summer '22 transfer craziness and stupidity

[I am invisible]

Don’t see Tielemans happening unless we sell Xhaka.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say I don't think the two are directly linked - we thinned the squad down massively over the last year, and we already have both the squad-space and the money free to add Tielemans without needing something else to shift first, so I don't see Xhaka's situation impeding that move.

As for Xhaka, it's kind of up to him whether he wants to stay or move on. Tielemans coming in would most likely mean he'll spending a lot more time on the bench, but then again I think the 5-subs thing is going to be a pretty big deal next season, and I can really see it changing how teams think. I have a feeling we'll see a move towards what they've been doing in rugby where you have players who start games and players who finish games, and a lot more switching between systems if something isn't working - Xhaka gives us the option of a double-pivot when we need it, which might be useful? Don't know how many minutes that will translate to, but it's a consideration.

If he does go, it's 50/50 whether we replace him - whoever comes in would be looking at the same situation, so it would depend on the player and the price.

[I am invisible]

Signing Fabio Vieira doesn’t impact Arsenal’s pursuit of Youri Tielemans. Club still see Tielemans as a top priority and remain confident of agreeing a price with Leicester.
https://twitter.com/JacobsBen/status/1537541163250601988

is he any good? Been a bit underwhelmed whenever i've seen him play bar the odd goal

Tielemans or Vieira?

[Munchies]

Tielemans or Vieira?

Tielemans

Don't have high expectations for Vieira as is lol,

[Globalgunner]

Xhaka leaving would be just like a new signing. Dont know if we should wait until after the WC. He nominally plays better for Switzerland than he does for us and is captain. We might be able to grab an extra 10m from Mourinho after the WC assuming Xhaka isn't sent off in the first game

Wijnaldum should be Xhaka`s replacement. Our resident Pool fan seems to think he would be good for us.....I trust his judgment in these matters

[I am invisible]

Tielemans

Don't have high expectations for Vieira as is lol,

He looks perfect for our 433, IMO. Very much an all-rounder - can create a bit, score a bit, carry the ball, put in a challenge. He's not a 6'3 monster, but I don't think he needs to be - everything we've done over the last year has been about reducing the distance from front to back (esp. with more athletic defenders who can play high) so the guys in the middle tend to be more about working in tight spaces as they no longer have vast distances to cover. From what I've seen of him he has good, tight control, he's relatively comfortable with both feet, and he has a lovely ability to take a ball on the half-turn, roll his marker and then accelerate away over 10-20 yards - those last two (two-footedness and taking the ball on the half-turn) are traits I think we now look for in any player we sign (Vieira also has both qualities).

Not really sure what to expect from Vieira, but €35-40m from the Portuguese league isn't exactly chump change, and he's already being repped by a super agent, so that hints at a good player. Think he's being brought in to provide cover for Ødegaard and Saka with a view to being able to challenge both when he gets used to the league.

[Mac76]

Xhaka leaving would be just like a new signing. Dont know if we should wait until after the WC. He nominally plays better for Switzerland than he does for us and is captain. We might be able to grab an extra 10m from Mourinho after the WC assuming Xhaka isn't sent off in the first game

Wijnaldum should be Xhaka`s replacement. Our resident Pool fan seems to think he would be good for us.....I trust his judgment in these matters

Let's just get rid now, if we wait it could work the other way at the WC and he does a Xhaka and gets a straight red, putting off potential buyers

The sooner he's gone the better

[Mac76]

No, I believe he suffered.

He had no pre season with us, then he was brought on in games here and there to try and get him up to speed. Then Emery was sacked and Arteta came in and didn't really like him and never gave him a chance.

If he had time to properly bed into the team, I think we would have gotten a much better version of him in the long run.

I agree, although the money involved in his signing was also blatant corruption by Raul and co and it didn't help him as expectations went sky-high, if we'd signed him for £25m or so it would have played out differently though Arteta's attitude may have been the same

[Letters]

Let's just get rid now, if we wait it could work the other way at the WC and he does a Xhaka and gets a straight red, putting off potential buyers

The sooner he's gone the better

Not a fan? :unsure:

[Munchies]

�� Arsenal defensive priority this window is Lisandro Martinez. Wanted for ability to play LCB / LB + 24yo Argentina international said to be keen. Sources indicate ~€30m bid already rejected by #Ajax but #AFC will keep pushing. That & more

https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/status/1537842321672347652

[I am invisible]

Interesting… wouldn’t hurt to have a left-sided Tomiyasu.

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61852053

New signings :bow:

[I am invisible]

Fair play to his agent - he’s played a blinder there. Shame he’s representing Saka too - this guy knows how to get a deal!

[Mac76]

It makes sense ro keep Eddie, but we need more than that up front, as well as LB, RB, DM...

So of course we're signing and chasing attacking midfielders all over the place :rolleyes:

[I am invisible]

I dunno, I think our targets have been pretty much on the money so far - not really fussed what order they arrive, as long as they arrive.

100% needed someone like Vieira, though - quality competition is thin for Saka and non-existent for Ødegaard. Both are going to need careful management this year with the reduced preseason and the ridiculous WC.

[Chippy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61852053

New signings :bow:

I got very excited before I realised it was Eddie :(

[Gooner23]

I dunno, I think our targets have been pretty much on the money so far - not really fussed what order they arrive, as long as they arrive.

100% needed someone like Vieira, though - quality competition is thin for Saka and non-existent for Ødegaard. Both are going to need careful management this year with the reduced preseason and the ridiculous WC.

If we can get Jesus done quickly, and upgrade Xhaka and Pepe with Tielemans and Raphina that is a very very good summer.

Don't know anything about the Ajax defender we're linked with but I am increasingly confident with Arteta's targets.

[I am invisible]

If we can get Jesus done quickly, and upgrade Xhaka and Pepe with Tielemans and Raphina that is a very very good summer.

Don't know anything about the Ajax defender we're linked with but I am increasingly confident with Arteta's targets.
No, me either, but he sounds like he can play LB, LCB and DM to a high standard, so that’s 3 problems solved. Also sounds very well thought of, from what I’ve read.

Think we’re good at RB if Saliba’s coming home - that gives us options there - and I think we have plenty of cover for DM, esp. if we bring this Martinez in (although I probably have very different views on that role to a lot of fans, so I don’t expect everyone to agree on that).

Jesus, Tielemens, Vieira, Martinez, Saliba, Turner - if we manage to add that lot to the squad then that’s a really, really strong summer. Raphinha as well would be dreamland territory for me - I can’t quite make myself believe that one on top of everything else, no matter how hard I try. Things like that don’t happen to Arsenal fans. I’m not even sure where we’d fit him in if we added the rest?

[I am invisible]

I got very excited before I realised it was Eddie :(
:pal:

[I am invisible]

I’ve got a lot of time for Eddie, but I don’t even want to think about what he’s probably wrung out of us here! Another week and he’d have been a free agent, so his agent must have been pushing the same kind of signing-on fee and wages that any free transfer would expect. Probably still by far the most cost-effective option for us, all things considered, but it still has the feel of a regular contract renewal…

[mandela8]

I’ve got a lot of time for Eddie, but I don’t even want to think about what he’s probably wrung out of us here! Another week and he’d have been a free agent, so his agent must have been pushing the same kind of signing-on fee and wages that any free transfer would expect. Probably still by far the most cost-effective option for us, all things considered, but it still has the feel of a regular contract renewal…

I read 100k per week and 4.5m signing bonus, spread over his contract. Seems insane but contracts are these days and there's absolutely no reason to believe it's accurate.

[I am invisible]

I read 100k per week and 4.5m signing bonus, spread overo his contract. Seems insane but contracts are these days and there's absolutely no reason to believe it's accurate.

I don’t know why I can’t get past it because it’s actually a good deal for everyone: we get a better, younger player than we had in Lacazette on half the wages (or close enough) and we save 25-30m on not having to buy a second CF this summer; and Eddie gets a nice pay rise and a signing on bonus. Everyone wins, right?

[KSE Comedy Club]

No, me either, but he sounds like he can play LB, LCB and DM to a high standard, so that’s 3 problems solved. Also sounds very well thought of, from what I’ve read.

Think we’re good at RB if Saliba’s coming home - that gives us options there - and I think we have plenty of cover for DM, esp. if we bring this Martinez in (although I probably have very different views on that role to a lot of fans, so I don’t expect everyone to agree on that).

Jesus, Tielemens, Vieira, Martinez, Saliba, Turner - if we manage to add that lot to the squad then that’s a really, really strong summer. Raphinha as well would be dreamland territory for me - I can’t quite make myself believe that one on top of everything else, no matter how hard I try. Things like that don’t happen to Arsenal fans. I’m not even sure where we’d fit him in if we added the rest?

Those signings would represent very good work, but it still leaves us short.

The squad is threadbare and needed 3-4 players in addition to 4-6 new players.

We lost two strikers, gonna lose Pepe and Xhaka :pray: and these guys will just be replacing them.

I hope the club realise that.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I don’t know why I can’t get past it because it’s actually a good deal for everyone: we get a better, younger player than we had in Lacazette on half the wages (or close enough) and we save 25-30m on not having to buy a second CF this summer; and Eddie gets a nice pay rise and a signing on bonus. Everyone wins, right?

tbf, at least Eddie can score goals, so there is that I guess :shrug:

[Gooner23]

I don’t know why I can’t get past it because it’s actually a good deal for everyone: we get a better, younger player than we had in Lacazette on half the wages (or close enough) and we save 25-30m on not having to buy a second CF this summer; and Eddie gets a nice pay rise and a signing on bonus. Everyone wins, right?

Plus at his age we should be able to sell him for a reasonable fee if it doesn't work out over next year or two. He'll be at an age where he wants to be the main man somewhere, we're not talking about a Willian looking for a nice retirement.

If we make it back to the champs league I think we'll go back in for a marquee forward, unless Jesus and Eddie are tearing it up (assuming we get the Jesus deal over the line).

[Chippy]

Plus at his age we should be able to sell him for a reasonable fee if it doesn't work out over next year or two. He'll be at an age where he wants to be the main man somewhere, we're not talking about a Willian looking for a nice retirement.

If we make it back to the champs league I think we'll go back in for a marquee forward, unless Jesus and Eddie are tearing it up (assuming we get the Jesus deal over the line).

Rumor is that the scum are going to hijack the Jesus deal. :(

That will be quite annoying. Although it would be our own fault.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Rumor is that the scum are going to hijack the Jesus deal. :(

That will be quite annoying. Although it would be our own fault.

They will try, but I think Jesus only wants to come to us.

More so he can cuddle up with Arteta again tbf.

Conte's hair doesn't look as good either

[mandela8]

I don’t know why I can’t get past it because it’s actually a good deal for everyone: we get a better, younger player than we had in Lacazette on half the wages (or close enough) and we save 25-30m on not having to buy a second CF this summer; and Eddie gets a nice pay rise and a signing on bonus. Everyone wins, right?

That's certainly the way to rationalize it...but it doesn't make it any more...exciting, I guess, to me.

I suppose there's enough going on that this solves one problem. Protects an asset too...although not sure he's very sellable if he is on 100k per week, tbh.

[mandela8]

Seen the links to Hickey have cooled too.

Never made sense to me that one as this is a boy who reject Bayern for Bologna because playing time was his priority. Going to arsenal to sit behind Tierney didn't make sense.

Naw even sure there was intradest but trying to live this place up a bit, ffs.

[KSE Comedy Club]

supposedly we are close to signing Raphina :shrug:

[Marc Overmars]

I really don’t think we’re going to spend 40-50m on Raphina, not with Vieira on the way. Probably just his agent whoring him about for a move.

[mandela8]

I really don’t think we’re going to spend 40-50m on Raphina, not with Vieira on the way. Probably just his agent whoring him about for a move.

Hopefully Vieira plays more centrally. We desperately need another progressive player in the middle.

We are also absolutely shite out wide so an established winger, like Raphinia, would be huge.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah it would be a pretty decent move. Got to shift Pepe as well you’d think for more signings out wide.

Suppose it could be possible given the Brazilian influence spreading around the club now.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I really don’t think we’re going to spend 40-50m on Raphina, not with Vieira on the way. Probably just his agent whoring him about for a move.

He would be Pepe's replacement though

[Mac76]

They will try, but I think Jesus only wants to come to us.

More so he can cuddle up with Arteta again tbf.

Conte's hair doesn't look as good either

it can only be the Arteta aspect that gets Jesus over the line - and ofc he probaly realises spuds will never win anything :lol:

but he'll want to be playing CL again soon though...

[Gooner23]

Yeah it would be a pretty decent move. Got to shift Pepe as well you’d think for more signings out wide.

Suppose it could be possible given the Brazilian influence spreading around the club now.

I think Pepe will be gone this summer by hook or crook. It's clear that Arteta doesn't trust him. And after three years he's still far too inconsistent. We'll probably have to take a massive loss on him, either a cheap sale or loan. So bringing in a new winger makes sense, but Raphina does feel a bit unrealistic given the price tag.

[mandela8]

I think Pepe will be gone this summer by hook or crook. It's clear that Arteta doesn't trust him. And after three years he's still far too inconsistent. We'll probably have to take a massive loss on him, either a cheap sale or loan. So bringing in a new winger makes sense, but Raphina does feel a bit unrealistic given the price tag.

The most inconsistent thing about Pepe was his exposure to the first team. He's clearly a player that needs a run to find consistency but Arteta mismanaged him to absolute death. He is, by far, the most dangerous player in the squad. Even when playing shite he'd always create summin.
I'm pretty confident in saying if Pepe played every game instead of Saka we'd have finished in 4th. We dropped countless points because we had no one with a cutting edge and our only real threat was sat on the bench.

[Gooner23]

The most inconsistent thing about Pepe was his exposure to the first team. He's clearly a player that needs a run to find consistency but Arteta mismanaged him to absolute death. He is, by far, the most dangerous player in the squad. Even when playing shite he'd always create summin.
I'm pretty confident in saying if Pepe played every game instead of Saka we'd have finished in 4th. We dropped countless points because we had no one with a cutting edge and our only real threat was sat on the bench.

I agree he should have had more minutes last season, but only to reduce the burden on Saka.

Pepe has some strengths but also some massive flaws. I'm sure he will do well somewhere else but right now is miles behind Saka. And with their respective ages that gap will only increase.

[KSE Comedy Club]

it can only be the Arteta aspect that gets Jesus over the line - and ofc he probaly realises spuds will never win anything :lol:

but he'll want to be playing CL again soon though...

That's exactly what I thought too - they will never win ANYTHING!!!!! :haha:

[dazthegooner]

it can only be the Arteta aspect that gets Jesus over the line - and ofc he probaly realises spuds will never win anything :lol:

but he'll want to be playing CL again soon though...

Though like last year in the Intertoto2ndrateeurocup not for long :good:

[mandela8]

I agree he should have had more minutes last season, but only to reduce the burden on Saka.

Pepe has some strengths but also some massive flaws. I'm sure he will do well somewhere else but right now is miles behind Saka. And with their respective ages that gap will only increase.

Pepe is significantly better than Saka. If Pepe put in the performances Saka has he'd be labelled as shite. And rightly so. Again, Saka can do no wrong in most people's eyes. I'll change that though.

Stats are also nonsense for the most part but I'm pretty sure Pepe's are much better on a minute by minute basis, which would be startling given how much more difficult it is to come into a team so occasionally and as a sub.

[Mac76]

The most inconsistent thing about Pepe was his exposure to the first team. He's clearly a player that needs a run to find consistency but Arteta mismanaged him to absolute death. He is, by far, the most dangerous player in the squad. Even when playing shite he'd always create summin.
I'm pretty confident in saying if Pepe played every game instead of Saka we'd have finished in 4th. We dropped countless points because we had no one with a cutting edge and our only real threat was sat on the bench.

generally agree, Pepe has been very badly treated, Arteta was probably jealous at his signing on fee :lol:

we'll just let him go for a bargain price and watch on as he goes large on goals and assists somewhere else...

[dazthegooner]

Vieira singing confirmed.

[Globalgunner]

Seen it. Impressive face hair for a 22 year old. My own whiskers were barely worth shaving in my own time. Has anyone at Arsenal seen his birth certificate?

[Globalgunner]

Vieira singing confirmed.

You said "singing";)

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He came from Senegal Portugal.

[Marc Overmars]

Sounds like the Raphina interest is legit. :popcorn:

[mandela8]

Sounds like the Raphina interest is legit. :popcorn:

Hope so, man.

Would be a brilliant signing. Bit of a statement too. Based on his Leeds form he's definitely the kinda player that should contribute to Arteta's 90-100 goals required to challenge.

Also has an edge to him that this squad kinda lacks.

[I am invisible]

Welcome to the club, Fabio! Half the fan base already loves you and are pinning all their hopes on you, even though they’ve never seen you play, and the other half hates you for being short. Have fun!

[Chippy]

Vieira singing confirmed.

Looks far too lightweight in my opinion. We needed a beast in midfield. :thumbsdown:

[mandela8]

Looks far too lightweight in my opinion. We needed a beast in midfield. :thumbsdown:

I do prefer bigger athletic players, tbh, as long as it's not at the detriment to ability. However, if we're bringing in a big beast I'd rather it be at CB. White is too lightweight for me back there. Has zero presence. Saliba is 6 4" apparently so I'm pinning my hopes on that particular player who I've never seen play.

[Chippy]

I do prefer bigger athletic players, tbh, as long as it's not at the detriment to ability. However, if we're bringing in a big beast I'd rather it be at CB. White is too lightweight for me back there. Has zero presence. Saliba is 6 4" apparently so I'm pinning my hopes on that particular player who I've never seen play.

Yep! Totally agree about the Saliva comment.

[Globalgunner]

Yep! Totally agree about the Saliva comment.

What about Saliva?

[Letters]

Looks far too lightweight in my opinion. We needed a beast in midfield. :thumbsdown:

Holy shit :lol:

[Chippy]

What about Saliva?

Doh! Saliba :good:

[Chippy]

Holy shit :lol:

What? Just my opinion. He looks frail, like Cedric tbf

[Letters]

What? Just my opinion. He looks frail, like Cedric tbf

It's just very on brand of you.
We do have a habit of shitting on new signings before they've kicked a ball for us.

[Chippy]

It's just very on brand of you.
We do have a habit of shitting on new signings before they've kicked a ball for us.

Are you saying I'm a miserable bugger:rolleyes:

[I am invisible]

Them’s fightin’ words!

[I am invisible]

Official bid made for Raphinha according to Orny.

No idea how much - first offer is usually just to feel the water anyway so I expect it will be rejected - but at least it lets the player know our interest is serious.

[Letters]

Are you saying I'm a miserable bugger:rolleyes:

No, you are


No need to feel sorry, I enjoy being miserable about Arsenal Football Club

;)

[I am invisible]

I do prefer bigger athletic players, tbh, as long as it's not at the detriment to ability. However, if we're bringing in a big beast I'd rather it be at CB. White is too lightweight for me back there. Has zero presence. Saliba is 6 4" apparently so I'm pinning my hopes on that particular player who I've never seen play.
That seems to be the way it’s going. The way I see it most of the midfield problems we see are caused by the vast distance between front and back that midfielders are / were having to cover, and there’s two fixes: recruit big, powerful, athletic midfielders who can better cover those distances; or reduce the distance. If you do the latter then that changes the need to athletic defenders with recovery pace who can push high, maybe a forward or two who can drop to link play, and technical midfielders with quick feet who can work in tight spaces.

(Incidentally, this is why I think Pep has gone all in for Haaland - people are assuming he just wants a big lump to overpower packed defences and score a different type of goal when needed, but Pep is very good at working out what’s coming next in the game and I think he’s seen the way the wind is blowing here. I think he’s seen an increasing move towards high lines again and he’s tooling up with a forward with devastating pace and running power who can exploit it.)

[KSE Comedy Club]

Hope so, man.

Would be a brilliant signing. Bit of a statement too. Based on his Leeds form he's definitely the kinda player that should contribute to Arteta's 90-100 goals required to challenge.

Also has an edge to him that this squad kinda lacks.

11 goals and 3 assists is not exactly stellar :shrug:

[Marc Overmars]

Leeds have rejected a 50m offer.

[I am invisible]

Oh wow, not that much of a low-ball offer then?

[KSE Comedy Club]

Leeds have rejected a 50m offer.

lol, he's not worth more than that.

These clubs are a joke

[mandela8]

11 goals and 3 assists is not exactly stellar :shrug:

In that Leeds team it's brilliant.

[Marc Overmars]

lol, he's not worth more than that.

These clubs are a joke

To be fair they don’t need to sell him and they know we’re after new attacking options, why not milk us dry?

Most clubs drive a hard bargain, it’s only us where players are sold on the cheap or in most cases just given away.

[KSE Comedy Club]

To be fair they don’t need to sell him and they know we’re after new attacking options, why not milk us dry?

Most clubs drive a hard bargain, it’s only us where players are sold on the cheap or in most cases just given away.

Yep and I have no problem with that, clubs can be a bit cheeky here and there when it comes to player sales.

But they will need to sell him as he doesn't want to stay there & had they been relegated the clause was £25m.

We've offered double that and £5m more than his actual value so what exactly are they expecting?

He isn't a world class, 30 goal a season striker at the moment.
I just think anymore than £50m is a pisstake

[mandela8]

Yep and I have no problem with that, clubs can be a bit cheeky here and there when it comes to player sales.

But they will need to sell him as he doesn't want to stay there & had they been relegated the clause was £25m.

We've offered double that and £5m more than his actual value so what exactly are they expecting?

He isn't a world class, 30 goal a season striker at the moment.
I just think anymore than £50m is a pisstake

50-60 million is pretty fuckin reasonable nowadays, man.

We've just spent over 30 on some malnourished Portuguese guy who never regularly started for Porto, ffs (I like the signing, fwiw, just speaking from Leeds perspective). Players like Grealish going for 100m. He's Leeds best players and proven to be one of the better players in the league, despite playing for a relegation battling team. Brazilian international with intradest from teams like Barcelona.

[KSE Comedy Club]

50-60 million is pretty fuckin reasonable nowadays, man.

We've just spent over 30 on some malnourished Portuguese guy who never regularly started for Porto, ffs (I like the signing, fwiw, just speaking from Leeds perspective). Players like Grealish going for 100m. He's Leeds best players and proven to be one of the better players in the league, despite playing for a relegation battling team. Brazilian international with intradest from teams like Barcelona.

Oh I agree, I'm not suggesting that £50m isn't a reasonable middle of the road sum these days.

But Leeds are suggesting it isn't and think we should be paying more :shrug:

[mandela8]

Oh I agree, I'm not suggesting that £50m isn't a reasonable middle of the road sum these days.

But Leeds are suggesting it isn't and think we should be paying more :shrug:

Ahh...ok, fair enough.

I'd love to know how these valuations and negotiations are arrived at. I mean, there must be some reference/analysis a team bases their offer on.

Do they just check transfermarkt.com or some shit?

Talk to the agent?

Just make it up completely??

[I am invisible]

£50-60m will look more like £10-12m per year for the next 5 years added to our operating costs - it won't just be £60m debited from our savings account. As long as the annual repayments (and salaries) (and agents' fees) for all of these deals sit within our annual turnover then it's all affordable.

This is where all the work we've done over the last couple of years [in trimming the fat from the squad] will start to pay off - we may not have made much (if anything) on fees, but we've (allegedly) cut the wage bill down from £190m to £85m pa! That's an extra £105m we can afford to add to our operating costs, which would be the equivalent of something like 6 or 7 £50m-signings on £100k/wk salaries, with deals structured over 5 years.

Obviously it won't work out exactly like that - some fees / wages will be higher, some lower, some will want more money up front, some will be structured over fewer years, etc - but you get the gist. When you look at it in those terms, the difference between £50m and £60m is £2m a year for 5 years, so not necessarily anything to worry about.

[I am invisible]

Ahh...ok, fair enough.

I'd love to know how these valuations and negotiations are arrived at. I mean, there must be some reference/analysis a team bases their offer on.

Do they just check transfermarkt.com or some shit?

Talk to the agent?

Just make it up completely??

Probably a mixture of a) deterrent and b) covering the cost of their own targets (plural).

If you're the selling club you want to come out of it on the up, otherwise what's the point? What's in it for you? If you're Leeds, and you're selling Raphinha, you don't want to come out of it with just enough money to buy the next Raphinha - you want to be getting that player and maybe one or two others too.

[selassie]

lol, he's not worth more than that.

These clubs are a joke

My thoughts exactly. We have gaping holes in other areas of the team to address before spending crazy sums on a wide player (decent one) where we are completely stacked at the moment.

When are we going to address Central Midfield?!?!

[McNamara That Ghost...]

In fairness if Leeds thinks they will sink from the league without him, they're probably fair asking for a lot more than £50 million.

Might also have seen what we spent on Pepe and they want a bit of that.

[mandela8]

My thoughts exactly. We have gaping holes in other areas of the team to address before spending crazy sums on a wide player (decent one) where we are completely stacked at the moment.

When are we going to address Central Midfield?!?!

We're not really stacked in the wide areas though. We have 3 kids. None of whom have been consistently good or anywhere near the level to challenge. And Pepe who rightly wants out from Arteta. And I'm naw even convinced ESR is a wide player. So that leaves Saka and Martinelli.

I'm also convinced Vieira is to play CM with Partey and Odegaard. We know Arteta wants to move to a 1 DM and 2 more progressive players in CM/AMC kinda system. He's said as much.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’m certainly not adverse to bringing in Raphinia but I think it’s less of a priority than a central midfielder

The problem with Arteta’s so called plan is that in order for that system to work you need either a deep lying central midfielder capable of getting the ball forward quickly or you need a more advanced midfielder to drop deep and win the ball and we don’t have that. This is why Tielemans or a player like him was a must.

We have two key attacking issues - one no reliable goalscorer and two no one who can beat the press and play in out quickly to the attacking quartet or as Arteta seems to favour Quintet.

I have no issue in principle, I think there are a lot of games where it’s patently unnecessary to be playing with two defensive midfielders but we simply do not have the conduit between defence and attack in the middle of the park. And if that Lego haired fool doesn’t address this, we are going to be up shit creek again before long.

[IBK]

We're not really stacked in the wide areas though. We have 3 kids. None of whom have been consistently good or anywhere near the level to challenge. And Pepe who rightly wants out from Arteta. And I'm naw even convinced ESR is a wide player. So that leaves Saka and Martinelli.

I'm also convinced Vieira is to play CM with Partey and Odegaard. We know Arteta wants to move to a 1 DM and 2 more progressive players in CM/AMC kinda system. He's said as much.

I think you're on the money re Vieira.

[mandela8]

I’m certainly not adverse to bringing in Raphinia but I think it’s less of a priority than a central midfielder

The problem with Arteta’s so called plan is that in order for that system to work you need either a deep lying central midfielder capable of getting the ball forward quickly or you need a more advanced midfielder to drop deep and win the ball and we don’t have that. This is why Tielemans or a player like him was a must.

We have two key attacking issues - one no reliable goalscorer and two no one who can beat the press and play in out quickly to the attacking quartet or as Arteta seems to favour Quintet.

I have no issue in principle, I think there are a lot of games where it’s patently unnecessary to be playing with two defensive midfielders but we simply do not have the conduit between defence and attack in the middle of the park. And if that Lego haired fool doesn’t address this, we are going to be up shit creek again before long.

Partey takes the ball and plays it through the lines. He's the only player who does so. That said, he's extremely limited when Odegaard is often his only option as the other CM, wether it be Xhaka or Elneny don't present as an option and people like Saka hide behind defenders constantly.

You put a more progressive thinking player in there with Odegaard, which I'm hoping/assuming Vieira is, and players like Raphina and a striker who doesn't have profound learning difficulties then it makes Partey's job significantly easier.

[selassie]

We're not really stacked in the wide areas though. We have 3 kids. None of whom have been consistently good or anywhere near the level to challenge. And Pepe who rightly wants out from Arteta. And I'm naw even convinced ESR is a wide player. So that leaves Saka and Martinelli.

I'm also convinced Vieira is to play CM with Partey and Odegaard. We know Arteta wants to move to a 1 DM and 2 more progressive players in CM/AMC kinda system. He's said as much.

We are stacked compared to the Centre forward position where we just have Nketiah at the moment.

Also ESR‘a numbers from the wide area where relatively good last season, where do you think he should play if not out wide? He’s not a number 10 or even a number 8.

Vieira has had one full season as a rotational player, you think he is going to walk into our team?!?!

[I am invisible]

I’m certainly not adverse to bringing in Raphinia but I think it’s less of a priority than a central midfielder

The problem with Arteta’s so called plan is that in order for that system to work you need either a deep lying central midfielder capable of getting the ball forward quickly or you need a more advanced midfielder to drop deep and win the ball and we don’t have that. This is why Tielemans or a player like him was a must.

We have two key attacking issues - one no reliable goalscorer and two no one who can beat the press and play in out quickly to the attacking quartet or as Arteta seems to favour Quintet.

I have no issue in principle, I think there are a lot of games where it’s patently unnecessary to be playing with two defensive midfielders but we simply do not have the conduit between defence and attack in the middle of the park. And if that Lego haired fool doesn’t address this, we are going to be up shit creek again before long.
Prioritising moves isn’t always about which player the team needs the most - sometimes it’s more about which deals need to happen most urgently because of competition? From what I’m reading about Tielemens it sounds like there’s no particular rush - there may still be some haggling involved with club and player, but Leicester are in a pretty weak position and there doesn’t seem to be anyone else in for him, so we might feel it’s safe to park that one for a few days.

[IBK]

Prioritising moves isn’t always about which player the team needs the most - sometimes it’s more about which deals need to happen most urgently because of competition? From what I’m reading about Tielemens it sounds like there’s no particular rush - there may still be some haggling involved with club and player, but Leicester are in a pretty weak position and there doesn’t seem to be anyone else in for him, so we might feel it’s safe to park that one for a few days.

Yes that's what seems to be happening, and we shouldn't be spooked by other clubs doing business. Still plenty of time. I do wonder though whether the club would need to find a buyer for Xhaka in order to sign Tielemans?

[I am invisible]

…I'm also convinced Vieira is to play CM with Partey and Odegaard. We know Arteta wants to move to a 1 DM and 2 more progressive players in CM/AMC kinda system. He's said as much.
Could be. It’d certainly be a good option to have with 5 subs. I’d be surprised if he was ready to be starting games right out of the box, though - if I had to guess I’d say he’ll be looking at more or a supporting role in his first 5-8 months until he’s up to speed with the league and has spent a few months in the gym. Final third of the season / year 2, though? Could be.

Whatever our plans for him I don’t think it’ll have a bearing on our pursuit of Tielemans / alternative 6/8 - we’ll want that option too. Again, I keep going on about 5 subs, but I really think it’s going to be seismic - everything’s about to get a lot more tactical, with system changes and counter-changes in the middle of games, and the teams who do best will be the ones who have built out the most options and flexibility. If our interest in Tielemans has cooled I think it will be for other reasons.

[I am invisible]

Yes that's what seems to be happening, and we shouldn't be spooked by other clubs doing business. Still plenty of time. I do wonder though whether the club would need to find a buyer for Xhaka in order to sign Tielemans?
Could be that? Or it could be his representatives causing problems? Maybe a more interesting option has come on the market? Could be lots of things. I still think we’ll want a left-sided 6/8 though.

[Gooner23]

Sounds like us, Chelsea and the spuds are all in for Raphinha, with Barca priced out of the move. Leeds must be rubbing their hands together at a bidding war.

At 65 million I think he'll end up at Chelsea. Hopefully we can get the Gabriel Jesus deal wrapped up quickly though.

[Gooner23]

Could be that? Or it could be his representatives causing problems? Maybe a more interesting option has come on the market? Could be lots of things. I still think we’ll want a left-sided 6/8 though.

On the Arsecast this week Gunnerblog suggested the Tielemans deal is likely to depend on Xhaka going out, and there doesn't seem to be any concrete links on that.

[Chippy]

Sounds like us, Chelsea and the spuds are all in for Raphinha, with Barca priced out of the move. Leeds must be rubbing their hands together at a bidding war.

At 65 million I think he'll end up at Chelsea. Hopefully we can get the Gabriel Jesus deal wrapped up quickly though.

Raphina is not worth £65m.

As you say, lets just get Jesus over the line and look elsewhere for other signings.

[Marc Overmars]

Kalvin Phillips is going to City.

Leeds probably know there’s a good chance they’ll go down if they sell Raphina too.

[mandela8]

Kalvin Phillips is going to City.

Leeds probably know there’s a good chance they’ll go down if they sell Raphina too.

Dunno, man.

That'll generate well over 100m, you'd assume, for a new(ish) manager to build a team that was hugely reliant on those two plus a fit Bamford. There's upside to such a shift, potentially.

[LDG]

Kalvin Phillips is going to City.

Leeds probably know there’s a good chance they’ll go down if they sell Raphina too.

I would put 65m on the table for that forest right back that shat all over us (spence)

Full backs are crucial for us this season

[Chippy]

I would put 65m on the table for that forest right back that shat all over us (spence)

Full backs are crucial for us this season

Spot on!
I would also bite City's arm off if they offer £40m for Tierney. He is always injured.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12634974/gabriel-jesus-arsenal-agree-deal-in-principle-for-manchester-city-striker

Ornstein on it too.

[I am invisible]

Outstanding.

[I am invisible]

I would put 65m on the table for that forest right back that shat all over us (spence)

Full backs are crucial for us this season
Mate, everyone shats all over us / has their breakout game against us - that’s just our thing. I wouldn’t pay big money for anyone based on that!

[I am invisible]

RB is pretty well covered now anyway. White and Saliba can both fill in for Tomi, and we have a player coming through in Brooke Norton Cuffy who looks very similar to Spence - if Tomi, White and Saliba aren’t enough then I reckon we’ll probably keep Cedric or AMN around for one more year as a 4th choice while BNC goes out on another loan, probably to a Championship side.

LB competition is what we’re desperately short of!

[Marc Overmars]

Business coming along nicely. Get everyone in so they can have a pre-season together, before the inevitable defeat at Palace…

[Gooner23]

Business coming along nicely. Get everyone in so they can have a pre-season together, before the inevitable defeat at Palace…

If the club deliver on all the reported targets you have to hand it to them. After all the years of dithering we're now just getting shit done and paying what it takes. Only a few remnants of the old regime left to clear now as well.

[Gooner23]

RB is pretty well covered now anyway. White and Saliba can both fill in for Tomi, and we have a player coming through in Brooke Norton Cuffy who looks very similar to Spence - if Tomi, White and Saliba aren’t enough then I reckon we’ll probably keep Cedric or AMN around for one more year as a 4th choice while BNC goes out on another loan, probably to a Championship side.

LB competition is what we’re desperately short of!

Yeah I don't think we'll be seeing another RB until Cedric is off the books, and that will probably be at the end of his contract because no one is giving him what he earns now.

Hopefully Norton Cuffy can be the next breakthrough from the academy, makes sense for him to get another year on loan somewhere.

[Gooner23]

Ornstein just tweeted we're now leading the race for Raphinha. Would be excellent to beat the spuds to another of their targets, so much for the champs league pull!

[dazthegooner]

Ornstein just tweeted we're now leading the race for Raphinha. Would be excellent to beat the spuds to another of their targets, so much for the champs league pull!

Yep and we all know that after the first 6 matches in the champions league if they're lucky the spuds might make it into the Europa league.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

RB is pretty well covered now anyway. White and Saliba can both fill in for Tomi, and we have a player coming through in Brooke Norton Cuffy who looks very similar to Spence - if Tomi, White and Saliba aren’t enough then I reckon we’ll probably keep Cedric or AMN around for one more year as a 4th choice while BNC goes out on another loan, probably to a Championship side.

LB competition is what we’re desperately short of!

We still have to work out what we're going to do with Bellerin too!

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t know whether Gabriel and Raphinia are the answer to our attacking issues but they are both decent players and helps us build up a Brazillian contingent (three of who will have the same first name)

I have to say though I’m not impressed with the Fabio Vieira signing it’s money spent on an area when what we desperately need is a central midfielder who can operate deep and can carry the ball forward…that player was Tielemans

To be honest I don’t really give a fuck about full backs, dropping Tavares at the first sign of a dodgy performance when plenty of full backs his age are good going forward but a bit rum defensively is not a good way of building confidence

[selassie]

Business coming along nicely. Get everyone in so they can have a pre-season together, before the inevitable defeat at Palace…

:lol:

[selassie]

If the club deliver on all the reported targets you have to hand it to them. After all the years of dithering we're now just getting shit done and paying what it takes. Only a few remnants of the old regime left to clear now as well.

Yeah not going to lie, we are moving decisive in the market this summer. No messing about, identifying targets and negotiating progressively. So far so good, I’ve actually got confidence we are going to really try for our other targets too. Exciting times.

[selassie]

Ornstein just tweeted we're now leading the race for Raphinha. Would be excellent to beat the spuds to another of their targets, so much for the champs league pull!

I think Edu has been working on Raphinha in the background. I think the fact we have Edu there and have secured Jesus will really help in our pursuit of Raphinha. I don’t personally think he should be a priority signing but it will be impressive if we secure him considering the interest. It would be a real statement signing IMO

I like Raphinha, he is a very good player, he would no doubt improve us.

[mandela8]

I don’t know whether Gabriel and Raphinia are the answer to our attacking issues but they are both decent players and helps us build up a Brazillian contingent (three of who will have the same first name)

I have to say though I’m not impressed with the Fabio Vieira signing it’s money spent on an area when what we desperately need is a central midfielder who can operate deep and can carry the ball forward…that player was Tielemans

To be honest I don’t really give a fuck about full backs, dropping Tavares at the first sign of a dodgy performance when plenty of full backs his age are good going forward but a bit rum defensively is not a good way of building confidence

Vieira may be that CM. I'm naw sure anyone quite knows what his role will be.

The biggest issue with the squad is that it lacks creativity and goals. From the little we know it looks like he helps with this.

Partey can take the ball from deep and move forward too.
Lokonga should be more involved too. I'd quite like Telemiens too but I don't think it's as important as you seem to, Serf.

[Globalgunner]

Have we sold Xhaka yet?. Best business of the season that would be

[I am invisible]

We still have to work out what we're going to do with Bellerin too!
Along with about 10 or 11 others.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Vieira may be that CM. I'm naw sure anyone quite knows what his role will be.

The biggest issue with the squad is that it lacks creativity and goals. From the little we know it looks like he helps with this.

Partey can take the ball from deep and move forward too.
Lokonga should be more involved too. I'd quite like Telemiens too but I don't think it's as important as you seem to, Serf.

You’re a very silly individual, but that’s ok because there’s plenty of people like that on here

Partey doesn’t have the skill with the ball at his feet and neither it appears does Vieira, Tielemans does…

Simply expecting a player to offer up balls to the attacking third when they aren’t that good on the ball is just a form of masochism

[Chippy]

Yep and we all know that after the first 6 matches in the champions league if they're lucky the spuds might make it into the Europa league.

We gotta be careful what we say on the scum's CL hopes. Cunte has a decent pedigree.

[mandela8]

You’re a very silly individual, but that’s ok because there’s plenty of people like that on here

Partey doesn’t have the skill with the ball at his feet and neither it appears does Vieira, Tielemans does…

Simply expecting a player to offer up balls to the attacking third when they aren’t that good on the ball is just a form of masochism

You don't think Partey has skill?

The way he takes a ball and rolls a defender in one fluid movement is lovely. He's the only player, other than Odegaard who even attempts passes between lines.

I've not even seen Vieira playing, and neither have you, but ima reserve judgement. Although, it's pretty fuckin obvious he has been brought in for his skill with the ball at his feet, ffs.

You're a right weird cunt, man. Nothing wrong with it. Common among men with such small willies. Takes a bit of getting used to though.

[I am invisible]

Vieira may be that CM. I'm naw sure anyone quite knows what his role will be.

The biggest issue with the squad is that it lacks creativity and goals. From the little we know it looks like he helps with this.

Partey can take the ball from deep and move forward too.
Lokonga should be more involved too. I'd quite like Telemiens too but I don't think it's as important as you seem to, Serf.
I’m starting to come round to the idea [of Vieira as the second 8]. In some games, at least - if we play both him and Ødegaard all the time then we’re back to the same problem of having no cover for either. But I could see if working in the right circumstances.

I think a lot will depend on what we do at LB. Generally speaking you always want to attack with at least 5 players - one for each ‘lane’ - and up until now one of our 5 has always been an overlapping LB. We’ve either had a double-pivot with 4 up top or we’ve had Xhaka as the left-8, who’s more likely to drop to support Partey so we’ve needed an extra man from somewhere else. If we go for someone like Martinez at LB though, I’m wondering if we’ll see more of straight spilt? The front 5 stay forward and the back 5 stay back, with Martinez and/or Tomi (or even White) stepping forward to bracket Partey when we attack. All of those defenders are well capable of distributing from deep.

[Letters]

I think Partey has been a disappointment given his price tag.
That said I did see a stat about points per game when Partey has played vs when he hasn’t and we did a lot better with him last season.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We gotta be careful what we say on the scum's CL hopes. Cunte has a decent pedigree.

No he doesn't. He has a dire record in the Champions League.

[Gooner23]

No he doesn't. He has a dire record in the Champions League.

They have two of the best players in the league and still win fuck all. It is the history of the Tottenham.

[mandela8]

I think Partey has been a disappointment given his price tag.
That said I did see a stat about points per game when Partey has played vs when he hasn’t and we did a lot better with him last season.
I seen the same stat but I'd normally ridicule such stats as there's just so many other variables. But, as I've said, Partey is our best player by such a wide distance it actually staggers me that people don't see it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPwXPsPXoAEQEXx?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Letters]

I guess for me for that price I was expecting an absolute superstar and I haven’t really seen that in him. But maybe given the craziness of the market I should adjust that expectation.
As a player I prefer Odegard (no, I can’t be bothered checking how to spell that)

[HCZ_Reborn]

I seen the same stat but I'd normally ridicule such stats as there's just so many other variables. But, as I've said, Partey is our best player by such a wide distance it actually staggers me that people don't see it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPwXPsPXoAEQEXx?format=jpg&name=900x900

Even if that were close to being true and I don’t think it is, of what use is it when he’s injured as often as he is

Plus there have been so many games where he’s frankly been shocking. Brighton away, Liverpool away, Everton away….Palace home….so many games in that Autumn period where his passing ability and his discomfort with the high press were used against him.

Yeah I agree with you that it doesn’t help that he gets no support from Xhaka but Xhaka only played in one of those games

He’s not a terrible player, he’s a decent one. Certainly no worse than say Gilberto and I’d rather have him in the team than not have him. But head and shoulders best player I don’t see it.

And to answer your other question does he have skill? He’s not technically brilliant no, nor can he rampage from deep the way a Patrick Vieira could

[Letters]

He’s not a terrible player, he’s a decent one. Certainly no worse than say Gilberto and I’d rather have him in the team than not have him. But head and shoulders best player I don’t see it.
Right. That’s how I feel about him.
He’s fine, but for the amount we paid I was expecting a bit more than that. I’m not seeing it.

[Gooner23]

Jesus a done deal according to all the usual suspects on twitter. Have to hope that Arteta knows the player well enough to have got this one right.

[Chippy]

Jesus a done deal according to all the usual suspects on twitter. Have to hope that Arteta knows the player well enough to have got this one right.

It is by far the best we could have hoped for after fucking up the top four race

[Marc Overmars]

If we can land Martinez, Raphina and maybe Tielemans as well, you’d have to say that is the most exciting transfer window we would have had in as long as anyone can remember.

[IBK]

It is by far the best we could have hoped for after fucking up the top four race

...or you could say otherwise and observe that Jesus is a multiple title winner of great talent in his prime years who has chosen AFC despite the lack of CL football, and therefore clearly belives in what the club is trying to do. A great example of cup half full or empty...

[Marc Overmars]

Matt Turner has signed. (Who?)

Back up keeper so that should mean Leno will be flogged.

[Chippy]

...or you could say otherwise and observe that Jesus is a multiple title winner of great talent in his prime years who has chosen AFC despite the lack of CL football, and therefore clearly belives in what the club is trying to do. A great example of cup half full or empty...

Your could, but I will stick with the former :lol:

I am a "half empty" kind of guy.

[mandela8]

If we can land Martinez, Raphina and maybe Tielemans as well, you’d have to say that is the most exciting transfer window we would have had in as long as anyone can remember.

Aye, that would be an incredible window that I doubt anyone could complain about. Tough to see it happening but it's be a monumental step forward as a squad.

[mandela8]

...or you could say otherwise and observe that Jesus is a multiple title winner of great talent in his prime years who has chosen AFC despite the lack of CL football, and therefore clearly belives in what the club is trying to do. A great example of cup half full or empty...

Aye, I'm naw exactly blown away by Jesus but maybe it's just familiarity with him and that's it's been kinda drawn out.

Taking a more objective look at it, it's seems a really solid signing getting a proven, established, winner in at 25 years old for under 50m.

[Chippy]

Aye, I'm naw exactly blown away by Jesus but maybe it's just familiarity with him and that's it's been kinda drawn out.

Taking a more objective look at it, it's seems a really solid signing getting a proven, established, winner in at 25 years old for under 50m.

A solid signing indeed. ;)

[mandela8]

Still has the stench of what should be rivals cast off though.

[Letters]

Still has the stench of what should be rivals cast off though.

I think we have to accept that we are not City's rivals right now.

[IBK]

Still has the stench of what should be rivals cast off though.

Every other player signed is someone else's cast off...

[mandela8]

I think we have to accept that we are not City's rivals right now.

Clearly.

And we won't be any time soon, signing their cast offs.

I think that's a bit of the perception, not my own necessarily, hence the lack of excitement around what is a pretty huge signing.

[Marc Overmars]

We’re signing a striker that’s scored 13 and 14 goals in his previous 2 seasons, so that’s why it kind of feels like a “let’s wait and see” type of signing. Think we’re all on the same page though in thinking that his best is yet to come. You can see why on the outside it doesn’t seem like a ground breaking move though.

For me it’s more about transforming our attack with 3 or 4 players because there’s no doubt our existing set up needs a massive upgrade and judging by our movements so far Arteta and Edu feel the same.

[mandela8]

We’re signing a striker that’s scored 13 and 14 goals in his previous 2 seasons, so that’s why it kind of feels like a “let’s wait and see” type of signing. Think we’re all on the same page though in thinking that his best is yet to come. You can see why on the outside it doesn’t seem like a ground breaking move though.

For me it’s more about transforming our attack with 3 or 4 players because there’s no doubt our existing set up needs a massive upgrade and judging by our movements so far Arteta and Edu feel the same.

This is pretty much spot on, man.

I think Raphinha signing would be pretty huge though, tbh. A real statement. I know some others have reservations but I like him. Seems like a bit of a nasty little prick too, which would be wonderful in this team.

[Letters]

Clearly.

And we won't be any time soon, signing their cast offs.

I think that's a bit of the perception, not my own necessarily, hence the lack of excitement around what is a pretty huge signing.

I see things like this as a stepping stone. We were close to Top 4 last year, we should have got it really. If signings like that can push us on in to the Top 4 then that opens up a different level of signing. Even City didn't get there in one season, when they turned the infinite money cheat on it took them a few years to get to the top. Top 4 or bust for me next year.

[mandela8]

I see things like this as a stepping stone. We were close to Top 4 last year, we should have got it really. If signings like that can push us on in to the Top 4 then that opens up a different level of signing. Even City didn't get there in one season, when they turned the infinite money cheat on it took them a few years to get to the top. Top 4 or bust for me next year.

Yep, we were Partey's injury away from the top 4, imo. And that was with one of the worst front 3's in the league.

Really shows how poor the EPL is, outside of the top 2.

[IBK]

Yep, we were Partey's injury away from the top 4, imo. And that was with one of the worst front 3's in the league.

Really shows how poor the EPL is, outside of the top 2.

...and yet EPL teams (plus Rangers) were represented at the sharp end of the CL; Europa and Europa Conference leagues this season - taken together the most representatives of any European league. Plus the EPL has arguably more of Europe's most celebrated managers than any European league and is at least par when it comes to playing talent. A stretch to argue that the EPL is so poor.

[Marc Overmars]

Newcastle are interested Raphinha now apparently. :lol:

[mandela8]

...and yet EPL teams (plus Rangers) were represented at the sharp end of the CL; Europa and Europa Conference leagues this season - taken together the most representatives of any European league. Plus the EPL has arguably more of Europe's most celebrated managers than any European league and is at least par when it comes to playing talent. A stretch to argue that the EPL is so poor.
I watch it every week.

It's abysmal, man.

The money involved in that league and the standard of the product is embarrassing.

[IBK]

I watch it every week.

It's abysmal, man.

The money involved in that league and the standard of the product is embarrassing.

Erm, OK - let's just dispense with the clear evidence and go with the gut, eh :cool:

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t know what he’d be comparing it to, in terms of strength of depth what league is stronger than the premier league?

La Liga? Both Real and Barca are broke and still trying to do the whole super league thing. But none of the other teams can really break the hegemony.

The Bundesliga Where Bayern have just won their 10th title in a row

Serie A ??? Maybe up to the mid 1990s

In the UCL there’s been an English club in the final four out of the last five seasons with two wins

[mandela8]

Erm, OK - let's just dispense with the clear evidence and go with the gut, eh :cool:

What clear evidence?

That some of the top teams make it to the latter stages of the Euro competitions sometimes?

So fuck.

Upper middle to bottom are atrocious and this arsenal team finishing 5th says it all. It's, by far, the worst Arsenal team I've seen in over 20 years and it was in contention for 4th until the last game of the season, ffs. Crazy.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The strength of a league is relative to any other league and there’s no evidence that any other league is stronger than ours

So you could be making the argument that the overall quality of footballers currently is not great (it’s not an argument I am unsympathetic to, whilst the fact that Ronaldo or Messi have been winners of the balllon d’or for years either suggests there is a lack of imagination on FIFA’s part or that we don’t have the top quality footballers that we used to)

The fact that a lot of teams have struggled to get themselves a top striker (City, Us, United, Chelsea) tends to indicate that they are at a premium

But similarly I think City and Liverpool are sides with an embarrassment of riches just on their own, and would best most other club sides on the continent on their day

[Marc Overmars]

Jesus medical is done and an announcement is imminent. :bow:

We’re also expected to bid 35m for Martinez.

[Mac76]

It's, by far, the worst Arsenal team I've seen in over 20 years and it was in contention for 4th until the last game of the season, ffs. Crazy.

come on, it's a better team than when we had a defence made up of Mustafi, Kola and Luiz, and Willian starting every game...

[HCZ_Reborn]

Jesus medical is done and an announcement is imminent. :bow:

We’re also expected to bid 35m for Martinez.

I don’t really get the Martinez signing, 35 million for a left back/central defender. This is money that needs to be spent on central midfield

Another season with Xhaka will give me an aneurysm

Plus Saliba, Gabriel and White in central defence. If we play Tavares in the group stages of the Europa league that’s not going to be an issue with overplaying Tierney. And actually if anything we need right back cover as Cedric is awful, at least Tavares for his defensive and positioning fuck ups has pace

[mandela8]

come on, it's a better team than when we had a defence made up of Mustafi, Kola and Luiz, and Willian starting every game...

That team had some attacking threat, at least.

The front 3s Arsenal have been fielding this season are abysmal.

[mandela8]

I don’t really get the Martinez signing, 35 million for a left back/central defender. This is money that needs to be spent on central midfield

Another season with Xhaka will give me an aneurysm

Plus Saliba, Gabriel and White in central defence. If we play Tavares in the group stages of the Europa league that’s not going to be an issue with overplaying Tierney. And actually if anything we need right back cover as Cedric is awful, at least Tavares for his defensive and positioning fuck ups has pace

Agreed here, tbh. He's also 5 9", ffs.

Imagine him and White as a pairing??

I said earlier that it only makes sense if he can actually play CM. Even then, I'd much rather an actual CM.

Just seems a lot of money for a player to not be first choice in any position.

I'd leave the defense as it is, tbh. I'd play White at RB ahead of Cedric, who's fuckin horrible, and Saka at LB, if Taveres is really off. Plenty of CBs there already.

Every penny should be spent on the MF or front 3.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah I don’t get it either, you have to think that maybe the club just consider him an exceptional talent? I guess if Tavares is loaned out then we’ll definitely need another LB option as Tierney can’t be relied on to complete a whole season.

Maybe Holding could be sold to pave way too?

[Marc Overmars]

Ornstein says Chelsea are close to agreeing a 55m deal with Leeds for Raphinha.

:rose:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Agreed here, tbh. He's also 5 9", ffs.

Imagine him and White as a pairing??

I said earlier that it only makes sense if he can actually play CM. Even then, I'd much rather an actual CM.

Just seems a lot of money for a player to not be first choice in any position.

I'd leave the defense as it is, tbh. I'd play White at RB ahead of Cedric, who's fuckin horrible, and Saka at LB, if Taveres is really off. Plenty of CBs there already.

Every penny should be spent on the MF or front 3.


Yep this

[Chippy]

Ornstein says Chelsea are close to agreeing a 55m deal with Leeds for Raphinha.

:rose:

Yep. On SSN now.
That's a shame really, we could have done with him.
Oh well, on to the 5'9 centre back from Ajax.

[mandela8]

Ornstein says Chelsea are close to agreeing a 55m deal with Leeds for Raphinha.

:rose:

Fuck sake.

Should've known that was too good to be true.

ARTETA/EDU OUT!!!!

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah shame really, had allowed myself to get all giddy.

Hope we’ve got another energetic winger scouted.

[I am invisible]

Shame - thought we might be able to nip in there before anyone else got their shit together, but we're not going to win a straight shoot out with Chelsea atm. Not unless we have an edge (like the player having previous with the coach).

At least Edu and Arteta have shown their hand on this one now - we all know they want a wide forward and are prepared to spend big on it - so who's the next target?

[Chippy]

Shame - thought we might be able to nip in there before anyone else got their shit together, but we're not going to win a straight shoot out with Chelsea atm. Not unless we have an edge (like the player having previous with the coach).

At least Edu and Arteta have shown their hand on this one now - we all know they want a wide forward and are prepared to spend big on it - so who's the next target?

Alexis Sanchez :bow:

[Mac76]

That team had some attacking threat, at least.

The front 3s Arsenal have been fielding this season are abysmal.

nothing wrong with Martinelli or Saka - it's been the central player that we don't have

[HCZ_Reborn]

nothing wrong with Martinelli or Saka - it's been the central player that we don't have

No but the point is we don’t have any real cover for that position. Saka especially was overused and came close to breaking down. Martinelli did get injured for short periods. We have cover for the central striker position Gabriel the main option with Eddie N as back up.

Smith Rowe can play wide but both he and Odegaard operate in the hole

Essentially if we get rid of Pepe our only option is Reiss Nelson

[IBK]

nothing wrong with Martinelli or Saka - it's been the central player that we don't have

Yep - I do take the point about cover for Saka (and maybe Rapinha didn't fancy being a back up to a player many regard as our crown jewel) but at least we have a first team option already in his position. I'd also say that our priority is central - to cover for our inevitable loss of Partey for some of the season. That said - I do want to see Lokonga get the playing time he needs this season, so don't want us to be too oversupplied there.

[IBK]

What clear evidence?

That some of the top teams make it to the latter stages of the Euro competitions sometimes?

So fuck.

Upper middle to bottom are atrocious and this arsenal team finishing 5th says it all. It's, by far, the worst Arsenal team I've seen in over 20 years and it was in contention for 4th until the last game of the season, ffs. Crazy.

Well - that is clear evidence of the relative strengths of the different leagues (and probably the only empirical evidence there is). Plus money talks in football - and generally speaking more money = better players.

I'd wager that the lower half of all Europe's top leagues aren't up to much by your own subjective and observational criteria - give or take any personal preferences in terms of style of play.

[Marc Overmars]

nothing wrong with Martinelli or Saka - it's been the central player that we don't have

For all Martinelli’s energy and positions he gets himself into, his end product is actually quite poor. He’s potentially a beast of a player but really needs to sharpen up in the final third.

[mandela8]

nothing wrong with Martinelli or Saka - it's been the central player that we don't have

:haha:

Jesus fuckin Christ.

Absolutely clueless, man. Honestly.

Thank fuck Arteta seems to know better than idiot fans.

...just.

[mandela8]

For all Martinelli’s energy and positions he gets himself into, his end product is actually quite poor. He’s potentially a beast of a player but really needs to sharpen up in the final third.

His end product is appalling, man.

Same with Saka, who's numbers don't look too bad over last season, but the sheer volume of opportunity it took for him to achieve even that was shocking and the chances that died at his feet was insane. Real difference making stuff, unfortunately.

That said, that wee bit of composure and ruthlessness is often one of the last things to develop or level up from youth level, so hopefully both are better next season. Same with Nketiah and ESR. All 4 of them should be looking to kick on after having a solid season or two under their belts.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Martinelli’s finishing was incredibly suspect given the opportunities he made for himself. And this is a player I really enjoy watching because of his raw pace, ability to skin defenders and create things.

I must confess despite disagreeing with you about Saka, it will be interesting to see what his goal scoring tally will be when we aren’t playing with Lacazette up front. If he gets into double figures again brilliant but no guarantee of that.

[mandela8]

Martinelli’s finishing was incredibly suspect given the opportunities he made for himself. And this is a player I really enjoy watching because of his raw pace, ability to skin defenders and create things.

I must confess despite disagreeing with you about Saka, it will be interesting to see what his goal scoring tally will be when we aren’t playing with Lacazette up front. If he gets into double figures again brilliant but no guarantee of that.

People seem to think I'm harsh on Saka, but I'm just being objective, man.

I think an good striker helps everyone, tbh. Odegaard particularly was victim of the profligacy of the front 3, but Saka and Martinelli suffered too. From the chances they created being wasted to Laca...to the chances they never had the opportunity to create because Laca was 30 yards behind the play to having a proper CF creating space and occupying defenders for them to there just being less pressure on them to deliver the goals Laca wasn't.

I'm hopeful Saka and Martinelli level up next season due to being in a better team and a little more experience.

[HCZ_Reborn]

People seem to think I'm harsh on Saka, but I'm just being objective, man.

I think an good striker helps everyone, tbh. Odegaard particularly was victim of the profligacy of the front 3, but Saka and Martinelli suffered too. From the chances they created being wasted to Laca...to the chances they never had the opportunity to create because Laca was 30 yards behind the play to having a proper CF creating space and occupying defenders for them to there just being less pressure on them to deliver the goals Laca wasn't.

I'm hopeful Saka and Martinelli level up next season due to being in a better team and a little more experience.


I don’t think calling Saka shit is especially objective and you have done that. I think some of your criticisms of him are actually fair I just don’t think they amount to him being shit. If you’re saying he’s not the finished product well I certainly hope not.
For me the players in our team last year who were consistently shit were Xhaka, Cedric and Tavares (but to be honest I’d even give him the benefit of the doubt as he’s young)

Odegaard? I actually think he suffers more from the lack of quality behind him. Partey as you say did drive forward but it wasn’t his natural role he isn’t a Patrick Vieira type he’s more of a Petit/Gilberto figure who needs a Vieira or at least someone who can make driving runs alongside him. Xhaka isn’t a defensive player, his tackling is suspect, his positional play poor and he needs too much time on the ball to get it onto his left foot to make passes. Giving him a new contract was the worst panic move we’ve seen from this club.

Odegaard is a player who receives the ball higher up the pitch, he’s good technically and he’s good at through balls and link up play with Saka. But when he wasn’t getting the ball quickly it was easy to close him down and take him out of the game and you see that where we are hesitant to bring the ball forward in the centre of the pitch Odegaard is a passenger. It’s the same for Smith Rowe who I think has less technical ability than Odegaard.

I honestly believe that even with the obscene money in the game that largely priced us out of title challenges, I think the biggest mistake Wenger made was turning down the chance to sign Yaya Toure at around the time Vieira left. You could see that the nearest he got to replicating that player was Abou Diaby.

[mandela8]

I don’t think calling Saka shit is especially objective and you have done that. I think some of your criticisms of him are actually fair I just don’t think they amount to him being shit. If you’re saying he’s not the finished product well I certainly hope not.
For me the players in our team last year who were consistently shit were Xhaka, Cedric and Tavares (but to be honest I’d even give him the benefit of the doubt as he’s young)

Odegaard? I actually think he suffers more from the lack of quality behind him. Partey as you say did drive forward but it wasn’t his natural role he isn’t a Patrick Vieira type he’s more of a Petit/Gilberto figure who needs a Vieira or at least someone who can make driving runs alongside him. Xhaka isn’t a defensive player, his tackling is suspect, his positional play poor and he needs too much time on the ball to get it onto his left foot to make passes. Giving him a new contract was the worst panic move we’ve seen from this club.

Odegaard is a player who receives the ball higher up the pitch, he’s good technically and he’s good at through balls and link up play with Saka. But when he wasn’t getting the ball quickly it was easy to close him down and take him out of the game and you see that where we are hesitant to bring the ball forward in the centre of the pitch Odegaard is a passenger. It’s the same for Smith Rowe who I think has less technical ability than Odegaard.

I honestly believe that even with the obscene money in the game that largely priced us out of title challenges, I think the biggest mistake Wenger made was turning down the chance to sign Yaya Toure at around the time Vieira left. You could see that the nearest he got to replicating that player was Abou Diaby.

Agreed with most of that but I absolutely would add Saka to the shit list.

Look, other than a few eye catching moments he disappears for huge parts of games.

He's not actually very good at anything. Not a great dribbler, poor passer, abysmal shooter, takes too long to transition, lazy defensively.

That's about as objective as one can be, man.

[mandela8]

Credit where it's due though...Saka is elite at acting like a little bitch every time he gets tackled.

[Letters]

That’s pretty much mandatory in the modern game tbf

[Chippy]

Yeah shame really, had allowed myself to get all giddy.

Hope we’ve got another energetic winger scouted.

I reckon we should try and get Gnabry back.
Didn't like his attitude when he was here years ago, but worth a shot?

[mandela8]

I reckon we should try and get Gnabry back.
Didn't like his attitude when he was here years ago, but worth a shot?

Would much rather someone like Richarlisen, or however you spell it.

Big and strong, attitude, can score even in a poor team, can play across the front free and seems to be available.

[Marc Overmars]

Would much rather someone like Richarlisen, or however you spell it.

Big and strong, attitude, can score even in a poor team, can play across the front free and seems to be available.

He’s off to Spurs by the sounds of it.

[dazthegooner]

He’s off to Spurs by the sounds of it.

Seems that way seems a good player when he's on his feet :sarcy:

[LDG]

Nasty little cunt that one. Temperamental too. We can do better.

I said it before. Our penetration is oiled by our fullbacks and their ability to get up and down.

If Tierney is out or unfit then we lose so much attacking potential because we lose the ability to flood the final third quckly.

[Chippy]

He’s off to Spurs by the sounds of it.

Indeed.

I am a bit gutted about that tbh. He personally kept Everton up last season. :(

[Marc Overmars]

Judging by his antics towards Liverpool, there’s no doubt we’ve got some serious shithousing coming our way from him.

[Letters]

Our penetration is oiled.
##

[Gooner23]

Judging by his antics towards Liverpool, there’s no doubt we’ve got some serious shithousing coming our way from him.

Have never liked him so must have known he was a spud in waiting. Him, Son and Kane will bring some elite levels of cheating next season.

[Gooner23]

The Raphinha situation sounds messy. Seems like he really wants Barca, so maybe we are best not to pay 65 million for someone that could be agitating for a move in a year or two.

Would have been an exciting transfer, but I'd have no issues if the club moved on to other targets.

[I am invisible]

Yeah, there's always another player - always. Raphinha sounded like he would have been a good fit, but tbh I didn't even know we were looking at him before last week so I'd be lying if I said this one meant any more or less to me than any other target.

What I do like about it is this has shown our hand - we now know for certain that we want a second forward, we know it's gonna be a wide forward, and we know we're willing to put decent budget behind it.

[Gooner23]

Yeah, there's always another player - always. Raphinha sounded like he would have been a good fit, but tbh I didn't even know we were looking at him before last week so I'd be lying if I said this one meant any more or less to me than any other target.

What I do like about it is this has shown our hand - we now know for certain that we want a second forward, we know it's gonna be a wide forward, and we know we're willing to put decent budget behind it.

Yeah pleased we are looking at some proper cover / competition for Saka. Sounds like we have 40-50 mil which should get us a decent player (you would hope).

[mandela8]

Nasty little cunt that one. Temperamental too. We can do better.

I said it before. Our penetration is oiled by our fullbacks and their ability to get up and down.

If Tierney is out or unfit then we lose so much attacking potential because we lose the ability to flood the final third quckly.

Tommy is embarrassingly shit going forward. Absolute coward on the ball. Lost count of the times he had am opportunity to play a pass forward, through a line and EVERY time he opted to turn back or inside to lay it off.

[mandela8]

He’s off to Spurs by the sounds of it.

Like Raphinha was off to Arsenal??

Maybe I just like him as I don't know if many alternatives though, tbh.

He's a nasty cunt too...which I like and we definitely need some of.

[Chippy]

Tommy is embarrassingly shit going forward. Absolute coward on the ball. Lost count of the times he had am opportunity to play a pass forward, through a line and EVERY time he opted to turn back or inside to lay it off.

I don't normally agree with your comments. However, because Tommy is slightly better than the rubbish we have had before him, he is treated like a god.

Bang average imho (and forever injured).

[Mac76]

https://twitter.com/officialsimcard/status/1542478247635599361

[selassie]

The Raphinha situation sounds messy. Seems like he really wants Barca, so maybe we are best not to pay 65 million for someone that could be agitating for a move in a year or two.

Would have been an exciting transfer, but I'd have no issues if the club moved on to other targets.

What's more worrying is we seem to keep chasing players that don't want to come here or at least not with other teams interested. I get that we should be ambitious and go for the best players available but are they available if they don't want to come here?!

[selassie]

Martinelli’s finishing was incredibly suspect given the opportunities he made for himself. And this is a player I really enjoy watching because of his raw pace, ability to skin defenders and create things.

I must confess despite disagreeing with you about Saka, it will be interesting to see what his goal scoring tally will be when we aren’t playing with Lacazette up front. If he gets into double figures again brilliant but no guarantee of that.

Martinelli is still a bit of a headless chicken and very rash with his decision making and finishing at times. He has high potential but I don't think we can rely on him as a bonafide starter next season, same with ESR, they should be used as quality rotation options. Saka is clearly a key player, he has flaws but his numbers are decent. I still think we need to address Central Midfield as a priority, we need another wide player...but that should come after Central Midfield and cover for left back, maybe even right back too depending on Cedric's situation.

[mandela8]

Martinelli is still a bit of a headless chicken and very rash with his decision making and finishing at times. He has high potential but I don't think we can rely on him as a bonafide starter next season, same with ESR, they should be used as quality rotation options. Saka is clearly a key player, he has flaws but his numbers are decent. I still think we need to address Central Midfield as a priority, we need another wide player...but that should come after Central Midfield and cover for left back, maybe even right back too depending on Cedric's situation.

I'd say it's close but, assuming Vieira can play that 8 role then a winger is the priority for me. Particularly right wing, with Pepe being our best option, by some distance.

Martinelli and ESR on the left isn't great but it'll do and Saka can come from his backup LB role to fill in as a winger in an emergency, for me.

[Chippy]

He’s off to Spurs by the sounds of it.

I am a bit nervous about the Spuds next year. They are getting stronger in depth and already have Kane and Son. Very annoying.

[mandela8]

I am a bit nervous about the Spuds next year. They are getting stronger in depth and already have Kane and Son. Very annoying.

Aye, a front 3 of Son Kane and Richarlison is top, top quality.

[Chippy]

Aye, a front 3 of Son Kane and Richarlison is top, top quality.

Not taking the piss but top quality back up.

[LDG]

Tommy is embarrassingly shit going forward. Absolute coward on the ball. Lost count of the times he had am opportunity to play a pass forward, through a line and EVERY time he opted to turn back or inside to lay it off.

Absafuckinlutely

Hence my comment that we need to look at fullbacks rather than mediocre crap from Everton

We have problems either side. Tommy, Cedric, Braveheart and Lord Flashheart. Bollocks (other than a fit Tierney). We’ll get fucked again if we don’t recruit there before singing average shit

[Chippy]

Aye, a front 3 of Son Kane and Richarlison is top, top quality.

I am still pissed off that we let them get fourth. This is why they are attracting good players and have funds available.
God forbid if they won the Champions League.

[I am invisible]

3/4s of our fullback options are decent - the problem we had last season was we built a system that needed one defensive FB to balance a more offence FB on the other side, and we only had one defensive option. So all good as long as Tomi was fit - even Nuno looked like a monster in the making before Christmas - but as soon as we lost him we had nothing but attacking FBs to choose from. For a while we slid White across to play there - not ideal, but it provided a balance, and even Cedric didn’t look awful (for Cedric) when we told Tierney to stay back - it had an effect in Tierney’s game, but again it provided a kind of balance. But when we lost Tierney, and then Partey as the shield in front of them, and then White, the defence finally crumbled.

Let’s not forget, though, when had our best back 5/6 available we were breaking records for clean sheets, so there’s nothing too much wrong with those starting options. I don’t even have a problem with Nuno - he’s a bit raw, but at least he has a high ceiling. I’d take him over Cedric any day, who is as good now as he’ll ever be and will never get any better. What we need is depth, especially for our defensive FB options.

Saliba actually goes some way to addressing that - he’s played RB himself a fair bit or he allows us to slide white across to cover. And Martinez sounds like he would be a really smart buy too - he’d give us that defensive option on the left allowing us to play a more offensive RB (and if he can also provide better depth for Partey then that really would be a good move). Also, the additions of Saliba and Martinez would increase the chances of playing a back 3 when needed - in that situation we can get away with two all-out attacking FBs.

[I am invisible]

Need to stop pissing around with these incremental Martinez bids now if he’s the guy we want. I don’t mind haggling when the talks are secret and we’re the only bidder, but if United are sniffing around then we need to just pony up the extra 6m, or whatever it is, and get it done.

Also I have an alarmingly short attention span because of the internet and I’m starting to get bored.

[Chippy]

Need to stop pissing around with these incremental Martinez bids now if he’s the guy we want. I don’t mind haggling when the talks are secret and we’re the only bidder, but if United are sniffing around then we need to just pony up the extra 6m, or whatever it is, and get it done.

Also I have an alarmingly short attention span because of the internet and I’m starting to get bored.

Spot on!!!

If we need him, just spend the money ffs.

We don't want to go down the "£40m and a penny" road :rolleyes:

[Letters]

We don't want to go down the "£40m and a penny" road :rolleyes:
It was £40m and a pound. We're not cheap :sulk:

[I am invisible]

When Arsenal knock on a player's door it's a different knock than other clubs.

It's a silent knock.

It's no knock.

[Letters]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca3kPemW2CE

[I am invisible]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca3kPemW2CE

All of those cozy little 'arm around the shoulder' chats Edu has with players suddenly look very different.

[IBK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca3kPemW2CE

Great scene - I'd forgotten about Heisenberg, and Skylar...and Brad :(

[Chippy]

It was £40m and a pound. We're not cheap :sulk:

:haha:

My apologies for the error, Sir :tiphat:

[mandela8]

3/4s of our fullback options are decent - the problem we had last season was we built a system that needed one defensive FB to balance a more offence FB on the other side, and we only had one defensive option. So all good as long as Tomi was fit - even Nuno looked like a monster in the making before Christmas - but as soon as we lost him we had nothing but attacking FBs to choose from. For a while we slid White across to play there - not ideal, but it provided a balance, and even Cedric didn’t look awful (for Cedric) when we told Tierney to stay back - it had an effect in Tierney’s game, but again it provided a kind of balance. But when we lost Tierney, and then Partey as the shield in front of them, and then White, the defence finally crumbled.

Let’s not forget, though, when had our best back 5/6 available we were breaking records for clean sheets, so there’s nothing too much wrong with those starting options. I don’t even have a problem with Nuno - he’s a bit raw, but at least he has a high ceiling. I’d take him over Cedric any day, who is as good now as he’ll ever be and will never get any better. What we need is depth, especially for our defensive FB options.

Saliba actually goes some way to addressing that - he’s played RB himself a fair bit or he allows us to slide white across to cover. And Martinez sounds like he would be a really smart buy too - he’d give us that defensive option on the left allowing us to play a more offensive RB (and if he can also provide better depth for Partey then that really would be a good move). Also, the additions of Saliba and Martinez would increase the chances of playing a back 3 when needed - in that situation we can get away with two all-out attacking FBs.

Pretty much agree with all of this.

I also think fullback is the easiest position for youth players to step into. Surely we have a young RB. Norton Cuffy or someone. I'd actually pay Cedric to fuck off. That's how shite he is.

Taveres did look magic when he first broke into the team. Another shocking piece of man management from Arteta that, imo. Managed to turn a blip into a crisis and destroyed his confidence.

[mandela8]

Need to stop pissing around with these incremental Martinez bids now if he’s the guy we want. I don’t mind haggling when the talks are secret and we’re the only bidder, but if United are sniffing around then we need to just pony up the extra 6m, or whatever it is, and get it done.

Also I have an alarmingly short attention span because of the internet and I’m starting to get bored.

Not sure about this Man U intradest. They've just signed the boy Malacia who is a LB. They already have Shaw. So not sure why they'd need Martinez.

Unless...this really means that he does play other positions. At 5 9" I just don't see him as a CB so maybe he is a CM...which would actually have me far keener on him as a signing.

[I am invisible]

Pretty much agree with all of this.

I also think fullback is the easiest position for youth players to step into. Surely we have a young RB. Norton Cuffy or someone. I'd actually pay Cedric to fuck off. That's how shite he is.

Taveres did look magic when he first broke into the team. Another shocking piece of man management from Arteta that, imo. Managed to turn a blip into a crisis and destroyed his confidence.

Norton Cuffy is why I think we'll probably keep Cedric around for another year - a bit of additional cover while we send him out on a more challenging loan, probably to a Championship side, to finish his development. Hopefully we won't have to see much of Cedric with Tomi, White and Saliba ahead of him.

[Mac76]

Hopefully we won't have to see much of Cedric with Tomi, White and Saliba ahead of him.

i'm not sure Arteta sees it that way - i know White has filled in at RB but not when Cedric is fit i don't think

having said that i hadn't realised Saliba could play at RB, but i just checked and apparently so, in whic case yes, it gives us another good option and maybe he or White can be at RB more permanently

[Mac76]

Thanks and very best of luck Matteo - you actually showed some guts, spirit and determination - too much unfortunately for some lego-haired managers wth a penis-size complex...

https://www.arsenal.com/news/matteo-guendouzi-joins-olympique-marseille

[I am invisible]

Not sure about this Man U intradest. They've just signed the boy Malacia who is a LB. They already have Shaw. So not sure why they'd need Martinez.

Unless...this really means that he does play other positions. At 5 9" I just don't see him as a CB so maybe he is a CM...which would actually have me far keener on him as a signing.

Yeah, I'm not really keen on the idea of him as a CB, although I'd be happy for him to provide a bit of cover there when needed - he might be on the short side, but he's also just won Ajax's POTY award in that role so he must be doing something right.

Everyone loves comparing what we're doing to Man City, and I'm sure I remember one of the Arsenal podcasts making the point that the player in their side who he most closely matches in terms of skill charts and stats is Fernandinho? He certainly has the distribution skills and he also looks extremely calm under pressure, with a lovely sharp change of direction on him... it could work.

My gut-feeling though is we're looking at him as an inverted fullback - that would mean we'd lose the marauding, overlapping fullback down the left, but we'd potentailly gain a left-8 who doesn't have to drop to support Partey?

[mandela8]

Thanks and very best of luck Matteo - you actually showed some guts, spirit and determination - too much unfortunately for some lego-haired managers wth a penis-size complex...

https://www.arsenal.com/news/matteo-guendouzi-joins-olympique-marseille

Strange one this.

I never bought into the hype Gendouzi generated. He was nowhere near as good as Arsenal fans thought he was.

However, he seems to have developed hugely over the last season and fits the profile we seem to be going for. He's definitely now better than both Xhaka and Elneny and won't be on huge wages. His whole situation has been horribly managed by Arteta who does seem like an insecure wee prick.

Both Gendouzi and Torriera are big improvements to the squad. Just weird.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Strange one this.

I never bought into the hype Gendouzi generated. He was nowhere near as good as Arsenal fans thought he was.

However, he seems to have developed hugely over the last season and fits the profile we seem to be going for. He's definitely now better than both Xhaka and Elneny and won't be on huge wages. His whole situation has been horribly managed by Arteta who does seem like an insecure wee prick.

Both Gendouzi and Torriera are big improvements to the squad. Just weird.


Yeah same I never rated him either, it does appear though that he had a good season with Marseille

I think we had a compulsory purchase agreement with Marseille so that particular transfer was set in stone some while back

Think his behaviour was mainly the reason we got rid

Torreira? Yep definitely better than Elneny and Xhaka for me but Arteta didn’t rate him and that formed part of the reason we brought in Partey

[I am invisible]

Lol - Sampaoli’s just resigned!

Matteo :pal:

[Chippy]

The new Vieria signing has been seen wearing a protective boot. :lol:

I see that Harold Shipman is still employed as the club Doctor then :(

[LDG]

Pretty much agree with all of this.

I also think fullback is the easiest position for youth players to step into. Surely we have a young RB. Norton Cuffy or someone. I'd actually pay Cedric to fuck off. That's how shite he is.

Taveres did look magic when he first broke into the team. Another shocking piece of man management from Arteta that, imo. Managed to turn a blip into a crisis and destroyed his confidence.

Let it play out I guess. But I fucking hate the thought of Spence heading to Spurs for next to nothing

[LDG]

3/4s of our fullback options are decent - the problem we had last season was we built a system that needed one defensive FB to balance a more offence FB on the other side, and we only had one defensive option. So all good as long as Tomi was fit - even Nuno looked like a monster in the making before Christmas - but as soon as we lost him we had nothing but attacking FBs to choose from. For a while we slid White across to play there - not ideal, but it provided a balance, and even Cedric didn’t look awful (for Cedric) when we told Tierney to stay back - it had an effect in Tierney’s game, but again it provided a kind of balance. But when we lost Tierney, and then Partey as the shield in front of them, and then White, the defence finally crumbled.

Let’s not forget, though, when had our best back 5/6 available we were breaking records for clean sheets, so there’s nothing too much wrong with those starting options. I don’t even have a problem with Nuno - he’s a bit raw, but at least he has a high ceiling. I’d take him over Cedric any day, who is as good now as he’ll ever be and will never get any better. What we need is depth, especially for our defensive FB options.

Saliba actually goes some way to addressing that - he’s played RB himself a fair bit or he allows us to slide white across to cover. And Martinez sounds like he would be a really smart buy too - he’d give us that defensive option on the left allowing us to play a more offensive RB (and if he can also provide better depth for Partey then that really would be a good move). Also, the additions of Saliba and Martinez would increase the chances of playing a back 3 when needed - in that situation we can get away with two all-out attacking FBs.

We don’t have 3/4

We have 1/4

If you think the standard is Cedric, Tavares and Tommy, then you’re deluded.

Yes, we played with one sitting, one forward….amazing tactics…if only you could get one to sit and one go forward….

Bollocks.

[Chippy]

We don’t have 3/4

We have 1/4

If you think the standard is Cedric, Tavares and Tommy, then you’re deluded.

Yes, we played with one sitting, one forward….amazing tactics…if only you could get one to sit and one go forward….

Bollocks.

LDG, are you becoming as miserable as Quinny and me? 😄

[selassie]

I'd say it's close but, assuming Vieira can play that 8 role then a winger is the priority for me. Particularly right wing, with Pepe being our best option, by some distance.

Martinelli and ESR on the left isn't great but it'll do and Saka can come from his backup LB role to fill in as a winger in an emergency, for me.

Ah, ok then......

[selassie]

Let it play out I guess. But I fucking hate the thought of Spence heading to Spurs for next to nothing

You want more kids?

[LDG]

You want more kids?

Easy fella. Got three of my own.

Take that shit elsewhere

[LDG]

LDG, are you becoming as miserable as Quinny and me? ��

Nah. Just real pal.

I get nobody wants to entertain the fullback point, as it seems we have an abundance of options. Which was why we spent half of last season with Cedric and a fucking uneducated lunatic at fullback.

But yeah, we’re ok there boys. No problem.

[I am invisible]

We don’t have 3/4

We have 1/4

If you think the standard is Cedric, Tavares and Tommy, then you’re deluded.

Yes, we played with one sitting, one forward….amazing tactics…if only you could get one to sit and one go forward….

Bollocks.
Come on mate, let’s not do the ‘standards’ thing. This isn’t about ignoring the fullback issue - this is just a disagreement over Spence, nothing more. I get that you’re a fan of the kid, and you don’t want to see him go to spurs, but for me he’s not a priority - he doesn’t do anything to add to our more defensive FB options and I don’t see that he offers a great deal more than AMN or Norton Cuffy in terms of profile, if we want that more athletic, attacking option down that side.

(I also think you’re putting a lot of faith in a 21yo player from the Championship after a couple of eye-catching games in the cup. He might very well turn out to be the next big thing, but he could also be this year’s Ryan Sessegnon - we don’t know yet. Nuno had a couple of really strong games before Christmas too - form and confidence can come and go quickly at that age.)

Not really sure I get the issue with the ‘one forward, one back’ system? It looked like it was working just fine to me when Tomi was available? I see problems with our FB options, of course I do, but the issues I see and want resolved are that we need like-for-like cover for Tomiyasu, if we’re going to play that way, and we need stronger competition for Tierney. I like Nuno - he’s raw AF, but I think there’s a potentially really good player there waiting to be development - but he becomes more of a problem than he should be because of Tierney’s injuries. By rights we should only have to use him for a game here and a game there at this stage of his development, and it’s not really his fault that we’re forced to rely on him for 4-month stretches at a time, but there you go - that’s the situation and it needs to be dealt with.

Nobody wants Cedric, believe me - my only thought there is that Norton Cuffy looks a year away from being where Spence is now, and Cedric buys us that extra year. Even then I expect him to be 4th choice behind Tomiyasu, White and Saliba, so hopefully we’ll never have to see him.

[I am invisible]

Nah. Just real pal.

I get nobody wants to entertain the fullback point, as it seems we have an abundance of options. Which was why we spent half of last season with Cedric and a fucking uneducated lunatic at fullback.

But yeah, we’re ok there boys. No problem.
The reality is that we’re probably going to buy one fullback at the most this summer and it’s going to be a LB. Forget about Spence - we’re not in for him and it’ll just upset you.

[Marc Overmars]

Spence is going to Spurs as well.

[I am invisible]

Chelsea and Man U are starting to annoy me now - feels like their new owners / managers haven’t had a chance to put any plans together yet so they’re just following us around. Fuck. Off.

[Mac76]

We don’t have 3/4

We have 1/4

If you think the standard is Cedric, Tavares and Tommy, then you’re deluded.

Yes, we played with one sitting, one forward….amazing tactics…if only you could get one to sit and one go forward….

Bollocks.

Have you even watched Tomi play? Ok, he had injury problems but when fit he's one of our best players, if he'd been fit throughout we'd have made top 4 no problem

[I am invisible]

Have you even watched Tomi play? Ok, he had injury problems but when fit he's one of our best players, if he'd been fit throughout we'd have made top 4 no problem
:good:

The type of fullbacks we need come down to those 5 lanes of attack - left, right, centre and the the two half-spaces.

We don’t currently need overlapping RBs because the right attacking lane and the right half-space are covered by Saka and Ødegaard, who drifts to that side. Tomiyasu is a great fit for that side, and we have decent lookalike-cover for him now with White and Saliba.

We do need overlapping LBs (or at least we have up until now) because we’ve either played with a double-pivot or we’ve had Xhaka as the left-8, who is more likely to drop back and cover than attack the box. Martinelli / ESR move into the vacated left half-space and Tierney / Tavares go down the outside.

This is where I find our interest in Martinez really interesting - I’m guessing we’re looking at him as a Man City-inspired inverted LB, so does that mean we’re planning for a more attacking left-8 who we won’t be expecting to drop back as much? 5 defensive players staying back and 5 offensive players staying forward? Or maybe even planning to go with a back 3 more often? We have attacking options there already so it would give us a hell of a lot of flex.

[GP]

Spence is going to Spurs as well.

:shrug:

[selassie]

Easy fella. Got three of my own.

Take that shit elsewhere

:lol:

[Chippy]

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/leicester-city-transfer-tottenham-tielemans-7285023

WTF.

[Marc Overmars]

Sounds like Martinez could be more likely to sign for United, as Ten Hag has the inside track with Ajax.

[I am invisible]

The latest is he’s open to both moves, personal terms won’t be an issue either way and Ajax are going to let him choose. We’re having talks with Ajax this week, apparently.

United will have an edge because of Ten Hag - these things do make a difference, as we saw with Jesus - but I have a feeling the biggest factor will be how and where the two sides want to play him? United very much see him as a CB whereas we’re viewing him more as a LB.

[I am invisible]

Tbh, I don’t won’t to get overly fixated on Martinez - looks a very good player, but I didn’t even know who he was a couple of weeks ago!

As with Raphinha, the more interesting thing to me atm is the confirmation of the type of player we want because that really helps me picture what we’re trying to do. I’m sure there’s plenty of good options out there for either job, and I’m happy to be surprised.

Jesus was the only name I really cared about getting over the line - that felt like more of a unique opportunity for us in an area where there’s very few good options south of 100m.

[I am invisible]

Need to move on from Raphinha now - getting Vlahovic vibes off him, and the price is getting silly.

[I am invisible]

Lol, United are (supposedly) interested in Gnabry now, less than 24hrs after we were (supposedly) said to be interested. This is getting silly now…

[dazthegooner]

I had no idea Arsenal were the designated scouting team for the Premiership :blink:

[Chippy]

Lol, United are (supposedly) interested in Gnabry now, less than 24hrs after we were (supposedly) said to be interested. This is getting silly now…

This is why we need to mover quicker.
Man United are a bunch of ****s though.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Spence is going to Spurs as well.

Louie?

[Chippy]

Louie?

:haha:
I can imagine the warm up!

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’ve come to believe that I think we are trying to offload players before signing new ones. I tend to believe the report that we have agreed personal terms with Tielemans but any deal is subject to offloading Xhaka/Torreira.

[I am invisible]

I had no idea Arsenal were the designated scouting team for the Premiership :blink:
I guess for any club who’s new regime has been there 5 minutes it’s as good a plan as any. Maybe we can goad them into some shit deals?

[I am invisible]

I’ve come to believe that I think we are trying to offload players before signing new ones. I tend to believe the report that we have agreed personal terms with Tielemans but any deal is subject to offloading Xhaka/Torreira.
Maybe, although looking at our squad and our current wage bill I’d say there’s already more than enough scope there to add several more players before we need to sell. There’d bloody well better be, anyway, otherwise there really was no point in not strengthening in January!

My guess is we just have several plates spinning at once and Tielemans is the one that needs the least attention. If he’s told Leicester that he’s not signing an extension and that he only wants Arsenal then we can probably afford to park that one of a week or two and let him go off on his holidays in peace. I know it feels like it’s been dragging forever, but it is very early in the window still.

[I am invisible]

Also on Tielemans, think about what we’re not seeing… where are all the rival offers? We’re talking about a very good, PL-ready central midfielder who’s available at a very reasonable fee so it’s curious that no one else has made a move yet.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

https://www.arsenal.com/news/arsenal-complete-gabriel-jesus-signing

Announced now.

[Marc Overmars]

Best Brazilian in history tbf.

[HCZ_Reborn]

There are two things that seem peculiar to me

1 - the fact that it took seven days to announce the signing despite the fact that everyone knew he’d done his medical and signed a contract last Monday

2 - the amount of twitter morons getting agitated about announcing the signing even though we all knew he’d signed and there was a video of him in the Arsenal shirt

[Chippy]

There are two things that seem peculiar to me

1 - the fact that it took seven days to announce the signing despite the fact that everyone knew he’d done his medical and signed a contract last Monday

2 - the amount of twitter morons getting agitated about announcing the signing even though we all knew he’d signed and there was a video of him in the Arsenal shirt

I was kidding myself that the delay was due to a "Double Signing" announcement :(

We need at least two more signings. Not sure if that is going to happen though.

[KSE Comedy Club]

It's just typical Arsenal - it always takes forever and a day to get anything done, for some inexplicable reason! :unsure:
:

[I am invisible]

I was kidding myself that the delay was due to a "Double Signing" announcement :(

We need at least two more signings. Not sure if that is going to happen though.

It'll happen - we might not end up with the players that we're currently bidding for, but we now know for a fact that we're after another wide forward and whatever it is we see Martinez as, and we know that we're not waiting for sales before we can move.

For me it's just a question of how much longer we're prepared to give the current targets before we move on. Raphinha I'd move on from immediately, if we haven't done so already - that one's starting to feel like Vlahovic all over again. Martinez I'd maybe give another week to see if anything shifts.

[Mac76]

There are two things that seem peculiar to me

1 - the fact that it took seven days to announce the signing despite the fact that everyone knew he’d done his medical and signed a contract last Monday

2 - the amount of twitter morons getting agitated about announcing the signing even though we all knew he’d signed and there was a video of him in the Arsenal shirt

it'll just been have some last legal detail - tracking down someone on a beach somewhere to sign something - no big deal

[mandela8]

Naw even signed anyone today, ffs.

Club's a joke.

[Marc Overmars]

Linked with Milinkovic-Savic. Never heard of him but he’s apparently an all action box to box midfielder.

Sign him up tbh.