll have some scope to do it once Emery's useless entourage departs with him).

Oddly enough, I'm not as keen on Allegri as an option, in spite of his reputation as a defensive genius. I'm not sure his English is meant to be that great, and I seem to remember talk of him wanting to bring a big team of his own people with him and a big budget to overhaul the squad, neither of which we should be offering. Could be great, but then he could be another Emery who ends up costing a fortune and alienating all the players.

Don't see Pocchettino as a realistic option. Even if the Arsenal-sp*rs thing is irrelevent to him, I think he'll probably feel like he's done his stint developing a young side for now, and will fancy a shot at instant success in his next move. That's not going to be us - the biggest selling point we'll have to offer him is that he won't have to move!

I just don't think Arteta is the right guy

He's not really an Arsenal man though is he, yes he played for us, but he hardly excelled and to be honest spend long spells out injured, he wasn't a fan favourite and was only made captain because Wenger decided it and there was noone who was captain material anyway. During his spell we weren't successful at all, so to say he understands success is stretching the truth, we were pretty average whilst he was here, he was neither a great communicator or big personnality either, he seemed more like a mouse if I'm honest, didn't speak much, didn't stand up and be counted on the pitch, didn't motivate thoses around him, he wasn't much of a captain IMO.

Now sure reputations/past successes aren't everything, but management experience does mean something, this guy hasn't managed at all, he did take over 1 match when Guardiola wasn't around but City lost that, if we're going to take a punt surely someone like Vieira who has managed and has done a decent job is a better bet, he'll also certainly get more respect from fans and players alike. Without wanting to sound harsh, Arteta is a nobody, he was a middle of the road player whose best days were at Everton, at Arsenal he was mediocre and not even really a starter, but besides that he's just an assistant manager and there's plenty of great assistant managers (better than Arteta) who have tried their hand at management and failed miserably, let's not forget that City's success can hardly be attributed to him when Guardiola had been winning at Barca and Bayern without him.

No, I think he's be a terrible choice for all the reasons stated, this isn't the kind of appointment a club of our stature makes, a championship club or lower division club might take a punt, but not a big PL club, the fact we're even contemplating this guy just show how small time we are to be honest and it's a bit embarrassing that this club would consider him. Given the last 15 years and last 2 managers you would think the club would learn their lesson and bring someone established in, yes it doesn't guarantee success, but statistically there's far more chance of success with someone like this than a guy with no management experience.

I really don't understand why anyone would want Arteta to be honest, he wasn't a great player for us, wasn't much of a leader, has never managed at any level and isn't really the reason City are successful in reality, that's entirely down to Guardiola and the big budget he's had.

[IBK]

I think there's an element of contradiction in what you are saying. Understanding the pride of the fans kind of does mean chasing top 4 instead of breeding a winner's mentality. That's the root of the problem. For a decade the club and the manager told us top 4 was a trophy and an unhealthy segment of the fanbase agreed with that wholeheartedly. That's where the loser mentality embedded itself and started to rot the entire club. Second best (or 4th best) became acceptable on every level, acceptable not just with the club but also many of the fans. That's what needs to be halted, reversed and eradicated and I see no significant signs of it so far. We still have fans saying if Emery doesn't get top 4 he can go.

None of us have firm information about what's going on inside the club. Have the owners resolved to compete at the top level? For real? Their recent transfer spending, to a degree, hints they might be thinking about it. Then again, their net spend still suggests the sustainability nonsense that simply isn't realistic in the modern game. It just isn't. Even mid table clubs are taking risks on spending. Whatever, we'll need the owners fully committed if we are serious about clawing a route back to the top. (Top means #1, not #4 - we need to get that right at least).

Is the manager here to compete for the top prizes? Or is he protecting his contract by aiming for a pre-determined target, let me guess, top 4 within 2 years? If that's what we have here then we've lost before we start. It's just a continuation of Wenger's reign.

Are the players committed to winning or are they here for the salaries and the shop window? Have the losers been purged and the winners retained? Are our star players now locked in for the future? Will we make the same mistakes again? Doesn't look so good from here.

My point is, you can bring anyone in and maybe they'll even give us a bump in results for a while. But if they aren't coming here to change the whole culture, WITH the support and absolute commitment of the owners, WITH the support and absolute commitment of the staff, WITH the support and and absolute commitment of the players - what difference will a new guy really be able to make? We'll just end up back in the same hole, gloriously failing at the critical moments against more resolute and cohesive opponents. We've seen it all before.

Going back to the fans, I can't say I rate them much given their attitude over the last months. Many of them seem to think it's just a case of lucky dip. Keep hiring players and managers until it magically clicks. Find some guru who can single-handedly turn it all around. How long did it take Jurgen "Flopp" - remember when people were calling him that? How much money? Pep, of course, had a fortune available from the outset. These two, like it or not, represent the pinnacle of the competition right now and they are a thousand miles clear of anyone else. How will we compete with that? Are we even trying to compete at that level?

The fans could do with calming down a bit, stepping back from the building media click frenzy and asking some simple questions, not just of the manager, but the owners, the staff, the players and themselves. Is everyone in this together to win? If the answer isn't yes, across the board, then sure, sack the manager. Gives us something to talk about but that's all really. Seems to me that Emery (a guy I didn't want here tbh) is carrying the whole can for owners who watched the club rot, players that took the piss and fans that boo their own captain off the field. He deserves a fair share of criticism - a fair share. Nobody should still be getting a free ride here though.

I've worked in organisations that were complacent and badly run. It's almost pointless trying to excel in those places. I've also worked in places that buzzed with the energy of everyone hitting goals and targets. Both are infectious. The former is very hard to turn around.

Good points NQ.

Re my apparent contradiction, I would emphasise that I'm not suggesting for a moment we should not have title winning aspirations, and I am as frustrated as anyone that the winners' mentality has been leached out of our DNA over the past decade and a half :yikes: - albeit that it could be argued there were logical reasons for this (stadium project that in hindsight did not get us where we wanted to be; the oligarchs; the tsunami of TV money).

But I feel strongly that we need to be pragmatic and realistic about how we are going to achieve what we fans crave. And I think that starts with recognising where we are. That is not defeatist. It is common sense. We need to stop the rot immediately in my view. There is no oven ready world beating manager in the market mid season, and as you rightly point out, even a Klopp or a Guardiola would struggle to fight the number of fires that need putting out at our club as things now stand.

I don't think it is far-fetched that a manager with a past connection with the Club, and who has been part of the most successful EPL team of recent times would both restore the connection with the fans that is so badly needed, and bring a winning philosophy to our team. From what I hear, Arteta is a pretty uncompromising character who would take underperforming players in hand. There is nothing to suggest that he would be the coward that we have seen Emery to be.

As I said, the next task for the manager would be to restore some feel good energy to an underperforming team. The fact that this has so palpably disappeared under Emery is in my view down to him, not a club hierarchy who did their bit over the Summer to make some exciting player signings.

Should a manager be appointed with the aim of securing top 4? No. The aim should be to win, of course, and the appointment of a so-called Europa League specialist was in hindsight too low an aspiration. What was not wrong in principle, however, was to aim to build steadily rather than expect instant success - which is, as you have said, something that was beyond even Guardiola and Klopp when they came. Given where we are now there are worse ideas, in my view, in seeing whether we can go the Lampard route rather than appoint a more illustrious manage who is probably not available anyway.

As for the fans. I agree with you. I am not impressed by some of our fans' behaviour, and I would dearly like to see an approach by Gooners that has the best interests of the club at heart rather than knee jerking along with everyone else. What I cannot blame the fans for however is our recognition that the manager's current sitiation is untenable, and that the job is beyond him.

[Globalgunner]

Arteta to my mind would be a terrible choice. No logic in that one at all. His history with us has been rose tinted. What I heard behind the scenes was that he was a sour character that none of his teammates liked. He was imposed by Wenger, because Wenger does what Wenger usually does. Follows his own ego.
If Everton are not considering Arteta why the fk are we?. We made one bad choice following years of Wenger stagnation. This time around we should be even more circumspect. Bring in in a manager who we can all rally around. Not someone who instantly divides an already disgruntled fanbase.

Id like Emery gone immediately. But am prepared to wait till next season to get the right man. Even Emeryshite cannot relegate us (I think). We may finish 15th in the table with the way things are going. Lets take our time and spend the next 6 months searching or waiting for a proven winner. Id like it to be NES, but really there are many achievable candidates superior to Arteta

[IBK]

Arteta to my mind would be a terrible choice. No logic in that one at all. His history with us has been rose tinted. What I heard behind the scenes was that he was a sour character that none of his teammates liked. He was imposed by Wenger, because Wenger does what Wenger usually does. Follows his own ego.
If Everton are not considering Arteta why the fk are we?. We made one bad choice following years of Wenger stagnation. This time around we should be even more circumspect. Bring in in a manager who we can all rally around. Not someone who instantly divides an already disgruntled fanbase.

Id like Emery gone immediately. But am prepared to wait till next season to get the right man. Even Emeryshite cannot relegate us (I think). We may finish 15th in the table with the way things are going. Lets take our time and spend the next 6 months searching or waiting for a proven winner. Id like it to be NES, but really there are many achievable candidates superior to Arteta

I think the consequences of Emery staying would go beyond league position. If he stays to the end of the season we will almost certainly lose our best players, and our up and coming talent might be irretrievably damaged - at least in terms of their Arsenal careers. The disconnect between fans and club (not to mention fans and players) will reach near-irreperable levels and our ability to attract top talent will be damaged not only by the toxic result, but by the fact that we will not even be playing Europa League football.

In other words, I fear that even the 'superior candidates' that you mention will be available in the close season will have very little to work with. Add to the mix that we won't provide Citeh or Manure style backing to a new manager, and I wonder who will be able to be the 'magic bullet' that we think might be out there. Like it or not - Arsenal has reached the stage where a top-billed manager will not be given the time and patience by the fans that may be required to try to sort out the clusterfuck that we may well be by Summer 2020. I get aspirations - I really do - but I am very sceptical that waiting 6 or 7 months for a 'title winning' manager will end up with success. That's why I would be willing to support a different approach.

[Bumble]

Get rid of Emery. Then worry about who will replace him. We aren't going to get relegated. Our strikers will see to that. I think if we miss out on CL football again then I imagine one of Laca or Aubu will go. If it is Laca then hopefully we can do a Liverpool and sell for a ridiculous price that can then be reinvested into the team. We don't have a lot of really sellable players, so sometimes you have take a step back to go 2 steps forward.

Although maybe its Freddies fault, replaces Bould as assistant manager and we are worse.

[Marc Overmars]

There's already talk Auba and Laca will not sign a new deal with Emery around, on top of the various stories we've heard about the squad being disillusioned with his "tactics".

He can't be given the season to turn it around, that would be suicide because the players are not responding to anything he's setting out for them and they haven't done so for a very long time. I think it's reasonably clear we're probably going to finish mid table unless the club act now. So make the call and get rid him, put this sorry chapter behind us and lets start looking forward again.

We have a good squad with some very good players. They just need some direction and most importantly on a human level to feel a connection with whoever is guiding them. Of which Emery provides nothing because he is a charisma vacuum.

[AFC Leveller]

https://youtu.be/kCj5mYgIR1Y

[Niall_Quinn]

Good points NQ.

Re my apparent contradiction, I would emphasise that I'm not suggesting for a moment we should not have title winning aspirations, and I am as frustrated as anyone that the winners' mentality has been leached out of our DNA over the past decade and a half :yikes: - albeit that it could be argued there were logical reasons for this (stadium project that in hindsight did not get us where we wanted to be; the oligarchs; the tsunami of TV money).

But I feel strongly that we need to be pragmatic and realistic about how we are going to achieve what we fans crave. And I think that starts with recognising where we are. That is not defeatist. It is common sense. We need to stop the rot immediately in my view. There is no oven ready world beating manager in the market mid season, and as you rightly point out, even a Klopp or a Guardiola would struggle to fight the number of fires that need putting out at our club as things now stand.

I don't think it is far-fetched that a manager with a past connection with the Club, and who has been part of the most successful EPL team of recent times would both restore the connection with the fans that is so badly needed, and bring a winning philosophy to our team. From what I hear, Arteta is a pretty uncompromising character who would take underperforming players in hand. There is nothing to suggest that he would be the coward that we have seen Emery to be.

As I said, the next task for the manager would be to restore some feel good energy to an underperforming team. The fact that this has so palpably disappeared under Emery is in my view down to him, not a club hierarchy who did their bit over the Summer to make some exciting player signings.

Should a manager be appointed with the aim of securing top 4? No. The aim should be to win, of course, and the appointment of a so-called Europa League specialist was in hindsight too low an aspiration. What was not wrong in principle, however, was to aim to build steadily rather than expect instant success - which is, as you have said, something that was beyond even Guardiola and Klopp when they came. Given where we are now there are worse ideas, in my view, in seeing whether we can go the Lampard route rather than appoint a more illustrious manage who is probably not available anyway.

As for the fans. I agree with you. I am not impressed by some of our fans' behaviour, and I would dearly like to see an approach by Gooners that has the best interests of the club at heart rather than knee jerking along with everyone else. What I cannot blame the fans for however is our recognition that the manager's current sitiation is untenable, and that the job is beyond him.

Good to speak with you again IBK.

I don't disagree with you regarding Emery. Filling the gap left by Wenger, even when multiple people were assigned to fill it, was always going to be a struggle. Emery's soft and cautious approach isn't what we needed, in fact the reverse of what was required. But they must have had something in mind when they hired him. There must have been some sort of plan.

I didn't particularly want Arteta either, but I'd settled on him when it looked like he was getting the job - for a lot of the reasons you point out. Definitely it would have been a new approach with prospects for disaster or success in equal measure. It was the different approach, the unknown, the total contrast with two decades of Wenger that sold me. Whatever Arteta delivered would at least be very different in terms of his relationship with the players, the expectations placed upon him and the inevitable desire to prove himself. And, if I'm honest, Arteta was kind of disposable. It would have been no great surprise if nothing much was delivered on the pitch. And no big deal if after a season he got a tap on the shoulder and a helping hand out the door.

The trouble with bringing Arteta in now (if he'd even come here because I heard he was pretty pissed at how it all went down), we're a year and a half past the window where it made sense. Our big players are on the verge of walking away again. Expensive contracts need to be settled. The relief of seeing Wenger go could have countered the oddity of a rookie manager walking through the door back then. I think people would have accepted it was maybe an interim thing. But sign him up now, after the Emery stint, and I wonder how the players react. I mean in their entitled and selfish modern football mindsets. I think we see them walking and we're zero steps forward and three steps back. With a rookie manager.

I think they'll have to replace Emery with a big, established name, to send a message that we mean business (even if we don't really). Get those mercs to sign on the dotted line because we're going to need to add to them, not set about the boring routine of replacing them. An £80mill commanding defender for the centre is what we need next. Then a £90mill midfield general. This is what I mean when I ask if the owners are committed to success. Then, if you consider Leno to be adequate (which I don't) we finally, finally have the spine of a team and a half decent supporting cast.

Can we get there by doing another round of manager swaps? Maybe. But maybe it'd be just as well to stick with the choice we made and ride it out to the end result. That's what Liverpool did with Klopp. Get all the pieces in place and see where we are. I'm not even joking when I say were were probably destined for a relegation fight if Wenger had remained. You can see his legacy on the pitch every week as we huff and puff against very average opponents. So if we just say Emery is doing even worse, well we don't really know that's the case. The results are damning. The performances equally so. But maybe that's what you have to endure when a suicidal plunge off a cliff has to be somehow reversed. I have a gut feeling Emery can't stay in this hole forever. He's not the guy I would have picked, but he's not Wenger either.

If I was running things I'd be backing the manager and talking about contracts, big budgets in the January window - not about replacing the manager at the halfway stage, blowing the remainder of the season while the new guy settles in, and then starting the "he needs at least another year" routine all over again.

And the fans could play their part by getting together and apologising to Xhaka. Yes, I mean it. The guy never went out on the pitch with the intent of fucking the club up. But the fans were on his back non-stop. Just his back though. Like a pack with a scent. Now they're onto Emery. Who will it be after that? If that's the route we're going down in terms of giving support then we're domed anyway. We need the opposite. We don't need the team going out there afraid to make a mistake in case they become the next target.

My gut says we all pull together on this, rather than hitting reset. I don't think reset does anything more than add another couple of years to the process of stabilising and then advancing. Fans need to ride it out. Show some backbone. Accept that all this was absolutely inevitable given the scope of the damage inflicted by the last guy.

[I am invisible]

What a good post. I want Emery gone more than anyone, but I think we need to be realistic and lateral thinking about who replaces him if the club does what I want and takes decisive action now.

We are a club in a lot of turmoil ATM. The current set up has lost the fans, and IMHO this is in the main down to the personality and approach of a manager who clearly has limited man management/motivational skills and whose negativity, stubbornness and cowardice have transferred themselves to his players. There is no joy, fight or self-belief in a team constantly set up in fear of even the lowliest opposition. And this has alienated a fan base that up until our craven capitulation at the end of last season were broadly supportive of Emery.

We are not going to find a proven world-beater mid season to manage our team, and we need to understand that there is no instant fix to where we find ourselves. I think we need modest aspirations at this stage. Firstly, to find clarity and identity in the way we play. We need to an extent to go back to basics in a more settled set up where the players understand what they are doing. Second we need a manager who can understand and connect with the fans - and appreciate the traditions and pride of our club. Third (and I think this is more controversial) we need to focus on performances more than top-four finishes or where are so-called competitors are, and I think that a more 'modest' appointment - if the other bases are covered - could counteract the obvious and choking pressure that is inhibiting us at present. For an example - look at most of our Europa League/cup performances this season. Until lately there was a freshness and exuberance in our play that contrasted with our league form.

I think Arteta could tick all of these boxes, and be our Lampard. He would bring goodwill that is sorely needed, and from what I hear he could give us some freshness and self-belief. Yes he would be a risk, but again, I don't see anyone available at present who would be otherwise, and maybe a less 'illustrious' appointment would give us a bit of time and space to steady the ship.
Oh, I'm sure there's probably elite coaches out there to be had, even mid-season - I just don't think we can afford them, nor are we going to be attractive to them in any way right now. They'll be coming in on an instant points-handicap in the race for the CL spots, and it sounds like we've already blown next years budget - we may even end up having to sell off some of our highest earners and best players to reduce costs, so anyone with any kind of established reputation to protect is going to be on a hiding to nothing if they come here in our current state.

At this point, I'm not sure the club has much choice but to gamble on innovation. Doesn't necessarily have to be Arteta (although, like yourself, I think he ticks a lot of boxes), but I do think we need to be looking for someone who is either up and coming, hungry and eager to prove themselves, or who has a proven record of doing a lot with a little. We may not be able to offer much in the way of spending power until we're back in the CL, but we do have a squad of potentially excellent young players who are absolutely crying out for someone to lead them - a brave, charismatic coach with a strong vision could easily make this group their own, and that challenge should still appeal to someone.

Totally agree about the focus - rather than obsessing over the goals and targets that we want to hit, we should be going a step deeper and working out which habits / behaviours / skills we need to implement in order for those goals to become achievable. For example, there's not much point in pushing the team to play out from the back when they're quite clearly not yet comfortable with taking the ball under pressure (and possibly don't even know how to shape themselves to receive a pass properly)!

[I am invisible]

There's already talk Auba and Laca will not sign a new deal with Emery around, on top of the various stories we've heard about the squad being disillusioned with his "tactics".

He can't be given the season to turn it around, that would be suicide because the players are not responding to anything he's setting out for them and they haven't done so for a very long time. I think it's reasonably clear we're probably going to finish mid table unless the club act now. So make the call and get rid him, put this sorry chapter behind us and lets start looking forward again.

We have a good squad with some very good players. They just need some direction and most importantly on a human level to feel a connection with whoever is guiding them. Of which Emery provides nothing because he is a charisma vacuum.

Once you've been told that you can't afford any more slip-ups, or you've got X number of games to save your job, then you're basically gone already. After all, what are the chances of anyone going the rest of the season with no more slip-ups? Starting immediately?

As you say, just make the call and get it done - this indefinite state of purgatory isn't doing anyone any favours, Emery included.

[I am invisible]

Arteta to my mind would be a terrible choice. No logic in that one at all. His history with us has been rose tinted. What I heard behind the scenes was that he was a sour character that none of his teammates liked. He was imposed by Wenger, because Wenger does what Wenger usually does. Follows his own ego.
If Everton are not considering Arteta why the fk are we?. We made one bad choice following years of Wenger stagnation. This time around we should be even more circumspect. Bring in in a manager who we can all rally around. Not someone who instantly divides an already disgruntled fanbase.

Id like Emery gone immediately. But am prepared to wait till next season to get the right man. Even Emeryshite cannot relegate us (I think). We may finish 15th in the table with the way things are going. Lets take our time and spend the next 6 months searching or waiting for a proven winner. Id like it to be NES, but really there are many achievable candidates superior to Arteta

Well, Mertesacker at least sounds like he's keen to work with him again (so there's one bit of logic straightaway: strong lines of communication and maybe some joined-up thinking between the academy and the first team), and everyone at City talks about him in glowing terms. That doesn't make what you say about him being sour untrue, but given his positive reputation elsewhere, i'd be inclined to think that it was maybe less about being sour for no reason and more about being pissed off with underperformance. Maybe the other players didn't like it simply because it shone a light on their apathy and rocked the boat of the overly comfortable, overly casual atmosphere that had taken root at the club? I can imagine there were a hell of a lot of sour characters stalking about the place whenever GG's or Wenger's early sides dropped points

Anyway, like I said, it doesn't necessarily have to be Arteta - I just want to see us make an appointment based on ideas and innovation. NES is also an interesting shout - someone who's doing a lot with less at a smaller club. I think my biggest fear with the big-name coaches is that they all seem too obvious, and I don't trust Raul and co to do any kind of background checks or due diligence on them before making the hire. Like they did with Emery. At least with a more leftfield appointment they'd be obliged to put their necks on the block, and that would give me a little more confidence that they'd done some kind of homework first.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

https://i.imgur.com/kx96ZcF.png

:lol:

Looks legit.

[IBK]

Good to speak with you again IBK.

I don't disagree with you regarding Emery. Filling the gap left by Wenger, even when multiple people were assigned to fill it, was always going to be a struggle. Emery's soft and cautious approach isn't what we needed, in fact the reverse of what was required. But they must have had something in mind when they hired him. There must have been some sort of plan.

I didn't particularly want Arteta either, but I'd settled on him when it looked like he was getting the job - for a lot of the reasons you point out. Definitely it would have been a new approach with prospects for disaster or success in equal measure. It was the different approach, the unknown, the total contrast with two decades of Wenger that sold me. Whatever Arteta delivered would at least be very different in terms of his relationship with the players, the expectations placed upon him and the inevitable desire to prove himself. And, if I'm honest, Arteta was kind of disposable. It would have been no great surprise if nothing much was delivered on the pitch. And no big deal if after a season he got a tap on the shoulder and a helping hand out the door.

The trouble with bringing Arteta in now (if he'd even come here because I heard he was pretty pissed at how it all went down), we're a year and a half past the window where it made sense. Our big players are on the verge of walking away again. Expensive contracts need to be settled. The relief of seeing Wenger go could have countered the oddity of a rookie manager walking through the door back then. I think people would have accepted it was maybe an interim thing. But sign him up now, after the Emery stint, and I wonder how the players react. I mean in their entitled and selfish modern football mindsets. I think we see them walking and we're zero steps forward and three steps back. With a rookie manager.

I think they'll have to replace Emery with a big, established name, to send a message that we mean business (even if we don't really). Get those mercs to sign on the dotted line because we're going to need to add to them, not set about the boring routine of replacing them. An £80mill commanding defender for the centre is what we need next. Then a £90mill midfield general. This is what I mean when I ask if the owners are committed to success. Then, if you consider Leno to be adequate (which I don't) we finally, finally have the spine of a team and a half decent supporting cast.

Can we get there by doing another round of manager swaps? Maybe. But maybe it'd be just as well to stick with the choice we made and ride it out to the end result. That's what Liverpool did with Klopp. Get all the pieces in place and see where we are. I'm not even joking when I say were were probably destined for a relegation fight if Wenger had remained. You can see his legacy on the pitch every week as we huff and puff against very average opponents. So if we just say Emery is doing even worse, well we don't really know that's the case. The results are damning. The performances equally so. But maybe that's what you have to endure when a suicidal plunge off a cliff has to be somehow reversed. I have a gut feeling Emery can't stay in this hole forever. He's not the guy I would have picked, but he's not Wenger either.

If I was running things I'd be backing the manager and talking about contracts, big budgets in the January window - not about replacing the manager at the halfway stage, blowing the remainder of the season while the new guy settles in, and then starting the "he needs at least another year" routine all over again.

And the fans could play their part by getting together and apologising to Xhaka. Yes, I mean it. The guy never went out on the pitch with the intent of fucking the club up. But the fans were on his back non-stop. Just his back though. Like a pack with a scent. Now they're onto Emery. Who will it be after that? If that's the route we're going down in terms of giving support then we're domed anyway. We need the opposite. We don't need the team going out there afraid to make a mistake in case they become the next target.

My gut says we all pull together on this, rather than hitting reset. I don't think reset does anything more than add another couple of years to the process of stabilising and then advancing. Fans need to ride it out. Show some backbone. Accept that all this was absolutely inevitable given the scope of the damage inflicted by the last guy.

Likewise mate!

I agree 100% with you that Emery's appointment made some sense at the time. Unlike others, I don't blame the board for not 'aiming higher'. It was always going to be difficult culturally and structure wise to replace a 22 year manager and I thought it made sense to have an interim manager to try to consolidate with an eye as much on future appointments as last season's finishing position. I thought a top four finish was achieveable under Emery, and he is a Europa League specialist. And let's face it - we almost got there - albeit that I am still trying to work out how we blew up so spectacularly at the end of last season - was it Emery being 'found out' once other teams worked his tactics out; was it that he lucked out with Ramsey and then suffered when that player got injured, or was it that the manager simply cannot function under pressure and retreats into his shell - becoming obsessed with the strenghths of the opposition rather than having the courage to play his own game?

Whatever the reason - I think that instinctively most perople reaslised at the end of last season that Emery wasn't going to work. The board backed him in the Summer - and even though the players signed might have been decided at board rather than manager level I can understand this - having seen how the Emery decided January signing of David Luiz worked out. Yet Emery has confirmed what we were all seeing - even with a strong squad on paper he is kryptonite and it is self-evidently going to get worse rather than better now, IMO. I think that backing this manager in the January transfer window would be suicide.

This maybe controversial, but I don't even blame the club hierarchy for not sacking Emery up until now. We have never been a 'hire and fire' club, and we are only in November. To a degree any club's board has a responsibility to look beyond a hysterical press and reactionary fans who crave success, and be a bit more measured and patient in taking strategic decisions. I know that this statement seems contracdictory to my support for an Arteta to replace Emery now, but IMHO the evidence is now so compelling that the priority now is to get the manager out of the club before he causes any more damage. As I posted above, I think that keeping Emery to the end of the season will make the current situation look relatively benign.

So its against that background that I have sympathy for what may well be another 'risky' or 'underwhelming' appointment now. I agree that Arteta may well not be a long term or particularly successful appointment, but I feel that in many ways he may be a pragmatic one. Im not sure I agree with you that his appoitnment would alienate our top players. I think that Arteta would be more likely to work with them and seek their input this might be a good thing. I honestly feel that we have the talent to perform well even if a rookie manager simply does the basics and does not over complicate things - much as Lampard is doing at Chelsea. Most of all, I don't think we have a great deal to lose now - and we may need to accept making another appointment that may be 'interim' - even if this serves simply to illustrate precisely what is needed after that when we can see the results of a different managerial approach.

I believe that the club's plan was to work towards a bigger name appointment after 2 years of Emery - hopefully with CL football to offer. This plan is now out of the window, and I dont think it is as easy as some think simply to fast forward this process and make the intended appointment now. In these circumstances, I don't think that someone like Arteta would alienate the fans like Emery has. They may be underwhelmed, but I honestly think that what we need now is not the pressure that a big name manager would be under immediately because of the expectations that would exist, but a step by step approach to dealing with a situation that has gone spectacularly wrong. There is no guarantee that a big name would turn things around - look at Pellegrini at West Ham, or Van Gaal or Mourinho's stints at Manure. I may be naive, and I am no expert on the current availablity of proven winning managers, but any appointment at the present time carries risk, and I'm not sure that Arteta would be significantly more risky than anyone else when all factors are taken into account.

[IBK]

Well, Mertesacker at least sounds like he's keen to work with him again (so there's one bit of logic straightaway: strong lines of communication and maybe some joined-up thinking between the academy and the first team), and everyone at City talks about him in glowing terms. That doesn't make what you say about him being sour untrue, but given his positive reputation elsewhere, i'd be inclined to think that it was maybe less about being sour for no reason and more about being pissed off with underperformance. Maybe the other players didn't like it simply because it shone a light on their apathy and rocked the boat of the overly comfortable, overly casual atmosphere that had taken root at the club? I can imagine there were a hell of a lot of sour characters stalking about the place whenever GG's or Wenger's early sides dropped points

Anyway, like I said, it doesn't necessarily have to be Arteta - I just want to see us make an appointment based on ideas and innovation. NES is also an interesting shout - someone who's doing a lot with less at a smaller club. I think my biggest fear with the big-name coaches is that they all seem too obvious, and I don't trust Raul and co to do any kind of background checks or due diligence on them before making the hire. Like they did with Emery. At least with a more leftfield appointment they'd be obliged to put their necks on the block, and that would give me a little more confidence that they'd done some kind of homework first.

I agree with all 3 of your posts. I too am not wedded to Arteta - far from it - but I don't see the board going for a 'big name' now if Emery is replaced, and as I've explained i don't think that a big name manager is any kind of panacea. I would like to see what a fresher, more innovative and fresher coach could do with this team. If it doesn't work out then so be it and we move on...

[Özim]

The difference between Arsenal and other big clubs is that at Arsenal there seems to be a general attitude that appointing a top proven manager is a bad idea and that we should instead focus on some untried rookie, because we see ourselves as some sort of superior club that must nurture young players and feel that a top manager would cost too much and not want to come.

The thing is, a top manager will come if he senses ambition when you speak to him, if you show him the club are serious about challenging and are willing to push the boat out, then you can easily convince them.

The trouble is the board and owner aren't ambitious, moreover many of the fans convince themselves that appointing a top proven manager won't work, I dont see why not, they succeed for a reason because they know how to, that lot down the road have appointed a winner and after a terrible run have won their first game away and won again last night.

It only seem to be at Arsenal where small time managers (or people who have never managed) are popular, maybe that's why we ended up with a guy like Emery, small time mentality and little ambition, people often criticise Chelsea for sacking their managers, but it's worked for them, they have have countless success because of it, meanwhile we stick with a manager for 22 years and endure 15 years of relative failure and then bring another guy who is totally failing and yet it's OK because hiring and firing is beneath us.

For me it shows how much the club managed the fans expectations to the point that a large part of the fanbase see us as some 2nd rate club and positively embrace going for a lower quality of player/manager than a top club should.

If we're a top club let's behave like one, if not let's accept we'll linger in midtable, playing average football and attracting mediocre players, if that's the case though, maybe the ticket prices should fall to be more aligned with our newly found status.

[Globalgunner]

The problem is that fans have a cavalier attitude to the fortunes of their club. Yes it makes them miserable when the team performs poorly, but it doesnt affect the bank balance and life outside that 90 mins wont get better or worse each week. Thats why we say, lets appoint a rookie and see how it goes. It takes a cataclysmic event to make people wake up and see how days of our lives are withered away while we watch others reach for the top and we mumble about competing some day in the future.
If Spuds had won the CL last may Im sure there would be placards at each game by now, but since it was Pool, we resign ourselves to 2nd best. Pool won it, and they are in that league, so we accept our 2nd or now 3rd level status.
Ive been supporting this club since I was a kid in 73 watching Charlie George and GG strut their stuff. In those almost 50 years we have only once come close to winning the CL.
Another 20 years and maybe we will be the only London club without a CL trophy and people will still be advocating for a rookie to manage the 5th richest club in England and top 10 in world football

Wenger wasted at least 12 years of this clubs fortunes and we still are prepared to add on another decade of stagnation

[I am invisible]

The difference between Arsenal and other big clubs is that at Arsenal there seems to be a general attitude that appointing a top proven manager is a bad idea and that we should instead focus on some untried rookie, because we see ourselves as some sort of superior club that must nurture young players and feel that a top manager would cost too much and not want to come.

The thing is, a top manager will come if he senses ambition when you speak to him, if you show him the club are serious about challenging and are willing to push the boat out, then you can easily convince them.

The trouble is the board and owner aren't ambitious, moreover many of the fans convince themselves that appointing a top proven manager won't work, I dont see why not, they succeed for a reason because they know how to, that lot down the road have appointed a winner and after a terrible run have won their first game away and won again last night.

It only seem to be at Arsenal where small time managers (or people who have never managed) are popular, maybe that's why we ended up with a guy like Emery, small time mentality and little ambition, people often criticise Chelsea for sacking their managers, but it's worked for them, they have have countless success because of it, meanwhile we stick with a manager for 22 years and endure 15 years of relative failure and then bring another guy who is totally failing and yet it's OK because hiring and firing is beneath us.

For me it shows how much the club managed the fans expectations to the point that a large part of the fanbase see us as some 2nd rate club and positively embrace going for a lower quality of player/manager than a top club should.

If we're a top club let's behave like one, if not let's accept we'll linger in midtable, playing average football and attracting mediocre players, if that's the case though, maybe the ticket prices should fall to be more aligned with our newly found status.
The difference between Arsenal and other big clubs is that we're currently living well beyond our means, have gambled next year's budget on something that probably isn't going to come off, and we have neither the regular CL income nor the free-spending billionaire sugar-daddy needed to cover it. The infrastructure is also still in transition and all a bit of a mess right now. Believe me, I'd love to be in a place where we could casually bring in a top, proven coach and "push the boat out" for them, but I'm not sure we actually have a boat to push at the moment? That's not snobbery or superiority, it's just the reality of our present situation - we've gotten ourselves in a mess and we need to get our house in order before we can seriously think about approaching those kind of coaches again.

(What makes it all doubly-annoying is that we probably could afforded to give a top, proven coach some decent backing if we'd canned Emery off after the Europa final and made our move then.)

That being said, I do think there are still bold, ambitious appointments out there for us to make - top coaches, if you will - I just think we need to move for them early in their careers, like Klopp when he was still at Mainz (basically the coaching equivalent of moving for VVD when he was still at Celtic). That's where I think we are right now.

[Bumble]

Benitez

[Özim]

The difference between Arsenal and other big clubs is that we're currently living well beyond our means, have gambled next year's budget on something that probably isn't going to come off, and we have neither the regular CL income nor the free-spending billionaire sugar-daddy needed to cover it. The infrastructure is also still in transition and all a bit of a mess right now. Believe me, I'd love to be in a place where we could casually bring in a top, proven coach and "push the boat out" for them, but I'm not sure we actually have a boat to push at the moment? That's not snobbery or superiority, it's just the reality of our present situation - we've gotten ourselves in a mess and we need to get our house in order before we can seriously think about approaching those kind of coaches again.

(What makes it all doubly-annoying is that we probably could afforded to give a top, proven coach some decent backing if we'd canned Emery off after the Europa final and made our move then.)

That being said, I do think there are still bold, ambitious appointments out there for us to make - top coaches, if you will - I just think we need to move for them early in their careers, like Klopp when he was still at Mainz (basically the coaching equivalent of moving for VVD when he was still at Celtic). That's where I think we are right now.

I agree about the budget, but that's what makes keeping Emery on even more nonsensical, we need to qualify for the CL or it will really affect us financially due to these deals we deferred paying until the coming seasons.

I'm not sure we can't afford a top manager however, Wenger himself was on big bucks, I think it's more that we don't want someone who may question our methods and make it too hard for the guys above and if you look at the guys we're linked with they all appear to be exactly that.

I'm not entirely against a younger manager if that's the only option to replace Emery, but for me it would be someone who has at least proven to be half decent, someone who has managed, Vieira for example, not someone like Arteta who it totally unproven and whose only qualifications is hearsay from some of his friends.

[I am invisible]

I agree about the budget, but that's what makes keeping Emery on even more nonsensical, we need to qualify for the CL or it will really affect us financially due to these deals we deferred paying until the coming seasons.

I'm not sure we can't afford a top manager however, Wenger himself was on big bucks, I think it's more that we don't want someone who may question our methods and make it too hard for the guys above and if you look at the guys we're linked with they all appear to be exactly that.

I'm not entirely against a younger manager if that's the only option to replace Emery, but for me it would be someone who has at least proven to be half decent, someone who has managed, Vieira for example, not someone like Arteta who it totally unproven and whose only qualifications is hearsay from some of his friends.

Mate, I don't think you'll find anyone who doesn't agree that keeping Emery on is nonsensical! The only reason I can think of that he's still here is that we don't have a suitable replacement lined up, or even a caretaker ready to step in. Beyond that, I really can't see what anyone at the club thinks is going to be gained by delaying the call? I've literally never seen any coach turn things around when they're this far gone.

When I say we can't afford one of the top managers, I meant that I don't think we'd have the funds to back their plans in any significant way right now. Which I think might be the same thing that you're getting at when you suggest that we don't want anyone who will start making a lot of big demands of the guys upstairs? I guess there are a couple of assets there that we could sell to fund a modest rebuild, but mostly I think we'll be pitching this as a 'work with what we have' type gig (at least to start with), which probably isn't going to appeal to anyone of a certain calibre.

Who knows though? Maybe we'll get lucky and find someone who's up for the challenge, and wants the glory of being the one to finally solve the Arsenal riddle.

[Özim]

Mate, I don't think you'll find anyone who doesn't agree that keeping Emery on is nonsensical! The only reason I can think of that he's still here is that we don't have a suitable replacement lined up, or even a caretaker ready to step in. Beyond that, I really can't see what anyone at the club thinks is going to be gained by delaying the call? I've literally never seen any coach turn things around when they're this far gone.

When I say we can't afford one of the top managers, I meant that I don't think we'd have the funds to back their plans in any significant way right now. Which I think might be the same thing that you're getting at when you suggest that we don't want anyone who will start making a lot of big demands of the guys upstairs? I guess there are a couple of assets there that we could sell to fund a modest rebuild, but mostly I think we'll be pitching this as a 'work with what we have' type gig (at least to start with), which probably isn't going to appeal to anyone of a certain calibre.

Who knows though? Maybe we'll get lucky and find someone who's up for the challenge, and wants the glory of being the one to finally solve the Arsenal riddle.

It took Spurs 12 hours to find a replacement for Pochettino, they sacked him and replaced him in the morning, it seems to me the problem with Arsenal is that they are so slow at doing anything (remember the transfer sagas that went on for months and how long we took to get rid of Wenger), that by the time they do the ship has sailed and they are left behind. Why is it always this club that can't do this and can't do that, why do we always have to watch other clubs gettingtheir business done with minimum fuss whilst we just drag it out a ridiculous amount of time. Emery shouldn't even have made it to this season after last seasons collapse, but given that he did he should have been sacked and replaced several weeks ago now, we had an International breakample time to find a replacement.

At the end of the day we're a big club, we should have no problem attracting a decent manager if we really want one, unfortunately what we seem to want is to pay peanuts so we can maximise our profits, it's a false economy of course as that usually leads to lack of success on the pitch and less money, for years we've been cutting corners for once I wish we would do things properly like other clubs.

I look at Spurs and see that they sacked a manager who took them to the CL final last season, has been qualifying for the CL every season and generally progressed the club, it didn't take them long, they acted whilst there was time to recover and brought in a guy who some may not like but let's be honest is a winner, so far it's worked out well for them, it'll probably also mean they'll be able to attract better quality signings as Mourinho is certainly an inspirational manager for a lot of players, they look at his past record of success and see someone who is a winner and brings success, this isn't good news for us to be honest and I'm amazed people were happy to see him go there, I was hoping they'd appoint some 2nd rate manager like we invariably will.

[Mac76]

Once again, the answer's Freddie as caretaker then appoint someone new once we've found someone we are really happy with.

Allegri's out for me as we can't have another manager who can't speak English and am still not sure about Arteta.

Or if Freddie's really good we appoint him full-time, but only after the season's ended.

[IBK]

It took Spurs 12 hours to find a replacement for Pochettino, they sacked him and replaced him in the morning, it seems to me the problem with Arsenal is that they are so slow at doing anything (remember the transfer sagas that went on for months and how long we took to get rid of Wenger), that by the time they do the ship has sailed and they are left behind. Why is it always this club that can't do this and can't do that, why do we always have to watch other clubs gettingtheir business done with minimum fuss whilst we just drag it out a ridiculous amount of time. Emery shouldn't even have made it to this season after last seasons collapse, but given that he did he should have been sacked and replaced several weeks ago now, we had an International breakample time to find a replacement.

At the end of the day we're a big club, we should have no problem attracting a decent manager if we really want one, unfortunately what we seem to want is to pay peanuts so we can maximise our profits, it's a false economy of course as that usually leads to lack of success on the pitch and less money, for years we've been cutting corners for once I wish we would do things properly like other clubs.

I look at Spurs and see that they sacked a manager who took them to the CL final last season, has been qualifying for the CL every season and generally progressed the club, it didn't take them long, they acted whilst there was time to recover and brought in a guy who some may not like but let's be honest is a winner, so far it's worked out well for them, it'll probably also mean they'll be able to attract better quality signings as Mourinho is certainly an inspirational manager for a lot of players, they look at his past record of success and see someone who is a winner and brings success, this isn't good news for us to be honest and I'm amazed people were happy to see him go there, I was hoping they'd appoint some 2nd rate manager like we invariably will.

In fairness, while I agree with you re Spurs, and applaud them for making a quick and decisive decision, I think that this was made because Mourinho was available and not independently of it. It was made also because Spurs have a massive stadium debt to pay off, and cannot afford not to finish out of the top 4 this season. It is a gamble that could yet go wrong if their new manager loses the plot like he did at Manure, but I can see the logic of his appointment and am nervous about what he will achieve for them this season, even thiough personally I would not have him at our club.

I do agree with IAI's posts above, though. As I've explained, I don't think the board did too much wrong in appointing Emery in the first place, and them backing him with player aquisitions in the Summer. It hasn't worked out, but hindsight is a wonderful thing, and as IAI says, we are where we are - with a mess that has many aspects, not all of which are instantly solveable - or at least not with the money likely to be available to the club after a few years out of the CL. It's easy to speculate about what Arsenal should be doing in theory, and legitimate I suppose to complain that we aren't opening the cash floodgates to spend our way out of trouble, but we HAVE spent on players and wages recently, and look how that has worked out. We can look at other clubs, but I think the reality is that some decisions - both player wise and manager wise have worked, and an equal proportion of decisions have not. That is football.

I continue to feel that some of our woes can be addressed if Emery is replaced sensibly and straight away without breaking the bank for an illustrious name as manager. I would even accept Freddie as caretaker if he can get his licence. After that I would be content to wait and see what happens, because the realistic alternative is that Emery stays and runs our club into the ground.

[I am invisible]

Once again, the answer's Freddie as caretaker then appoint someone new once we've found someone we are really happy with.

Allegri's out for me as we can't have another manager who can't speak English and am still not sure about Arteta.

Or if Freddie's really good we appoint him full-time, but only after the season's ended.

Freddie might not be an option - doesn't have his full Uefa licence yet, so he'd only be allowed to do the job for a maximum of 3 months.

[fakeyank]

It took Spurs 12 hours to find a replacement for Pochettino, they sacked him and replaced him in the morning, it seems to me the problem with Arsenal is that they are so slow at doing anything (remember the transfer sagas that went on for months and how long we took to get rid of Wenger), that by the time they do the ship has sailed and they are left behind. Why is it always this club that can't do this and can't do that, why do we always have to watch other clubs gettingtheir business done with minimum fuss whilst we just drag it out a ridiculous amount of time. Emery shouldn't even have made it to this season after last seasons collapse, but given that he did he should have been sacked and replaced several weeks ago now, we had an International breakample time to find a replacement.

At the end of the day we're a big club, we should have no problem attracting a decent manager if we really want one, unfortunately what we seem to want is to pay peanuts so we can maximise our profits, it's a false economy of course as that usually leads to lack of success on the pitch and less money, for years we've been cutting corners for once I wish we would do things properly like other clubs.

I look at Spurs and see that they sacked a manager who took them to the CL final last season, has been qualifying for the CL every season and generally progressed the club, it didn't take them long, they acted whilst there was time to recover and brought in a guy who some may not like but let's be honest is a winner, so far it's worked out well for them, it'll probably also mean they'll be able to attract better quality signings as Mourinho is certainly an inspirational manager for a lot of players, they look at his past record of success and see someone who is a winner and brings success, this isn't good news for us to be honest and I'm amazed people were happy to see him go there, I was hoping they'd appoint some 2nd rate manager like we invariably will.

:gp:

The biggest evidence of a club that wants to make progress to me is Leicester City. They sacked Nigel Pearson despite them escaping relegation and then sacked Ranieri after he won them the PL title!!! They didnt then just sit there.. they appointed 5 other managers before they landed on Rodgers. If it doesnt work, move on.

We on the other hand cant tell our ass from our elbows and are constantly lumbering around with dead beat managers well beyond their expiration date.

[Bumble]

Benitez... done the job before... won the CL and EL. the Chinese league season finishes end of this week.

He would get the team organised and improve us defensively and who says not make us more competitive and consistent even if its a 18 month contract

[I am invisible]

:gp:

The biggest evidence of a club that wants to make progress to me is Leicester City. They sacked Nigel Pearson despite them escaping relegation and then sacked Ranieri after he won them the PL title!!! They didnt then just sit there.. they appointed 5 other managers before they landed on Rodgers. If it doesnt work, move on.

We on the other hand cant tell our ass from our elbows and are constantly lumbering around with dead beat managers well beyond their expiration date.

Leicester are actually a great example of what we should be aiming for. Nothing they're doing there is über-expensive or unachievable - it's just smart. Everything they're doing is smart.

Also worth noting with Leicester that it's not just about the decisive choices that they've made with managers - like Liverpool, they also haven't been afraid to sell on key assets and reinvest the money back into the squad to keep it evolving.

[Özim]

Also worth noting with Leicester that it's not just about the decisive choices that they've made with managers - like Liverpool, they also haven't been afraid to sell on key assets and reinvest the money back into the squad to keep it evolving.

Yes the trouble is we're terrible at that too, often letting our most valuable assets run down their contracts and losing them for a cut price fee or worse nothing. We've got two more of our biggest asset who will have one year left come the summer, so it seems to be happening all over again, we never learn, yet oddly we decided to offer new contracts to Xhaka a player with no real world value in the transfer market.

[Özim]

:gp:

The biggest evidence of a club that wants to make progress to me is Leicester City. They sacked Nigel Pearson despite them escaping relegation and then sacked Ranieri after he won them the PL title!!! They didnt then just sit there.. they appointed 5 other managers before they landed on Rodgers. If it doesnt work, move on.

We on the other hand cant tell our ass from our elbows and are constantly lumbering around with dead beat managers well beyond their expiration date.

Totally agree and we're so slow to do anything, we just sit there and watch the world go by and miss opportunity after opportunity to get a decent manager in, again with Emery we're just blindly sticking with him hoping for some kind of miraculous turn around that isn't going to happen, because let's be honest here the guy doesn't have a clue.

I'm pretty shocked that in 18 months of learning English this hasn't really improved, I'm not against a manager that doesn't speak English as long as they are capable of learning it, isn't that what Conte did at Chelsea.

[Globalgunner]

The difference is that the owner of Leicester is aspirational. He bought the club with ambitions. He isnt like Kroenke who is all business. The Thai guys want to box well above their weight. Not Mike Ashley who wants to get by with as little investment as possible. Just staying in the EPL gives you bounteous financial rewards if you dont go spending recklesly. Kroenke will only act if his bottom line is being affected. He isnt in it for the glory, Thats why a docile fanbase like ours is just perfect. Left to Kroenke. top half every year is just fine. Spurs need CL money. They are screwed without it. thats why they just had to act.

[Mac76]

Freddie might not be an option - doesn't have his full Uefa licence yet, so he'd only be allowed to do the job for a maximum of 3 months.

ah, didn't know that... :(

[Mac76]

Benitez... done the job before... won the CL and EL. the Chinese league season finishes end of this week.


that's interesting - can we hope that's what the Board have been waiting for...? :pray:

[IBK]

:gp:

The biggest evidence of a club that wants to make progress to me is Leicester City. They sacked Nigel Pearson despite them escaping relegation and then sacked Ranieri after he won them the PL title!!! They didnt then just sit there.. they appointed 5 other managers before they landed on Rodgers. If it doesnt work, move on.

We on the other hand cant tell our ass from our elbows and are constantly lumbering around with dead beat managers well beyond their expiration date.

Agreed that Leicester have been smart. More importantly perhaps they have fostered a spirit of togetherness and optimism that we haven't had at Arsenal for years. Time and time again it has been proven that a club where all the parts are moving as one will have success on the pitch.

If we are being fair, however, we have to remember that Leicester are a smaller club punching above their weight, and the pressure on them is so much lower than at our club. A success story like Leicester is a rarity rather than the norm. If we want to look at traditionally bigger clubs we need to consider the shambles at Manure; Everton; West Ham and even until recently Spurs (won nothing, still below us in the league) for some balance, and an indication of how difficult it is to get things right. Let's not forget that Rogers was mooted by some for the Arsenal job before Emery was appointed and if IIRC the the idea received a lukewarm reception, at least on here. its easy to be wise after the event. Remember that he ultimately fell short at Liverpool. There is a goldilocks aspect to football management, and maybe Leicester are more suited to his management than a bigger club?

Should we aspire to the progress made by Leicester? Of course. But as you say, they have been through a lot of managers, and each time that happens there is a risk that things will blow up. I'm not as critical of Arsenal's choices until the last few weeks as most, but feel that real criticism will apply if the club does not take decisive action now. It was almost unprecedented having to deal with the end of the Wenger dynasty (the only parallel was Manure and look at how that turned out despite the vast sums spent there), and trying to take a measured view, I feel that some of the accusations leveled at our club hierarchy border on the unfair.

If we don't do anything about our present clusterfuck however, my 'defence' of the club will evaporate.

[I am invisible]

Yes the trouble is we're terrible at that too, often letting our most valuable assets run down their contracts and losing them for a cut price fee or worse nothing. We've got two more of our biggest asset who will have one year left come the summer, so it seems to be happening all over again, we never learn, yet oddly we decided to offer new contracts to Xhaka a player with no real world value in the transfer market.

Yeah, I agree. We've let this weird mentality btake root at the club where we seem to think that being a big club means clinging on to our best players for dear life, and I think it often either paralyses us into indecision or pushes us to make desperate offers. For me, being a big club should be the exact opposite of that - we should be able to move any player on at any moment and not even break stride. And it should always be on our terms.

[IBK]

Yeah, I agree. We've let this weird mentality btake root at the club where we seem to think that being a big club means clinging on to our best players for dear life, and I think it often either paralyses us into indecision or pushes us to make desperate offers. For me, being a big club should be the exact opposite of that - we should be able to move any player on at any moment and not even break stride. And it should always be on our terms.

I agree with you. At Arsenal I think that this mentality has arisen out of a feeling that we cannot compete finacially for the very best, proven players and therefore an innate nervousness about whether the lower tier players that we can attract will measure up. The irony is that our wage bill (partly as a result of our approach) is the fourth (?) highest in the league :yikes:

[I am invisible]

Agreed that Leicester have been smart. More importantly perhaps they have fostered a spirit of togetherness and optimism that we haven't had at Arsenal for years. Time and time again it has been proven that a club where all the parts are moving as one will have success on the pitch.

If we are being fair, however, we have to remember that Leicester are a smaller club punching above their weight, and the pressure on them is so much lower than at our club. A success story like Leicester is a rarity rather than the norm. If we want to look at traditionally bigger clubs we need to consider the shambles at Manure; Everton; West Ham and even until recently Spurs (won nothing, still below us in the league) for some balance, and an indication of how difficult it is to get things right. Let's not forget that Rogers was mooted by some for the Arsenal job before Emery was appointed and if IIRC the the idea received a lukewarm reception, at least on here. its easy to be wise after the event. Remember that he ultimately fell short at Liverpool. There is a goldilocks aspect to football management, and maybe Leicester are more suited to his management than a bigger club?

Should we aspire to the progress made by Leicester? Of course. But as you say, they have been through a lot of managers, and each time that happens there is a risk that things will blow up. I'm not as critical of Arsenal's choices until the last few weeks as most, but feel that real criticism will apply if the club does not take decisive action now. It was almost unprecedented having to deal with the end of the Wenger dynasty (the only parallel was Manure and look at how that turned out despite the vast sums spent there), and trying to take a measured view, I feel that some of the accusations leveled at our club hierarchy border on the unfair.

If we don't do anything about our present clusterfuck however, my 'defence' of the club will evaporate.
:good:

Perhaps my biggest concern for Arsenal right now is the constant, pervasive anxiety I sense emanating from every section of the club about making it into the CL spots each year, and the pressure that it's putting us under. Let's be clear, that pressure isn't come from pride or ambition, which I'd be absolutely fine with - it's coming from fear of financial repercussions. Quite simply, we're living beyond our means right now, and the decisions we've been making are starting to look like they’re increasingly being driven by panic and desperation (e.g. handing out contracts that we can't afford because we're afraid to lose players, taking the safe option with Emery when we might have gone with a bolder choice, blowing next year's budget on trying to make it into the CL this year, etc).

I'm almost at the point now where I think we might need to strip this squad back to the younger players and anyone on less than 100k/wk, so we can lose that financial millstone that's hanging round our necks and reset. Give ourselves a bit of room to breath so we can start to make smart, considered, progressive choices again, and get back to a place where we want to be amongst the best, but where we don't necessarily have to be in order to keep the place running.

I don't think the manager merry-go-round should phase anyone - that's just how the process is for everyone these days. As you say, whether they realise it or not, all clubs are looking for that 'Goldilocks' candidate that is just right for them, and that is always going to involve an element of trial and error. Clubs like Leicester are still more than capable of making the poor hires, as they've shown, but where they're getting it right, and where we're getting it wrong, is that they are far more decisive about moving the wrong people on when it's not working out.

[I am invisible]

I agree with you. At Arsenal I think that this mentality has arisen out of a feeling that we cannot compete finacially for the very best, proven players and therefore an innate nervousness about whether the lower tier players that we can attract will measure up. The irony is that our wage bill (partly as a result of our approach) is the fourth (?) highest in the league :yikes:

Absolutely! The idea that we can't compete is nonsense. Even without CL income or Stan's input, there's options there for us with the assets we have - we've just lost our bottle.

20 years ago we didn't bat an eyelid at breaking up a double-winning side to rebuild - we sold Anelka, Overmars and Petit in quick succession and then went out and brought in Henry, Pires, Ljungberg and Gilberto. And turned a profit! Liverpool and Leicester have done exactly the same in recent years. For me, a big club mentality is feeling comfortable in selling Suarez, Sterling and Coutinho because you know you can bring in Salah, Mane and Firmino and they'll work. It's being comfortable selling Kante and Mahrez and reinvesting in Ndidi, Maddison, Tielemans, Soyuncu, etc. Question is, do we have anyone left at our club with the nerve (and the competence) to do something similar?

[rodders]

Things will never change until we get an owner who understands and cares

[Bumble]

the board are going to meet today..... emery is going to go #fingerscrossed

[GP]

Emery is gone!

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/01/02/British-comedian-Dick-Emery-dead-at-65/1970410331600/

[Letters]

GP... <_<

:wwf:

[Gooner23]

Ornstein saying its likely to happen today now. :pray:

[Marc Overmars]

Been refreshing BBC and Sky Sports constantly just waiting for the news...:pray:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

And now he is.

https://www.arsenal.com/news/unai-emery-leaves-club

[Gooner23]

Confirmed. Weeks too late but thank god its happened.

[Letters]

:wave:

#WengerIn!

[Bumble]

:wave:

#WengerIn!

Rioch

[Letters]

Confirmed. Weeks too late but thank god its happened.

Maybe, but at least it's weeks too late not months or years. Good sign that the board aren't going to mess around any more.

[Marc Overmars]

Thank god.

He was bloody dreadful. Nice guy and not suddenly bad coach overnight but he wasn’t even close to being a good fit for us.

Emery. :wave:

Now, who’s next...:popcorn:

[GP]

#RafaIn

[Marc Overmars]

Freddie’s at the wheel. :bow:

Let’s hope his car is better than whatever the fuck Ole is driving.

[Letters]

Rioch

Rioch was much less rubbish than some people give him credit for.

[Özim]

At last, we've finally got rid of him, took us long enough, should be the end of Xhaka too who should have never played last night.

Hopefully we find someone decent this time and don't do ouur usual and look for the cheap option.

[Mac76]

Thank god he's gone :dance:

Now let's get playing some decent football and make the best of a good squad - pity our next game isn't at home but hopefully Freddie can get a decent performance out of them at Norwich

[Özim]

Hopefully we get a new manager in soon, don't want to deliberate too much about it.

[Özim]

Rioch was much less rubbish than some people give him credit for.

He got the sack unfairly to be honest, he brought Bergkamp and Platt in and almost got Juninho (what a player he turned out to be). Thought he did a decent job and didn't deserve to be sacked at the time.

[Letters]

He got the sack unfairly to be honest, he brought Bergkamp and Platt in and almost got Juninho (what a player he turned out to be). Thought he did a decent job and didn't deserve to be sacked at the time.

:o Weirdly, I agree with you for once.
I think we treated him pretty poorly, he was used as a stopgap between Graham and Wenger. He did pretty well although he wouldn't have taken us to the places Wenger took us to.

[Mac76]

What do we think of the Santo idea?

He's obviously good but is he good enough for Arsenal?

[Letters]

https://i.ibb.co/s2MtZwr/Ozil-Emery.jpg

[Marc Overmars]

What do we think of the Santo idea?

He's obviously good but is he good enough for Arsenal?

Not totally against the idea but it turns out he could be part of Raul’s inner circle of cronies.

[Bumble]

Rioch was much less rubbish than some people give him credit for.

he brought in Bergkamp which gets a lot of brownie points.

[Bumble]

Hopefully we get a new manager in soon, don't want to deliberate too much about it.

why though? why not take our time over the next replacement... you never know Freddie might give the players a bit of result bounce to see us over the next few fixtures.

[Bumble]

What do we think of the Santo idea?

He's obviously good but is he good enough for Arsenal?

Wolves are backed by a big Chinese company I think... he has done very well at Wolves but less well at Valencia and Porto I think. sometimes managers fit a club perfectly and cant do it elsewhere.

if anyone could do a better job than Wenger surely even more can do a better job than Emery :whistle:

[GP]

he brought in Bergkamp which gets a lot of brownie points.

David Dein brought in Bergkamp.

[GP]

:o Weirdly, I agree with you for once.
I think we treated him pretty poorly, he was used as a stopgap between Graham and Wenger. He did pretty well although he wouldn't have taken us to the places Wenger took us to.

That's the crux of it. He was a stopgap. Was it unfair on him? Possibly, but it was undoubtedly the correct decision.

[dostoy]

I'm surprised Emery was not given a new 2 year deal.

That is what they have done before with useless managers.

Emery should have gone a few weeks ago.

Who is next I wonder ?

They will be trying to go for 3 idiots in a row.

[Gooner23]

Apparently Freddie does have his pro license so no issues with him taking temporary charge.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Our improvement last night wasn't enough to save him.

Make a prediction when we'll have a new coach installed.

Me? May 2020. :lol:

[Özim]

why though? why not take our time over the next replacement... you never know Freddie might give the players a bit of result bounce to see us over the next few fixtures.

A few reasons really, firstly it will give him time to work with the squad and workout what he'll need in the summer, secondly he may be able to get us back into CL contention at this stage, even though we're a fair way behind.

Also Ljungberg was a great player, but it totally unproven and I'm not sure I want us to go that route to be honest, think we need someone tougher to get the players motivated and into line, we've had too soft an approach for too long.

Also worried Ljungberg may be friendly with Xhaka and may re-introduce him, like Emery did.

[I am invisible]

What do we think of the Santo idea?

He's obviously good but is he good enough for Arsenal?


Not totally against the idea but it turns out he could be part of Raul’s inner circle of cronies.

I've gone off the idea because of those links to Mendes - immediately makes me think that Raul's given it no thought.

[Gooner23]

Yeah theres a long article by Le Grove on that, makes quite interesting reading. If you look at his managerial career it's been mostly average. I'd be pretty underwhelmed if he was signed, and fearing Emery 2.0.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

It's great the deed has finally been done, I inadvertently hugged a colleague once I saw the news and it looked like l just won the lottery.

I have been quiet for a while because I'm totally depressed about this club and leaving it this late hasn't reassured me that the people running the club know what they are doing. So honestly, I think think they'll still get it wrong with the next manager.

Anyway, I always wanted a defensive minded manager to be AW's replacement, because I do think being solid and building from back is the only way you can sustain success in this league. Mourinho is already gone and doing well so far. Simeone my top choice, still hasn't shown any sign of wanting to leave. On the other hand, I like the idea of Santo and Rodgers but I'm certain it won't happen.

All I hope is they think carefully and take their time since the stellar choices, Enrique and Mourinho are off the market due to their dithering.

I've given up on this season and just hope Freddie is able to stop the rot. I also hope Vieira's results improve so he can also be in the running.

I'm a bit more optimistic but I do think our fate was sealed the day we fully sold our club to the souless Yank, our worst decision ever!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

If we at least hire somebody that has a good, solid knowledge of PL football and a willingness to focus on the basics it will speed along the day when we re-emerge as a viable football team. That's not going to be for a long, long time though. And chances are every single player on the roster now will be gone. Is Rafa available? He'd do a job, set us on the right track. Hell, is George Graham still up for it? Needs to be a PL man who speaks English. Obviously.

This is the lowest point I can recall at the club. Even in the final days of Terry Neill we were at least a football club at the core, with real football fans instead of the entitled hit mob we have today. They boo their captain, hound out their manager, demand CL football from a mid-table team and beat the badge while conveniently forgetting how many of them defended Wenger year after year when this catastrophic damage was being done. I wonder how long the next guy gets before it all starts up again? He'd better be in the coveted, sanctified "Top 4" trophy spot by the end of the season or he's gone too. Arsenal fans need to get some understanding about what it's like to be a West Ham fan, or a Wolves fan, or any other mid-table fans and then set their expectations and demands accordingly. Start small but always make progress. It would be nice to see some controlled, basic, PL football again. Instead of this arrogant, unwarranted, comical impersonation of top flight teams.

You have to wonder what they saw in Emery when they appointed him? Surely it didn't just come down to a decent Powerpoint presentation? Or was it worse than that? Did they see a Europa Cup expert and settle for that? The question being, are they in any way qualified to find a suitable manager for the club? Or will it be a game of roulette and crossed fingers? Because, if we're in the mood for firing, maybe others should be heading for the door too?

[Letters]

In what sense are we a mid-table team? Wenger's last season was the only year we've been far from the top 4, in his penultimate season and in last season we were a point or two away and way above the middle of the table.

[Özim]

I just don't think Emery was convincing at any point with us, before he arrived I preferred him to Arteta and I thought PSG actually played decent football under him (turns out it was the players not him) and you can to give him the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately it was clear from quite early on he was having much impact, in the unbeaten run we put together we really weren't convincing at all and our playing from the back clearly wasn't working.

His insistence on playing Xhaka and then shocklngly making him captain showed how poor a judge of a players ability and competence he was, his first season wasn't impressive, even before the calamitous collapse.

As for the signings, I'm not sure if it was him or not, but Sokratis, Lichsteiner were poor signings, too old and players that would need replacing in not time, last summer was better except for the fact we didn't sign a decent CB (well we did but then loaned him back) and instead brought in Luiz who has always been a liability at CB. Add to that the fact he insisted like his predecessor to play players in the wrong postions and the fact the team had no identity and the tactics were poor and you can see it wasn't going to work.

We should have ended his stay last summer really, because for me his 1st season really didn't give us much to be optimistic about.

I just hope that now we do a proper job and identify decent candidates (not people like Arteta), who have experience and have a plan for their teams, problem is with this club you can't trust them, their decisions seem to be mainly driven by financial motives and not success on the pitch. The truth is we need a strong manager like an Allegri or Simeone, I even think Rogers is a good shout as all his teams play decent football and are setup well, we may end up with another nobody however, if we are a big club and not simply there to make up the numbers it's time we showed it with some ambition and brought in a coach who only goal isn't just getting into the top 4.

[dostoy]

Reslistically, who will the next manager be ?

I cannot see Rodgers leaving Leicester.

[Marc Overmars]

With the power of hindsight, he should have been sacked after Baku. From the position we were in with 7 or 8 games to go last season, it was a travesty to miss out in the way we did. The season so far is just a continuation of around 20-25 games were we've just been atrocious.

He started well enough but even during that 22 game unbeaten run the team still had little shape to it, goals were still being conceded and in some cases we were lucky to turn games around thanks to some individual brilliance.

He was just awful for us and even managed to do the unthinkable and make our defence worse than it already was! What a waste of 18 months.

[Mac76]

Yeah theres a long article by Le Grove on that, makes quite interesting reading. If you look at his managerial career it's been mostly average. I'd be pretty underwhelmed if he was signed, and fearing Emery 2.0.

yeah i feel the same and instead of someone like Howe or Santo i'd rather have Freddie as caretaker and just see if he manages to make if fly, otherwise we get a bigger name in

Freddie knows the youth players and can hit the ground running

[Marc Overmars]

NES, Allegri, Arteta and Rogers are heading up the shortlist apparently.

Got reservations about the lot of them really but I suppose there isn't going to be one outstanding candidate that everyone thinks would nail it.

[Niall_Quinn]

yeah i feel the same and instead of someone like Howe or Santo i'd rather have Freddie as caretaker and just see if he manages to make if fly, otherwise we get a bigger name in

Freddie knows the youth players and can hit the ground running

Sort of feel the same, with one reservation. I'd hate to see the fans turn on him and hound him if he doesn't win the CL in his first match in charge.

[Marc Overmars]

I don't think the fans would turn on Freddie. All the anger will now be directed at those who are running the club.

Much like it is for OGS at United who doesn't have a word said against him by anyone - it is all on the board.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think the fans would turn on Freddie. All the anger will now be directed at those who are running the club.

Much like it is for OGS at United who doesn't have a word said against him by anyone - it is all on the board.

Just think back on the goodwill for Emery (from most fans) and compare it to now. And being in the background is very different to being out front. A few bad substitutions, a few unpopular team selections. Things can change fast. One thing in his favour, he's already bald so he won't have to worry about that.

Arteta, Freddie, either work for me because I think they'd have to focus on the basics instead of engaging in grand plans that only ever materialise in Powerpoint presentations. They'd be learning too, so they'd have to keep it simple. Both have had exposure to coaching but they've been able to stand at the back when the missiles are flying in. They'd be as good as absolute beginners.

[Marc Overmars]

Emery had the goodwill because he hadn't been fully backed financially and he was dealing with "Wenger's squad" last year.

Those excuses went and he was exposed. Fair game really.

[Mac76]

Reslistically, who will the next manager be ?

I cannot see Rodgers leaving Leicester.

me neither and i still don't want him anyway, or Ponce either

[hobson's choice]

Please no Allegri

Bring in Arteta, I really believe he understands what needs to be done at this club on the football side.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Please no Allegri

Bring in Arteta, I really believe he understands what needs to be done at this club on the football side.

I thought you didn't want Raul's Spanish takeover. :blink:

[Özim]

I just don't get the clamour for Arteta, he's never managed, was probably one of the worst captains we had and a very average player for us, he was also part of a time when we bottled it regularly, so what that's he's been working at Man City as assistant manager, it's a completely different role and doesn't qualify him to be manager in any way.

He's be a complete novice, his first job should be at some lower league team, like Lampard for example, not a big club.

He's the reason I wanted Emery in the first place, because this guy was the alternative. No thanks, let him go and manage Aldershot FC or something like most first time managers.

[Özim]

Please no Allegri

Bring in Arteta, I really believe he understands what needs to be done at this club on the football side.

You don't want Allegri a proven winner who made Juve CL challengers again, but want a guy with no management experience who was an average captain and very forgettable player for us?

[Globalgunner]

It shows you how inconsequential football really is in peoples minds despite all the fervour they display

If someone needed a heart transplant would you want? The doctor who has done it 50 times before or the best graduating student from med school?

Director of a nuclear power plant: PHD who is just about to retire from CERN or the 18 yr old with 3 A`s from high school.

Engineer designing your highway: Certified engineer or kid with an app on his phone.

When Arteta tanks, they'll say it was a bold choice. Lets move on to the next manager.

[rodders]

The sad truth is that most existing managers probably feel they are better off where they are.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

It shows you how inconsequential football really is in peoples minds despite all the fervour they display

If someone needed a heart transplant would you want? The doctor who has done it 50 times before or the best graduating student from med school?

Director of a nuclear power plant: PHD who is just about to retire from CERN or the 18 yr old with 3 A`s from high school.

Engineer designing your highway: Certified engineer or kid with an app on his phone.

When Arteta tanks, they'll say it was a bold choice. Lets move on to the next manager.

I get the comparisons but football is so much more emotive than any of those listed, apart from the overall aspect of being a doctor, of course.. Employing Wenger wasn't the safe choice all those years ago, yes it ended badly eventually but it unlocked a different way of thinking for the players that were at the club.

Arteta might not be the right man but if it ended up being him, I'd give props to the board for taking a chance.

Emery had the better record, the better presentation for the decision makers but ultimately he lacked a way of either inspiring the players to play in a certain mould or couldn't quite decide whatever he wanted.

[I am invisible]

Sort of feel the same, with one reservation. I'd hate to see the fans turn on him and hound him if he doesn't win the CL in his first match in charge.
Yeah, I agree. I think we should make it clear that he’s not being considered for the job full time, and that he’s basically stepping up to help because the club need him to. We can change our mind about that at any point if he turns out to be the next Pep, but for now let’s not say it out loud - keep the pressure off and the keep supporters behind him.

[I am invisible]

...Freddie knows the youth players and can hit the ground running

I’ve got to say, I’m pinning a lot of hopes on this right now. My faith in almost all of the more “experienced” members of the side is completely gone, and I’m really not seeing too many other options for us than turning to the younger players - hopefully our former u23 coach will be a good choice for what we have to work with at the moment...

[Özim]

I get the comparisons but football is so much more emotive than any of those listed, apart from the overall aspect of being a doctor, of course.. Employing Wenger wasn't the safe choice all those years ago, yes it ended badly eventually but it unlocked a different way of thinking for the players that were at the club.

Arteta might not be the right man but if it ended up being him, I'd give props to the board for taking a chance.

Emery had the better record, the better presentation for the decision makers but ultimately he lacked a way of either inspiring the players to play in a certain mould or couldn't quite decide whatever he wanted.

Employing Wenger worked initially, but the guy had a massive advantage of knowing all the best players in French football at a time when the golden generation was coming through, that advantage no longer exists, we all saw how it went from 2006 onwards, not well.

What does Arteta have that makes him a decent candidate, what evidence is there he'd be a good manager, at least Wenger had managed before and achieved something, players with no management experience have no place managing a top club as their 1st experience of management, it would be a complete gamble based on no evidence he would be any good, if they do choose him, it would once again prove how incompetent these people are and how small time we are, not even good enough to attract a decent manager who has actually managed.

IMO Arteta is a prime candidate to flop, reason being he's been overhyped before he's achieved anything and that usually doesn't end well, this isn't the time to gamble on some nobody, it's time to get someone in who's been tested.

[Master Splinter]

Does the New Manager Bounce work with a temp?

It's hard to get excited about anything related to the club at the moment. Even just some evidence of the application of a working football philosophy under Ljunberg will be a positive.

[LDG]

Employing Wenger worked initially, but the guy had a massive advantage of knowing all the best players in French football at a time when the golden generation was coming through, that advantage no longer exists, we all saw how it went from 2006 onwards, not well.

What does Arteta have that makes him a decent candidate, what evidence is there he'd be a good manager, at least Wenger had managed before and achieved something, players with no management experience have no place managing a top club as their 1st experience of management, it would be a complete gamble based on no evidence he would be any good, if they do choose him, it would once again prove how incompetent these people are and how small time we are, not even good enough to attract a decent manager who has actually managed.

IMO Arteta is a prime candidate to flop, reason being he's been overhyped before he's achieved anything and that usually doesn't end well, this isn't the time to gamble on some nobody, it's time to get someone in who's been tested.

Who are your candidates?

[Penguin]

I don't understand what this obsession is with Arteta. The guy has never managed a club. Ever. That alone should be reason not to touch him with a barge pole.

[Niall_Quinn]

I just don't get the clamour for Arteta, he's never managed, was probably one of the worst captains we had and a very average player for us, he was also part of a time when we bottled it regularly, so what that's he's been working at Man City as assistant manager, it's a completely different role and doesn't qualify him to be manager in any way.

He's be a complete novice, his first job should be at some lower league team, like Lampard for example, not a big club.

He's the reason I wanted Emery in the first place, because this guy was the alternative. No thanks, let him go and manage Aldershot FC or something like most first time managers.

We need a completely fresh start, a reboot beginning with the most basics of basic. I don't think the majority of fans realise how much Wenger took from this club. The team has to be rebuilt as a competitive sporting unit from the ground up. As I said before, it doesn't really matter who we get provided they are laser focused on the absolute basics. I can see fans thinking we'll bring in Mr X and suddenly 10 years of catastrophic mismanagement will just be washed away. Well I hope there's a magician like that out there and he wants to come to Arsenal. But assuming there's not...

[Mac76]

Article on Freddie

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50606066

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

With the power of hindsight, he should have been sacked after Baku. From the position we were in with 7 or 8 games to go last season, it was a travesty to miss out in the way we did. The season so far is just a continuation of around 20-25 games were we've just been atrocious.

He started well enough but even during that 22 game unbeaten run the team still had little shape to it, goals were still being conceded and in some cases we were lucky to turn games around thanks to some individual brilliance.

He was just awful for us and even managed to do the unthinkable and make our defence worse than it already was! What a waste of 18 months.

I agree with everything you said except the power of hindsight bit.

The truth is if you had a Dein, Levy, Perez or the kind of setup they've got in Bayern running this club, Emery could plausibily have lost his job last season, immediately after the EL final.

I really do think that this Emery saga should prove to every Arsenal fan that just worrying about the manager and development of young players shouldn't be foremost in our mind. How many of us cared about the experience or the antecedents of Gazidis, Raul and all the other idiots that have run the club since the old Etonians effectively pushed Dein out? Silly decision after silly decision has been made since that fateful day and we continue to reap the effects of pushing out a true football man for corporate scientific charlatans.

We the fans need to focus our energies and do something about this board no matter how little. We're in the same hole as Man U, but we're worse off because we've got less money and no legends able to exert influence like they do. Their has to be some way we get some Arsenal DNA back at the top?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/11873409/how-unai-emery-was-sacked-writing-on-the-wall-after-us-meeting

Proves what I've been saying about leadership, the silly Yank still needed to be convinced despite the fact all football fans in the country knew Emery was a lost cause. Obviously his bottom line wasn't affected so that must have slowed his thought process.

Also confirms the semi- football people wanted Mourinho and an interesting bit about Allegri expecting us to beg him to manage us. That instantly takes him off the list for me, anyone who feels entitled can sod off.

[dazthegooner]

Did we really want Mourinho? so waited till he took over another club before we sacked Emery so him not being in the running? (me just hoping) I wouldn't have ever wanted him in charge of our club oh and the last time we rejected someone because of his demands (I think) was Ibrahimovic and look how that turned out...

[Marc Overmars]

The more I read about Allegri the less bothered I am about him tbh. Not sure he would be a good fit for us.

[Letters]

Emery had the goodwill because he hadn't been fully backed financially and he was dealing with "Wenger's squad" last year.

Those excuses went and he was exposed. Fair game really.

Any new manager by default comes with some good will unless they’re, say, Mourinho.
But most new managers will be given time, no one was expecting miracles last season.
The collapse at the end last year when Spurs were holding the door open for us to finish top 4 was...Wengeresque.
The Europa League final...well, that was disappointing but cup finals are all on the day, I’m not going to completely hammer a manager for losing that.
Overall, Emery’s first season didn’t bowl me over but I don’t think many people were calling for Emery to be sacked after it. I certainly wasn’t, I was just looking for some improvement and there was some - a somewhat disappointing amount but Emery did enough to earn another transfer window and season to sort things out.
But it’s been a car crash this season.
It’s our worst start since long before Wenger.
He’s completely mismanaged the Ozil situation.
He made Xhaka captain! :lol:
He’s contrived to make our defence worse than it was.
And despite our attacking options which are the envy of most clubs we aren’t even scoring goals.

Football fans are notoriously fickle and knee jerk but I don’t think anyone is overreacting here. I bear Emery no ill will. I’m sure he was doing his best. But he clearly wasn’t a good fit for us and I’m just glad the board have been decisive and got rid before more damage is done.

I refuse to believe that the right manager can’t come in and immediately make some difference.

[IBK]

I agree with everything you said except the power of hindsight bit.

The truth is if you had a Dein, Levy, Perez or the kind of setup they've got in Bayern running this club, Emery could plausibily have lost his job last season, immediately after the EL final.

I really do think that this Emery saga should prove to every Arsenal fan that just worrying about the manager and development of young players shouldn't be foremost in our mind. How many of us cared about the experience or the antecedents of Gazidis, Raul and all the other idiots that have run the club since the old Etonians effectively pushed Dein out? Silly decision after silly decision has been made since that fateful day and we continue to reap the effects of pushing out a true football man for corporate scientific charlatans.

We the fans need to focus our energies and do something about this board no matter how little. We're in the same hole as Man U, but we're worse off because we've got less money and no legends able to exert influence like they do. Their has to be some way we get some Arsenal DNA back at the top?

I'm not sure I agree with some of this. We can agree that David Dein was instrumental to our most successful years, and it's logical to assume that had he stayed the inertia of Wenger's last years would have been avoided. But it was principally the disagreement over Kronke being introduced to the club that caused Dein to leave IIRC, and its pointless to speculate over what might have been. Could the club have avoided an outside investor coming in over the long term? Maybe and maybe not - but we are where we are.

Looking at the actual decisions made by the club hierarchy - most were prepared to roll with Emery's appointment to deal with a transitional period, and most fans wer happy enough with the first 3 quarters of last season. The drop off at the end was alarming and I'm not sure that anyone can adequately explain the reasons for this. The question for me is whether its fair to criticise the club for keeping Emery on this season, and I think that much of the criticism is unfair and revisionist. We were very close to Emery fulfilling his remit of a top 4 place after a season in charge - via 2 routes - and the club very much backed him to better that in the signings made over the Summer. The club also tried to make progressive changes at board level, and anyone who denies that there wasn't a general feeling of optimisim going into this season is very much using hindsight to justify a point.

Like many others - I saw that the situation with Emery was going wrong irretrievably a short time into this season based on the performances, and decisions he was taking on the pitch. But if you want to look at history, Arsenal have never been a hire and fire club, and I am not going to go overboard in criticising a delay in getting rid of the manager until now. There are many perople praising Spurs for decisive action in sacking Pochettino, but Arsenal only took a week longer to take action in getting rid of Emery, and Spurs were below us in the table when they did so. We are very fond of judging our own club by different standards to others, or only looking at the success stories elsewhere and ignoring the horror ones.

Which brings me to your comparisons with Manure. Are we worse off? Really? The decision they took to appoint Solskjaer on a permanent basis was more screwed up than anything Arsenal have done over the past few years. It was totally unnecessary and ridiculously knee jerk. They are now on their 5th manager since Ferguson, and in more of a mess on the pitch than we are.

I agree 100% with NQ above when he says that looking for a magician now who will solve all our problems is a pipe dream. We have a lot of work to do to address the issues that are affecting our team, and IMO it makes more sense to realise this and start with the basics than expecting us to be 'cured' overnight by a dream manager.

[Özim]

Sutton says Ljungberg isn't right for Arsenal, he's spot on to be fair, he's been around the people who made those weird selections, used weird tactics and just generally didn't know what they were doing. His 1st match was a real disappointment, I know it was only the 1st match but it's just a conitnuation of the same old stuff really, we just need someone who is going to do things differently and recognise when players just don't fit or aren't good enough.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50638670

[Xhaka Can’t]

Call me a crazed procrastinator, but I’m going to let more than two days pass before judging Freddie.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Özim]

You can judge his team selection on Sunday however, that was just plain awful and misguided to say the least, you don't have to be Einstein to know who your best players (an who you shouldn't play - Xhaka) are and a number of those playing weren't. There's this weird culture at Arsenal to seemingly ignore the reality of what has been happening in the preceding period, it's kinda odd, it really comes across as not knowing the players or the club, which is odd because Ljungberg has been around a while.

If he'd won he could have made his point it was the right lineup, but he didn't he drew, against a team nearly at the bottom of the table, so not exactly a glowing start against one of the weakest teams around. In contrast at the other end of North London they've won 3 on the bounce since the new manager came in.

Personally don't want him as manager regadless of what he does, so hopefully we can conclude our business finding a manager promptly so that we can move on with some fresh ideas/players.

Think we've ignored good advice from external sources for too long at Arsenal, maybe just maybe some of them know what they're talking about and we don't judging by our performances in recent years.

Arsenal fans can't keeping making excuses for incompetence now surely.

[Xhaka Can’t]

They sacked Emery on Friday. There was no opportunity whatsoever for a training session by Sunday. You need time to plan for those and to see what works. You also need to take account of the relative fitness if the players. You cannot make wholesale changes on a Saturday and expect them to gel on Sunday.

This is not fantasy football. There is no quick fix.

Anyone arriving at a conclusion over the suitability of team management when someone takes over a team and has 48 hours to field a team, is being completely unreasonable.

[KSE Comedy Club]

They sacked Emery on Friday. There was no opportunity whatsoever for a training session by Sunday. You need time to plan for those and to see what works. You also need to take account of the relative fitness if the players. You cannot make wholesale changes on a Saturday and expect them to gel on Sunday.

This is not fantasy football. There is no quick fix.

Anyone arriving at a conclusion over the suitability of team management when someone takes over a team and has 48 hours to field a team, is being completely unreasonable.

I would agree with you on this but unfortunately it's no different to what Emery has been doing since the start of the season and Freddie should have learnt by now that it doesn't work.

He has had no time to put his ideas across or make any sort of impact with the team, that is a given, however, picking a team of players (worse than Emery's?) and doing virtually the same things as he did really wasn't what most people were expecting.

Had Emery still been in charge, he would have been absolutely slaughtered for putting that out and the subs he made were baffling.

It's not unreasonable to suggest if you do the same thing as before then you can't expect a different result. We have been here before with Wenger.

Just because Freddie is an Arsenal Legend, it doesn't make him exempt from any sort of criticism especially when we are in the situation we are right now.
The best defence I have for him is that he was being naive in what he chose to do.

Also by the same token, I don't personally think he is the right man for the job - we need someone completely different who will take the squad by the scruff of the neck and knock seven bells out of them so they start to remember who they are playing for and what they are paid stacks of cash for each week!

Freddie still gets fans full support whilst he is in charge, but he has been with Emery and the squad since the summer too, and he really needs to think differently for the next game on wards if he has any hope of getting results.

Doing the same thing again will prove to be disastrous and you don't need to be an expert working within the game to see it and know where we are going wrong.

[Bumble]

I would like Vieira brought in with Pires and Freddie alongside and Bergkamp as DoF.

why not bring in Sol to teach the defence and he can play to show them how its done.

[fakeyank]

I would like Vieira brought in with Pires and Freddie alongside and Bergkamp as DoF.

why not bring in Sol to teach the defence and he can play to show them how its done.

Umm.. no. Can we get out of our romance for the invincibles and instead focus on personnel who will actually change the mentality of this club?

[Bumble]

Umm.. no. Can we get out of our romance for the invincibles and instead focus on personnel who will actually change the mentality of this club?

ok Dyche, Alladyce, Benitez they will change the mentality.

I think we are too snobby as fans for the next managerial replacement... people laughed when Rogers was linked and now in hindsight it might have actually been a good appointment.

[KSE Comedy Club]

ok Dyche, Alladyce, Benitez they will change the mentality.

I think we are too snobby as fans for the next managerial replacement... people laughed when Rogers was linked and now in hindsight it might have actually been a good appointment.

Oh dear, you are having a mare' aren't you :lol:

[Globalgunner]

Even though it would be a huge psychological hurdle for Freddie to take. We need those type of old school managers to come in even as a consultant. Id like to see Keown brought in as a defence consultant. Dont know what Mertesaker will be telling any of our current defenders, he was distinctly average as a player. I shudder to thing what George Graham would do coaching our defence. He would tear those dimwits apart limb by limb.

This is where the current hierarchy must earn their money. They must see the defects we have as a team and bring in a manager who has a track record of ironing out such lapses. This is not the time for romantic notions of glory. The building has structural defects, Do not employ an internal decorator to fix the problem.

[hobson's choice]

Employing Wenger worked initially, but the guy had a massive advantage of knowing all the best players in French football at a time when the golden generation was coming through, that advantage no longer exists, we all saw how it went from 2006 onwards, not well.

What does Arteta have that makes him a decent candidate, what evidence is there he'd be a good manager, at least Wenger had managed before and achieved something, players with no management experience have no place managing a top club as their 1st experience of management, it would be a complete gamble based on no evidence he would be any good, if they do choose him, it would once again prove how incompetent these people are and how small time we are, not even good enough to attract a decent manager who has actually managed.

IMO Arteta is a prime candidate to flop, reason being he's been overhyped before he's achieved anything and that usually doesn't end well, this isn't the time to gamble on some nobody, it's time to get someone in who's been tested.

Please name me all these great managers that we can't attract?

The game of football isn't filled with great established managers . Either old stalwarts or young managers breaking through.

Unless we are getting an elite established manager. I say let's go for a young and up n coming manager. No more retread types.

[Özim]

Please name me all these great managers that we can't attract?

The game of football isn't filled with great established managers . Either old stalwarts or young managers breaking through.

Unless we are getting an elite established manager. I say let's go for a young and up n coming manager. No more retread types.

Allegri, Ancelotti, Simeone (could have had Mourinho), these are all managers we could attract, but of course it depends on our ambition. Rogers I'd take as well, his record speaks for itself.

If you wanted to go for younger less experienced, then the likes of Vieira, Nagelsmann not the likes of Arteta with zero management experience and only his pals to vouch for his apparent ability as manager.

[Mac76]

They sacked Emery on Friday. There was no opportunity whatsoever for a training session by Sunday. You need time to plan for those and to see what works. You also need to take account of the relative fitness if the players. You cannot make wholesale changes on a Saturday and expect them to gel on Sunday.

This is not fantasy football. There is no quick fix.

Anyone arriving at a conclusion over the suitability of team management when someone takes over a team and has 48 hours to field a team, is being completely unreasonable.

don't agree - there were some obvious things Freddie could have done differntly involving players who've had a fair amount of game time this season

I don't think we had the players for a back three tbh so the lineup could have been for example:


Leno

AMN Chambers Luiz Tierney

Torreira Guendouzi

Pepe Ozil Martinelli

Auba

You might not like that lineup but it shows what Freddie could have done instead of picking fuckups like Xhaka and Mustafi who a lot of fans hoped would no longer play a part, and it sent some very negative signals about where Freddie might take us

If Freddie doesn't take a very different approach tomorrow i'm not even going to bother turning up, there's no way i'm standing in the cold watching players like the ones he fielded

[KSE Comedy Club]

don't agree - therre were some obvious things Freddie could have done differntly iunvolving players who;ve had a fair amount fo game time this season

I don't think we had the players for a back three tbh so the lineup could have been for example:


Leno

AMN Chambers Luiz Tierney

Torreira Guendouzi

Pepe Ozil Martinelli

Auba

You might not like that lineup but it shows what Freddie could have done instead of picking fuckups like Xhaka and Mustafi who a lot of fans hoped would no longer play a part, and it sent some very negative signals about where Freddie might take us

If Freddie doesn't take a very different approach tomorrow i'm not even going to bother turning up, there's no ways i;m standing in the cold watching tossers like them

I personally would like to have seen this lineup from midfield up:


- Auba - Laca

Martinelli - Pepe
-Ozil

-Torriera


Torriera sits in front of the back four and does the job the footballing world knows he is good at.
Ozil is free in front of him to create and can pass out to either of the wings or foward to Auba & Laca.
Pepe and Martinelli provide pace and can attack or create & also cross in to the strikers.
Auba & Laca feed off each other and link up best when they are being fed from the midfiled /wings.

Defence is another matter entirely but I believe this is our best attacking line up

[Mac76]

I personally would like to have seen this lineup from midfield up:


- Auba - Laca

Martinelli - Pepe
-Ozil

-Torriera


Torriera sits in front of the back four and does the job the footballing world knows he is good at.
Ozil is free in front of him to create and can pass out to either of the wings or foward to Auba & Laca.
Pepe and Martinelli provide pace and can attack or create & also cross in to the strikers.
Auba & Laca feed off each other and link up best when they are being fed from the midfiled /wings.

Defence is another matter entirely but I believe this is our best attacking line up

sure it's good, i guess it's relying on keeping the ball a fair bit and also of the makeshift back line coping with a fast norwich attack, but if it comes down to us being able to score more goals than them itt's not a bad answer!

[Özim]

Totally agree, it wasnt hard to pick a better lineup, Torreira is actually very good when played in his natural position, just look how he plays for Uruguay. The central defence should have as few of Sokratis, Luiz and Mustafi as possible and Martinelli should start and perhaps Pepe could as well.

Tierney should 100% have started as well, Ljungbergs lineup was abysmal and for me if you can't get the basics like that right there's not much hope for you, for those people saying it's only his first game, that doesn't matter he's been at the club working with Emery all season he should be able to pick a decent team.

For years Arsenal fans have been making excuses, there's something that you can't make excuses for, the lineup is certainly one of those as was bringing on Saka (which stinks of favouritism because he's worked with him) when he's not been great this season and we have Martinelli who has impressed in most games and Pepe who cost us a lot of money and has done more than Saka.

Wenger has offered to talk to Ljungberg if he needs assistance, he just can't keep out of the clubs affairs even now it seems, whatever we do taking advice from Wenger would be a terrible mistake, it took us long enough to get rid of him.

[fakeyank]

Is it possible to get George Graham as a defensive consultant? We all rave about the great defenses he built, so why not bring him as a special consultant to straighten these c*nts out? He will definitely get the attention of the defenses because of his achievements with Arsenal and other teams he has managed.. he is considered highly throughout the club. Surely we can bring him in for a couple of months!? He'd be cheaper than us buying a VVD (which is something we wont do any way)

[fakeyank]

Allegri, Ancelotti, Simeone (could have had Mourinho), these are all managers we could attract, but of course it depends on our ambition. Rogers I'd take as well, his record speaks for itself.

If you wanted to go for younger less experienced, then the likes of Vieira, Nagelsmann not the likes of Arteta with zero management experience and only his pals to vouch for his apparent ability as manager.

I am not too sure why Vieira is okay with many fans? What has he achieved as a manager that we tend to think he is someone we should go for? If we are okay with him, I dont see why we shouldnt go for Arteta (who is highly rated by other managers).

If we had to go for a newer manager, why not go for Erik Ten Hag? This dude has transformed Ajax recently, and I would love to see him do something similar with us.

[Özim]

I am not too sure why Vieira is okay with many fans? What has he achieved as a manager that we tend to think he is someone we should go for? If we are okay with him, I dont see why we shouldnt go for Arteta (who is highly rated by other managers).

If we had to go for a newer manager, why not go for Erik Ten Hag? This dude has transformed Ajax recently, and I would love to see him do something similar with us.

He did a decent job in the US as manager and did ok last season as well with Nice who are a small club. Arteta has never managed, he's only rated by people who know him (his friends basically) and what are they suppose to say, that he just picks up the cones? They're obviously going to rave about him, their friendly with him,

Ten Hag could be an option although he won't fix the defence, Ajax are poor defensively.

My choice would be Allegri or Simeone or a manager who likes counter attacking footbal, I don't really care much for pass pass football, if we can find a manager that gets us to play counter attacking football I'd be happy.

Rogers seems to be good at that so not against him, he's not a popular choice but his record is pretty decent and he did a great job at Liverpool IMO.

[Özim]

Is it possible to get George Graham as a defensive consultant? We all rave about the great defenses he built, so why not bring him as a special consultant to straighten these c*nts out? He will definitely get the attention of the defenses because of his achievements with Arsenal and other teams he has managed.. he is considered highly throughout the club. Surely we can bring him in for a couple of months!? He'd be cheaper than us buying a VVD (which is something we wont do any way)

Not sure this will ever happen, he was sacked because of the bung scandal after all, as we know Arsenal tend to think they are morally superior so things like this won't go down well.

He was a great defensive coach though, he's 75 now as well so probably enjoying his retirement.

[rodders]

Never thought Arsenal could sink so low in such a short time. Nothing will change until the Kroenkes sell to someone who actually cares about Arsenal rather than how much money they an make.

[KSE Comedy Club]

He did a decent job in the US as manager and did ok last season as well with Nice who are a small club. Arteta has never managed, he's only rated by people who know him (his friends basically) and what are they suppose to say, that he just picks up the cones? They're obviously going to rave about him, their friendly with him,

Ten Hag could be an option although he won't fix the defence, Ajax are poor defensively.

My choice would be Allegri or Simeone or a manager who likes counter attacking footbal, I don't really care much for pass pass football, if we can find a manager that gets us to play counter attacking football I'd be happy.

Rogers seems to be good at that so not against him, he's not a popular choice but his record is pretty decent and he did a great job at Liverpool IMO.

Have to agree.

My first choice is Allegri & his 8 or 9 backroom staff that he wanted as he is a winner and they will be a clean sweep on the dross we've got behind the scenes right now

[Özim]

Have to agree.

My first choice is Allegri & his 8 or 9 backroom staff that he wanted as he is a winner and they will be a clean sweep on the dross we've got behind the scenes right now

Yes I think we need that, a totally fresh approach with none of the old group left behind who have been use to the Wenger ways, then we can move forward.

[Mac76]

Have to agree.

My first choice is Allegri & his 8 or 9 backroom staff that he wanted as he is a winner and they will be a clean sweep on the dross we've got behind the scenes right now

Yes, and while i'm worreid he may not be quite as attack-focussed as we'd like, he has the stature to simply tell players where to get off - i think Freddie's choice was all about keeping 'senior' players happy which we can't afford to do - people should play on merit and nothing else.

we need someone who will sit down Xhaka and Mustafi and say 'you've played your last game here - go call your agent and sort something out'

[fakeyank]

Not sure this will ever happen, he was sacked because of the bung scandal after all, as we know Arsenal tend to think they are morally superior so things like this won't go down well.

He was a great defensive coach though, he's 75 now as well so probably enjoying his retirement.

At 75, I think he is enjoying his retirement too, hence the comment about a special consultant for the next 2-3 months. Someone who we hire to tell us how much improvement we need and what his recommendations are... kinda like having an external account firm auditing your finances.

[Mac76]

kinda like having an external account firm auditing your finances.

i don't think Graham would be keen on that :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

At 75, I think he is enjoying his retirement too, hence the comment about a special consultant for the next 2-3 months. Someone who we hire to tell us how much improvement we need and what his recommendations are... kinda like having an external account firm auditing your finances.

And the wing play at pace, whip it into the box and have Shearer go up against Adams, those days are gone. Now it's more like run at the defender, fly into the air screaming while your mates shout VAR! Graham wouldn't have a clue in this blighted era of football. All you have to do is look harshly at the likes of Vardy or Kane and you're defending a free kick at the edge of the box and down to 10 men. Adams and Keown wouldn't be totally ineffective today. Half their game was intimidating the opposition out of it.

And poor old Freddie. I said, just a few days ago, I hope the fans take it easy. One game in and Freddie's been and gone in many fans' minds. I doubt that was even his team. Bet it was Emery's last line-up and tactics. Doubt Freddie had time enough to get his pen set, stapler and family portrait on his desk - let alone shake up the team into something the fans are demanding. We'll see what happens tomorrow now he's had a whole week to win the CL.

[fakeyank]

i don't think Graham would be keen on that :lol:

:haha:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yes, and while i'm worreid he may not be quite as attack-focussed as we'd like, he has the stature to simply tell players where to get off - i think Freddie's choice was all about keeping 'senior' players happy which we can't afford to do - people should play on merit and nothing else.

we need someone who will sit down Xhaka and Mustafi and say 'you've played your last game here - go call your agent and sort something out'

By All accounts his attacking record over 5 yeas wasn't that bad.

It's along the lines of 196 odd goals conceded and 550 goals scored.

Something like that.

[Özim]

And the wing play at pace, whip it into the box and have Shearer go up against Adams, those days are gone. Now it's more like run at the defender, fly into the air screaming while your mates shout VAR! Graham wouldn't have a clue in this blighted era of football. All you have to do is look harshly at the likes of Vardy or Kane and you're defending a free kick at the edge of the box and down to 10 men. Adams and Keown wouldn't be totally ineffective today. Half their game was intimidating the opposition out of it.

And poor old Freddie. I said, just a few days ago, I hope the fans take it easy. One game in and Freddie's been and gone in many fans' minds. I doubt that was even his team. Bet it was Emery's last line-up and tactics. Doubt Freddie had time enough to get his pen set, stapler and family portrait on his desk - let alone shake up the team into something the fans are demanding. We'll see what happens tomorrow now he's had a whole week to win the CL.

Ljungberg did an interview where he pretty much confirmed he picked that team because it was the best balance for us. Let's be honest he picked a dud of a lineup, not a good start, but anyway he won't be the manager long hopefully, surely we can find someone qualified fairly soon, because that's what we need at Arsenal now, someone strong who won't accept 2nd rate performances and has a system in mind and can drill players into playing it correctly and defending, too much for an inpexerienced manager. We need a big personality who isn't scared to tell players what he thinks about their performances.

[Mac76]

By All accounts his attacking record over 5 yeas wasn't that bad.

It's along the lines of 196 odd goals conceded and 550 goals scored.

Something like that.

in that case i'm for Allegri for sure

[Maestro]

It is safe to say that we are finally fucked as a football outfit

The inherent problems Wenger left here have only just got worse since his departure.

1. Distinct lack of top quality in both the playing and coaching staff
2. Severe mental and physical weakness
3. Lack of vision and strategy at executive and ownership level

Makes for a nice molotov of a club on the verge of implosion. Too many problems in too many areas.