Winter Transfer Missed Opportunities and Regrets

[HCZ_Reborn]

I saw this earlier, have to say I’m a bit disappointed in our commercial revenue. Doesn’t feel like we are doing enough to sell replica kits to imbeciles with too much money in south east Asia

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I saw this earlier, have to say I’m a bit disappointed in our commercial revenue. Doesn’t feel like we are doing enough to sell replica kits to imbeciles with too much money in south east Asia

Among our rivals, we are the only top club whose commercial revenue isn't the top driver... but I guess even "imbeciles" in Asia will only pay to wear the kit of teams that actually win trophies.

As for the Spuds, it's clear there stadium is almost paying for itself.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Among our rivals, we are the only top club whose commercial revenue isn't the top driver... but I guess even "imbeciles" in Asia will only pay to wear the kit of teams that actually win trophies.

As for the Spuds, it's clear there stadium is almost paying for itself.

You’d think that was true, but Son is a big commercial boost for Spurs. In fact any premier league club with South Korean players gets a massive fan base in that country just for having that player.

It’s also about doing sponsorship deals with companies. Beers, Spirits, Watches. Having never been to Dubai, I don’t know if we get pushed there as part of our sponsorship deal with Emirates.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

You’d think that was true, but Son is a big commercial boost for Spurs. In fact any premier league club with South Korean players gets a massive fan base in that country just for having that player.

It’s also about doing sponsorship deals with companies. Beers, Spirits, Watches. Having never been to Dubai, I don’t know if we get pushed there as part of our sponsorship deal with Emirates.

TBH, I don't think replica kits are actually a big source of income for any club that isn't named Madrid, Barca or Man U...and anyway the large markets like India, Pakistan, Africa and even China, tend to be almost 90% counterfeits.

Our poor commercial revenue has more to do with our very poor sponsorship deals (been like that for over a decade) and not getting the Emirates as busy hosting events as the Spurs have done for their shiny new toy.

Basically, short sightedness and conservative management as usual.

[HCZ_Reborn]

TBH, I don't think replica kits are actually a big source of income for any club that isn't named Madrid, Barca or Man U...and anyway the large markets like India, Pakistan, Africa and even China, tend to be almost 90% counterfeits.

Our poor commercial revenue has more to do with our very poor sponsorship deals (been like that for over a decade) and not getting the Emirates as busy hosting events as the Spurs have done for their shiny new toy.

Basically, short sightedness and poor management as usual.

The Emirates deal wasn’t necessarily the best deal on the table but it was the most secure one if I recall. I think the fear was that the other companies we were in negotiations with (like Samsung) offered more money but on a shorter term deal and I don’t think we wanted to be scrambling around for a replacement sponsor if anything went south and we were looking to repay our debts.

I think it’s less about being shortsighted and more about being risk adverse. Also in terms of events for the Emirates, we did have that in the first year (Bruce Springsteen concert etc) but ultimately Islington council is very activist and it was hard enough getting them to agree to us building a new stadium to begin with….and we are trying now to see if we can expand the seating capacity but they are being hardline about it. Basically it’s all about saying they don’t want local residents disturbed by the noise and extra crowds

As for why that’s less of an issue for Tottenham, you’d have to ask Harringay council

[Letters]

Robbie Williams is playing at The Emirates this year, fwiw!

[HCZ_Reborn]

Robbie Williams is playing at The Emirates this year, fwiw!

In human or simian form?

But either way the main reason we haven’t had concerts is because Islington council objecting.

So just looking now at the tour dates. Interesting to note that the time for both dates is 16:00, which seems quite early for a concert….and I imagine that was the proviso under which the council acquiesed

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The Emirates deal wasn’t necessarily the best deal on the table but it was the most secure one if I recall. I think the fear was that the other companies we were in negotiations with (like Samsung) offered more money but on a shorter term deal and I don’t think we wanted to be scrambling around for a replacement sponsor if anything went south and we were looking to repay our debts.

I think it’s less about being shortsighted and more about being risk adverse. Also in terms of events for the Emirates, we did have that in the first year (Bruce Springsteen concert etc) but ultimately Islington council is very activist and it was hard enough getting them to agree to us building a new stadium to begin with….and we are trying now to see if we can expand the seating capacity but they are being hardline about it. Basically it’s all about saying they don’t want local residents disturbed by the noise and extra crowds

As for why that’s less of an issue for Tottenham, you’d have to ask Harringay council

Well I've already backtracked a bit and changed the "poor" to "conservative", and yes, most of what you have stated is correct.

But what I consider poor wasn't the original deal, but when we renewed it in 2012 and all the other years we've kept on renewing it.

When we initially started the deal in the beginning of this century, it was ground breaking and essential like what you said, as "commercial" revenue was a rarely spoken of term and had a bit of a "it thing" aura.

But by 2012 it was clear that smaller clubs had surpassed us with the amounts they were getting while also signing shorter deals, yet we kept on with the long deals with Emirates like we were afraid we'd get relegated or something.

Anyway, the financials don't lie and its not even an English thing as even other European clubs have commercial revenue firmly as their number one driver.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Our great manager, theorising on his purported search:


“I have seen it, I sense it. A player can score a lot of goals, great. How does this player react when he hasn’t scored for six or seven games? This is what I am interested in.

“What kind of goals does he score? Against which teams, in which context? Is it first half or second half? Is it only with his right foot, only headers, only in open spaces? Does he like the physical contact of this league?

“There are a lot of things. So when you have a player that has spent a lot of days with him, that is really valuable information to have.”

He asked these questions and yet signed Havertz and Jesus :doh:

Well I'm glad he's enjoying the attention the press is giving him, but I think he's practising subterfuge as usual and knows clearly how he wants this January to end.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Our great manager, theorising on his purported search:


“I have seen it, I sense it. A player can score a lot of goals, great. How does this player react when he hasn’t scored for six or seven games? This is what I am interested in.

“What kind of goals does he score? Against which teams, in which context? Is it first half or second half? Is it only with his right foot, only headers, only in open spaces? Does he like the physical contact of this league?

“There are a lot of things. So when you have a player that has spent a lot of days with him, that is really valuable information to have.”



He asked these questions and yet signed Havertz and Jesus :doh:

Well I'm glad he's enjoying the attention the press is giving him, but I think he's practising subterfuge as usual and knows clearly how he wants this January to end.

That is a complete load of pontificating drivel!

Just buy a fucking striker - they will do the rest on the pitch ffs.

[WMUG]

and we are trying now to see if we can expand the seating capacity but they are being hardline about it. Basically it’s all about saying they don’t want local residents disturbed by the noise and extra crowds


Another issue is that the transport around the Emirates is already pretty much at capacity.

Holloway Road and Drayton Park already have to be closed on matchdays, meaning the ones left open (Arsenal, Finsbury Park, Caledonian Road, Highbury and Islington) are completely flooded. Adding tens of thousands more people to that is a recipe for disaster.

The club would therefore have to pay the costs of not only the the expansion itself, but also for the upgrading of the tube/rail stations around it which would be gargantuan.

[Mac76]

Another issue is that the transport around the Emirates is already pretty much at capacity.

Holloway Road and Drayton Park already have to be closed on matchdays, meaning the ones left open (Arsenal, Finsbury Park, Caledonian Road, Highbury and Islington) are completely flooded. Adding tens of thousands more people to that is a recipe for disaster.

The club would therefore have to pay the costs of not only the the expansion itself, but also for the upgrading of the tube/rail stations around it which would be gargantuan.

Even without that the costs would be huge and it's only really worth it if they go for at the least 70k if not 80k, which as you say creates new problems

[Letters]

Another issue is that the transport around the Emirates is already pretty much at capacity.

Holloway Road and Drayton Park already have to be closed on matchdays, meaning the ones left open (Arsenal, Finsbury Park, Caledonian Road, Highbury and Islington) are completely flooded. Adding tens of thousands more people to that is a recipe for disaster.

The club would therefore have to pay the costs of not only the the expansion itself, but also for the upgrading of the tube/rail stations around it which would be gargantuan.

I never understand this argument. The transport links around The Emirates are much better than those around Wembley

[HCZ_Reborn]

I never understand this argument. The transport links around The Emirates are much better than those around Wembley

There are more transport links but ultimately when you look at the Wembley stations, the platforms and stairwells are built in such a way that can facilitate a lot of people. Even take away Holloway Road and Drayton Park which for obvious reasons are closed on match day. Arsenal tube station is all very narrow passages, to a degree same with Finsbury Park as well. Highbury and Islington is a bit better but from personal experience you have the a bit of a squeeze on the platforms coming away after matches.


And this is with policing which makes sure there are only so many people who can enter the stations at any one time. Plus I don’t know for sure, but isn’t there more parking facilities Wembley way?

I’d love to see the Emirates host 80,000 but I can see the potential for things like bottleneck crowding, taking even longer than it does already to get away from the ground and the potential for a crush. Although I’m sure the amount it would cost to facilitate 25% more people would be the biggest consideration.

[Letters]

There are more transport links but ultimately when you look at the Wembley stations, the platforms and stairwells are built in such a way that can facilitate a lot of people. Even take away Holloway Road and Drayton Park which for obvious reasons are closed on match day. Arsenal tube station is all very narrow passages, to a degree same with Finsbury Park as well. Highbury and Islington is a bit better but from personal experience you have the a bit of a squeeze on the platforms coming away after matches.


And this is with policing which makes sure there are only so many people who can enter the stations at any one time. Plus I don’t know for sure, but isn’t there more parking facilities Wembley way?

I’d love to see the Emirates host 80,000 but I can see the potential for things like bottleneck crowding, taking even longer than it does already to get away from the ground and the potential for a crush. Although I’m sure the amount it would cost to facilitate 25% more people would be the biggest consideration.

It's a fair point about some of the stations but there are so many more options near The Emirates. I've tried a few different things back in the day, I never used to go home via Arsenal station (I did a long time ago, but never in the Emirates era). If you walk to Finsbury Park or Highbury and Islington then sure, there are some queues but it's not that bad. Towards the end of my season ticket days I used to go to Caledonian Road - a bit further to walk but it's not that far and by the time you get there, there's no-one there. Plus we were going towards Oakwood so you're going back towards the busier stations. We'd often get a seat.

I've been stuck in far bigger queues coming back from Wembley where everyone is trying to get back to the same station.

Not sure about parking, it's extortionate to park at both Wembley and The Emirates (even more so for the latter). I don't know what parking is like nearby, my dad used to know a place the other side of Finsbury where we'd park when I was a kid. He knew somewhere fairly near Wembley too. I suspect it's not great either place.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The last time I went to Arsenal station was after leaving a game early (we were 2-0 down and you could tell we weren’t getting back into the game). Usually go to Highbury and Islington, normally I can get a train going my way within 45 minutes of match ending.

It never feels like overwhelming human traffic but I imagine 20k extra people would, and that’s not just transport links but the strain on policing as well as cafes, pubs etc

[Letters]

I'm not denying there would be an impact, I just struggle with the idea that Wembley can cope with this number of people and The Emirates can't given...well, all the stuff I've said.

[Niall_Quinn]

Our great manager, theorising on his purported search:



He asked these questions and yet signed Havertz and Jesus :doh:

Well I'm glad he's enjoying the attention the press is giving him, but I think he's practising subterfuge as usual and knows clearly how he wants this January to end.

Gyokeres or the other guy, Vlahovic - you don't need to worry about those two they will do the job week-in, week-out. So there's your easy answer. The Sesko thing, that's a 50/50 gamble at best. Reminds me of a cut-price van Persie. Could step up his game and be great, could take as long as Robin to actually make the breakthrough. The first two will just bang the ball in the net, left foot, right foot, header, with their arse - won't matter. And they are both shit-houses that give as good as they get.

The other bloke, from Wolves, that's a disaster waiting to derail us for the foreseeable future.

[Niall_Quinn]

And I want us to sign a 10, not a false 9. Enough of that shit, let's get back to proper football. We have Rice who is quite capable of playing the classic destroyer role but distribution as a bonus. And we have Saka (well, we did have, but tactically speaking) who always attracts double marking. You bring a 10 into the mix who occupies defenders in the fight and suddenly, who is walking in acres? Martinelli. Buying a 10 might free our 11 to be the player I think he can be.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nypan is about to be signed, apparently. One for later but still seems like a decent hire that other clubs of note were looking at.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Nypan is about to be signed, apparently. One for later but still seems like a decent hire that other clubs of note were looking at.

The Norwegian lad?

Yeah whilst Nwaneri has played well this season I think he’s more going to be cover for Saka on the wing than playing centrally

[Niall_Quinn]

The Norwegian lad?

Yeah whilst Nwaneri has played well this season I think he’s more going to be cover for Saka on the wing than playing centrally

Swedish, Norwegian? Never can remember what country Rosenborg plays in. Anyway, sounds like we're still in the lead in terms of bringing him here and that the plan is to put him straight into the squad, possibly even as a 10. I heard he was good, but he's also 18 years old and would have to maybe bulk up and acclimatise to the PL, so not sure about that. Would be like having Jack in there again which never really worked out.

Gyokeres hasn't been mentioned in an age so I doubt there's anything happening there. Vlahovic is on, off, on, off, at around 15 minute intervals. And Sesko is going nowhere according to his club, and he's joining Arsenal according to the player. So that sounds like a summer deal at best. Isak definitely won't be happening in January, according to Newcastle (se let's get him in February). And the stubborn Cuhna rumours just won't go away. Why we would ever want a player who is agitating to get a transfer is beyond me. He's eventually going to turn around and do the same to you, so there's no future in it.

And now some other kid is in the spotlight, Mathys Tel from Bayern. Never heard of him.

[HCZ_Reborn]

He’s a French boy who is the backup for Kane up front which means he never gets a look in.

His stats aren’t especially impressive

I’m of the view that we won’t sign a striker and we will hobble along to the end of the season

[KSE Comedy Club]

Another issue is that the transport around the Emirates is already pretty much at capacity.

Holloway Road and Drayton Park already have to be closed on matchdays, meaning the ones left open (Arsenal, Finsbury Park, Caledonian Road, Highbury and Islington) are completely flooded. Adding tens of thousands more people to that is a recipe for disaster.

The club would therefore have to pay the costs of not only the the expansion itself, but also for the upgrading of the tube/rail stations around it which would be gargantuan.

I think they should install a monorail


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGg5rfBfWT4

[KSE Comedy Club]

Swedish, Norwegian? Never can remember what country Rosenborg plays in. Anyway, sounds like we're still in the lead in terms of bringing him here and that the plan is to put him straight into the squad, possibly even as a 10. I heard he was good, but he's also 18 years old and would have to maybe bulk up and acclimatise to the PL, so not sure about that. Would be like having Jack in there again which never really worked out.

Gyokeres hasn't been mentioned in an age so I doubt there's anything happening there. Vlahovic is on, off, on, off, at around 15 minute intervals. And Sesko is going nowhere according to his club, and he's joining Arsenal according to the player. So that sounds like a summer deal at best. Isak definitely won't be happening in January, according to Newcastle (se let's get him in February). And the stubborn Cuhna rumours just won't go away. Why we would ever want a player who is agitating to get a transfer is beyond me. He's eventually going to turn around and do the same to you, so there's no future in it.

And now some other kid is in the spotlight, Mathys Tel from Bayern. Never heard of him.

We are never getting Isak, that is a pipe dream. They would never sell him to a top 4 rival.

Newcastle are supposedly offering him a new deal and telling other suitors he is not for sale.

[KSE Comedy Club]

He’s a French boy who is the backup for Kane up front which means he never gets a look in.

His stats aren’t especially impressive

I’m of the view that we won’t sign a striker and we will hobble along to the end of the season

It's certainly starting to look that way.

Lot's of admiring, discussing, 'actively looking' but very little 'submitting an offer' to actually get anything done

[Niall_Quinn]

I think they should install a monorail


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGg5rfBfWT4

Monorail, like for like Theo replacement.

[Niall_Quinn]

We are never getting Isak, that is a pipe dream. They would never sell him to a top 4 rival.

Newcastle are supposedly offering him a new deal and telling other suitors he is not for sale.

I suppose they have enough cash now to actually follow through on that. Normally that's talk designed to force up the price. I heard they have been comparing him to Henry of late - I'm sure they didn't mean any offence. I;d say in the summer they'll come after us for something like £150mill. And we might just be desperate enough by that stage, especially if we follow the Wenger playbook this January.

[dazthegooner]

Just seen this Arsenal and Spurs willing to pay £52m for Nico Williams :haha: That should be a hard choice Champions league football or Championship :blink: https://thehardtackle.com/transfer-news/2025/01/27/arsenal-tottenham-ready-to-pay-e58-million-to-sign-nico-williams/

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's certainly starting to look that way.

Lot's of admiring, discussing, 'actively looking' but very little 'submitting an offer' to actually get anything done

Again the issue as I can see it is wages. This is why we are trying to bring the player in on loan (like with Sterling likely with the agreement of the parent club of splitting the bill).

I don’t really give a fuck at this stage. I think the ship has sailed to win the league which is what I cared about, and as much as referees and injuries have screwed us…I won’t be satisfied until Arteta is hounded out of the club for his failure.

We know that Liverpool likely won’t be in contention if Salah goes in the summer, so I’m happier for us to make our transfer business about preparing for next season. I think it’s incredibly unlikely City will miss out on the title two seasons in a row given that we know that they aren’t going to get anything more than a slap on the wrist, but they could be in a transitionary period that gives us a small chance with the right signings and with Arteta gone

[KSE Comedy Club]

I suppose they have enough cash now to actually follow through on that. Normally that's talk designed to force up the price. I heard they have been comparing him to Henry of late - I'm sure they didn't mean any offence. I;d say in the summer they'll come after us for something like £150mill. And we might just be desperate enough by that stage, especially if we follow the Wenger playbook this January.

He's certainly not worth over £100m and if that is the price (which it will be) then Gyokores is the clear best value proposition.

[KSE Comedy Club]

A bit more on the Deloitte money league info

Seems PSR wise, we are in a very good position to spend still, but the last part acknowledges what we really all know to be the case:

https://www.footballinsider247.com/stefan-borson-drops-huge-arsenal-transfer-claim-club-record-news/


Arsenal have a “huge” profit and sustainability (PSR) capacity to make new signings before the transfer window closes on 3 February.
That is the view of finance expert Stefan Borson, who exclusively told Football Insider the message the north London giants have been giving to their fans around PSR is not completely straightforward.

Deloitte’s 2025 Money League revealed Arsenal generated a club-record revenue of £615million in 2023-24 – a 32 per cent rise on the previous year’s £465million.
They also managed to grow their commercial revenue from £171million to £222million, while the matchday income at the Emirates surged from £103million to £132million.

But Arsenal’s wage bill increased dramatically from £235million to £326million last season, where they finished second in the Premier League behind Manchester City.
Mikel Arteta’s side have so far failed to agree any new signings in the January window despite recently suffering injuries to several key players.

Borson insisted Arsenal have the spending power to add to their squad after their financial results have been revealed for last season.

“There is some room to grow commercially, but it’s a solid set of results,” Borson told Football Insider.
“The wage bill is up a lot. It was up last season by 40 per cent, which isn’t a huge surprise when you see what the impact is on the pitch.
“But I guess just in one year, that is a big move.
“It’s really just confirmation of everything we already knew, which is Arsenal are well and cautiously run.
“They are in good shape financially and have got huge PSR capacity.

“The message that they are trying to give to fans around PSR has not been completely straightforward.
“They have space for investment, but at the moment, they are choosing not to spend, which of course is their prerogative.”

[Mac76]

We're talking to Villa about Duran apparently - given he scores a goal a game nearly but can't get a start, it seems a good shout though I'm sure it would be for an inflated price

[Niall_Quinn]

Appears we are desperately trawling around with no real plan. There's a new name every day but nothing ever progressed.

[Niall_Quinn]

In case anyone was wondering. We haven't signed a striker yet.

Moving into that fun period where teams we try to deal with would have to find replacements in record time.

It's so crazy. We'd probably be right up there at or within striking distance of the top spot with city nowhere in sight. For the want of somebody who can just stick those chances in the net.

[HCZ_Reborn]

We're talking to Villa about Duran apparently - given he scores a goal a game nearly but can't get a start, it seems a good shout though I'm sure it would be for an inflated price

Feels a bit of a lazy git to me, scores some absolute blinders but isn’t doing a lot to influence the overall game, not making loads of runs to make himself available for passes or passing to others, even for Villa he’s more likely to be brought off the bench as a super sub.

That and I can see no evidence of him having a brother who plays football, so we couldn’t buy him as well for novelty value

[Niall_Quinn]

Feels a bit of a lazy git to me, scores some absolute blinders but isn’t doing a lot to influence the overall game, not making loads of runs to make himself available for passes or passing to others, even for Villa he’s more likely to be brought off the bench as a super sub.

That and I can see no evidence of him having a brother who plays football, so we couldn’t buy him as well for novelty value

And they want 80mill which brings the added advantage of us getting nobody in the summer. So this would be it, our striker for the next 3 years. Not a planned target but a desperate rush to Tesco before it shuts. It may even be better to get nobody at this stage.

[Marc Overmars]

Duran would soon have his ability to score worldies coached out of him anyway.

[HCZ_Reborn]

And they want 80mill which brings the added advantage of us getting nobody in the summer. So this would be it, our striker for the next 3 years. Not a planned target but a desperate rush to Tesco before it shuts. It may even be better to get nobody at this stage.

I think it’s bollocks anyway, feels like an agent is touting a move for his client (because West Ham and Chelsea have been sniffing about) and is trying to get some commitment by making up shit about other clubs being interested. Seems like the perfect Chelsea signing, a player with some talent but doesn’t produce consistently.

I think if we do sign anyone it will be on loan. Which makes sense, if they perform sign them outright, if they don’t…send them back.

With loans though they tend to be the type of thing agreed on deadline day

[Niall_Quinn]

I think it’s bollocks anyway, feels like an agent is touting a move for his client (because West Ham and Chelsea have been sniffing about) and is trying to get some commitment by making up shit about other clubs being interested. Seems like the perfect Chelsea signing, a player with some talent but doesn’t produce consistently.

I think if we do sign anyone it will be on loan. Which makes sense, if they perform sign them outright, if they don’t…send them back.

With loans though they tend to be the type of thing agreed on deadline day

Yeah but I also read some crap somewhere that one of the proposed loan deals, from a Spanish club is all I can remember, would be with no option to purchase. So it'd be a temporary band-aid and if it did work out we wouldn't be signing the player anyway.

And why did we borrow Sterling? He's not on the pitch much, and when he is he doesn't do anything. Hopefully we aren't committed to buying him.

Got to make sure it's the right type of loan.

[HCZ_Reborn]

There’s three types of loan deal

No option to purchase, which is basically when a bigger club wants one of their youngsters to get more game time than they are at the parent club

Option to purchase, sometimes a try before you buy sometimes just a sticking plaster…I think Sterling was in the latter category

Obligation to purchase, which was what we had with Raya where we clearly wanted to sign him outright but wanted to shunt the actual purchase onto next year’s books.


Mathys Tel, The Dopey Irish boy from Brighton, Vlahovic etc all been touted as options on loan. I suspect all would come with option to buy…although who knows maybe we don’t want to be obligated into buying is why we haven’t sealed the deal with them

[Mac76]

Duran would soon have his ability to score worldies coached out of him anyway.

I have to say I'm increasingly of that opinion, it doesn't matter who we buy, Arteta will play them out of position or in a system/role that doesn't get the best out of them

I think players like Martinelli would be a revelation in another side which played more to their strengths

[HCZ_Reborn]

I have to say I'm increasingly of that opinion, it doesn't matter who we buy, Arteta will play them out of position or in a system/role that doesn't get the best out of them

I think players like Martinelli would be a revelation in another side which played more to their strengths

Yet interestingly he doesn’t seem to buy a type of player that does play how he wants us to play. A big lump of a striker. As one of my few Arsenal supporting mate often says, someone even like Chris Wood would clean up for goals in our team.


Trossard, Martinelli, Saka and Odegaard whatever their other attributes are good at creating chances for others. Now even with the laboriously slow build up play, you look at some of the crosses Trossard has put in, in the last couple of games. Player like Wood would gobble those up like Pac-Man.

Yet in five years never remotely shown interest in that type of player

[Mac76]

Yet interestingly he doesn’t seem to buy a type of player that does play how he wants us to play. A big lump of a striker. As one of my few Arsenal supporting mate often says, someone even like Chris Wood would clean up for goals in our team.


Trossard, Martinelli, Saka and Odegaard whatever their other attributes are good at creating chances for others. Now even with the laboriously slow build up play, you look at some of the crosses Trossard has put in, in the last couple of games. Player like Wood would gobble those up like Pac-Man.

Yet in five years never remotely shown interest in that type of player

yes the striker role for him seems a bit like his attitude to LB - he simply doesn't like the trad LB role, even though whenever Tierney plays he clearly demonstrates what it can bring both in defence and attack.

likewise he wants a stiker to do multiple things including defend etc, all of which waters down their effectiveness up front.

tbh even Havertz would probably look less kanckered and miss fewer chances if he was just told to stay up front

[HCZ_Reborn]

Arteta for me seems to want attacking football that doesn’t risk anything at the back, and it just doesn’t exist

Even on the counter attack, you can get dispossessed by pressing teams, you can misplace a pass and put yourself in trouble

21_Gunner_Salute made the argument that it feels like we don’t go for goals to kill off games even when we are in front. And often when we’ve been pegged back it’s been a result of sitting back on what we have. With the paucity in striking options I can understand that with ten men, but I think take Villa for example…the reason it got back to 2-2 is because we dropped back at 2-1.

[HCZ_Reborn]

yes the striker role for him seems a bit like his attitude to LB - he simply doesn't like the trad LB role, even though whenever Tierney plays he clearly demonstrates what it can bring both in defence and attack.

likewise he wants a stiker to do multiple things including defend etc, all of which waters down their effectiveness up front.

tbh even Havertz would probably look less kanckered and miss fewer chances if he was just told to stay up front

If I’m being hugely generous I can understand the inverted full back role when you’re playing away at city or Liverpool etc. Basically it’s putting an extra man in midfield and means you have control of the game. It’s not something I especially buy into because what you gain in control you lose in attack, but I can understand it and it’s proven reasonably successful

Against most teams it’s utterly unnecessary.

RE Havertz, the one thing that fucks me off about Jesus is that he doesn’t show for the ball, I can forgive players missing chances if they are getting themselves in position. And for all Havertz’s running off the ball he’s always there on the end of chances even if he is fluffing them….which seems to me more about confidence than exhaustion

[Niall_Quinn]

Yet interestingly he doesn’t seem to buy a type of player that does play how he wants us to play. A big lump of a striker. As one of my few Arsenal supporting mate often says, someone even like Chris Wood would clean up for goals in our team.


Trossard, Martinelli, Saka and Odegaard whatever their other attributes are good at creating chances for others. Now even with the laboriously slow build up play, you look at some of the crosses Trossard has put in, in the last couple of games. Player like Wood would gobble those up like Pac-Man.

Yet in five years never remotely shown interest in that type of player

That's why Gyokeres is the most obvious answer. Not only can he do a convincing impersonation of Chris Wood but he often be mistake for Shearer on occasion (not kicking players in the face but getting into the danger area and bullying his way into the net), but he can also do a lot of the other things that appeal to Arteta. Vlahovic is not far behind though definitely more Chris Wood than Chris Waddle. Cunha not so much, he'd definitely be your tippy tappy "danger" man with his back to goal for 90 minutes. I don't even think Isak would be guaranteed success here, we just don't play that slashing transition from back to front that Wenger spoiled us with. Isak at 3mph would be much of an improvement over the ret of the team chugging along at 1mph.

Why don't we just show a bit of ambition, break the bank for Gyokeres and go on and win the damn thing? Even if we didn't win it this year I;d be a lot more confident we could give it a go next year and the years after.

[Niall_Quinn]

If I’m being hugely generous I can understand the inverted full back role when you’re playing away at city or Liverpool etc. Basically it’s putting an extra man in midfield and means you have control of the game. It’s not something I especially buy into because what you gain in control you lose in attack, but I can understand it and it’s proven reasonably successful

Against most teams it’s utterly unnecessary.

RE Havertz, the one thing that fucks me off about Jesus is that he doesn’t show for the ball, I can forgive players missing chances if they are getting themselves in position. And for all Havertz’s running off the ball he’s always there on the end of chances even if he is fluffing them….which seems to me more about confidence than exhaustion

Probably confidence AND exhaustion. The focus is on him fluffing his lines up front, but he covers a serious amount of ground over 90 minutes. You put Cunha in there and see what happens.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Arteta for me seems to want attacking football that doesn’t risk anything at the back, and it just doesn’t exist

Even on the counter attack, you can get dispossessed by pressing teams, you can misplace a pass and put yourself in trouble

21_Gunner_Salute made the argument that it feels like we don’t go for goals to kill off games even when we are in front. And often when we’ve been pegged back it’s been a result of sitting back on what we have. With the paucity in striking options I can understand that with ten men, but I think take Villa for example…the reason it got back to 2-2 is because we dropped back at 2-1.

Exactly this, it's been like it all season.

When we get in front it's like we shut up shop and only go for a goal if the opportunity is gifted to us.

Incredibly frustrating.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Probably confidence AND exhaustion. The focus is on him fluffing his lines up front, but he covers a serious amount of ground over 90 minutes. You put Cunha in there and see what happens.

We already did at the weekend, a shot over the bar, one wide and not much else.

We have plenty of that already.

[KSE Comedy Club]

That's why Gyokeres is the most obvious answer. Not only can he do a convincing impersonation of Chris Wood but he often be mistake for Shearer on occasion (not kicking players in the face but getting into the danger area and bullying his way into the net), but he can also do a lot of the other things that appeal to Arteta. Vlahovic is not far behind though definitely more Chris Wood than Chris Waddle. Cunha not so much, he'd definitely be your tippy tappy "danger" man with his back to goal for 90 minutes. I don't even think Isak would be guaranteed success here, we just don't play that slashing transition from back to front that Wenger spoiled us with. Isak at 3mph would be much of an improvement over the ret of the team chugging along at 1mph.

Why don't we just show a bit of ambition, break the bank for Gyokeres and go on and win the damn thing? Even if we didn't win it this year I;d be a lot more confident we could give it a go next year and the years after.

I think he is the answer staring Arteta in the face, but he's weak and having his head turned by the flirting of Sesko - a Gyokeres wannabe but with half the amount of ability.

It's nailed on that we will go for the 'lesser' option at he same price :rolleyes:

[Niall_Quinn]

Rumour mill again. Apparently we are in actual talks to sign Mathys Tel this week. Trust it to be the one I never heard of. Same old. Also some talk of some bloke from some league in Italy, never heard of him can't even remember his name. Hope that helps.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Leverkusen are about to lose Victor Boniface their main forward to a Saudi team for €60m. Apparently we've watched him a bit (like every other top name).

I think he's a great talent and would be a beast in the EPL . He's two footed, he's strong but I guess where he excels is his build up play and technical ability. I wouldn't say he's got the nose for goals like Gyokores....but if Arteta really insists on only recruiting players that can play in more than one position, then he should have taken a proven Boniface seriously instead of the baby he now wants to get on loan from Bayern.

[Niall_Quinn]

Leverkusen are about to lose Victor Boniface their main forward to a Saudi team for €60m. Apparently we've watched him a bit (like every other top name).

I think he's a great talent and would be a beast in the EPL . He's two footed, he's strong but I guess where he excels is his build up play and technical ability. I wouldn't say he's got the nose for goals like Gyokores....but if Arteta really insists on only recruiting players that can play in more than one position, then he should have taken a proven Boniface seriously instead of the baby he now wants to get on loan from Bayern.

Fee might be 60 mill, wages are probably 600 mill and a harem.

[Niall_Quinn]

The Tel deal said to be a short term loan with NO OPTION to buy. Bayern want him back.
And why haven't we signed that Nypan kid yet? How long does it actually take us to get something over the line? We've been after him for months apparently.

[Niall_Quinn]

Learning a bit about Tel now. 5th choice at Bayern, 19 years old, worked with Thierry Henry in French U21 (Henry likes him), sounds an awful lot like Martinelli. Can he guide us through the sharp end of the season and score the goals necessary to haul back the points on Liverpool?

Obviously not.

So wonder why we are even bothering?

It's like me wandering up and down the supermarket aisles because I can't decide what I want for dinner.

Pot Noodle incoming!

[HCZ_Reborn]

Leverkusen are about to lose Victor Boniface their main forward to a Saudi team for €60m. Apparently we've watched him a bit (like every other top name).

I think he's a great talent and would be a beast in the EPL . He's two footed, he's strong but I guess where he excels is his build up play and technical ability. I wouldn't say he's got the nose for goals like Gyokores....but if Arteta really insists on only recruiting players that can play in more than one position, then he should have taken a proven Boniface seriously instead of the baby he now wants to get on loan from Bayern.

If a player wants to move to the Saudi league you have to ask yourself are they really motivated to improve themselves on the pitch and win the major prizes. It’s for players to make more money than they could reasonably expect to make in European club football, to live a cosseted life in a goldfish bowl and indulge in every kind of vice known to man whilst the missus spends a lot of your money in the shopping malls.


The punitive lifestyle that the ordinary person has to put up with won’t apply to you, the fact that you’re a non Saudi and therefore you’re not legally entitled to own anything? There will be a workaround. Booze, whoring, drugs….that world won’t be closed off to you either. It’s the lifestyle of a playboy whilst you put in the minimum amount of effort to score a brace against defenders who wouldn’t be good enough to play for the dog and duck fc

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Learning a bit about Tel now. 5th choice at Bayern, 19 years old, worked with Thierry Henry in French U21 (Henry likes him), sounds an awful lot like Martinelli. Can he guide us through the sharp end of the season and score the goals necessary to haul back the points on Liverpool?

Obviously not.

So wonder why we are even bothering?

It's like me wandering up and down the supermarket aisles because I can't decide what I want for dinner.

Pot Noodle incoming!

:lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

If a player wants to move to the Saudi league you have to ask yourself are they really motivated to improve themselves on the pitch and win the major prizes. It’s for players to make more money than they could reasonably expect to make in European club football, to live a cosseted life in a goldfish bowl and indulge in every kind of vice known to man whilst the missus spends a lot of your money in the shopping malls.


The punitive lifestyle that the ordinary person has to put up with won’t apply to you, the fact that you’re a non Saudi and therefore you’re not legally entitled to own anything? There will be a workaround. Booze, whoring, drugs….that world won’t be closed off to you either. It’s the lifestyle of a playboy whilst you put in the minimum amount of effort to score a brace against defenders who wouldn’t be good enough to play for the dog and duck fc

Neymar just took a 300 billion quid wage cut to come back from there and resume his football career.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

If a player wants to move to the Saudi league you have to ask yourself are they really motivated to improve themselves on the pitch and win the major prizes. It’s for players to make more money than they could reasonably expect to make in European club football, to live a cosseted life in a goldfish bowl and indulge in every kind of vice known to man whilst the missus spends a lot of your money in the shopping malls.


The punitive lifestyle that the ordinary person has to put up with won’t apply to you, the fact that you’re a non Saudi and therefore you’re not legally entitled to own anything? There will be a workaround. Booze, whoring, drugs….that world won’t be closed off to you either. It’s the lifestyle of a playboy whilst you put in the minimum amount of effort to score a brace against defenders who wouldn’t be good enough to play for the dog and duck fc

Yeah, I am really disappointed that he's going to go and waste away over there but something we as fans sometimes forget is that a lot of these top players aren't really fans of the game themselves, and really see football as just their nine to five and means to an end.

That's one of reasons I hadn't really mentioned him earlier as he exudes that kind of vibe (I also thought there was no way Alonso would sell, but its like he's got one leg in Madrid already).

Anyway, lets get back to talking about transfers that we all know are never going to happen :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

The thing is with Leverkusen they don’t really have what I call an indispensable star player. Boniface was very hit and miss at times…would get brace or hat-trick one game and then not score again for 4 or 5 games, like Arteta…Alonso seems to favour an approach of getting goals from all over the pitch


They’ve also signed an Argentine striker from Velez Sarsfield to replace him by the look of it.

[Letters]

Not a popular opinion but I wouldn't mind a punt at Rashford.
Now hear me out.
He clearly has an attitude problem and things have broken down for him at Utd. But I think he has ability. It could potentially be channelled in the right way.
Or it might be a terrible idea and cause a big disruption in the squad. But maybe he'd like a new challenge and the honeymoon period would carry us through till the end of the season.

No?

:getcoat:

[Mac76]

Not a popular opinion but I wouldn't mind a punt at Rashford.
Now hear me out.
He clearly has an attitude problem and things have broken down for him at Utd. But I think he has ability. It could potentially be channelled in the right way.
Or it might be a terrible idea and cause a big disruption in the squad. But maybe he'd like a new challenge and the honeymoon period would carry us through till the end of the season.

No?

:getcoat:

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but it does feel as though there's an exceptional amount of baggage there now

Plus I suspect the club feel as though the Sterling experiment, while the subject of too much impatience by some IMO, has essentially not paid off so will they risk taking on another similar profile player, especially as a purchase rather than a loan (which it will have to be)?

Plus I think it would take an older, more mature manager to get the best out of him maybe - Wenger perhaps? :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Not a popular opinion...

:getcoat:

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but it does feel as though there's an exceptional amount of baggage there now

Plus I suspect the club feel as though the Sterling experiment, while the subject of too much impatience by some IMO, has essentially not paid off so will they risk taking on another similar profile player, especially as a purchase rather than a loan (which it will have to be)?

Plus I think it would take an older, more mature manager to get the best out of him maybe - Wenger perhaps? :lol:

Get with the program will you? They are signing up our young kids who show great potential and we're picking up the wages of their has-been trash. What's not to love?

[Marc Overmars]

I’d say no to Rashford simply because I think long term he’d get lost in our system and the same problems with his perceived lack of work rate and interest would crop up again. The media also hate him so I don’t think that negative coverage would be helpful for us as a club.

However if you consider the things he does have in his locker, like raw pace, ability to play across the front 3 and confidence with his shooting, I think there is something potentially there that a new club could get out of him. Put it this way, I don’t think he’d produce any less than what our forward line have this season if given the game time.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Not a popular opinion but I wouldn't mind a punt at Rashford.
Now hear me out.
:threaten:

[Letters]

:lol:

OK, don't then!

[Marc Overmars]

We’ve had a 60m bid for Watkins rejected.

I have no idea how we think we’re getting this over the line, other than the fact he is an Arsenal fan.

Seems like a token bid to me.

[HCZ_Reborn]

We’ve had a 60m bid for Watkins rejected.

I have no idea how we think we’re getting this over the line, other than the fact he is an Arsenal fan.

Seems like a token bid to me.

Silly bid, what’s the point of spending that much on a player of 29. Who frankly is as good as he’s going to get. I don’t mind bringing players who are 30 or older if it’s a bit like Jorginho where you don’t pay that much in transfer fee and they are there to add a bit of maturity to the squad. Ultimately given we are a club that’s never going to go berserk in the transfer market I wouldn’t want that kind of money spent on a player any older than 25.

Plus Villa aren’t going to sell. And why would they

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol:

OK, don't then!

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

We’ve had a 60m bid for Watkins rejected.

I have no idea how we think we’re getting this over the line, other than the fact he is an Arsenal fan.

Seems like a token bid to me.

Watkins? He's got 2 more goals than Havertz. And Havertz isn't a striker. I mean, to be honest, apart from Salad and big girlie weirdo, most of these PL strikers are abject shit, all on 10 goals, 8 goals, 5 goals? STRIKERS? Sound like duds to me. Havertz has done okay considering he's more of a midfielder than a striker. It's the 150 mill chancers that should be embarrassed, not him.

[Mac76]

Seems like a token bid to me.

yeah, kinda

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Why didn't we try and get him years ago? :lol:

Definitely just doing it to appear like we're doing something.

[Mac76]

Why didn't we try and get him years ago? :lol:

Definitely just doing it to appear like we're doing something.

It's not even exciting, I miss the Wenger years when he'd mumble something about going for Messi... :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Silly bid, what’s the point of spending that much on a player of 29. Who frankly is as good as he’s going to get. I don’t mind bringing players who are 30 or older if it’s a bit like Jorginho where you don’t pay that much in transfer fee and they are there to add a bit of maturity to the squad. Ultimately given we are a club that’s never going to go berserk in the transfer market I wouldn’t want that kind of money spent on a player any older than 25.

Plus Villa aren’t going to sell. And why would they

Because it's about money and not football? No telling how many little envelopes find their way into little pockets when a deal is done. That's my conspiracy theory mind on the go again - we all know George Graham was the only one ever to take a bung.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why didn't we try and get him years ago? :lol:

Definitely just doing it to appear like we're doing something.

Maybe we weren't in a hole so obviously of our own making years ago - though I can't prove something so preposterous is true.

[Niall_Quinn]

We really are trying to sign Watkins. Now! When the window is closing. What an absolute fucking joke. Who at the club has concluded Villa are going to sell their top striker with 5 minutes left until the deadline?

I thought this was more online hype, but it appears it's actually what we have settled on. A completely pointless bid and an underbid at that - 60 mill? Who actually sat down and decided that was an offer Villa couldn't refuse? Why not 60 thousand or 6 quid? Just as realistic.

This has to be a wind up?

[Mac76]

We really are trying to sign Watkins. Now! When the window is closing. What an absolute fucking joke. Who at the club has concluded Villa are going to sell their top striker with 5 minutes left until the deadline?




For which read 5 days...

But yes, apparently

[Marc Overmars]

What’s also daft is that Villa are selling Duran to Saudi. Are they really going to let him and Watkins both leave?

Just nonsense really from us.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Presumably the idea was that if they sold Watkins they wouldn’t have to sell Duran

Villa have come out and said they need to sell a player. This is a club that has spent big in the last five years, and even with Champions League money they are feeling the squeeze from FSR.

I don’t expect anything to materialise, and I don’t really want Watkins for that money

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I agree with MO here...there was no indication from them that Watkins is for sale, the rumours have always been about Duran.

Our bid was just us being silly as usual and letting the whole world know that we are willing to pay over the odds for someone whom the market is not even interested in. What this ensures is that if we do go after any of the other realisable targets, we'll be forced to cough out at least £60m.

Well I'm glad the Saudis have helped us out by taking Duran (this also leaves Boniface free) as though Watkins is far better than all the options we have now, I can't help but feel this move is about a year or 2 late.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I agree with MO here...there was no indication from them that Watkins is for sale, the rumours have always been about Duran.

Our bid was just us being silly as usual and letting the whole world know that we are willing to pay over the odds for someone whom the market is not even interested in. What this ensures is that if we do go after any of the other realisable targets, we'll be forced to cough out at least £60m.

Well I'm glad the Saudis have helped us out by taking Duran (this also leaves Boniface free) as though Watkins is far better than all the options we have now, I can't help but feel this move is about a year or 2 late.

Why would one Saudi Club buying Duran leave Boniface free? You realise there’s a lot of different Saudi clubs all with more money to spend than common sense.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Why would one Saudi Club buying Duran leave Boniface free? You realise there’s a lot of different Saudi clubs all with more money to spend than common sense.

Its the same club, they had their bid accepted by Leverkusen after earlier approaches for Duran were rebuffed. Apparently they only need one of them.

[Mac76]

depressing to see a talented player like Duran sell his soul

They will get shedloads of cash wherever they play, don't these guys want to win something meaningful in their careers?

[HCZ_Reborn]

depressing to see a talented player like Duran sell his soul

They will get shedloads of cash wherever they play, don't these guys want to win something meaningful in their careers?

As I said about Duran yesterday, he doesn’t come across as someone with a strong work ethic. Also given that so many European clubs are subsidised by human rights abusers from gulf countries….it would be just as easy to say he’d be selling his soul over here.

Shame the Saudi League wasn’t more prominent when Ozil decided he was just going to hang around to be a troll.

[Mac76]

Also given that so many European clubs are subsidised by human rights abusers from gulf countries….it would be just as easy to say he’d be selling his soul over here.



Yes, very fair point, but that doesn't apply to all clubs and also it's a bit different to play for a club that's funded by arab countries and actually going over there to endorse their way of living and their BS league

plus it means he's going to a league which is meaningless in terms of earning any accolades or seeing how far you can go as a player - it's the lack of ambition that's depressing as well as the human rights angle

[Marc Overmars]

Why would anything else matter when you’re being paid something obscene. Money that’s even obscene by today’s football standards.

The kid is probably from a shit background and couldn’t care less about developing himself as a player nor does he have any emotional connection to Villa. It’s a no brainer of a decision really if you’re him.

[Mac76]

Why would anything else matter when you’re being paid something obscene. Money that’s even obscene by today’s football standards.

The kid is probably from a shit background and couldn’t care less about developing himself as a player nor does he have any emotional connection to Villa. It’s a no brainer of a decision really if you’re him.

Ok, that might well be what he's thinking but whatever his background he'll already be on good money - sure he may not care about Villa but it's fair to say a lot of top-level players do want to win meaningful titles/trophies, whichever club it's for

[KSE Comedy Club]

Supposedly Villa are now interested in this Mathys Tel chap (:shrug:) alongside us and spurs.

Price would be 50-60m rupees or whatever the hell it is.

Also we are ready to make an offer for him too.

I don't think we really know what the hell we are doing tbh.

[Mac76]

I still think / hope we are going all in to bring Sesko here now rather than in the summer, he definitely seems like the best option both now and in the medium-long term

[Niall_Quinn]

Sesko is not really a striker though, is he? Not like Watkins. I've warmed to the fantasy of Watkins. At least he could hit the ground running and he'll get us goals. And I suppose that's what we actually need above all else. Trouble is, he'd get injured in the first match, so there is that.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Different attributes, Sesko and Watkins could actually play together if we were back in the day where you had two up front

Watkins bit like Henry did plays off the shoulder of the last defender, where as Sesko holds the ball up and would provide more of an aerial threat

Probably could afford both as well, but I don’t think Tom Selleck is that generous

[Mac76]

Trouble is, he'd get injured in the first match, so there is that.

Indeed, either injured or sent off...

He is apparently a gooner so quite keen to come here, so it could have been more of a possibility if they weren't selling Duran i guess

[Niall_Quinn]

Offer for Evan Ferguson fills in the F's, leaving us just with G, X and Z to go.

[Niall_Quinn]

Apparently we've signed Watkins. Or at least agreed the deal.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nope. Fake news. We agreed terms with the player. A far cry from agreeing terms with the club who, by all accounts, are about to sell their back-up striker. Dick Emery even spoke about it in his presser.

[KSE Comedy Club]

They want at least £80m for him - that is ridiculous money when Gyokeres' buy out clause is around £73m

[Niall_Quinn]

Too late now for Gyokeres, Likely too late for Watkins too. What the hell are we doing? We've needed a striker since the season kicked off, and here we are in the last hours of the Jan transfer window, still no striker but with the added advantage of season ending injuries. How can we not have acted by now?

[KSE Comedy Club]

My worry is that we now have some players coming back form injury so Arteta may be thinking we will be ok.

[HCZ_Reborn]

We know we aren’t going to win anything this season so let’s be fair who gives a fuck?

I’d be getting anxious about a lack of a striker if I thought we were in contention for the title, but every time Liverpool have dropped points we’ve done the same so there we go

[Chippy]

This is very annoying from the Beeb.

31st January 2025
Updated 5 hours ago

Tottenham agree £50m deal with Bayern Munich for Mathys Tel
Tottenham have agreed a £50m deal with Bayern Munich for 19-year-old French forward Mathys Tel. (L'Equipe - in French)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I am not sure I would have been glad to pay £50m for an unproven kid with less than 20 career goals.... especially when we have an academy that has produced tons of these kind of players who we keep selling of cheaply.

However, what I am sure of is I'll be pretty annoyed if we don't succeed in doing something to address our obvious shortcoming(s)...that's pure negligence/hubris and that is worse than trying and failing with poor signings IMO.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well, let's put in a 25mill bid with the spuds to buy Tel then.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Well, let's put in a 25mill bid with the spuds to buy Tel then.

:lol: did you miss the part where I said whatever we do should be successful....all these funny bids and attention we're paying to players that are obviously not going anywhere isn't pulling the wool over anyone's eyes.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nypan has turned us down. So we fucked that one up too. All we've done so far this window is let our rivals nick promising young talent.

I was hoping for more.

[Niall_Quinn]

My prediction is some mad last minute scramble for Rashford on deadline day.

[Marc Overmars]

My prediction is that we’ll do absolutely nothing and then lose to City on Sunday to compound the misery.

[HCZ_Reborn]

In regards to City, what’s in our favour is that other than Chelsea at the beginning of the season. The only away wins they’ve had are against lower half and relegation threatened teams

In regards to a striker, as much as we clearly need one I also think I don’t want to be buying a player out of panic. If Sesko is the player we want and we now can’t get him to the summer ? So be it. Make sure that before the season even ends we have that transfer agreed along with Zubimendi and that Norwegian lad.

[dazthegooner]

Nypan has turned us down. So we fucked that one up too. All we've done so far this window is let our rivals nick promising young talent.

I was hoping for more.

Probably turned by being able to pull Haarlands hair during the initiation ceremony.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Has he turned us down? All I’ve heard is that he wants to stay at Rosenborg for the time being (frankly even if we signed him now, it would probably make sense to loan him back to them)

[Niall_Quinn]

Has he turned us down? All I’ve heard is that he wants to stay at Rosenborg for the time being (frankly even if we signed him now, it would probably make sense to loan him back to them)

Well we made an offer for him and he's said he's staying put. So that's not really accepting our offer, is it? If we're not getting a striker this window then the season is over for us, pressure off, zero expectations, would have been a useful period between now and the end of the season to get a youngster acclimatised. Whatever, at least he's not going anywhere else so we can still underbid for him in the summer.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The likelihood of him getting significant game time with us between now and end of the season was next to nothing. And I think that’s why he’s decided to stay I think.

[Niall_Quinn]

The likelihood of him getting significant game time with us between now and end of the season was next to nothing. And I think that’s why he’s decided to stay I think.

That seems speculative, on all levels. Why wouldn't he get game time? Nwaneri and MLS are getting game time.

[HCZ_Reborn]

That seems speculative, on all levels. Why wouldn't he get game time? Nwaneri and MLS are getting game time.

Largely because of injury to other players

[Niall_Quinn]

Largely because of injury to other players

You saying the chances of us having a ton of injuries between now and the end of the season is next to nothing?

[HCZ_Reborn]

You saying the chances of us having a ton of injuries between now and the end of the season is next to nothing?

I’m saying a player who knows he is a starter for his current club probably thinks it’s too much of a risk hoping on injuries to guarantee game time where he might be thrown in at the deep end given there’s a bit of a gap between Norwegian football and the premier league.


You’re right I’m only speculating but given he’s chosen to stay with his current club, what’s the alternative theory…potentially holding out for a bigger salary at Man City where he’s going to be even further down the pecking order?. Possibly

[Niall_Quinn]

Heard Tel is going to Utd now. Something about the spuds flying out to secure the deal and the player saying no. Sounds a bit of a flirty girl to me. Now we'll definitely be getting Rashford and all his luggage.

[LDG]

Heard Tel is going to Utd now. Something about the spuds flying out to secure the deal and the player saying no. Sounds a bit of a flirty girl to me. Now we'll definitely be getting Rashford and all his luggage.

He’s gonna be so cheap. I would fucking take him in a heartbeat. He needs a bit of loving because he’s all fluffy, but he’s also a fucking good player.

save your money for summer and take a chance. He’s peak career….no brainer

[Niall_Quinn]

He’s gonna be so cheap. I would fucking take him in a heartbeat. He needs a bit of loving because he’s all fluffy, but he’s also a fucking good player.

save your money for summer and take a chance. He’s peak career….no brainer

Bloody hope so because I have him down for a hatter on Sunday.

Btw, it was Levy himself that turned up to sign Tel. Somehow they always find a way to out-humiliate us.

[LDG]

Bloody hope so because I have him down for a hatter on Sunday.

Btw, it was Levy himself that turned up to sign Tel. Somehow they always find a way to out-humiliate us.

I mean Rashford btw. Such a wasted talent. Fucking get him in, get him involved.

[Niall_Quinn]

I mean Rashford btw. Such a wasted talent. Fucking get him in, get him involved.

Yeah Rashford. Two weeks ago - no way! With 2 minutes to go I'll take anyone who knows where the goal is. Havertz isn't a striker and he's completely clapped out. And less said about Sterling the better. We have no choice BUT to get somebody, anybody in.

[Mac76]

Something about the spuds flying out to secure the deal and the player saying no.

:haha: hopefully he just did it to wind them up - as though any talented young payer would go to fight relegation in a giant toilet bowl

[dazthegooner]

Tomori has also turned them down :lol:
Also Heaven has moved to the sess pit that is Manure

[Mac76]

Also Heaven has moved to the sess pit that is Manure

poor lad, still he can look forward to having an easy time on the bench for far too much money - as long as he doesn't want to win anything it's fine :good:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Rashford to Villa on loan apparently.

Intriguing.

[dazthegooner]

poor lad, still he can look forward to having an easy time on the bench for far too much money - as long as he doesn't want to win anything it's fine :good:

He can keep the other one company what was his name again? Martin something?

[Niall_Quinn]

So if we aren't getting Watkins, and we aren't getting Rashford, I guess we're getting a big fat nothing?

Oh no, already loaned Sterling.

So nobody then. Excellent.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Rashford to Villa on loan apparently.

Intriguing.

Hmmmmm....I think this move might actually help Arteta in landing Watkins, seeing as now they do have some recognised cover.

[Mac76]

not sure, it's a big move to sell your two top scorers when you're chasing a European spot and all you get is a loanee

[HCZ_Reborn]

not sure, it's a big move to sell your two top scorers when you're chasing a European spot and all you get is a loanee

Exactly that. I think they didn’t want to sell Duran, but they had to which is why they are only looking for Rashford on loan (imagine contending with those wages)

I think the only way they’ll sell Watkins if he makes a big push for a move and they get someone else in to replace him (as well as Rashford)

[Niall_Quinn]

Gud'hefning has already said Watkins is staying. And anyway, unless he's moving now, today, then he won't be available for tomorrow so who cares? Makes no difference.

[Niall_Quinn]

Watkins starting for Villa. Funny how they could just quickly get a replacement, even on loan, for the striker they sold this week but we are still furiously fishing (fucking) around as if the oceans are empty.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Observing. :bow:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Watkins got an injury I think.

Definitely signing him now. :bow:

[Marc Overmars]

Deadline day tonight.

Doesn’t sound like we’ll be bringing anyone in.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Jorginho looks like he’s going back to Brazil in the summer, about to sign a pre-contract agreement with Flamengo

Good luck to him. I think he’s definitely been good value for money for us and has been an invaluable addition to the squad

[Marc Overmars]

Definitely a player I wish we had signed 5 years earlier at his peak.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's dead title day where we can watch all the dead space unfold moment by moment.

:popcorn:

[Niall_Quinn]

Rashford off to Villa, Midlands fans welcome him with rousing rendition of "Who ate all the pies?"

[Niall_Quinn]

We're certainly keeping our cards close to our chest (buried in sand on a deserted, unmapped island) if we are seriously in the hunt for anyone today. Not a peep so far, on anything. Under 8 hours to go. Far too reminiscent of Wenger on deadline days counting down every second, clutching his wallet, muttering "Precious..."

[dazthegooner]

Apparently Tel has had a change of mind and is flying over to London for a loan deal with that lot down the road, Should we do a Petit and hijack the move? (Never heard of him before this transfer window so not sute if he's any good)

[Mac76]

Apparently Tel has had a change of mind and is flying over to London for a loan deal with that lot down the road, Should we do a Petit and hijack the move? (Never heard of him before this transfer window so not sute if he's any good)

I guess it depends on whether we want to save a promising young player from a lifetime of failure

[dazthegooner]

I guess it depends on whether we want to save a promising young player from a lifetime of failure

Or for a laugh.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I used to equate the Wenger parsimony (then again when you look at what he spent post 2014 I tend to think the money was just not there to spend) to a man with a full bladder on a train, waiting till he got to his stop (the metaphor for the window closing) before relieving himself rather than using the squalid train lavatory.

The sensible move would be a loan signing but that’s from the perspective of a buying club, for a selling club it makes no sense at all. No one who could improve our attack is worth letting go for nothing until the end of the season

I think Watkins was purely a case of opportunism, seeing Villa had to sell and chancing our luck to see if they’d sell him to us as a preferred option to selling Duran to the Saudis. Other than that I suspect clubs have wanted an obligation for us to buy or weren’t interested in giving us a player on loan half way through the season. We were prepared to risk the money with Watkins because we’ve seen enough of him in the premier league to know what he brings. Although at 29, and a player who missed a fuck load of chances this season…not sure it would have been the best use of our money anyway

[HCZ_Reborn]

I guess it depends on whether we want to save a promising young player from a lifetime of failure

He’s there till the end of the season, no obligation to buy. I think we took a look at him but then thought “nah”

[Niall_Quinn]

Apparently Tel has had a change of mind and is flying over to London for a loan deal with that lot down the road, Should we do a Petit and hijack the move? (Never heard of him before this transfer window so not sute if he's any good)

Tel, Bonniface, Cunha, and a bunch of others mentioned during the month - all second tier, potential prospects, or second rate full stop - none of them get us the goals this season that allow us to capitalise if Liverpool slip up (Don't let this slip...)

Sounds to me like Vlahovic is an obvious choice. Hasn't signed a contract, affordable, not only could do the job this season but next as well (so not a panic buy). Watkins won't happen unless something has been going on that nobody has caught wind of. Gyokeres, for 73mill, was always there but we just never went there.

If I had to bet on it I'd put my money on getting nobody at odds of 1-1000, but if I was banned from taking that bet I;d put the money on Vlahovic at maybe 15-1.

I'd put Watkins at 100-1 right now and the player we should be signing, Gyokeres, at a million to one.

Not at all interested in Tel though. Maybe he'll become a great player, but we don't have the time for that.

[Mac76]

Clearly the club had no intention, despite still being in three competitions, of wanting to sign an attacker this window until Jesus got injured, despite his not being able to hit a barn door unless that barn door has 'Crystal Palace' written on it.

so the club is culpable here big time

[Chippy]

Apparently Tel has had a change of mind and is flying over to London for a loan deal with that lot down the road, Should we do a Petit and hijack the move? (Never heard of him before this transfer window so not sute if he's any good)

I was actually hoping that we were looking at him. Looks like the Spuds have stolen a march on us and United. :thumbsdown:

FFS.

[Chippy]

I guess it depends on whether we want to save a promising young player from a lifetime of failure

I am pretty pissed off about this. We apparently looked at him but he has chosen the Spuds. WTF!

[HCZ_Reborn]

I am pretty pissed off about this. We apparently looked at him but he has chosen the Spuds. WTF!

That he’s chosen Spurs implies that the option was there for him to come to us

He’s a 19 year old who is the understudy to Harry Kane, in premier league terms it means he might be a useful player for Crystal Palace or Wolves. Even Spurs are only getting him in on loan till the end of the season to cover injuries

[dazthegooner]

Telll wanted us but as a few have said on here we really need someone who can hit the ground running straight away and it just isn't it, Tel wanted steak but will have to make do with an out of date burger.

[Niall_Quinn]

Telll wanted us but as a few have said on here we really need someone who can hit the ground running straight away and it just isn't it, Tel wanted steak but will have to make do with an out of date burger.

Genius. I have an out of date burger in the fridge. Totally forgot about it. Getting it now.

[Mac76]

Genius. I have an out of date burger in the fridge. Totally forgot about it. Getting it now.

give it the number 10 shirt :good:

[Niall_Quinn]

give it the number 10 shirt :good:

You can have it on loan but I want it back. Fucking starving.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nothing to report.

Should be any moment now.

[Niall_Quinn]

Does anyone have Arshavin's mobile number please?

[Niall_Quinn]

Ornstein saying we're signing Nobody. No mention of the fee or whether it's a loan deal.

:woohoo:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ornstein saying we're signing Nobody. No mention of the fee or whether it's a loan deal.

:woohoo:

If I wasn’t working tomorrow I’d like to stay up and observe the Twitter meltdown and the internecine war breaking out between the stupid fans who love Arteta and the stupid fans who Hate him (apart from when there are times where I’ve been spitting feathers I would say I just profoundly dislike him)

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://tbrfootball.com/david-ornstein-shares-what-hes-hearing-about-arsenal-on-deadline-day/

So I kind of half agree with this, in that I think we weren’t going to be able to sign the striker we need to make a difference in January. But we did need a loan signing simply to boost numbers…the irony is we complain about Havertz but we’d be absolutely fucked if he got injured

[Niall_Quinn]

Which will happen if he has to play every game.

Nobody will be there to cover for him. Nobody has scored 35 goals in the Bundesliga this season.

:woohoo:

[Niall_Quinn]

Crawley midfielder Jack Roles is set to join Gateshead on loan until the end of the season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Crawley midfielder Jack Roles is set to join Gateshead on loan until the end of the season.

Christ

[Niall_Quinn]

Asensio to Villa on loan. 50m Gonzalez to City.

Villa doing the impossible several times so far. How much is that spent by city now?

[Niall_Quinn]

Sky Sports News' Gary Cotterill at the Emirates:

"I'm told and it is my understanding that there will be no ins and no outs today at Arsenal and indeed in the whole of January.

"No business, we understand, at Arsenal."

No one else understands it either. But what about February?

[HCZ_Reborn]

No one else understands it either. But what about February?

There’s a small wormhole operating just off Benwell Road, it’s harmless though it has created a small time dilation effect.

It’s still January 30th and we’ve yet to play Man City yet if you’re near the Emirates stadium or the flats they built nearby

[Niall_Quinn]

Seriously though, Havertz is playing every minute, Sterling can't play football.

What's the plan if Havertz gets injured? Sterling, on loan, is going to be our main striker? At Arsenal? Going for a title and playing in the latter stages of the CL? Trossard? Or are we bringing through Oyedeji?

What's the plan?

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aDixLxFuSA

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We've transcended the need for transfers clearly. :lol:

"We're short in certain areas"

Foresight mainly.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why did we sell Eddie if we weren't replacing him? Must have just been the cash. And ESR too. Who replaced him? If it's Nwaneri and Sterling then, first it's quite the assumption the kid can step up so well done to him but lucky for the club. Second, Sterling? Really? How so?

Suppose we're going to win the FFP league at least.

[Marc Overmars]

I think this regime has proven they simply aren’t going to move on players unless it’s on their terms.

Starting next season with only Havertz would be one of the dumbest things ever seen. So I suspect we’ll get something major done in the summer.

[Niall_Quinn]

They're waiting for the pay day when players leave in the summer. Then they'd drip a few quid out. Won't be 120mill on an Isak, AND 70 on a Sesko AND 50 or 60 on a Zubi. Pick the cheapest and that's what'll happen.

Is Arteta sitting down with Havertz right now and saying, "It's all up to you now!"

[Niall_Quinn]

Kronke's have put up on page on CrowdFunder. Bit late in the day but please give generously if you can, preferably within the next 2 hours and 13 minutes.

[Niall_Quinn]

Aston Villa have agreed a deal with Chelsea to sign Axel Disasi on loan.

Villa will pay a loan fee of about £5m and pay his wages.

[Mac76]

Short of a last-minute miracle this has been a really embarrassing window, it's scandalous we thought we didn't need an extra attacker, even before the Jesus injury

[Niall_Quinn]

Short of a last-minute miracle this has been a really embarrassing window, it's scandalous we thought we didn't need an extra attacker, even before the Jesus injury

Calm down. Right before the season tickets go on sale the club will be announcing summer deals for Isak and Zubimendi. And you did get not one, but TWO merch drops from the club during this transfer window. All is well.

[Chippy]

Short of a last-minute miracle this has been a really embarrassing window, it's scandalous we thought we didn't need an extra attacker, even before the Jesus injury

Mathys Tel would have preferred us over Spurs, but we just stood back and watched it happen. This could be one to regret for us.

[Mac76]

What's additionally annoying is we haven't even sold Zin, that would at least have been something to celebrate

[Niall_Quinn]

What's additionally annoying is we haven't even sold Zin, that would at least have been something to celebrate

We might need him. Evidently there's some huge assumption at the club we won't get any more injuries. But, however far-fetched, what if we do?

[Niall_Quinn]

Those that know (the guys on the telly) have concluded we haven't panicked this window because we are a big club with a big club mentality.

Coincidentally, we also have no striker.

Also it's extremely difficult to do business in the January window, though probably not as difficult as building a real time web site to track all those moves and loans that aren't happening - just today!

[Niall_Quinn]

Barnsley have signed striker Clement Rodrigues on loan from Bastia until the end of the season.

The club have the option to make the deal permanent in the summer.

Good for Barnsley, pulling off something so difficult. How the hell they managed it, who can say?

[Niall_Quinn]

Arsenal better not use the excuse this summer of BT shutting down all the landlines. We tried to call, but no phone!

They won't save money on the line rental though, because BT still plans to charge for that, as well as standard call charges. They must have attended the Stan Kroenke school of customer relations.

[Niall_Quinn]

Busy night at Fratton Park

Come down to the Emirates then, for all the peace and tranquility expected of an expensive establishment.

[Niall_Quinn]

West Ham boss Graham Potter has given a tantalising reply to Sky Sports when asked if he wants to get any more players in before the deadline...

"We'll see. You never know what happens in the window..."

As an Arsenal fan, I beg to differ.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Barnsley signing strikers. :bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

Tel signed, they got the medical done. All wrapped up.

[Niall_Quinn]

So, on we go. All we need is for Havertz and Sterling to outscore Salad and out-dive Gakpo and title is in the bag.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t know how true this is, but Ornstein seems to suggest that Villa if anything were trying to elicit interest from us in Watkins (in order to avoid having to sell Duran presumably) they valued him at 60 million but we were only prepared to pay around 40 million.

[Mac76]

We might need him.

Only if the Kroenkes have secretly bet their entire fortune on Liverpool winning the league

Terrible window which says everything about Arteta and the club's lack of understanding of how we needed to bolster our attack

I already thought the league was gone but IMO the CL was at least a possibility if we'd brought another striker in

[HCZ_Reborn]

At the risk of being a contrarian, I gave up on the league when we drew at Villa and Liverpool had beaten Brentford and subsequently Bournemouth. I equally don’t see top four status being imperilled and I never saw winning the champions league this season as a viable prospect (even with Chelsea and Man City who have done better in the competition than us, it took them a few attempts to make the breakthrough). We haven’t made a single final since 2006, and haven’t been in a semi final since 2009…yes we’ve been out of the competition for six years but we were still in it up to 2017.

We’ve never really managed to make our sea legs in the competition, and it’s not to say we won’t get to the semis or something this time but I think when you look at how naive we looked tactically against Bayern Munich last season it doesn’t bode well.

We are not the kind of club who are going to buy a player just to benefit us for the rest of the season. I don’t think any club operates like that, not even Man City (I think their signings are as much for the future as a top four charge this time around)

I said I didn’t think we would win the title without signing a striker and I stand by that. And I do think it’s a gamble to put so much pressure on Havertz to stay fit and get us the goals (especially when he’s had glaring miss after glaring miss in the last few games).

I would have liked to see us sign a player on loan just to provide cover and I can only speculate as to why that wasn’t possible. But at the same time, if the club are rationalising that buying a striker that is just ok means less funds to go after a top striker in the summer then I can kind of get that. But of course it means that especially given the summer transfer window we had last year that if we fuck that up, it’s going to be Bedlam….the club is putting extraordinary pressure on itself


I think nothing short of signing Sesko or Isaak plus Zubimendi and another attacking midfielder/winger will be acceptable

[Marc Overmars]

I’m disappointed we kept the powder dry but also accept that getting exactly who we want in January just wasn’t a realistic prospect. Even if we did buy Watkins, too much needs to go our way now for this season to be a success, although I did see that Liverpool’s next 3 away games are Everton, City and Villa…

But then you wouldn’t be surprised if we dropped points in that time too so it’s really a long shot right now. Plus we are a Havertz injury away from disaster.

I think turning around the Newcastle game would be awesome. Very unlikely but don’t underestimate the shot in the arm that could give us.

This season is probably going to pass us by but you hope lessons are learned and in the summer the club absolutely need to plough every penny they’ve got into the forward line.

[IBK]

Yes - I agree to a degree with the contrarians...

1. Despite Arteta obviously preferring a January forward signing to compensate for Jesus' long term injury, it's clear that the club has prioritised long term planning over short term reactionary signings. For me, this is a question of balancing risk. Would a striker have increased our limited prospects of winning the league or the CL this season - probably. But long term, spending money and big wages on a forward who is of the requisite standard now would inevitably reduce our prospects of signing top talent in the Summer, and therefore elevating the team going forwards. For me, our reported interest in Watkins tells us that he was someone on the club's radar already (albeit not the top option). I think that if Villa had been prepared to let him go, Watkins would have been our principal striker for the next 2/3 years and we would not have made a further 'top' signing up front in the Summer. This would have been a risk, given his age and the fact that last season may have been his high point. When this transfer failed to materialise, it's clear that the club were not prepared to take a punt outside a long term target and I can see the logic in sticking to a long term plan over a short term one.

2. We are the second highest goal scorers in the EPL this season, behind only Liverpool. We were in the same position last season. Let's face it, in both seasons, Jesus (4 EPL goals last season, 3 this) was hardly a factor. I would not even be particularly surprised if Sterling ends up matching his tally - as abject as he has been. So I can see why the club has not been principally motivated by his injury. While I am sure that a 'top' striker is in the club's longer term plans, our present incarnation is a team that shares the goals around and I have no doubt that our ability to do so fed into the decision not to sign a forward in this window.

3. On our current model, Saka is an incredibly important source of goals for us. But while he is out until at least next month, Nwaneri is suddenly turning out to be a credible understudy for him. I can see how the club thinks that if Nwaneri can chip in with 3 or 4 goals until Saka returns, this internal solution is as good as a player like Tel (who is untested and will need acclimatisation to the EPL) and that hijacking the Tel loan to Spurs would potentially deny Nwaneri playing time.

4. Then there is availability. There was clearly noone available in January whom the club felt would elevate our level. It's easy to feel that any warm body will do, but equally it's easy to fall into the washing machine of buying out of desperation, or hope rather than expectation. The 'big' teams that have done so recently - Sp*rs; Manure; even Citeh this season so far and potentially Villa - given their respective league positions and performances to date - are not models that I want to see us emulate. I would rather prioritise long term improvement - particularly given our consistent league positions since 2022/23.

I believe that a forward signing was needed mostly to ease the burden on our exisiting players - particularly Havertz - and I agree that an injury to him would be a disaster, and not bringing in a reinforcement is a big risk. But let's face it, any further injuries to our key players would effectively eliminate our title prospects, new striker or not. I think that the club has taken the view that the league is most likely beyond us now this season, but top 4 (the absolute imperative) is reaslistic even given our lack of transfer activity. There is logic for me in Arsenal taking this approach.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yes - I agree to a degree with the contrarians...

1. Despite Arteta obviously preferring a January forward signing to compensate for Jesus' long term injury, it's clear that the club has prioritised long term planning over short term reactionary signings. For me, this is a question of balancing risk. Would a striker have increased our limited prospects of winning the league or the CL this season - probably. But long term, spending money and big wages on a forward who is of the requisite standard now would inevitably reduce our prospects of signing top talent in the Summer, and therefore elevating the team going forwards. For me, our reported interest in Watkins tells us that he was someone on the club's radar already (albeit not the top option). I think that if Villa had been prepared to let him go, Watkins would have been our principal striker for the next 2/3 years and we would not have made a further 'top' signing up front in the Summer. This would have been a risk, given his age and the fact that last season may have been his high point. When this transfer failed to materialise, it's clear that the club were not prepared to take a punt outside a long term target and I can see the logic in sticking to a long term plan over a short term one.

2. We are the second highest goal scorers in the EPL this season, behind only Liverpool. We were in the same position last season. Let's face it, in both seasons, Jesus (4 EPL goals last season, 3 this) was hardly a factor. I would not even be particularly surprised if Sterling ends up matching his tally - as abject as he has been. So I can see why the club has not been principally motivated by his injury. While I am sure that a 'top' striker is in the club's longer term plans, our present incarnation is a team that shares the goals around and I have no doubt that our ability to do so fed into the decision not to sign a forward in this window.

3. On our current model, Saka is an incredibly important source of goals for us. But while he is out until at least next month, Nwaneri is suddenly turning out to be a credible understudy for him. I can see how the club thinks that if Nwaneri can chip in with 3 or 4 goals until Saka returns, this internal solution is as good as a player like Tel (who is untested and will need acclimatisation to the EPL) and that hijacking the Tel loan to Spurs would potentially deny Nwaneri playing time.

4. Then there is availability. There was clearly noone available in January whom the club felt would elevate our level. It's easy to feel that any warm body will do, but equally it's easy to fall into the washing machine of buying out of desperation, or hope rather than expectation. The 'big' teams that have done so recently - Sp*rs; Manure; even Citeh this season so far and potentially Villa - given their respective league positions and performances to date - are not models that I want to see us emulate. I would rather prioritise long term improvement - particularly given our consistent league positions since 2022/23.

I believe that a forward signing was needed mostly to ease the burden on our exisiting players - particularly Havertz - and I agree that an injury to him would be a disaster, and not bringing in a reinforcement is a big risk. But let's face it, any further injuries to our key players would effectively eliminate our title prospects, new striker or not. I think that the club has taken the view that the league is most likely beyond us now this season, but top 4 (the absolute imperative) is reaslistic even given our lack of transfer activity. There is logic for me in Arsenal taking this approach.

Mainly because im coming on here to avoid getting work done (but in the process getting behind). I’m just going to respond with this.


:gp:

[Chippy]

Only if the Kroenkes have secretly bet their entire fortune on Liverpool winning the league

Terrible window which says everything about Arteta and the club's lack of understanding of how we needed to bolster our attack

I already thought the league was gone but IMO the CL was at least a possibility if we'd brought another striker in

I honestly felt that this would be the best chance to win the Champions League this year. Not now.

The club are putting profits before success, sadly.

[Niall_Quinn]

I honestly felt that this would be the best chance to win the Champions League this year. Not now.

The club are putting profits before success, sadly.

I have never, at any point in the last couple of decades and particularly this season thought we had the faintest chance of winning the CL. We've never hit the levels of consistency that convinced me we wouldn't fuck it up during the sequence of performances required to win it.

But people seem to have amnesia when it comes to the PL run-in. There are always swings and plots twists in the final few weeks. Even now I don't consider us out of it and I don't think Liverpool are superior to us, in fact I think they have been the weakest league leaders in some time. They are clearly favourites but a couple of injuries here, a couple of dropped points there, a dodgy penalty, all the things that have happened at Arsenal could happen at Liverpool too and we should have done everything in our power this January to ensure we are there to take advantage if they slip up.

This isn't about long term plans or strategies or wage bills or anything that doesn't directly impact what happens on the pitch. This is about selling strikers and not replacing them in the summer - so now we say, wait until the summer and we'll get a striker. Says who? We didn't get one when we needed him last summer and we didn't get him when we needed him this month. This is about losing Jesus and not doing something to correct that when we had the chance. This is about winning titles when we have the opportunity to win titles - right now. If we can write that off and say, wait until the summer and then next season, then give it up now. Because something else will happen in the summer and next season that will then become the excuse to hurry up and wait some more. Jam tomorrow when the jar is open now.

It's like we are trying to paint the perfect picture of a football club, all we need is for our opponents to stand still and not disturb us. We were 2 points behind city last season and now they have dropped a level. That was when we should have been stepping up a level, particularly in the transfer market. Instead we sold players and kept the money. And brought in a has-been on loan that wasn't a good player before he came here and still isn't now that he's here. Cheap, insufficient, and I'd call it negligent.

I'm not up for hearing more excuses from these owners, or the manager or anyone who isn't 100% committed to winning this title, this year.

And maybe we still can if, scandalously, we can rely on the maligned Havertz to just keep going in the hope he doesn't drop, and if we can pile a ton of pressure and expectation on a 17 year old kid. This is not a smart strategy in any context. It smacks far more of incompetence. Or lack of ambition.

Other clubs managed to freshen up their squads this window. They'll face all the perceived problems and issues some say we can't afford to face. We could have and were compelled to do the same and we didn't even try, apart from nosing around the players we were never getting - like Watkins - and blatantly ignoring those that were there for the taking given some determination and a decent bid - like Vlahovic or Gyokeres.

We can try to decipher what's going on at the club and be generous in our conclusions, but it's also fair to look at it and say, here we go, same old Arsenal. The Kroenke's told us to get excited. We gave them another chance, which we shouldn't have done considering the way the hid behind Wenger with their wallet clamped shut. Fool me once...

[HCZ_Reborn]

I have never, at any point in the last couple of decades and particularly this season thought we had the faintest chance of winning the CL. We've never hit the levels of consistency that convinced me we wouldn't fuck it up during the sequence of performances required to win it.

But people seem to have amnesia when it comes to the PL run-in. There are always swings and plots twists in the final few weeks. Even now I don't consider us out of it and I don't think Liverpool are superior to us, in fact I think they have been the weakest league leaders in some time. They are clearly favourites but a couple of injuries here, a couple of dropped points there, a dodgy penalty, all the things that have happened at Arsenal could happen at Liverpool too and we should have done everything in our power this January to ensure we are there to take advantage if they slip up.

This isn't about long term plans or strategies or wage bills or anything that doesn't directly impact what happens on the pitch. This is about selling strikers and not replacing them in the summer - so now we say, wait until the summer and we'll get a striker. Says who? We didn't get one when we needed him last summer and we didn't get him when we needed him this month. This is about losing Jesus and not doing something to correct that when we had the chance. This is about winning titles when we have the opportunity to win titles - right now. If we can write that off and say, wait until the summer and then next season, then give it up now. Because something else will happen in the summer and next season that will then become the excuse to hurry up and wait some more. Jam tomorrow when the jar is open now.

It's like we are trying to paint the perfect picture of a football club, all we need is for our opponents to stand still and not disturb us. We were 2 points behind city last season and now they have dropped a level. That was when we should have been stepping up a level, particularly in the transfer market. Instead we sold players and kept the money. And brought in a has-been on loan that wasn't a good player before he came here and still isn't now that he's here. Cheap, insufficient, and I'd call it negligent.

I'm not up for hearing more excuses from these owners, or the manager or anyone who isn't 100% committed to winning this title, this year.

And maybe we still can if, scandalously, we can rely on the maligned Havertz to just keep going in the hope he doesn't drop, and if we can pile a ton of pressure and expectation on a 17 year old kid. This is not a smart strategy in any context. It smacks far more of incompetence. Or lack of ambition.

Other clubs managed to freshen up their squads this window. They'll face all the perceived problems and issues some say we can't afford to face. We could have and were compelled to do the same and we didn't even try, apart from nosing around the players we were never getting - like Watkins - and blatantly ignoring those that were there for the taking given some determination and a decent bid - like Vlahovic or Gyokeres.

We can try to decipher what's going on at the club and be generous in our conclusions, but it's also fair to look at it and say, here we go, same old Arsenal. The Kroenke's told us to get excited. We gave them another chance, which we shouldn't have done considering the way the hid behind Wenger with their wallet clamped shut. Fool me once...

It’s not that I massively disagree with most of what you’re saying, in a perfect world we’d have the owners who would spend the money to get us a replacement for Jesus in the here and now as well as get us a striker in the summer (and the finances would allow for us to do so). But we don’t.

That we don’t have the ownership that has that ambition should be a surprise to no one. But unless you’re planning on forming a consortium of investors that could make Tom Selleck an offer he can’t refuse (plomo o plata) it seems easier to deal with the situation as it exists

[Niall_Quinn]

It’s not that I massively disagree with most of what you’re saying, in a perfect world we’d have the owners who would spend the money to get us a replacement for Jesus in the here and now as well as get us a striker in the summer (and the finances would allow for us to do so). But we don’t.

That we don’t have the ownership that has that ambition should be a surprise to no one. But unless you’re planning on forming a consortium of investors that could make Tom Selleck an offer he can’t refuse (plomo o plata) it seems easier to deal with the situation as it exists

Yeah but let's not make excuses for them so they can ride out their complacency in luxury. I'm not ready to condemn Arteta yet, but it is kind of strange that Edu fucked off and the transfers fell off a cliff. Not saying Edu was some genius either. The indicators do seem to point to a shift in intent though, one which he maybe picked up on and thought, oh well, they don't need me then.

I think we're up there with face pressed against the glass, within touching distance both in the PL and Europe. And I think this is good enough for the likes of Kroenke. It's enough. No need to go that extra yard when all his key financial boxes are ticked off and general favourability with the customer base is acceptable. This is why I'm not convinced the summer argument is a sure thing. We just went through a crucial summer and did nothing. Evidence, so far, does not support some of the arguments and calls for patience being made here.

More likely I see us slowly trailing off until the fans get restless again and, finally, some of the profits get fed back to give us a little jolt and start the cycle again. So that's what the fans should focus on now, holding the club to account in the summer and not forgetting this transfer window or the last just because they can buy an expensive Zubimendi shirt (which probably won't look anything like the Arsenal shirt, again)

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t think anyone is 100% convinced by the summer argument, it’s just what choice do you have. Plus if you flip the equation, if we wouldn’t sell one of our top players half way through the season you’d have to conclude other clubs won’t either

I blame Arteta because it’s whilst it’s clear that because we are getting into top 4, the wallet is now closed….nothing stopped him from buying strikers at any time over the last few years. We are in the situation where we desperately need a striker because of Arteta. We are meant to believe that he has a Goldilocks attitude to strikers (have to be just right) when he’s had no trouble piling up a load of sub par full backs, goalkeepers etc


We only have Havertz because Arteta relented from using him in the no 8 role. The guy is a complete cunt. One doesn’t have to absolve KSE of just using us as an asset for their portfolio to acknowledge this

[Niall_Quinn]

I don’t think anyone is 100% convinced by the summer argument, it’s just what choice do you have. Plus if you flip the equation, if we wouldn’t sell one of our top players half way through the season you’d have to conclude other clubs won’t either

I blame Arteta because it’s whilst it’s clear that because we are getting into top 4, the wallet is now closed….nothing stopped him from buying strikers at any time over the last few years. We are in the situation where we desperately need a striker because of Arteta. We are meant to believe that he has a Goldilocks attitude to strikers (have to be just right) when he’s had no trouble piling up a load of sub par full backs, goalkeepers etc


We only have Havertz because Arteta relented from using him in the no 8 role. The guy is a complete cunt. One doesn’t have to absolve KSE of just using us as an asset for their portfolio to acknowledge this

Right, there is some truth to the argument Arteta is allergic to strikers when you look at the transfer business and the way he eased Auba out. Plus the years spent with Pep who brought Barcelona to Manchester along with his Villa/ Aguero and (ironically) Jesus notions on what makes a striker. But even Pep has relented. So I hope it's not that with Arteta or else we're fucked anyway. And that would make the talk of Isak pure smokescreen, more concern for next summer.

As for not wanting to sell and therefore not being able to buy, Vlahovic has refused to sign a new contract and (IIRC) has a buy-out clause. And Gyokeres has 4 months left to run on his contract doesn't he? And a buy-out clause. I can see the players would be sitting there themselves waiting for the summer and the chance to secure big signing bonuses. So trigger their clauses, pay the fee, bundle the signing-fee on top. Either of those players would not just solve the problem this season but they'd also satisfy the requirements of the summer window. Not saying it couldn't be done for sure, but it doesn't look like we made much of an effort after the initial approach.

The Watkins thing was full Suarez + £1 territory again. Embarrassing. But also instructive and a clue to the real intentions, conning the fans. Another bad indicator for the summer.

And do we actually want Isak btw? Is there a chance he's just Jesus MkII? And at 120-150mill? That's not going to happen, is it? And it probably shouldn't happen.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Isaak would make sense in so far that Arteta like a lot of coaches goes with what he knows. He is from San Sebastián, therefore him looking to build his team on ex Sociedad players would be no more strange than if you or I coached a big name European club and wanted to build a team that includes Arsenal players past and present.

It’s possible that we are hoping that Newcastle miss out on top four again, and the pressing issue of being FSR compliant means we have more leverage over them. I don’t think he’d be Jesus mark 2 because Jesus was never exactly prolific even at Man City where as Isak yes there are injury question marks but he’s almost got to 50 goals in less than 75 games. In a day and age where top strikers are at a premium, that’s stand up and take notice stats

[Niall_Quinn]

Isaak would make sense in so far that Arteta like a lot of coaches goes with what he knows. He is from San Sebastián, therefore him looking to build his team on ex Sociedad players would be no more strange than if you or I coached a big name European club and wanted to build a team that includes Arsenal players past and present.

It’s possible that we are hoping that Newcastle miss out on top four again, and the pressing issue of being FSR compliant means we have more leverage over them. I don’t think he’d be Jesus mark 2 because Jesus was never exactly prolific even at Man City where as Isak yes there are injury question marks but he’s almost got to 50 goals in less than 75 games. In a day and age where top strikers are at a premium, that’s stand up and take notice stats

Fewer

[Niall_Quinn]

Apart from which, what would it have been like to come off the back of a 5-1 against city and then welcome a new striker to boost the whole club and signal to our one remaining rival we are out for blood. It HAD to be done, didn't it? Essential for so many reasons.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Apart from which, what would it have been like to come off the back of a 5-1 against city and then welcome a new striker to boost the whole club and signal to our one remaining rival we are out for blood. It HAD to be done, didn't it? Essential for so many reasons.

Despite what we did to Citeh, everyone was still unanimous that we needed a striker, and to any normal person, if you outdid everyone's expectations and people are still saying the same thing, "you could have and should have done better if you had a.....", it should ring alarm bells.

However, what is done is done.

If we end up with nothing at the end of the season, there remains mainly one person to blame and even a schoolboy when asked will respond that Arsenal won nothing in 24/25 because their manager stuck out his middle finger to the whole world.

[Niall_Quinn]

According to gunnerblog, so maybe true, maybe partially true, maybe false, maybe entirely made up for clicks...

On the 18th Jan at the Villa match Villa offered us Watkins for 60 mill.

Arteta wanted the deal even though he knew it would scupper the Sesko deal in the summer.

But club execs weren't sure because of the player's age and the probably limited sell-on fee.

However, Arteta got his way so Josh Kroenke flew in to discuss the details at an internal meeting.

On the 27 Jan we made a bid for 40 mill which Villa rejected out of hand.

We went back with a £40mill + £1 bid (okay, I made that bit up)

By then the Saudia had come in for Duran, 74mill or something like that plus ridiculously good terms for the player. Deal done.

Watkins deal dead.

Jan 28, media says we are back in for Watkins. And the rumours persist all the way to the window slamming shut.

[Mac76]

I'd trust Gunnerblog more than a lot of people

It also sounds like a typical Arsenal fuckup tbh

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ornstein as I posted earlier, seems to have suggested a similar story

[Niall_Quinn]

And Arteta has just publicly expressed his disappointment about not landing a striker.

Oh dear. Could this be one miserly, penny-pinching step too far for these bean counters posing as football men?

[IBK]

I have never, at any point in the last couple of decades and particularly this season thought we had the faintest chance of winning the CL. We've never hit the levels of consistency that convinced me we wouldn't fuck it up during the sequence of performances required to win it.

But people seem to have amnesia when it comes to the PL run-in. There are always swings and plots twists in the final few weeks. Even now I don't consider us out of it and I don't think Liverpool are superior to us, in fact I think they have been the weakest league leaders in some time. They are clearly favourites but a couple of injuries here, a couple of dropped points there, a dodgy penalty, all the things that have happened at Arsenal could happen at Liverpool too and we should have done everything in our power this January to ensure we are there to take advantage if they slip up.

This isn't about long term plans or strategies or wage bills or anything that doesn't directly impact what happens on the pitch. This is about selling strikers and not replacing them in the summer - so now we say, wait until the summer and we'll get a striker. Says who? We didn't get one when we needed him last summer and we didn't get him when we needed him this month. This is about losing Jesus and not doing something to correct that when we had the chance. This is about winning titles when we have the opportunity to win titles - right now. If we can write that off and say, wait until the summer and then next season, then give it up now. Because something else will happen in the summer and next season that will then become the excuse to hurry up and wait some more. Jam tomorrow when the jar is open now.

It's like we are trying to paint the perfect picture of a football club, all we need is for our opponents to stand still and not disturb us. We were 2 points behind city last season and now they have dropped a level. That was when we should have been stepping up a level, particularly in the transfer market. Instead we sold players and kept the money. And brought in a has-been on loan that wasn't a good player before he came here and still isn't now that he's here. Cheap, insufficient, and I'd call it negligent.

I'm not up for hearing more excuses from these owners, or the manager or anyone who isn't 100% committed to winning this title, this year.

And maybe we still can if, scandalously, we can rely on the maligned Havertz to just keep going in the hope he doesn't drop, and if we can pile a ton of pressure and expectation on a 17 year old kid. This is not a smart strategy in any context. It smacks far more of incompetence. Or lack of ambition.

Other clubs managed to freshen up their squads this window. They'll face all the perceived problems and issues some say we can't afford to face. We could have and were compelled to do the same and we didn't even try, apart from nosing around the players we were never getting - like Watkins - and blatantly ignoring those that were there for the taking given some determination and a decent bid - like Vlahovic or Gyokeres.

We can try to decipher what's going on at the club and be generous in our conclusions, but it's also fair to look at it and say, here we go, same old Arsenal. The Kroenke's told us to get excited. We gave them another chance, which we shouldn't have done considering the way the hid behind Wenger with their wallet clamped shut. Fool me once...

OK so we are aligned on last Summer's business insofar as there was evident negligence in seeking to strengthen our forward department (and re our second GK BTW). The club seemed obsessed with getting players out, and got rid of 4 forwards without bringing in any credible replacements (Sterling was clearly an unplanned last minute punt made in near desperation). I don't think this is hindsight either. Arsenal took a huge risk on Jesus' resurrection and Arteta being able to revive Sterling - and this has backfired. While the injury record of Partey and the questions surrounding Zinchenko, you can make a case for buying Calafiori and Merino, but this should not have been the total of our acquisitions for a team with ambitions to win the league. I am still mystified why we couldn't snap up Ivan Toney when I think he would have been great for a title push.

So risks and 'jam tomorrow' there.

But I don't think the same criticism can be levelled at this transfer window, for the reasons I set out in my post above. The damage had been done already, and given Liverpool's lead and the clear absence of options available to raise our level I don't think January was the time to try to rectify our Summer errors.

I don't think either that its as simple as saying that the owners and the manager lack ambition. The Kroenkes have spent a lot of money over the past 3 years or so, and part of our predicament has been (1) that unlike say Liverpool we started from a very poor base in terms of quality of players and had to spend big to catch up, and (2) our relative lack of recent success, combined with a downturn in clubs' finances accross Europe, meant that we lacked the ability to raise funds via player sales. Its easy to say - here are billionaire owners so the money is there, but like it or not we are run with one eye on sustainablility.

Aretea has neglected our forward line, but I don't think this equates to not wanting to win things. Nor do I think that (like AW) he is content with 4th place. I think it is more about our manager's natural proclivity towards control and structure - and perhaps a lack of flexibility particularly regarding strikers that he want's to be 'just right' to spend money on. I think he has been burnt by strikers in the past, and is wedded to the idea of his system producing goals rather than individual players.

I think also that our opinions need to be tempered a bit. I believe that but for some unbelievably harsh refereeing decisions that could not have been legislated for by the club, we would be well in this title race despite very bad luck with injuries (that Liverpool have avoided in the main). We are still second in the league and (I believe) the best team in the league (opinion not empirical evidence, obviously). Yes, we are a Havertz injury away from a massive problem, but let's not criticise too much based on 'what if's'. If you ask me whether I would prefer to be a City; Villa or Spurs (of the so-called 'top teams' that have been active in the January window) than Arsenal - I think the answer is pretty obvious.

So I might be regarded as lacking ambition in my opinion on our club, but I still believe that we have the base for success. Is it ideal to now wait until another Summer to see evidence of a planned intention to progress (assuming that we don't win the league)? No. But winning is not a given, no matter who you sign, and I think I'd rather be patient for another season than crashing and burning by making a reactive decision in January.

[Niall_Quinn]

OK so we are aligned on last Summer's business insofar as there was evident negligence in seeking to strengthen our forward department (and re our second GK BTW). The club seemed obsessed with getting players out, and got rid of 4 forwards without bringing in any credible replacements (Sterling was clearly an unplanned last minute punt made in near desperation). I don't think this is hindsight either. Arsenal took a huge risk on Jesus' resurrection and Arteta being able to revive Sterling - and this has backfired. While the injury record of Partey and the questions surrounding Zinchenko, you can make a case for buying Calafiori and Merino, but this should not have been the total of our acquisitions for a team with ambitions to win the league. I am still mystified why we couldn't snap up Ivan Toney when I think he would have been great for a title push.

So risks and 'jam tomorrow' there.

But I don't think the same criticism can be levelled at this transfer window, for the reasons I set out in my post above. The damage had been done already, and given Liverpool's lead and the clear absence of options available to raise our level I don't think January was the time to try to rectify our Summer errors.

I don't think either that its as simple as saying that the owners and the manager lack ambition. The Kroenkes have spent a lot of money over the past 3 years or so, and part of our predicament has been (1) that unlike say Liverpool we started from a very poor base in terms of quality of players and had to spend big to catch up, and (2) our relative lack of recent success, combined with a downturn in clubs' finances accross Europe, meant that we lacked the ability to raise funds via player sales. Its easy to say - here are billionaire owners so the money is there, but like it or not we are run with one eye on sustainablility.

Aretea has neglected our forward line, but I don't think this equates to not wanting to win things. Nor do I think that (like AW) he is content with 4th place. I think it is more about our manager's natural proclivity towards control and structure - and perhaps a lack of flexibility particularly regarding strikers that he want's to be 'just right' to spend money on. I think he has been burnt by strikers in the past, and is wedded to the idea of his system producing goals rather than individual players.

I think also that our opinions need to be tempered a bit. I believe that but for some unbelievably harsh refereeing decisions that could not have been legislated for by the club, we would be well in this title race despite very bad luck with injuries (that Liverpool have avoided in the main). We are still second in the league and (I believe) the best team in the league (opinion not empirical evidence, obviously). Yes, we are a Havertz injury away from a massive problem, but let's not criticise too much based on 'what if's'. If you ask me whether I would prefer to be a City; Villa or Spurs (of the so-called 'top teams' that have been active in the January window) than Arsenal - I think the answer is pretty obvious.

So I might be regarded as lacking ambition in my opinion on our club, but I still believe that we have the base for success. Is it ideal to now wait until another Summer to see evidence of a planned intention to progress (assuming that we don't win the league)? No. But winning is not a given, no matter who you sign, and I think I'd rather be patient for another season than crashing and burning by making a reactive decision in January.

You've just said it yourself though, despite horrific officiating and also the key injuries, we are still a good team, the best you say. And we've finished 3rd in the CL qualifiers and we're second in the PL, we still have to go to Anfield and Liverpool still have to navigate through tough games and avoid the issues we have face (and most teams eventually face over the course of a season). So we aren't out of this title yet, and we aren't out of the CL yet.

We didn't help ourselves at all in the summer, agreed. So here was a chance to rectify that. And it's not as if there wasn't talent out there we could have picked up, in fact it now sounds like we could have signed Watkins if we chose to do that, and that manager wanted to do that. But we had non-football people banging on about age and sell-on fees. The sustainable gang. Well I would say of that's the goal, sustainability to the last penny, it's the very definition of a lack of ambition in football or any sport. Not saying they should put in stupid bids for unnecessary players, but can you think of a time, a critical point in any season, when we more desperately needed a specific type of player? And we didn't do that. Because the sell-on fee might be an issue.

Sounds like Arteta had to persuade them to back him. Sounds like Arteta also realised there was no option here, we had to get a striker in. Sounds like all the usual shit that has plagued Arsenal over so many years scuppered that deal again. How is that classed as ambition? It's more like sabotage. Sustainable, for sure, they've kept their money in their pockets, can't get more sustainable than that. But serving the interests of the club, to win on the pitch and bring in trophies, which we actually have a chance of doing? It's bullshit, an abandonment of duty and a disregard for the reason we're all here. If the whole Watkins thing goes wrong then sell him in the summer and take the loss. Or sell some other player who we don't actually need (like Zinchenko) and offset that against Watkin's undesirable sell-on fee.

Watkins aside, what about Rashford. Yes, as distasteful as that might be. Was that deal undoable as well? Even on a loan? I don't know, maybe Utd wouldn't have even spoken to us, but surely they are more concerned with Villa's fortunes than ours this season. Or any of the loan deals that were made, that Evan Ferguson kid. Arsenal standard? I don't know. Was MLS or Nwaneri Arsenal standard before they got a chance?

I don't think the club has a lg to stand on here. I think this is pure negligence and I think that negligence has come about due to a complete lack of ambition. What other reason can there be? Are we saying we'll go bust if we sign Watkins? We can't work around that? Are we saying our summer plan is so exceptional and so guaranteed we could do nothing to jeapordise that, even as Saka and Jesus are laid up in the treatment room?

I see ample evidence for a lack of ambition. I see a make-do-and-mend mentality. Keep us bubbling at just the level so those seats are occupied and that waiting list is long and that shop has the tills ringing. That's how they measure success, not in trophies but in profit margins. I;d also like to see a real breakdown of expenditure over the Kroenke years, not just gross and net spends. I want to see the full amount of what came in and what percentage of that was then returned in transfer activity, both in and out. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that number was heavily weighted in the Kronekes' favour. I don't know those numbers, would just be interested to see them. Sustainability would mean us balancing what comes in and what goes out, wouldn't it? Is that what we have been doing or is cash piling up in Kroenke's bank account. It's time to start looking into that again.

I didn't want to see a buzzing transfer window for the excitement of it. I wanted to see bodies coming in to replace the fallen bodies who aren't on the pitch. That's just common sense and all the other considerations be damned. We have to get from here to the end of the season and do the best we can with the 3 chances we have to land silverware. But if we are saying, forget this season, wait until the summer and then we go again next season - well how is that not a lack of ambition when 3 chances of silverware are still there, in front of us? How?

I think it's important Arteta has made a statement about his disappointment because now, hopefully, the fans can get behind him and the players (who did excellently against Wolves and then city), and point the finger where it deserves to be pointed.

I mean in the end, Kroenke has sent daddy's boy from over the pond to run a club that has almost as much history as the USA. Fuck that and fuck them.

Jesus injured, Saka injured, Eddie sold and Sterling literally this bum living in our house. Did we absolutely need to do business this transfer window? How could anyone suggest we didn't?

Well, I'm going to back Haverta and Trossard and Martinelli and that kid on which we have now pinned so much, Nwaneri, and I'm even going to pray to the gods that Sterling somehow managed to conjure up some las hurrah. Then I'm going to pray for a miracle that none of them get injured between now and the end of the season. Because that's all the penny-pinching, blind and disinterested accountants who run this club have left us with.

In my book, bastards to a man and it would be better if they would GTFO and let somebody come in and push this club the last few yards.

[Niall_Quinn]

Also hearing that Gyokeres' buyout clause is 15 mill cheaper in the summer than in the january window. If true then we've basically said we won't take a 15 mill punt, before everyone piles in in the summer, on securing our striker for the next 3-4 years.

Good grief. They just bagged 90 mill in the qualifying stages of the CL. Certainly not all profit, probably only a small part of that will be net profit. But with a proper striker up front from the latter stages of the tournament we might make MORE money, right? Millions and millions more, if that's what it is ultimately all about. So even if you discount the Kroenke's lack of interest in sport and his disinterest in winning shit, you could also say they are too miserly to even speculate to accumulate.

[Niall_Quinn]

Not having a go at you btw IBK, appreciate the post and I CAN see there is another side to the argument. It's just I don't find it convincing given the urgency of the present situation. It really annoys me to throw away this season for want of - what will we call it? - an admission we fucked up in the summer? Or, even simpler, a logical, reasonable, sensible response to an unfortunate injury situation.

I see the whole thing as crazy. When you MUST do something and you do NOTHING, what are the predictions for your fortunes?

[Niall_Quinn]

Funnily enough, if I don't stop posting here and I don't get back to work and finish something that MUST be completed I'll be deep in the shit. I'm not even questioning whether I should stop now and get to work. Why would I even need to question that unless I'm actively seeking disaster?

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Tbh I can't really get it in to my head that the title is anywhere near done. Right now it's 6 points and a game in hand against Everton. A game in hand at Goodison for us is different to a game in h... blah blah. There's still that many games left. That many games which come after Champions Leagues weeks for example, 6 points is nothing.

As much as neither you or us won't be perfect between now and the end of the season, which for however many years we've almost had to be (and there is something to that fact; if a team isn't constantly winning shockingly neither do you; but it really wouldn't surprise me if at some point in the next few months you are, if not in front, then within one game/level.

On the other hand, I am a pessimistic fuck. Hopefully you'll get a few more sent off for kicking the ball away tbf...

[Marc Overmars]

If you win at Goodison and take it to 9 points I think it’s pretty much done. I really don’t see us being perfect enough to claw back that big of a gap. Still a lot of banana skins for us both but there’s a lot that needs to go right for us to make this an interesting race.

I did see that Anfield is 3rd last fixture of the season. If we’re within touching distance by that game what an mental occasion that will be.

[Letters]

If you win at Goodison and take it to 9 points I think it’s pretty much done. I really don’t see us being perfect enough to claw back that big of a gap. Still a lot of banana skins for us both but there’s a lot that needs to go right for us to make this an interesting race.

I did see that Anfield is 3rd last fixture of the season. If we’re within touching distance by that game what an mental occasion that will be.

:gp:

We really have to hope Everton do us a favour. 6 points I'm not too worried about, there's long enough to go that we could get that back. 9 points...not so much.
I guess a draw would acceptable and probably the best we can hope for.

[WMUG]

I dunno, last Derby at Goodison. Place will be rocking, team motivated, still enjoying the new manager bounce.

An Everton win isn't beyond the realms of possibility.

[Mac76]

I dunno, last Derby at Goodison. Place will be rocking, team motivated, still enjoying the new manager bounce.

An Everton win isn't beyond the realms of possibility.

I still think Liverpool will spoil that particular party, I think the title is done, there's no 'race', but if we can tread water to make top 4 and prioritise the LC and CL we could get something

[IBK]

You've just said it yourself though, despite horrific officiating and also the key injuries, we are still a good team, the best you say. And we've finished 3rd in the CL qualifiers and we're second in the PL, we still have to go to Anfield and Liverpool still have to navigate through tough games and avoid the issues we have face (and most teams eventually face over the course of a season). So we aren't out of this title yet, and we aren't out of the CL yet.

We didn't help ourselves at all in the summer, agreed. So here was a chance to rectify that. And it's not as if there wasn't talent out there we could have picked up, in fact it now sounds like we could have signed Watkins if we chose to do that, and that manager wanted to do that. But we had non-football people banging on about age and sell-on fees. The sustainable gang. Well I would say of that's the goal, sustainability to the last penny, it's the very definition of a lack of ambition in football or any sport. Not saying they should put in stupid bids for unnecessary players, but can you think of a time, a critical point in any season, when we more desperately needed a specific type of player? And we didn't do that. Because the sell-on fee might be an issue.

Sounds like Arteta had to persuade them to back him. Sounds like Arteta also realised there was no option here, we had to get a striker in. Sounds like all the usual shit that has plagued Arsenal over so many years scuppered that deal again. How is that classed as ambition? It's more like sabotage. Sustainable, for sure, they've kept their money in their pockets, can't get more sustainable than that. But serving the interests of the club, to win on the pitch and bring in trophies, which we actually have a chance of doing? It's bullshit, an abandonment of duty and a disregard for the reason we're all here. If the whole Watkins thing goes wrong then sell him in the summer and take the loss. Or sell some other player who we don't actually need (like Zinchenko) and offset that against Watkin's undesirable sell-on fee.

Watkins aside, what about Rashford. Yes, as distasteful as that might be. Was that deal undoable as well? Even on a loan? I don't know, maybe Utd wouldn't have even spoken to us, but surely they are more concerned with Villa's fortunes than ours this season. Or any of the loan deals that were made, that Evan Ferguson kid. Arsenal standard? I don't know. Was MLS or Nwaneri Arsenal standard before they got a chance?

I don't think the club has a lg to stand on here. I think this is pure negligence and I think that negligence has come about due to a complete lack of ambition. What other reason can there be? Are we saying we'll go bust if we sign Watkins? We can't work around that? Are we saying our summer plan is so exceptional and so guaranteed we could do nothing to jeapordise that, even as Saka and Jesus are laid up in the treatment room?

I see ample evidence for a lack of ambition. I see a make-do-and-mend mentality. Keep us bubbling at just the level so those seats are occupied and that waiting list is long and that shop has the tills ringing. That's how they measure success, not in trophies but in profit margins. I;d also like to see a real breakdown of expenditure over the Kroenke years, not just gross and net spends. I want to see the full amount of what came in and what percentage of that was then returned in transfer activity, both in and out. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that number was heavily weighted in the Kronekes' favour. I don't know those numbers, would just be interested to see them. Sustainability would mean us balancing what comes in and what goes out, wouldn't it? Is that what we have been doing or is cash piling up in Kroenke's bank account. It's time to start looking into that again.

I didn't want to see a buzzing transfer window for the excitement of it. I wanted to see bodies coming in to replace the fallen bodies who aren't on the pitch. That's just common sense and all the other considerations be damned. We have to get from here to the end of the season and do the best we can with the 3 chances we have to land silverware. But if we are saying, forget this season, wait until the summer and then we go again next season - well how is that not a lack of ambition when 3 chances of silverware are still there, in front of us? How?

I think it's important Arteta has made a statement about his disappointment because now, hopefully, the fans can get behind him and the players (who did excellently against Wolves and then city), and point the finger where it deserves to be pointed.

I mean in the end, Kroenke has sent daddy's boy from over the pond to run a club that has almost as much history as the USA. Fuck that and fuck them.

Jesus injured, Saka injured, Eddie sold and Sterling literally this bum living in our house. Did we absolutely need to do business this transfer window? How could anyone suggest we didn't?

Well, I'm going to back Haverta and Trossard and Martinelli and that kid on which we have now pinned so much, Nwaneri, and I'm even going to pray to the gods that Sterling somehow managed to conjure up some las hurrah. Then I'm going to pray for a miracle that none of them get injured between now and the end of the season. Because that's all the penny-pinching, blind and disinterested accountants who run this club have left us with.

In my book, bastards to a man and it would be better if they would GTFO and let somebody come in and push this club the last few yards.

So...I get the lack of ambition argument, and I think this is a valid way to look at things...but not the only one.

If we pan out - the era of unbridled/unplanned spending appears to be over. We all feared that Newcastle would dominate the league when the Saudi's took over, but they have been shackled by FFP. Citeh have done some spending in this transfer window - but everyone sensible can see that these acquisitions are for the future - as a rebuild is necessary. Chelsea have (mystifyingly) managed to spunk billions but their approach seems to be to buy every young prospect in football, tie them to hugely long contracts and then sieve them to try to create a winning team - again a longer term play. Investors like the Kroenke's are almost certainly seeing things longer term. Like I say, they have spent a lot of money - particularly considering our historic failure to gain decent returns on players sold (not to mention having to pay to get 3 of our most expensive signings out of the club).

We are agreed that Summer was a bust for us...but I'm not sure that the conclusion that this was down to a lack of ambition rather than an over-rigid policy that dictated we get the 'ideal' player rather than none at all.

Like I say, January was for me more of the same - either we were able to land a player who fitted exactly the mould that the manager wanted (remember that all of our players under Arteta - including strikers - have to be monsters off the ball and defend from the front as well as being able to do their primary job - so it's a small pool we are looking at) - or we would leave it. If there is truth in the rumours about the Watkins negotiations, then it can definitely be argued that we went in too low, but conversely it could be pointed out that only a fool starts negotiations at the asking price - and the deal was ultimately scuppered by Duran going to Saudi which in fairness was not something the club (or anyone) would have expected. One man's lack of ambition here is another man's prudence - which is not the same thing.

As for loans for Rashford and Ferguson - as I understand it we have filled our allocation for EPL loans, so this was not an option for Arsenal.

I am disappointed (as Arteta says he is) that we didn't sign a striker in January, and the Summer was clearly a mis-step (negligence in the Summer - probably). But lack of ambition is a bit black and white thinking for me, and like me, I am sure that Arteta understands that there are many factors at play when it comes to deciding whether to stick to long term targets or risk spending resources on players who either don't lift the ceiling or could backfire (like a 29 year old striker), and affect the club for years. Also - so-called ambition (when framed purely in player purchases) does not necessarily translate into progress. Just ask Manure; Chelsea or Sp*rs fans...

We are taking big risks, yes, but this does not mean that there is no desire for success at Arsenal - just that the club has elected to take this risk over the equal risk that a mistake could affect us in the longer term. Would I prefer a different balance of risk? Probably. But a cautious approach so far under Arteta can hardly be called a failure. Particularly in the context of how our last 3 seasons have compared to the opposition.

[IBK]

Not having a go at you btw IBK, appreciate the post and I CAN see there is another side to the argument. It's just I don't find it convincing given the urgency of the present situation. It really annoys me to throw away this season for want of - what will we call it? - an admission we fucked up in the summer? Or, even simpler, a logical, reasonable, sensible response to an unfortunate injury situation.

I see the whole thing as crazy. When you MUST do something and you do NOTHING, what are the predictions for your fortunes?

No offence taken at all. It's a really interesting debate :good:

[Mac76]

As for loans for Rashford and Ferguson - as I understand it we have filled our allocation for EPL loans, so this was not an option for Arsenal.



Which needs to be highlighted as another big error, both Neto and Sterling were last-minute panic loans and famously Neto can't play for us in the LC so some of the games he might've taken off Raya were a no-go anyway

[IBK]

Which needs to be highlighted as another big error, both Neto and Sterling were last-minute panic loans and famously Neto can't play for us in the LC so some of the games he might've taken off Raya were a no-go anyway

The error, I think, was in not planning properly for failing to obtain our primary targets. By the time the summer transfer window was closing we had no opportunity but to panic loan.

Ironically, the knock on effect of these 2 loan signings - that prevented us from loaning the likes of Ferguson and Rashford in January - is a great example of how unplanned signings can come back to bite you in maybe unexpected ways. Which partly goes to explain our reticence to do anything re a striker in January.

Like I say, more and more last Summer is turning out to have been the real problem for us. Personally, I look to that rather than our stance in January as the real grounds for criticising the club.

[Mac76]

The error, I think, was in not planning properly for failing to obtain our primary targets. By the time the summer transfer window was closing we had no opportunity but to panic loan.

Ironically, the knock on effect of these 2 loan signings - that prevented us from loaning the likes of Ferguson and Rashford in January - is a great example of how unplanned signings can come back to bite you in maybe unexpected ways. Which partly goes to explain our reticence to do anything re a striker in January.

Like I say, more and more last Summer is turning out to have been the real problem for us. Personally, I look to that rather than our stance in January as the real grounds for criticising the club.

Well yes, exactly, both those panic loans were the result of a poor summer but I think we could still have done more in Jan on the attacking front if we'd been working towards it, instead Arteta thought Jesus was good enough to tide us through, which he never was even when fit

[IBK]

Well yes, exactly, both those panic loans were the result of a poor summer but I think we could still have done more in Jan on the attacking front if we'd been working towards it, instead Arteta thought Jesus was good enough to tide us through, which he never was even when fit

Perhaps re January. I'm not sure there is a right or wrong answer to this in truth. Yes - we are clearly short of a striker, but by the same token there's nothing to say that (1) the right player was available or (2) any signing would not have affected our loger term plans adversely...or guaranteed us the league this season.

Where I agree with you is that there appears to have been a distinct lack of planning in the forward department over the Summer, evidenced by our panic loan signings...

[HCZ_Reborn]

Le Grove who seems to have made himself Minister of propaganda has claimed that the board felt it wasn’t able to get its targets, so it would gamble on the players we had last season getting us the same amount of goals this time around and the enforcement in the left back and midfield areas were in anticipation of expected injuries we might get there.

For me if that was true we wouldn’t have made the move to bring in Sterling on loan. It was a panicked recognition that selling players like we did left us short. I’m no fan of Nelson, I like his work rate but appalling first touch and whilst it’s easy to be wise in hindsight…we’d have been far better off keeping him and leaving Sterling to rot with Chelsea

[Chippy]

Looks like the risk of not buying another striker will come back to hant us....Martinelli is having a scan on his hammy today. You could not make it up.

[Niall_Quinn]

Looks like the risk of not buying another striker will come back to hant us....Martinelli is having a scan on his hammy today. You could not make it up.

It's not bad luck though, is it? I'd rate the chances of us picking up injuries between now and May as close to 100% The chance of those injuries occurring in the players that get tackled the most (or what passed as tackling last night) probably stand a higher chance of getting injured.

The board (not Arteta if the ITKs are not full of shit for a change) decided the close on 100% certainty of picking up injuries was a risk worth taking. That's the bit you couldn't make up. It takes next level incompetence, not a lack of imagination. Or greed beyond measure.

[Mac76]

It's not bad luck though, is it? I'd rate the chances of us picking up injuries between now and May as close to 100% The chance of those injuries occurring in the players that get tackled the most (or what passed as tackling last night) probably stand a higher chance of getting injured.

The board (not Arteta if the ITKs are not full of shit for a change) decided the close on 100% certainty of picking up injuries was a risk worth taking. That's the bit you couldn't make up. It takes next level incompetence, not a lack of imagination. Or greed beyond measure.

agreed on all of that except the bit about greed - if they were greedy they'd want the club to win things as it will increase revenue etc

[Mac76]

:gp:

We really have to hope Everton do us a favour. 6 points I'm not too worried about, there's long enough to go that we could get that back. 9 points...not so much.
I guess a draw would acceptable and probably the best we can hope for.

it is ofc possible we could catch Liverpool, but for me it is very unlikely, hence why in my own mind I'm not holding out any hope

looking at the last ten games both sides have won 6 and drawn 4 - and therein lies the problem, yes Liverpool aren't perfect but we simply have almost no chance of maintaining the type of level, especially with a squad that's dwindling by the minute, to chase them down

[IBK]

It's not bad luck though, is it? I'd rate the chances of us picking up injuries between now and May as close to 100% The chance of those injuries occurring in the players that get tackled the most (or what passed as tackling last night) probably stand a higher chance of getting injured.

The board (not Arteta if the ITKs are not full of shit for a change) decided the close on 100% certainty of picking up injuries was a risk worth taking. That's the bit you couldn't make up. It takes next level incompetence, not a lack of imagination. Or greed beyond measure.

But Arteta has been given £700M to spend on players since he arrived, and we are the third biggest net spenders in the league during this time (after Chelsea and Manure).

I agree that our players are being overplayed, and some of our injuries are down to this. It's obvious that we have under invested in the forwards department. But I am not sure that the fault is simply that the owners don't care, or have refused to make the investments we need. As I've said before, I think this is more likely to be the result of over-rigidity in terms of acceptable transfer targets than simple greed. And I think that if not actively supported by our manager then he is still on board with the club's longer term strategy.

Hopefully Martinelli is OK - and we now have a break to try to get our players firing again.

[Niall_Quinn]

But Arteta has been given £700M to spend on players since he arrived, and we are the third biggest net spenders in the league during this time (after Chelsea and Manure).

I agree that our players are being overplayed, and some of our injuries are down to this. It's obvious that we have under invested in the forwards department. But I am not sure that the fault is simply that the owners don't care, or have refused to make the investments we need. As I've said before, I think this is more likely to be the result of over-rigidity in terms of acceptable transfer targets than simple greed. And I think that if not actively supported by our manager then he is still on board with the club's longer term strategy.

Hopefully Martinelli is OK - and we now have a break to try to get our players firing again.

I'm saying - IF the stories are true - Villa wanted to sell Watkins and Arteta wanted to buy him, despite knowing he'd lose Sesko. Obviously Arteta believed we were dangerously short up front and that couldn't be allowed to persist through the end of the season. That makes sense from a football point of view. It's not a guarantee of a title, it doesn't mean Watkins might not get injured in his first game for us, but for him to get the goals we'd need to overhaul Liverpool he has to to be playing here regardless of what else happens.

Non-football people decided the fee was too high, his age was wrong and the sell-on fee was a potential problem. So THEIR priorities are clearly paramount over and above football. It's about the finances with them, even when the requirements of the team are unequivocally clear. Is it unfair to say that? Business first then, which by definition is a lack of ambition in a sporting sense. This lot aren't going for what is possible, as you might get with a moderately wealthy owner trying to keep a lower league club in business, this lot have control of one of Europe's biggest clubs and they have clearly shown their hand in terms of priorities and intentions.

Did they spend 700mill? That's where I would like to see a real breakdown of Arsenal's finances rather than just spending figures. We sold a lot to finance that 700 mill too, and TV companies financed some of it and prize money from almost winning things. How much has been invested by the owners beyond their purchase of shares? I honestly don't know. If it's a lot, out of their own pockets, then okay, maybe it's harsh to say they have no interest. I suppose it takes something to part a billionaire with his money. But if it's little or nothing, and considering they've seen their wealth increase on paper at least, I'd ask what's it to them if we win or lose on the pitch provided we are winning on the balance sheet?

We are competing, money has been invested to stop us plunging down the table. But do you see any real evidence of a desire to go beyond this level? Surely the summer and this January are all the evidence anyone needs to see these owners have their focus elsewhere? Quick check on the P&L account, fly in for the big games, photoshoot and mural painted on stadium, hop the private jet back over the pond and leave the bums in the comfy offices to count the beans and ignore the manager. Certainly seems like this to me.

We aren't talking nice to haves, we're talking clear and present football requirement at a critical point of the season. I don't think there's any excusing this away. It's negligence, incompetence, you could even say it's a lack of duty. A serious clubs says, 60mill, for the finished article today, when we are desperately short, and still in the hunt for the PL and CL? Where do I sign? Do you want your arm back?

Our lot, well, we're worried about the sell-on fee. Come on now, am I being unreasonable or reaching conclusions by taking huge leaps?

[Niall_Quinn]

it is ofc possible we could catch Liverpool, but for me it is very unlikely, hence why in my own mind I'm not holding out any hope

looking at the last ten games both sides have won 6 and drawn 4 - and therein lies the problem, yes Liverpool aren't perfect but we simply have almost no chance of maintaining the type of level, especially with a squad that's dwindling by the minute, to chase them down

Agreed, Liverpool can still fuck up and probably will have a few slips on the way. But do you see the remains of this squad being able to capitalise? I suppose you could "see" it, it's technically possible. But taking into account everything you've experienced over the last couple of decades, nah, we'll slip up just as much, if not more. Particularly as we know Saka is gone for another month and Jesus is gone for the duration. We'll get White back, that's a plus. Tommy might come back, where did he go btw? In fact it's not as if we have an injury crisis, we can still field a strong team. We just don't have enough quality players, we've been left so desperately short there.

[Marc Overmars]

Liverpool’s next 5 games are:

Everton A
Wolves H
Villa A
City A
Newcastle H

If we haven’t clawed something back out of this then I’m not sure what crumbs would be left for us.

[Letters]

This is why I'm refusing to throw in the towel just yet. They've got a real fixture pile up coming and some tough games.
If they navigate all that or they do slip and we fail to capitalise then fair play, they'll run away with it. There's a lot of football to be played yet though.

[Mac76]

Liverpool’s next 5 games are:

Everton A
Wolves H
Villa A
City A
Newcastle H

If we haven’t clawed something back out of this then I’m not sure what crumbs would be left for us.

They're also still in all the cups so that's more games at some point

An injury to Salah is basically our only hope (but not vs Everton pls, I triple-captained him this week ;))

[IBK]

I'm saying - IF the stories are true - Villa wanted to sell Watkins and Arteta wanted to buy him, despite knowing he'd lose Sesko. Obviously Arteta believed we were dangerously short up front and that couldn't be allowed to persist through the end of the season. That makes sense from a football point of view. It's not a guarantee of a title, it doesn't mean Watkins might not get injured in his first game for us, but for him to get the goals we'd need to overhaul Liverpool he has to to be playing here regardless of what else happens.

Non-football people decided the fee was too high, his age was wrong and the sell-on fee was a potential problem. So THEIR priorities are clearly paramount over and above football. It's about the finances with them, even when the requirements of the team are unequivocally clear. Is it unfair to say that? Business first then, which by definition is a lack of ambition in a sporting sense. This lot aren't going for what is possible, as you might get with a moderately wealthy owner trying to keep a lower league club in business, this lot have control of one of Europe's biggest clubs and they have clearly shown their hand in terms of priorities and intentions.

Did they spend 700mill? That's where I would like to see a real breakdown of Arsenal's finances rather than just spending figures. We sold a lot to finance that 700 mill too, and TV companies financed some of it and prize money from almost winning things. How much has been invested by the owners beyond their purchase of shares? I honestly don't know. If it's a lot, out of their own pockets, then okay, maybe it's harsh to say they have no interest. I suppose it takes something to part a billionaire with his money. But if it's little or nothing, and considering they've seen their wealth increase on paper at least, I'd ask what's it to them if we win or lose on the pitch provided we are winning on the balance sheet?

We are competing, money has been invested to stop us plunging down the table. But do you see any real evidence of a desire to go beyond this level? Surely the summer and this January are all the evidence anyone needs to see these owners have their focus elsewhere? Quick check on the P&L account, fly in for the big games, photoshoot and mural painted on stadium, hop the private jet back over the pond and leave the bums in the comfy offices to count the beans and ignore the manager. Certainly seems like this to me.

We aren't talking nice to haves, we're talking clear and present football requirement at a critical point of the season. I don't think there's any excusing this away. It's negligence, incompetence, you could even say it's a lack of duty. A serious clubs says, 60mill, for the finished article today, when we are desperately short, and still in the hunt for the PL and CL? Where do I sign? Do you want your arm back?

Our lot, well, we're worried about the sell-on fee. Come on now, am I being unreasonable or reaching conclusions by taking huge leaps?

You know what? I'm done today putting the other side of the argument. Here's the case for the prosecution.

Arteta and the club have done a good job up to this season re-establishing us as potential title contenders. Anyone who thinks otherwise is IMO being unfair. But we supposedly had a 5 stage plan for success. I'm all for being sensible and trying to ensure long term foundations and a base for sustained prosperity, but there comes a tipping point where ambition needs to be questioned. We are at this place.

The sad truth is that we have never, in the past 20 years, been in as good a position to push on and win the league as we were coming into this season. We were like an athlete in second place at the end of a long distance final on the shoulder of the front runner - ready to push for a win off the back of the last bend. Almost everyone had us as champions elect. We had narrowed the gap on Citeh, had seasoned players and arguably the best defence in the league and players ready to come into their prime.

But we had also lived a charmed season in terms of injuries, and generally been surprised with the form of the likes of Havertz (an unconventional front man) and Trossard's eye for a goal. It was hubris to expect these conditions to continue uninterrupted. With the huge demands on players over a number of cometitions injuries are to be expected, and the simple fact is that the club failed to hedge against this risk.

It's madness for a team with aspirations in the league and the CL to have gone into the season with such a small and limited squad in the forward department. We were already short of title-winning quality in this department, but instead of bringing in a single player to elevate our level, we cleared out 4 forwards in the Summer and guaranteed that we would have to rely all season, over 4 comps, on Saka; Odegard; and Havertz. Even if you argue that there was Jesus and Sterling - there is no way you can maintain that these 2 players came anywhere close to raising our level. Jesus wouldn't have done so even if he had replicated his most effective season for us, and was a clear risk. Sterling was a panic last minute punt at best. We have to remember that back up players are not just injury replacements, they are there to enable a manager to rest players and step in when they inevitably lose form.

As pleased as we are with the progress of MLS and Nwaneri, there is no way this was really planned, and no way that a serious title contending team would place their fortunes on 17 and 18 year old rookies.

And the inevitable chickens have come home to roost. To use my althetics analogy we have hit the wall. It has become obvious that this team is vulnerable to loss of form, injuries and the inevitable process whereby other teams work us out. In the absence of a reliable goal scorer we resorted to set pieces that suddenly seem quite easy to score against. Teams like Newcastle (and even Brighton; Bournemouth; Fulham) have worked out how to nullify our attacking threat. It's almost embarrassing looking at how all the teams in the top half of the league have striking options that humble ours (we have only 2 players in the top 40 goal scorers - Havertz 12= on 9, and Martinelli 28= on 6.

Don't get me wrong, I am not pearl clutching like a little brat - I know we are second in the league - but we need to judge our team's performance by the standards of potential title winners, not also rans. Forget Liverpool (whom I suppose could be regarded as a surprise run away league leader), there is no way on earth that we could have expected Citeh to drop off the way they have, and our squad was not strong enough for us to be confident of overhauling them.

So spare me the tears about January, Arteta. You were as complicit as the club hierarchy in sending us into this season undercooked - and champions elect do not take the risks that we have done in trusting that good form and lack of injuries will continue unabated. We will finish top 4. But this will be a season when we threw away the chance for your project to reach fruition. Maybe Edu knew something after all.

[Mac76]

@ibk

:good: a really good post with which I almost entirely agree...




Don't get me wrong, I am not pearl clutching like a little b*tch

... apart from this bit here where, IMO, you let yourself down, especially for someone who normally appears so reaasonable and eloquent (unlike me :lol:) - is that abusive misogynistic stereotyping really necessary? does it really help you make your point? not for me :police: :)

[IBK]

@ibk

:good: a really good post with which I almost entirely agree...



... apart from this bit here where, IMO, you let yourself down, especially for someone who normally appears so reaasonable and eloquent (unlike me :lol:) - is that abusive misogynistic stereotyping really necessary? does it really help you make your point? not for me :police: :)

Changed it for you :cool: :good:

[Mac76]

Changed it for you :cool: :good:

:lol:

:good:

[Mac76]

and again your post really does nail it, while I do think we need to bear in mind the ludicrous anti-Arsenal nature of the refereeing, which without question has at a conservative estimate cost us anything from four points upwards, none of that excuses our consistent failure to strengthen the attack

The fact that we were interested in Isak 2-3 years ago but failed to go for it just sums it up - we were too busy buying trash like Zinchenko

[Niall_Quinn]

This is why I'm refusing to throw in the towel just yet. They've got a real fixture pile up coming and some tough games.
If they navigate all that or they do slip and we fail to capitalise then fair play, they'll run away with it. There's a lot of football to be played yet though.

This is why everyone saying the Costco cup, or whatever it's called, is of no significance have it perfectly wrong. It's of great significance, at least it is for this season. We just saw it with our own eyes. We go to an off form Newcastle needing two goals and we drag along our luggage for the beach trip. Newcastle cruise in second gear to the 2 goals we needed. Liverpool face the spuds needing two goals and they camp in their box for 90 minutes and smash them, without getting out of second gear.

Title run-in have twists and turns. The strongest, most committed and determined prevail and come out winners in the end.

Now, I ask you...

[Niall_Quinn]

@ibk

:good: a really good post with which I almost entirely agree...



... apart from this bit here where, IMO, you let yourself down, especially for someone who normally appears so reaasonable and eloquent (unlike me :lol:) - is that abusive misogynistic stereotyping really necessary? does it really help you make your point? not for me :police: :)

Trump's going to kick your arse dude.

[Mac76]

Trump's going to kick your arse dude.

I think he's kicking everyone's arses tbh, and now so is Starmer - what a tosser, can't even be an arsehole in an original way

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/feb/06/starmer-pledges-to-build-baby-build-as-green-groups-criticise-nuclear-plans

[Niall_Quinn]

You know what? I'm done today putting the other side of the argument. Here's the case for the prosecution.

Arteta and the club have done a good job up to this season re-establishing us as potential title contenders. Anyone who thinks otherwise is IMO being unfair. But we supposedly had a 5 stage plan for success. I'm all for being sensible and trying to ensure long term foundations and a base for sustained prosperity, but there comes a tipping point where ambition needs to be questioned. We are at this place.

The sad truth is that we have never, in the past 20 years, been in as good a position to push on and win the league as we were coming into this season. We were like an athlete in second place at the end of a long distance final on the shoulder of the front runner - ready to push for a win off the back of the last bend. Almost everyone had us as champions elect. We had narrowed the gap on Citeh, had seasoned players and arguably the best defence in the league and players ready to come into their prime.

But we had also lived a charmed season in terms of injuries, and generally been surprised with the form of the likes of Havertz (an unconventional front man) and Trossard's eye for a goal. It was hubris to expect these conditions to continue uninterrupted. With the huge demands on players over a number of cometitions injuries are to be expected, and the simple fact is that the club failed to hedge against this risk.

It's madness for a team with aspirations in the league and the CL to have gone into the season with such a small and limited squad in the forward department. We were already short of title-winning quality in this department, but instead of bringing in a single player to elevate our level, we cleared out 4 forwards in the Summer and guaranteed that we would have to rely all season, over 4 comps, on Saka; Odegard; and Havertz. Even if you argue that there was Jesus and Sterling - there is no way you can maintain that these 2 players came anywhere close to raising our level. Jesus wouldn't have done so even if he had replicated his most effective season for us, and was a clear risk. Sterling was a panic last minute punt at best. We have to remember that back up players are not just injury replacements, they are there to enable a manager to rest players and step in when they inevitably lose form.

As pleased as we are with the progress of MLS and Nwaneri, there is no way this was really planned, and no way that a serious title contending team would place their fortunes on 17 and 18 year old rookies.

And the inevitable chickens have come home to roost. To use my althetics analogy we have hit the wall. It has become obvious that this team is vulnerable to loss of form, injuries and the inevitable process whereby other teams work us out. In the absence of a reliable goal scorer we resorted to set pieces that suddenly seem quite easy to score against. Teams like Newcastle (and even Brighton; Bournemouth; Fulham) have worked out how to nullify our attacking threat. It's almost embarrassing looking at how all the teams in the top half of the league have striking options that humble ours (we have only 2 players in the top 40 goal scorers - Havertz 12= on 9, and Martinelli 28= on 6.

Don't get me wrong, I am not pearl clutching like a little brat - I know we are second in the league - but we need to judge our team's performance by the standards of potential title winners, not also rans. Forget Liverpool (whom I suppose could be regarded as a surprise run away league leader), there is no way on earth that we could have expected Citeh to drop off the way they have, and our squad was not strong enough for us to be confident of overhauling them.

So spare me the tears about January, Arteta. You were as complicit as the club hierarchy in sending us into this season undercooked - and champions elect do not take the risks that we have done in trusting that good form and lack of injuries will continue unabated. We will finish top 4. But this will be a season when we threw away the chance for your project to reach fruition. Maybe Edu knew something after all.

F1 analogy is better. Everyone turns up with 5 sets of soft tyres and 3 sets of hard. We turn up with 5 sets (maybe even 6 sets) of softs and one set of monsoon tyres. Race goes okay as we burn through the softs, apart from the odd puncture caused by Oliver throwing nails on the track, we come in for the final pit stop and - oh fuck!

It's worse because the FIA come along in the middle of the race and say we can change our tyre choices. Nah, we're good thanks!

True about Arteta, he might be pissed now but why did he come out and endorse these owners after that horrific summer window? He's lying in the bed he helped them make. And now he's getting fucked.

LIKE A BITCH!

[Niall_Quinn]

I think he's kicking everyone's arses tbh, and now so is Starmer - what a tosser, can't even be an arsehole in an original way

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/feb/06/starmer-pledges-to-build-baby-build-as-green-groups-criticise-nuclear-plans

Thanks fuck, finally! Way, way too late though. It's like us buying a striker in 2028 to see if we can win the title this year.

[Marc Overmars]

and again your post really does nail it, while I do think we need to bear in mind the ludicrous anti-Arsenal nature of the refereeing, which without question has at a conservative estimate cost us anything from four points upwards, none of that excuses our consistent failure to strengthen the attack

The fact that we were interested in Isak 2-3 years ago but failed to go for it just sums it up - we were too busy buying trash like Zinchenko

The thing is, Isak’s record in La Liga was average and I’m pretty sure we all would have questioned why we’ve spent 60m on a player who only scored something like 10 goals the season before Newcastle bought him. He was never an obvious signing like he is today.

I’m hoping we sign Sesko in the summer because on closer inspection he seems to have many strengths that would ensure he’s a success over here.

[Letters]

This is why everyone saying the Costco cup, or whatever it's called, is of no significance have it perfectly wrong. It's of great significance, at least it is for this season. We just saw it with our own eyes. We go to an off form Newcastle needing two goals and we drag along our luggage for the beach trip. Newcastle cruise in second gear to the 2 goals we needed. Liverpool face the spuds needing two goals and they camp in their box for 90 minutes and smash them, without getting out of second gear.

Title run-in have twists and turns. The strongest, most committed and determined prevail and come out winners in the end.

Now, I ask you...

As HCZ pointed out, we lost both semi-finals in 2003/4.
And we had that bloody disastrous week where we crashed out of both big cups.
Was that team not strong, committed and determined?

I don't think we're winning the league this year - although I refuse to give up just yet. But if we fail it won't be because we lost the league cup semi-final. It will be because of injuries, lack of squad depth and, the big one, lack of a clinical striker. Odegaard hits the post which would have made it 2-1, game on. Not long later Newcastle go 1-0 up and it's game over.

[Niall_Quinn]

As HCZ pointed out, we lost both semi-finals in 2003/4.
And we had that bloody disastrous week where we crashed out of both big cups.
Was that team not strong, committed and determined?

I don't think we're winning the league this year - although I refuse to give up just yet. But if we fail it won't be because we lost the league cup semi-final. It will be because of injuries, lack of squad depth and, the big one, lack of a clinical striker. Odegaard hits the post which would have made it 2-1, game on. Not long later Newcastle go 1-0 up and it's game over.

How is that relevant? Half the team were reserves, Bentley was playing instead of Henry, Ryan Smith instead of Pires, and that was the Juninho era at Middlesboro. We had Reyes, Bergkamp, Wiltord we could have brought in. Are you trying to compare that to our first team this season?

If anything, trying to use that season to compare with this has to be a joke, right? I think he was joking, not serious.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think he's kicking everyone's arses tbh, and now so is Starmer - what a tosser, can't even be an arsehole in an original way

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/feb/06/starmer-pledges-to-build-baby-build-as-green-groups-criticise-nuclear-plans


Except there’s absolutely no connection between the two things apart from in the minds of Guardian journalists and readers. Relying on burning hydrocarbons and actually finally stop being recalcitrant about using Nuclear power are two different things. The people who pin their flag to the mast of alternative only are either ignorant of the fact that it’s only remotely feasible about if we massively decrease our energy demands or they actually want that to be the case and think that because they are already affluent, the hardship will be borne by others. Same as the very privileged kids who demand we immediately cease with imports of new oil and gas….never mind how that would fuck the economy and by far have the most devastating impact on the worse off.
I’m not even against alternative energy, wind, solar, tidal….but anyone who has any grounding in energy/electricity industry can tell you that these are great auxiliary energy but shouldn’t be putting all our eggs in one basket.

Nuclear the main problem is (from a rational stand point and not the scaremongering) is you still have the same energy efficiency issues that you do with fossil fuels, that and we should have been investing in new power plants as well as putting more money into the fusion project long ago before now

[Niall_Quinn]

Except there’s absolutely no connection between the two things apart from in the minds of Guardian journalists and readers. Relying on burning hydrocarbons and actually finally stop being recalcitrant about using Nuclear power are two different things. The people who pin their flag to the mast of alternative only are either ignorant of the fact that it’s only remotely feasible about if we massively decrease our energy demands or they actually want that to be the case and think that because they are already affluent, the hardship will be borne by others. Same as the very privileged kids who demand we immediately cease with imports of new oil and gas….never mind how that would fuck the economy and by far have the most devastating impact on the worse off.
I’m not even against alternative energy, wind, solar, tidal….but anyone who has any grounding in energy/electricity industry can tell you that these are great auxiliary energy but shouldn’t be putting all our eggs in one basket.

Nuclear the main problem is (from a rational stand point and not the scaremongering) is you still have the same energy efficiency issues that you do with fossil fuels, that and we should have been investing in new power plants as well as putting more money into the fusion project long ago before now

There are incredible nuclear technologies that have been battling through development under furious fire from those who think we're busy rebuilding Chernobyl. If we'd invested in these 30 years ago all the oil and gas and alternative industries would be... oh shit. NUCLEAR SUCKS!

[HCZ_Reborn]

It’s easy to be wise with hindsight. But ultimately I’d argue even more than not signing a striker was selling off players to make our squad as thin as it was. Smith Rowe, Vieira, Nelson and dare I say it even Nketiah would have been some considerable use to us.

It feels like the only justification for selling them (I assumed that it was more about FSR compliance) was to create space in the squad for the likes of Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelly. Well frankly with the injuries we’ve had, actually likely those two would have come through anyway.

Nketiah I was as keen as anyone to get rid of him, but what can’t be denied is that he has an excellent cup record with goals and it would have avoided playing Havertz into the ground.