Winter Transfer Missed Opportunities and Regrets

[Niall_Quinn]

Still not the Currents thread is it?

ARTETA OUT!

[HCZ_Reborn]

There are incredible nuclear technologies that have been battling through development under furious fire from those who think we're busy rebuilding Chernobyl. If we'd invested in these 30 years ago all the oil and gas and alternative industries would be... oh shit. NUCLEAR SUCKS!

And whilst 2019 Chernobyl series was a dramatisation, anyone who knows anything about Chernobyl agrees that it got right the issue. Which wasn’t the inherent dangers of nuclear energy, or even individual human error. It was about trying to do things on the cheap to the point where the fail safes end up being the cause of a major disaster.

There are risks, with many nuclear plants you do need access to water and with Fukushima the problem is, it’s in a country which is prone to heavy seismic activity which brought about the tsunami. But as opposed to Chernobyl it was actually the efficiency of those working there that made sure things weren’t worse than they were, and Japan is looking to reboot its nuclear program.

Germany is the worst culprit, its naysaying has made it reliant on Russian energy yet its neighbour in France has proved that you can have an efficient Nuclear powered energy network

[HCZ_Reborn]

Still not the Currents thread is it?

ARTETA OUT!

Yeah that’s my bad. I’m not great at compartmentalising my trains of thought

[Niall_Quinn]

It’s easy to be wise with hindsight. But ultimately I’d argue even more than not signing a striker was selling off players to make our squad as thin as it was. Smith Rowe, Vieira, Nelson and dare I say it even Nketiah would have been some considerable use to us.

It feels like the only justification for selling them (I assumed that it was more about FSR compliance) was to create space in the squad for the likes of Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelly. Well frankly with the injuries we’ve had, actually likely those two would have come through anyway.

Nketiah I was as keen as anyone to get rid of him, but what can’t be denied is that he has an excellent cup record with goals and it would have avoided playing Havertz into the ground.

Yeah, it's been great news to see the youngsters come through - so far. But if that was the strategy then I wonder why we've also been dumping young talent on Utd? I know we didn't want to get rid of them, but we didn't do what was necessary to keep them either. It's a shame because chances are those players go nowhere with Utd.

Even so, if Arteta told us in the summer we were relying on youth and chucking them in to go up against a city team we'd closed the gap to 2 points on? I don't think that would have gone down so well. So many young players have come through and had their chance and they are all elsewhere now, doing not so much bar the odd exception. It's the nature of the game, you can never really know until you try over a protracted period.

If that's the policy then it still feeds into the idea we're not prepared to spend or are incapable of it.

Has anyone else seen these rumours we're thinking of dumping 300mill into a stadium expansion? If there's any truth in that we've probably just seen the end of our "Almost Won Something" era under Arteta.

[Mac76]

There are incredible nuclear technologies that have been battling through development under furious fire from those who think we're busy rebuilding Chernobyl. If we'd invested in these 30 years ago all the oil and gas and alternative industries would be... oh shit. NUCLEAR SUCKS!

I'm not a fan of Nuclear tbh but it was more the Trumpish language i objected to, can't he come out with some original BS instead of someone else's - first Mandy putting his head up Trump's arse and now that

These guys were right then and they're right now


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dw_aj68Gqg

[Mac76]

Yeah, it's been great news to see the youngsters come through - so far. But if that was the strategy then I wonder why we've also been dumping young talent on Utd?

Arteta's only ever brought younger players through when forced to through injuries and absences, while he gave chances to Nwaneri, MLS and Nicholls in pre-season, he underplayed Nwaneri when Ode was out and MLS only came in when others were injured, plus as you say there's players we let go which is making us look silly now.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm not a fan of Nuclear tbh but it was more the Trumpish language i objected to, can't he come out with some original BS instead of someone else's - first Mandy putting his head up Trump's arse and now that

These guys were right then and they're right now


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dw_aj68Gqg

We are culturally closer to America than arguably any other country in the world. The so called special relationship does tend to be embarrassingly one-sided but it’s the country within the Anglosphere with the biggest population, most money and most global influence so does kind of make sense. And whilst we don’t have a trade deal with them, we are very good at importing their nonsense from the sociological idiocy like critical race theory, gender politics and stuff like that to the unfiltered crap that Trump comes out with (although drill baby drill is a pre Trump thing, Bush and McCain have used it on their political platforms)

Starmer is ultimately someone who in many ways is far from the ideal person to be prime minister at the moment, and that’s because he lacks imagination. Labour would be far better off trying to sell a reworking of post 1945 or American New Deal politics…..big projects with infrastructure building new transport hubs, creating a new energy network (it’s kind of doing that, but not in a substantive way) as well as replenishing front line services (more doctors, more nurses, more police, more prisons) as well as exploring creative ways of dealing with social care and health.


Starmer is not a big ideas man

[HCZ_Reborn]

Liberal/Left parties also need to get a jump on right wing parties by getting a grasp not just on immigration but sectarianism by reaffirming liberal values. Why the fuck for instance are GMP arresting a guy for racially motivated offence for attempting to burn his own copy of the Quran. We do not have blasphemy laws in this country and nor should we ever have, and it’s depressingly obvious why police do this. It’s because they are scared of the reaction of Pavlovian dogs who have been inculcated to behave like atavistic barbarians whenever any slight is perceived against Islam.

It helps no one to enable this behaviour and comply with the belief that these people have that UK law should protect their right not to be offended. It also clearly doesn’t help the Muslims who don’t behave like this and want to just get on with their lives. If we stop pretending that it’s racist to say that there are numerous aspects of Islam that are entirely incompatible with liberal western values, and that burning your own copy of the Quran, showing images of Mohammed etc aren’t equivalent to taking a dump in a mosque or singling out Muslims for assault or abuse.

Of course it would be more complicated than that, we’d need to identify the Saudi Arabia funding of Wahhabist doctrine as well as its funding of Western Universities to promote the idea that criticism of the faith is this nonsense term “Islamophobia”

It would do a good job of filtering out people who do not want the tentacles of an illiberal doctrine to bury itself in Britain and those who simply want to promote racial division.

[Letters]

How is that relevant? Half the team were reserves, Bentley was playing instead of Henry, Ryan Smith instead of Pires, and that was the Juninho era at Middlesboro. We had Reyes, Bergkamp, Wiltord we could have brought in. Are you trying to compare that to our first team this season?

If anything, trying to use that season to compare with this has to be a joke, right? I think he was joking, not serious.

Fair point about the league cup, but we had the full team out in the FA Cup and CL when we crashed out of those, it didn't stop us winning the league (although I'll admit I feared for us when we were behind against Liverpool). I guess my overall point is if we fail to win the league then it won't be because we went out of the league cup semi-final. It'll be the lack of a striker and squad depth.

[Niall_Quinn]

So should we have signed somebody of not? Sign Starmer and play him on the right wing, or just send him to Rwanda on a free.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fair point about the league cup, but we had the full team out in the FA Cup and CL when we crashed out of those, it didn't stop us winning the league (although I'll admit I feared for us when we were behind against Liverpool). I guess my overall point is if we fail to win the league then it won't be because we went out of the league cup semi-final. It'll be the lack of a striker and squad depth.

Hold on, who said we lost the title because we went out of the league cup? That's stripping away every context and leaving just the bare frame. The argument is the attitude we just saw in the transfer window and now the semi final is instructive. It's not as if we lost the semi, it's we didn't turn up. Then we watch Liverpool in the same competition smash it. People who say this doesn't matter, that momentum is irrelevant, that the attitude you take into games can be selective - are clutching at straws, especially as we have been here multiple times before.

Now you can add in the ludicrous state of the squad, pile it on top. Yeah, the squad is a joke, but that doesn't forgive the terrible attitude of the club and then the team following on from that 5-1 - what did we used to call it? FALSE DAWN.

[Letters]

Saka will be like a new signing :sulk:

[Niall_Quinn]

Saka will be like a new signing :sulk:

Yeah like a new signing for some other club if we don't start making at least a semi-convincing attempt to win something.

[Niall_Quinn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID3AV8cw4_o


Gabriel Martinelli
Martinelli limped off the pitch during Arsenal's clash against Newcastle in the second leg of the Carabao Cup semi-final on Wednesday night. The 23-year-old winger, who appeared to suffer a hamstring injury, was replaced by Ethan Nwaneri.

What Arteta has said: "Yes, he felt something. I think it was his hamstring and he wasn't comfortable to continue so we'll have to do an MRI scan tomorrow to see the extent of the injury."

Expected return date: Unknown.

Ben White
White has been sidelined with a knee injury since November. The 27-year-old defender, who underwent surgery, had been suffering from a joint problem before that and he's yet to return to the first team.

What Arteta has said: "No news from the game against City and Ben is still out, hopefully after the break he will be available."

Expected return date: February 2025.

Bukayo Saka
Saka suffered a hamstring injury against Crystal Palace in December. The 23-year-old winger, who also had to undergo surgery, has been spotted at several Arsenal games at the Emirates Stadium recently. He all smiles when the Gunners defeated Manchester City on Sunday night.

What Arteta has said: "We don’t know how long he is out and how many games he can play. I don't know [when Saka will return]."

Expected return date: March 2025.

Takehiro Tomiyasu
Tomiyasu remains out of action with a knee injury. The 26-year-old defender missed the large majority of last season with a calf problem and he's played just six minutes this term.

What Arteta has said: "Tomiyasu is going to be out as well for a period."

Expected return date: Unknown.

Gabriel Jesus
Jesus suffered an ACL injury in the FA Cup defeat to Manchester United last month. The 27-year-old striker has had surgery on his left knee and now faces a lengthy spell on the sidelines.

What Arteta has said: "Not looking good at all. But we need to review with the specialist and will have more information this afternoon. I don't want to confirm anything until we have the final report this afternoon. We were very worried straight after the game and we are very worried today."

Expected return date: Summer 2025.

EDIT: Martinelli out for a month.

[Chippy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID3AV8cw4_o



EDIT: Martinelli out for a month.

Oh no! At least we got a striker in before.....oh, hang on!

[Niall_Quinn]

What about Mbeumo and Semenyo? Are they still out of contract? Can we get them in as bodies before we run out of players entirely? They'd take a few quid to provide a bit of cover wouldn't they?

It's impossible to think we can get through the remainder of the season without somebody. Unless the plan is to call in the reserves and literally go for the PL and CL with the reserve team.

[dazthegooner]

We could always call up Max Dowman though they would have to make sure he's done his homework first...

[Niall_Quinn]

Nah, they both signed contracts. Diego Costa is available, we could always ring the pasta place and see if he's up for a runout?

[Niall_Quinn]

We could always call up Max Dowman though they would have to make sure he's done his homework first...

Do we really want him to play his first season in the treatment room? Could affect his confidence.

[Niall_Quinn]

I can play on Wednesdays? Can anyone cover the weekend slots?

[Niall_Quinn]

Watkins injured and misses at least the next game.

He was PERFECT for us!

Of course he wouldn't have played in the game where he picked up the injury if we had signed him.

[Niall_Quinn]

Could the Kroenke's have deliberately sabotaged the season? Sounds mad, but say we had behaved in a sane manner in the two transfer windows. Say we had gone on to win something. That would then be the new standard, wouldn't it? Did us finishing within 2 points of city last year make them shit their pants and hide their wallets?

Crazy theory, but not nearly as crazy as not signing cover in January.

[dazthegooner]

Do we really want him to play his first season in the treatment room? Could affect his confidence.

Well as he's under 18 that is probably where you would find MLS and Nwaneri before matches :unsure:

[Niall_Quinn]

Well as he's under 18 that is probably where you would find MLS and Nwaneri before matches :unsure:

I know it's tongue in cheek (but you never know with Arsenal). You can't bring a literal kid in who is still developing physically. But there's a wide player who is probably around the same age as Nwaneri and used to link up well with him. I hope he's not the guy we let Utd grab. He might have to be the option if Sterling stinks the place out.

Sterling though. This is pure desperation and a long way from a gamble. At least with gambling you have a chance, no matter how slim.

And I'm guessing Oyedeji will be seeing game time rather than the odd visit to the bench.

[Niall_Quinn]

Delving deeper down the conspiracy hole.

What if these cunts are looking forward to a big Saliba pay-day? To fund the summer spectacular without having to actually spend? Showing him this perfect lack of ambition would help with that a lot.

And if we do bring in reserves, now out of necessity, and if they play well, what of they suddenly become like a new signing?

WHAT IF the plan is to make a profit in the summer window?

[dazthegooner]

Delving deeper down the conspiracy hole.

What if these cunts are looking forward to a big Saliba pay-day? To fund the summer spectacular without having to actually spend? Showing him this perfect lack of ambition would help with that a lot.

And if we do bring in reserves, now out of necessity, and if they play well, what of they suddenly become like a new signing?

WHAT IF the plan is to make a profit in the summer window?

If this isn't in the Kroenke's plan we better hope they don't secretly look on here for idea's :yikes:

[Niall_Quinn]

Fuck - mods can you please delete all my posts?

[Marc Overmars]

I have no doubt that Saliba is being courted and possibly some other players of ours will be too. It is inevitable if you don’t win anything that your best players will be picked off. We’ve seen this movie before.

[Chippy]

Fuck - mods can you please delete all my posts?

:lol:

[Chippy]

I have no doubt that Saliba is being courted and possibly some other players of ours will be too. It is inevitable if you don’t win anything that your best players will be picked off. We’ve seen this movie before.

It wouldn't bother me too much if Saliba left for a big price. Gabby is the better of the two imho.

[Niall_Quinn]

It wouldn't bother me too much if Saliba left for a big price. Gabby is the better of the two imho.

But we need two CBs, don't we? Even if that means just the two and not one more, given the new recruitment policies.

[Niall_Quinn]

Which makes me wonder about Calafiore. Isn't he a CB?

Is this the summer? Saliba out and Sesko in?

[dazthegooner]

Calafiore is a CB but Arteta likes a right/left footed combination at CB, how much do you think we'd get for Saliba isn't he still only 23? if so should be at least £120m (it is Madrid so try and rinse as much a we can might get another Barca)

[Niall_Quinn]

Trouble with selling Saliba is it means waiting until the Kroenkes leave before we seriously try to grab top spot in England and compete with genuine intent in the CL. That could be a long time.

Selling Saliba means it's all over for the club for the foreseeable future, not because Saliba can't be replaced but because he won't be.

[Mac76]

It wouldn't bother me too much if Saliba left for a big price. Gabby is the better of the two imho.

The point is they work extermely well as a partnership and also Saliba is geniunely world class, he's only 22 or something so can only get better, selling him would be an act of insanity

that said as others point out we do need to show him we can win stuff or he might get restless

[Mac76]

Trouble with selling Saliba is it means waiting until the Kroenkes leave before we seriously try to grab top spot in England and compete with genuine intent in the CL. That could be a long time.

Selling Saliba means it's all over for the club for the foreseeable future, not because Saliba can't be replaced but because he won't be.

Thing is I blame the Kroenkes much less than Arteta - you don't spend £105m on a player unless you're prepared to back the c lub, but thay don't understand football so are heavily guided by Arteta's judgement, and his judgement when it comes to prioritising signings to strengthen our attack is seriously flawed

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't see how one of England's top clubs paying the going rate for urgently required players is some special level of commitment as opposed to the reality of the game if you are serious about competing - which is not necessarily the same as being serious about winning.

According to Transfermarkt Pep has spent 1.2 bill building his city squad from the pile of crap he inherited. Klopp spent 800 mill which is why Slot has had the luxury of putting his feet up in the transfer windows. Like Pep, we had to get rid of shite like Luiz, Mustafi and extraordinary waste like Pepe and replace them with actual footballers like Gabby, Odegard and Rice. Failure to do that would have seen us heading back down the table, we've seen this with Utd and the spuds, we've seen what happens if you fail to do at least the bare minimum.

We've spent around 590 mill since Arteta arrived, not the 700 mill being touted. It's a lot of money, but not as much as the club we finished a couple of points behind last season. And not as much as the club we finished above. Seems to me Arteta has made more of what he's had than most. Whether you believe the Kroenke's have been instrumental or not, we've definitely improved under Arteta. The discussion now is whether we can go the final mile and win something more than the minor cups. It took city at least half a billion more in spending to achieve what we are chasing.

We'll see though, won't we? There's a reason fans are now talking about 200 mill plus being required in the summer, because that's what's required, in today's market, to bring in the top talent required to compete at the top level. If it happens then okay, maybe it couldn't happen sooner for reasons we don't know about but at least it happens eventually. If we don't spend what is required then it's be just as easy to conclude the Kroenke's are here to keep the cash cow eating well enough to keep the milk flowing. If the latter is true then there aren't any managers out there who could do anything about that. Do you think Pep could have delivered with half his budget chopped?

It's not just the spending, it's the statement of intent. The top players will want to come to teams that can fulfil their personal ambitions, they won't want to go and keep time waiting for something that, by design, will never arrive. And players already at the club will look elsewhere as their career paths shorten.

But none of that has a bearing on the other issue that can't be reasoned away. We are short of players this season, not short of talent but short of actual bodies. Injuries, bad decisions in the summer, all required emergency measures to be taken in January and nothing was done. There's no excuse for that, at least no acceptable excuse. It's pure negligence. Arteta has said he wanted a striker, maybe true, maybe not. If it was his decision not to bring somebody in the absolutely, it's a massive mistake that has already been exposed. But if it really was the Kroenke's fucking around with sell-on fees then I don't see what Arteta or any manager can do. You ask the board for the players you need and the board then does what it does best, shoots of an insultingly low bid designed to scupper the deal. Now I'm hearing we actually offered £32 mill, £17 mill of which was to be paid next year. That could be just more of the hot air floating around the net but it's not like we don't have a long track record of shit like this.

Regardless, whether guilty or not, Arteta has a shitstorm on his hands now. If he made his bed he'll sure be lying in it if we collapse out of all the competitions in a week, like we often do. Trouble is, if we by some miracle won something it would be vindication of the stupidity that occurred during January, and stupidity is stupidity even when you get rewarded for it.

[Mac76]

The discussion now is whether we can go the final mile and win something more than the minor cups.

Which we're not even doing rn

[IBK]

OK first I want to offer a few more thoughts on our forwards debacle.

Over the weekend, I actually found myself feeling a bit embarrassed when discussing football with friends who are fans of other clubs. Or if that word is too strong, almost apologist. We can debate the reasons for where we find ourselves, but 2 things are true from the perspective of the wider footballing world. Firstly, noone thinks we will win the league now. Secondly, the feeling is that we have brought this upon ourselves as a football club. We might wonder why we are still (relative to our title aspirations) regarded as a bit small time. Not serious about success. Well our lack of a top class striker - even before the season started - sums it up. Even as we were improving and becoming a team in the conversation for honours, Arteta is regarded as having built a team whose principal aim is not to lose, rather than built to take the game to the opposition. It's really difficult to think of a title winning team that do not have a striker who can be relied upon to score 20 goals a season - or if not in numbers - be a true game changer. I commented above that we do not compare in terms of striker talent with any of the teams in the top half of the EPL, and maybe even lower than this. I recall that Pep's Citeh were regarded as having no recognised striker at one stage, but his supporting forward cast was deeper and better than ours - particularly without Saka.

I even wonder whether the 'anti' Arsenal sentiment that we have seen more generally has as much to do with an inherent lack of respect for a team still seen as also rans rather than anything else. It's difficult for fans to 'respect' a team that aspires to silverware but seems timid when it comes to trying to make this happen via player acqusitions.

Even our supposed prime targets seem a bit underwhelming in this context. Like I've said elsewhere, I am generally supportive of pursuing a coherent and planned strategy to raise the level rather than a reactive and scattergun approach. If the realistic plan had been to take the risk of not signing a credible forward in the Summer, or even January, to land an Isaak this Summer (with the huge fee that would command) that would be one thing. But was this a risk worth taking for Cesko - himself a bit of a punt - not top top level...or Nico Williams - bang average Gs and As even in his best seasons in Spain? We are a massive club - currently the 7th richest in the world and 3rd in the EPL. Do our transfer ambitions reflect this?

IMHO aside from what I will kindly describe as over caution in building a self-sustainable model (that I suppose offers a measure of mitigation in some ways), what we are seeing at Arsenal is a degree of incompetence/negligence in our transfer business. I think that last Summer the club placed an over reliance on Arteta's ability to (as NQ says) make more of his resources than most, and took unjustified risks in thinking that our existing players would retain form and fitness. A lack of ability to flex and get business done when the (inevitable) circumstances demanded it will cost us a golden opportunity to win the league, and makes our CL title aspirations seem like a bit of a pipe dream. This is not what champions do, and I think we are seeing a problem at our club at executive level illustrated by Edu's departure - the apparent lack of a plan to replace our sporting director does not bode well, and if January was Jason Ayto's audition, he has truly fluffed his lines.

Where I depart from NQ's thoughts (that may be valid - I'm not dismissing them) is in seeing our problems as down to the owners. First, it is illogical to me that the Kroenkes - winners of 6 US sporting championships and reportedly increasing their weath by £2.5 billon over the past 12 months - would deliberately withhold funds from an Arsenal project clearly (before this season at least) going in the right direction and in with a good shout of winning the league. It makes little business sense - given the income and profile that Arsenal winning the league would achieve. Secondly, Arsenal's net spend under Arteta - even if this is circa £500M - is significant and sees us third in the league over this period. This is inconsistent with funds being denied to Areta. IMO we do not spend £105M on Declan Rice if the owners' ambitions are top 4 only.

I think it's more likely that (with some justification prior to this season), the owners have trusted the club to make the acquisitions it feels are needed. I think there is a fairly fundamental issue at club management level more than in finances level, and I do wonder again what the real reason for Edu's departure was...

[Mac76]

I think we are seeing a problem at our club at executive level illustrated by Edu's departure - the apparent lack of a plan to replace our sporting director does not bode well, and if January was Jason Ayto's audition, he has truly fluffed his lines.

I think it's more likely that (with some justification prior to this season), the owners have trusted the club to make the acquisitions it feels are needed. I think there is a fairly fundamental issue at club management level more than in finances level, and I do wonder again what the real reason for Edu's departure was...

@IBK - agreed on all that, not least these two bits above, I'm concerned about the Edu departure too, I posted on here at the time about how he said something about not agreeing with the direction the club was going in: https://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=312&p=4596986&viewfull=1#post4596986

It's possible it was to do with Arteta's being obssessed with defensive players and Edu knew they needed more up front - I said at the time he was maybe a bit weak but I'm starting to think he's a real loss

[HCZ_Reborn]

So, I suppose the question is did KSE explicitly stop Arteta from signing an attacker in the summer and the answer to that question is No. I think there may have been discussion about how much an attacker might have unbalanced the wage bill but there was definitely no veto there. However I think where their responsibility lies is that it was probably not a unilateral decision on Arteta’s part to approach the summer the way we did, it was most likely agreed to take the risk on the players that had scored 90 + league goals last season, and it was believed that if injuries were going to happen it would be defensive or in midfield. There’s no proof of this, it’s speculative but it feels to me anyway a reasonable explanation.

As to Edu, we have heard that he objected to the signings of Merino and Calafiori, now was this an objection to those players in particular or to the positions we were strengthening. The answer is of course that we don’t know. Personally I wouldn’t be too quick to cast Edu in the role of a man who left the club in principled opposition to the types of players we were signing. The summer was but one transfer window amongst many where we left ourselves too short in attacking options (and unless we are saying he was always superseded by Arteta and last summer was the final straw, well he is just as responsible as Arteta in my view)

Edu the only real way to look at his departure is someone left presumably for more money, for more responsibility.

I don’t think in the grand scheme of things his departure is that much of a problem nor do I attribute his absence to our lack of signings in January.

I think January simply came down to not feeling like we could get the kind of player we wanted for the long term in that window, and not being able to do a deal to bring someone in on loan.

I think there’s clearly a conclusion that is reasonable to draw that Arteta does not place the same premium on attacking players that he puts on defensive players. But in some ways that’s a reflection of the direction football has taken, 25 years ago it was the standard for clubs to play two up front….now we have a lone man or an interchangeable front three where the traditional striker doesn’t exist.

That a club like Man City went around two years without a recognised striker is instructive. It doesn’t excuse what we haven’t done, but it does sum up the overall priorities in football currently.

[HCZ_Reborn]

However the fact is that Arsenal is not a PLC anymore, anything we speculate about will remain speculation because KSE does not feel it owes us an explanation. The most important thing for them was our continued appearance in the champions league for the club to be an appreciable asset. Because that objective is being met, it may not be a case of saying that’s all the money you get but it’s more likely a case of not going to rock the boat when its own objectives are being met.

Arteta has put a target on his own head by saying we are short in the attacking positions, short of a miraculous upsurge in goals from the attacking players we do have remaining to us….whatever his positional priorities…I don’t think you’ll have the same army of Zombified fans saying “trust the process” if this upcoming summer goes the same way the last one does.

It will be a difficult one, because clubs will know we have money and not only that we’ve got to make sure we are able to fend off overtures for Saliba from Real Madrid. It’s not just a case of rejecting their offers, it’s how the player himself decides to behave.

[IBK]

I find your OP (first post above) a bit curious, and I think that this is because of the way it is framed. Owners are unlikely to 'explicitly' stop managers from signing players. They may or may not agree to make additional funds available, and I think it is unlikely that the Kroenkes simply refused to do so. If we accept this, then you are suggesting that they were actively complicit in the decision to take the risks that we did - in that they were an active part of this decision making process. I find this also unlikely, given what we know of our owners. It's far more likely IMO that the Kroenkes simply accepted the position adopted by the manager and the executive (by which I mean active drivers such as the manager; Tim Lewis and Jason Ayto). This would be pretty normal at most football clubs - certainly one with pretty absentee owners like ours. It would be extraordinary for owners like the Kroenkes to actively insist on player acquisions, and neither do I think that they would refuse to fund purchases deemed crucial by the manager and the executive.


So we come to the executive. Managers and coaches generally favour signings without considering finances (and so they should), and by all accounts Arteta (who is both) has a good deal of sway at the club. As far as the Summer goes, I think that it is more likely than not that Arteta had limited striker targets and when those were not possible he (with his natural bias to MF/defensive players that you highlight - not to mention an obsession with multitool capabilities) ultimately decided that he would stick with what we have rather than spend money elsewhere. I think that his much reported views on player fatigue may go some way to explaining the club's decision to take this risk.


I am not sure that I would go as far as to call Edu's departure the result of 'principled opposition', but neither do I think it's far fetched to attribute his parting of ways with the club to disagreement over where the emphasis should be. Further, it has been suggested in some quarters (and this is by no means implausible) that Edu had become disenchanted with a tilting of executive decision making and strategy re the team towards Arteta, when previously their input had been more evenly matched. If this is the case - and l do think there may be truth in this - then I think this situation is a concern. We need only look at late Wenger to see what can happen when unchecked decision making is left to a manager.


I feel also that you underplay Edu's 'schmoozing' ability and contacts. One example of this is that Arsenal scouted and reportedly discussed a potential transfer move for (now Citeh's) Vitor Reis ahead of this January. Reis is regarded in many quarters as the next potential Saliba, and given what we have known for some time about RM's interest in Saliba, this is precisely the kind of longer term 'hedge' that might have suited Arsenal in this difficult potential situation. It is by no means implausibe to think that Edu might have made the difference here. Edu is known for his charm and persuasiveness when it comes to transfer targets, and the evidence suggests that the club is lacking this since his departure.


I am not saying that Edu got everything right, but over recent years him and Arteta seemed to make a good team - much like Dein and Wenger. I cannot definitively counter your underplaying of Edu's role, but I am saying that one of the foundations of a successful club is balance, construtive questioning and a mix of talents at board level, and I think you abandon this at your peril. This January is hardly an endorsement of the effectiveness and organisiation of the executive at Arsenal post Edu, and I have concerns about the circumstances that led to his departure just as, we thought, the 5 stage plan was going to come to fruition.


I agree with you about the difficulties we now have when approaching transfers given our lamentable lack of squad strength up front. Perhaps more worryingly when it comes to trying to keep our best players I have real doubts as to whether the club has the direction and bravery required to navigate this. For example if Saliba is not ready to commit to a new contract then a club run with the efficiency of say Bournemouth; Brighton or Brentford would already have a plan for accepting the inevitable and ensuring that it maximises the transfer fee and spends this to mitigate the damage. It would take bravery; planning and the efficiency to ensure that a suitable replacement was brought in. Our forward debacle does not suggest that these attributes are particularly present at our club. Neither does the fact that after 3 months there is no indication that a 'top' sporting director's arrival is imminent.

[Niall_Quinn]

@IBK - agreed on all that, not least these two bits above, I'm concerned about the Edu departure too, I posted on here at the time about how he said something about not agreeing with the direction the club was going in: https://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=312&p=4596986&viewfull=1#post4596986

It's possible it was to do with Arteta's being obssessed with defensive players and Edu knew they needed more up front - I said at the time he was maybe a bit weak but I'm starting to think he's a real loss

Much more likely, given what we can measure in hindsight, he was concerned about the screeching 180 degree that saw us go from a club making investments on the pitch to a club pinching pennies to the point of negligence.

[IBK]

Much more likely, given what we can measure in hindsight, he was concerned about the screeching 180 degree that saw us go from a club making investments on the pitch to a club pinching pennies to the point of negligence.

Like I say, I disagree with you if you are arguing that it's the owners penny pinching. In their US teams, they have shown a will to spend money to win things. I think the Kroenkes are wedded to Arteta, and if he had given them an ultimatum and insisted on funds being made available for a striker in Jan they would have backed him. IMO the owners refusing to spend is the least likely explanation for the situation we find ourselves in.

Arteta has been backed in building a defence and MF with depth. It doesn't make sense that the under investment further up the pitch is owner led. Instead it points squarely at this not having been a real priority for the manager - or at least being something that he was happy to delay addressing - for whatever reason. That's why I have little sympathy with Arteta bleating over the past couple of weeks that he needs a striker. IMO he - and the active executive made this bed.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Where I disagree is that KSE make no input into transfer matters. Just as we need their blessing when we do want to make a big signing, my understanding is that transfer strategy in general is discussed with them through Josh Kroenke. And if they simply green lighted the decision made by Arteta and others at the club to go forward with what we had up front, then as owners they do take some responsibility for this.
Frankly even if Arteta decided this unilaterally without consulting anyone they would take responsibility, it is their club after all and he is just an employee.

[IBK]

Where I disagree is that KSE make no input into transfer matters. Just as we need their blessing when we do want to make a big signing, my understanding is that transfer strategy in general is discussed with them through Josh Kroenke. And if they simply green lighted the decision made by Arteta and others at the club to go forward with what we had up front, then as owners they do take some responsibility for this.
Frankly even if Arteta decided this unilaterally without consulting anyone they would take responsibility, it is their club after all and he is just an employee.

I have not said that KSE have no input. Anyone holding purse strings has an input, and of course transfer strategy will be discussed with them via Josh Kroenke for this reason.

But we are not talking about consultation here. We are looking at who is responsible for a transfer strategy that has left us so short. The Kroenkes are not football people, and will inevitably be led by those at the club who are, those who are charged with day to day oversight. Are they part of any decision making process? Of course. They are the club's owners. But they are far more likely to be people who (as you say) rubber stamp our strategy (trusting the active executive) than direct it. I think that it's far fetched to expect KSE, in our circumstances, to demand we acquire players if they are told that we should wait to achieve long term targets. And as such I think their 'responsibility' for our current situation is diminished, rather than them refusing to fund purchases and therefore being the primary reason for this.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I feel like we’ve had this dance a few times where we don’t know whether the owners or the coach is primarily responsible for lack of spending, and this was before anyone had even heard of Kroenke. I think in many respects the gamble we took is not that much different to the gamble Liverpool took and the gamble City have taken. If there is a difference it’s that we as a club decided to thin out the squad. Smith Rowe, Nketiah, Vieira and Nelson probably would have been quite helpful to have in terms of them playing the cup games and some of the champions league home games so that players like Havertz and Martinelli weren’t playing constantly.

If you want a particular type of striker and want to wait until you can get that person that’s one thing, making it so there’s no sufficient backup for who you have is another matter entirely.


Ultimately though I’m 41, and at almost no time has it ever felt the club has done sufficient business in the transfer market. This encompasses for me George Graham, Rioch, Wenger, Emery and Arteta.

[IBK]

I feel like we’ve had this dance a few times where we don’t know whether the owners or the coach is primarily responsible for lack of spending, and this was before anyone had even heard of Kroenke. I think in many respects the gamble we took is not that much different to the gamble Liverpool took and the gamble City have taken. If there is a difference it’s that we as a club decided to thin out the squad. Smith Rowe, Nketiah, Vieira and Nelson probably would have been quite helpful to have in terms of them playing the cup games and some of the champions league home games so that players like Havertz and Martinelli weren’t playing constantly.

If you want a particular type of striker and want to wait until you can get that person that’s one thing, making it so there’s no sufficient backup for who you have is another matter entirely.


Ultimately though I’m 41, and at almost no time has it ever felt the club has done sufficient business in the transfer market. This encompasses for me George Graham, Rioch, Wenger, Emery and Arteta.

We don't, know, but I guess its somenting to debate when there's little else around...

I actually agree with you re other club's gambling...and our biggest problem being increasing ours by having a player clearout last Summer.

Given that Ornstein now says Havertz is out for the season, we are now completely screwed in any case...

[Niall_Quinn]

The asking price for Watkins was 60 mill. Josh doesn't have to deny the manager anything, he can sanction a bid between 32 mill and 45 mill (depending on who you listen to) and scupper the deal right there. He's not telling the manager no, in fact he's doing what the manager wants but, Oh dear! - Villa wanted more than we're prepared to pay. Which isn't automatically bad, because say Villa asked for 200mill then of course we don't entertain it. Given recent developments, 60 mill for a proven striker that could hit the ground in his first match and be out out for the rest of the season? STILL WORTH IT! Because maybe he wouldn't have been injured, maybe he'd instead score the goals we need to hand on to Liverpool's tail and maybe scare a few of the bigger clubs in the CL. But he could ONLY do that by being at the club. And he's not, because they wouldn't make a serious offer.

A sensible owner looks at the summer then looks at the squad and then looks at the table. Within reason he gives the manager what he needs to address the emergency situation that has developed. Tried and tested striker, 60 mill, he'll also do a job next season and maybe the one after that? Okay, we won't get a big sell-on fee, but we need him now - it's an emergency not a leisurely round of fantasy football. And if we progress in the CL we immediately start clawing back some of that expenditure.

Instead the higher-ups and, you have to think Josh Kroenke too considering he he's the boss, have said fuck it, roll the dice with what you have, see what happens. That's either a complete lack of awareness or profit driven negligence or both.

In fact we should have triggered Gyokeres' clause and brought him here last month. Paid him what he wanted, gave him a signing bonus like he'll get in the summer when he goes elsewhere. We should have done that the minute the window opened. That would have been the clear sign of intent required to push us on into a serious challenged on 2 fronts and also lock down the striker issue for years to come.

But they just won't spend the money in the crucial moments when it needs to be spent.

[Marc Overmars]

Just when I thought this club had changed and started to behave like a club that was gearing up to win something, we go and spoil it all with this complete act of self sabotage.

January was always going to involve scrapping around the barrel, the real crime was last summer and spending the budget on a load of defensive players.

[Niall_Quinn]

This January has been noted for the unexpectedly large volume and number of opportunities, particularly for strikers. There was plenty in the barrel prior to the last couple of days when we eventually noticed it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Given we gambled and lost our shirt , would it be insensitive to do a cheeky kit launch? We could use Saka, Martinelli and Havertz to model it!

[Mac76]

Just when I thought this club had changed and started to behave like a club that was gearing up to win something, we go and spoil it all with this complete act of self sabotage.

January was always going to involve scrapping around the barrel, the real crime was last summer and spending the budget on a load of defensive players.

:gp:

though I still think we could have done something in January if we'd been planning to earlier - it was only the Jesus injury that prompted us we were already well short attacking-wise before he got injured, given we're not allowed to play Palace every week

[Niall_Quinn]

:gp:

though I still think we could have done something in January if we'd been planning to earlier - it was only the Jesus injury that prompted us we were already well short attacking-wise before he got injured, given we're not allowed to play Palace every week

Amazing in this day and age that archaic rule (going all the way back to the founding of the league, I think) is still on the books.

[Mac76]

Amazing in this day and age that archaic rule (going all the way back to the founding of the league, I think) is still on the books.

Indeed, bloody FA

[McNamara That Ghost...]

4-6-0. :bow:

Spalletti is gonna be so proud.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I think I'm done with this clown ownership.

We started the season with a 22 man squad, 3 short of what is considered to be the norm, 25 max (as we all know, why the hell would you have less?)

We already had Ben White & Tomiyasu out long term, then the other dominoes started to fall.

January should have been used properly and accordingly to bolster the squad.

Instead we've been left to self destruct once again.

Big club my arse.

The only home chant we should have till the end of the season is: "KROENKES OUT!"

[Chippy]

I think I'm done with this clown ownership.

We started the season with a 22 man squad, 3 short of what is considered to be the norm, 25 max (as we all know, why the hell would you have less?)

We already had Ben White & Tomiyasu out long term, then the other dominoes started to fall.

January should have been used properly and accordingly to bolster the squad.

Instead we've been left to self destruct once again.

Big club my arse.

The only home chant we should have till the end of the season is: "KROENKES OUT!"

I just said it on another thread. We call the Spuds serial bottlers but we bottle it every time around this time of the year. Pathetic. Arteta and the (wee Jimmy) Krankee's out!!

[Letters]

I just said it on another thread. We call the Spuds serial bottlers but we bottle it every time around this time of the year. Pathetic. Arteta and the (wee Jimmy) Krankee's out!!

:lol:

We literally won every game but one from this point on last season in the league.

[Chippy]

:lol:

We literally won every game but one from this point on last season in the league.

Ok, one season where we had a good run in. We still didnt win anything. We all know that we have been here many times, and failed.

[Letters]

Ok, one season where we had a good run in. We still didnt win anything. We all know that we have been here many times, and failed.

We have been unlucky with injuries this year but we don't have enough squad depth and that isn't bad luck, we have set ourselves up to fail this year.

[IBK]

So I like to think of myself as someone who can see both sides of an argument, and not simply hold an entrenched view.

I have been arguing on this thread that the owners are not the ones resposible primarily for the mess we are in. And I maintain that stance re the January transfer window. I think that our failure to bring in a forward player was principally born out of an intransigent 'strategy' where certain 'Goldilocks' players have been targeted; it has been determined that we will not pay over the odds for anyone who does not fit the player and age profile that we have identified, and the club lacked the ingenuity; flexibility and nimbleness to pivot and deal with an immediate situation.

But as I have said, I think the real issue stemmed from the Summer and even the couple of years before this. It is indisputable that Arteta has focussed on other parts of the pitch to the detriment of our forward line. It is likely that he has a large part to play in the strategy above and that his natural focus has seen us collect defenders and midfielders rather than look to try to match our competitors up front.

And when we look at the Summer, I think a different picture emerges of the Kroenkes. I thought Arseblog's post was interesting this morning in pointing out that our main signings - Calafiori and Merino - could only be signed once we had sold ESR and Nketiah. I think this is very telling. There has clearly been some kind of spending limit or non-negotiable put in place - even when it comes to key signings endorsed by the manager. I suspect that this sits on top of, or is at least intertwined with the 'Goldilocks' approach that I refer to above. The logical conclusion therefore is that KSE is neither prepared to go the extra financial mile to fund even primary targets, nor to spend over certain limited amounts on 'emergency' signings.

I said in an earlier post that it does not make sense for the owners to deny us an opportunity to win the league, but on reflection I think my view should be modified. I think the Kroenkes were willing to invest sufficiently in the club to make us competetive, and would like us to win things. But I believe now that they are simply not prepared to spend the money required to make this a probablilty rather than a possibility. And sadly I don't see this changing. I think we are back to the 'top four is a trophy' situation that existed under Wenger for so long - the difference being that for a lot of this period there was some merit in this - given the need to pay the stadium debt etc. CL football ticks the financials box. Winning trophies is merely from the owners' standpoint the icing on the cake. If we want more evidence of this, we can look to our reported targets - Cesko; Gyökeres; Williams. All good players but none of them 'sure things' like, say Isak would be. And none in the bracket of, say, a Rice. We need to thank our lucky stars that Saka was home grown.

We are not a 'small time' club, but we are an also ran. And I think that any manager will have his work cut out to win things given this.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think what possibly needs to be clarified is when it’s said KSE don’t want to spend the money. By extension the club’s money is their money…but there’s a difference between saying the club can only spend what the club itself generates financially and the owners digging into their own pockets to spend out.

Now KSE has done this (digging into its own pockets) in the form of loans which is I believe a bit of a fudge to allow us to be FSR/FFP compliant. However Swiss Ramble seems to be of the opinion that the money is there for the club to spend it autonomously without needing to go to Stan with the begging bowl.

Now then the question has to be, are they micro managing how the club spends the finances it generates (because it technically still is their money) or are they within reason more inclined to leave that to the club to decide. The answer to that question is I don’t think any of us know. I think there is arguments that a lot of the financial considerations seem to be being made by lawyer types. I also know the club is worried about the potential for the wage bill to expand…especially as we seem to be trying to offer new contracts to both Saka and Martinelli.

This would for me explain why the decision that in both footballing terms and with the power of hindsight was pretty rum, to get rid of Smith Rowe, Nketiah, Vieira and Nelson without bringing in replacements

[Chippy]

So I like to think of myself as someone who can see both sides of an argument, and not simply hold an entrenched view.

I have been arguing on this thread that the owners are not the ones resposible primarily for the mess we are in. And I maintain that stance re the January transfer window. I think that our failure to bring in a forward player was principally born out of an intransigent 'strategy' where certain 'Goldilocks' players have been targeted; it has been determined that we will not pay over the odds for anyone who does not fit the player and age profile that we have identified, and the club lacked the ingenuity; flexibility and nimbleness to pivot and deal with an immediate situation.

But as I have said, I think the real issue stemmed from the Summer and even the couple of years before this. It is indisputable that Arteta has focussed on other parts of the pitch to the detriment of our forward line. It is likely that he has a large part to play in the strategy above and that his natural focus has seen us collect defenders and midfielders rather than look to try to match our competitors up front.

And when we look at the Summer, I think a different picture emerges of the Kroenkes. I thought Arseblog's post was interesting this morning in pointing out that our main signings - Calafiori and Merino - could only be signed once we had sold ESR and Nketiah. I think this is very telling. There has clearly been some kind of spending limit or non-negotiable put in place - even when it comes to key signings endorsed by the manager. I suspect that this sits on top of, or is at least intertwined with the 'Goldilocks' approach that I refer to above. The logical conclusion therefore is that KSE is neither prepared to go the extra financial mile to fund even primary targets, nor to spend over certain limited amounts on 'emergency' signings.

I said in an earlier post that it does not make sense for the owners to deny us an opportunity to win the league, but on reflection I think my view should be modified. I think the Kroenkes were willing to invest sufficiently in the club to make us competetive, and would like us to win things. But I believe now that they are simply not prepared to spend the money required to make this a probablilty rather than a possibility. And sadly I don't see this changing. I think we are back to the 'top four is a trophy' situation that existed under Wenger for so long - the difference being that for a lot of this period there was some merit in this - given the need to pay the stadium debt etc. CL football ticks the financials box. Winning trophies is merely from the owners' standpoint the icing on the cake. If we want more evidence of this, we can look to our reported targets - Cesko; Gyökeres; Williams. All good players but none of them 'sure things' like, say Isak would be. And none in the bracket of, say, a Rice. We need to thank our lucky stars that Saka was home grown.

We are not a 'small time' club, but we are an also ran. And I think that any manager will have his work cut out to win things given this.

I agree. Whichever way you look at it, KSE is a business that looks at the bottom line. They can spout as much as they like about being passionate about Arsenal and success, but ask their shareholders about Arsenal Football Club, they don't have a bloody clue, and quite frankly, don't care.

[Letters]

I agree. Whichever way you look at it, KSE is a business that looks at the bottom line. They can spout as much as they like about being passionate about Arsenal and success, but ask their shareholders about Arsenal Football Club, they don't have a bloody clue, and quite frankly, don't care.

You're right, but he's had a fair amount of success with sports franchises in the US, no?
And we've not exactly been frugal over the last 5 years.

[Mac76]

You're right, but he's had a fair amount of success with sports franchises in the US, no?
And we've not exactly been frugal over the last 5 years.

yes I don't think they're involved just to make money with a club that does ok, I think they see success as a way to create more money, that said they don't want to chuck away silly money Chelsea-style either, they may well have underestimated just how much needs to be invested year-on-year to get that success but that's their worst crime probably

[Niall_Quinn]

So I like to think of myself as someone who can see both sides of an argument, and not simply hold an entrenched view.

I have been arguing on this thread that the owners are not the ones resposible primarily for the mess we are in. And I maintain that stance re the January transfer window. I think that our failure to bring in a forward player was principally born out of an intransigent 'strategy' where certain 'Goldilocks' players have been targeted; it has been determined that we will not pay over the odds for anyone who does not fit the player and age profile that we have identified, and the club lacked the ingenuity; flexibility and nimbleness to pivot and deal with an immediate situation.

But as I have said, I think the real issue stemmed from the Summer and even the couple of years before this. It is indisputable that Arteta has focussed on other parts of the pitch to the detriment of our forward line. It is likely that he has a large part to play in the strategy above and that his natural focus has seen us collect defenders and midfielders rather than look to try to match our competitors up front.

And when we look at the Summer, I think a different picture emerges of the Kroenkes. I thought Arseblog's post was interesting this morning in pointing out that our main signings - Calafiori and Merino - could only be signed once we had sold ESR and Nketiah. I think this is very telling. There has clearly been some kind of spending limit or non-negotiable put in place - even when it comes to key signings endorsed by the manager. I suspect that this sits on top of, or is at least intertwined with the 'Goldilocks' approach that I refer to above. The logical conclusion therefore is that KSE is neither prepared to go the extra financial mile to fund even primary targets, nor to spend over certain limited amounts on 'emergency' signings.

I said in an earlier post that it does not make sense for the owners to deny us an opportunity to win the league, but on reflection I think my view should be modified. I think the Kroenkes were willing to invest sufficiently in the club to make us competetive, and would like us to win things. But I believe now that they are simply not prepared to spend the money required to make this a probablilty rather than a possibility. And sadly I don't see this changing. I think we are back to the 'top four is a trophy' situation that existed under Wenger for so long - the difference being that for a lot of this period there was some merit in this - given the need to pay the stadium debt etc. CL football ticks the financials box. Winning trophies is merely from the owners' standpoint the icing on the cake. If we want more evidence of this, we can look to our reported targets - Cesko; Gyökeres; Williams. All good players but none of them 'sure things' like, say Isak would be. And none in the bracket of, say, a Rice. We need to thank our lucky stars that Saka was home grown.

We are not a 'small time' club, but we are an also ran. And I think that any manager will have his work cut out to win things given this.

We're on the same page.

When you look at it from their viewpoint, second in the PL, 3rd in the CL - well done boys! That's good, isn't it?

Then you look at the 60K crammed in, the 100K waiting outside for a ticket, the endorsements, the merchandise, the global reach, the value in the brand itself. I'm thinking if they tuned into AFTV they'd be perplexed at what they are seeing.

To them Arsenal will be a product. Is it a good product? Yes. At an affordable price? Well the 100K waiting list says yes, or maybe even the prices should be higher (look into that for me Josh!) Are the staff happy? You bet your arsenal they are happy, have you seen what they earn? Is future growth on track? We're looking into that 300 mill expansion.

This is what they'll be interested in, not the January transfer window. They have people to deal with that. And that's how it should be in a business, and that's the problem. If football is just a business then we should all be up there along with the Kroenkes cheering the solid metrics coming out of the club.

It's doubtful we can even connect with these people in any meaningful way. Even if they agreed to do everything we demanded they'd likely still end up doing the opposite as they continue to fail to understand what makes this game important to the fans. Why would they? In the States their "franchises" will up and move city if it means more cash, goodbye old fans, hello new. Completely interchangeable.

[Mac76]

We're on the same page.

When you look at it from their viewpoint, second in the PL, 3rd in the CL - well done boys! That's good, isn't it?

Then you look at the 60K crammed in, the 100K waiting outside for a ticket, the endorsements, the merchandise, the global reach, the value in the brand itself. I'm thinking if they tuned into AFTV they'd be perplexed at what they are seeing.

To them Arsenal will be a product. Is it a good product? Yes. At an affordable price? Well the 100K waiting list says yes, or maybe even the prices should be higher (look into that for me Josh!) Are the staff happy? You bet your arsenal they are happy, have you seen what they earn? Is future growth on track? We're looking into that 300 mill expansion.

This is what they'll be interested in, not the January transfer window. They have people to deal with that. And that's how it should be in a business, and that's the problem. If football is just a business then we should all be up there along with the Kroenkes cheering the solid metrics coming out of the club.

It's doubtful we can even connect with these people in any meaningful way. Even if they agreed to do everything we demanded they'd likely still end up doing the opposite as they continue to fail to understand what makes this game important to the fans. Why would they? In the States their "franchises" will up and move city if it means more cash, goodbye old fans, hello new. Completely interchangeable.

I agree with that being possibly close to their mindset but I don't agree they can't see the benefit of actually winning things, plus anyone who runs a business successfully knows you can never stand still - if you aren't striving to always improve your product, someone else will overtake you.

[Chippy]

That's a fair point, we have spent well over the past few years. We just needed to do it again in the January transfer window.

[Niall_Quinn]

I agree with that being possibly close to their mindset but I don't agree they can't see the benefit of actually winning things, plus anyone who runs a business successfully knows you can never stand still - if you aren't striving to always improve your product, someone else will overtake you.

They didn't stand still, they invested enough to keep us competitive. If I start a business and it becomes profitable that doesn't necessarily mean I have to grow revenues that exceed Apple. Maybe I'm happy with half that, or a fraction of it. Depends on my level of ambition and also on what I understand to be realistic. I probably won't exceed Apple turnover (no pun) and it's probably not even my goal because I don't view it as achievable given my resources and what I'm prepared to invest and risk. But I'm still happy banking my profits and growing the business, maybe chucking a bit of cash in when ACME Ltd starts catching up.

I think that January window told us much. About the ambition of the Kroenkes, the competency at the executive level in the club, the complacency of all involved to let this situation develop in the first place. It makes the football appear to be a secondary concern rather than the reason the club exists.

[Mac76]

They didn't stand still, they invested enough to keep us competitive. If I start a business and it becomes profitable that doesn't necessarily mean I have to grow revenues that exceed Apple. Maybe I'm happy with half that, or a fraction of it. Depends on my level of ambition and also on what I understand to be realistic. I probably won't exceed Apple turnover (no pun) and it's probably not even my goal because I don't view it as achievable given my resources and what I'm prepared to invest and risk. But I'm still happy banking my profits and growing the business, maybe chucking a bit of cash in when ACME Ltd starts catching up.

I think that January window told us much. About the ambition of the Kroenkes, the competency at the executive level in the club, the complacency of all involved to let this situation develop in the first place. It makes the football appear to be a secondary concern rather than the reason the club exists.

I still blame Arteta much much more than the Kroenkes - he, not them, decided to prioritise defensive players in the summer, I've heard the club was uneasy about the Merino signing in particular and it could well be one of the reasons Edu left.

Also Arteta had not made signing another attacker in January a priority and wasn't even mentioning it until Jesus got injured, which was far too late - again two years ago we had Trossard et al in place, this season nothing

He didn't even recall Vieira, which given he's on our books already is insanely stubborn on his part

[IBK]

We're on the same page.

When you look at it from their viewpoint, second in the PL, 3rd in the CL - well done boys! That's good, isn't it?

Then you look at the 60K crammed in, the 100K waiting outside for a ticket, the endorsements, the merchandise, the global reach, the value in the brand itself. I'm thinking if they tuned into AFTV they'd be perplexed at what they are seeing.

To them Arsenal will be a product. Is it a good product? Yes. At an affordable price? Well the 100K waiting list says yes, or maybe even the prices should be higher (look into that for me Josh!) Are the staff happy? You bet your arsenal they are happy, have you seen what they earn? Is future growth on track? We're looking into that 300 mill expansion.

This is what they'll be interested in, not the January transfer window. They have people to deal with that. And that's how it should be in a business, and that's the problem. If football is just a business then we should all be up there along with the Kroenkes cheering the solid metrics coming out of the club.

It's doubtful we can even connect with these people in any meaningful way. Even if they agreed to do everything we demanded they'd likely still end up doing the opposite as they continue to fail to understand what makes this game important to the fans. Why would they? In the States their "franchises" will up and move city if it means more cash, goodbye old fans, hello new. Completely interchangeable.

I think that this is quite measured and sensible, and I also echo your answer to Mac's question. Like in life, there is no black and white in this issue, only shades of grey. It's not a question of whether the Kroenke's have invested in players - they have. Even if you look at our rivals from the owners' non-fan perspective (as I think HZC pointed out) Citeh took risks coming into this season that have backfired. Liverpool took risks by signing only Chiesa to come in this season, having their 3 best players on expiring contracts and relying on a 32 year old to continue producing the goods up front. For all our criticism about training methods etc, we had a back up striker, a back up RW, a back up LW coming into the season, and losing Odegard; Saka; Jesus and Martinelli for medium to long term injuries could not reasonably have been predicted.

But we were left short both in quality and numbers with our player departures, and it is perfectly fair to conclude that KSE have not taken spending decisions that reflect a real ambition to be champions. It's a 'nice to have' not an essential from a business perspective, and like you say, the Kroenkes are simply businessmen with no real affinity for the club or emotional investment in success. It is a cold appraisal of the bottom line as well as an executive not at the top of its game that IMO led to our failure to sign a forward in January.

I worry a bit about the functionality of the club's board. For an example of how much importance the Kroenkes attach to a sporting director role, their Colorado Rapid's team's chief business officer (the equivalent role) left after his contract expired in December without a replacement. I wonder whether we can see Edu's departure as the result of a perceived lack of value by the owners in what is in the EPL at least, a crucial position in terms of achieveing transfers. The importance of lawyers like the Kroenkes' adviser, Tim Lewis, and Richard Garlick on the executive hardly suggests that any ambition will take precedence over the balance sheet.

Where the manager has added to our predicament is in his proclivity for spending the funds that are available in CM and defence.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Diego Costa is a free agent. :lol:

We love a Chelsea player.

I'm just saying.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Roberto Firminho being linked with us as he’s about to be axed by the Saudi club he is playing for

I don’t see it happening as his agent would be looking for him to be signed on, on a few years contract not until the end of the season

Would love the idea of having one of liverpools ex players being instrumental in overhauling them

[Niall_Quinn]

Roberto Firminho being linked with us as he’s about to be axed by the Saudi club he is playing for

I don’t see it happening as his agent would be looking for him to be signed on, on a few years contract not until the end of the season

Would love the idea of having one of liverpools ex players being instrumental in overhauling them

There are barrels and then there are barrels that should never be opened, let alone scraped.

[Marc Overmars]

Firmino was a really good player and even at 33 years old having been playing in Saudi I’d suggest he’s better than what we’ve currently got.

[Mac76]

Firmino was a really good player and even at 33 years old having been playing in Saudi I’d suggest he’s better than what we’ve currently got.

yeah, we should take him if available

[HCZ_Reborn]

If and only if it’s till the end of the season is my view

If that’s the case, then he’d clearly be a better choice than the alternatives on the free transfer scene

[Mac76]

If and only if it’s till the end of the season is my view

If that’s the case, then he’d clearly be a better choice than the alternatives on the free transfer scene

well no-one's saying put him on a ten-year contract at 500k a week - we're not Man Utd

[HCZ_Reborn]

well no-one's saying put him on a ten-year contract at 500k a week - we're not Man Utd

No but even if we signed him up on 18 month contract that could affect our summer transfer plans, given that we seem to be hyper sensitive about the wage bill.

Especially as it’s likely he would be probably be wanting a wage similar to what Jesus or Havertz are on

[Mac76]

No but even if we signed him up on 18 month contract that could affect our summer transfer plans, given that we seem to be hyper sensitive about the wage bill.



Well given a big part of our reluctance to pay £60m for Watkins was apparently not to affect our summer plans it's not very likely

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well as per my original post on the subject, this is why I don’t see the move happening. Because his agent will surely try and get more than a six month contract for him

[Mac76]

Well as per my original post on the subject, this is why I don’t see the move happening. Because his agent will surely try and get more than a six month contract for him

your original post says none of that, but in any case at 33 he might like the idea of taking a six-month gig at Arsenal and seeing if he does enough to stay on as a squad player, even if not he gets more exposure in the PL, it's not all up to his agent

[HCZ_Reborn]

Roberto Firminho being linked with us as he’s about to be axed by the Saudi club he is playing for

I don’t see it happening as his agent would be looking for him to be signed on, on a few years contract not until the end of the season

Would love the idea of having one of liverpools ex players being instrumental in overhauling them

Cough

[Mac76]

Cough

oh that original post ... :lol:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

So a spanish publication is saying PSG want Rice and are ready to offer €133m.... if this is true this might be some of the best news we've received in this awful season.

https://www.fichajes.net/noticias/oferta-135-millones-declan-rice-20250222.html

IMO, though Rice is currently the most consistent DM we have in this club, we can and should do better. We overpaid for him and luckily we are being given a chance to correct that error.

My only problem is I do not want Arteta to have access to that money as his judgements on big money transfers have been poor IMO.

I hope against hope, that before this summer, Josh will wake up and get his dad to look for a new coach and hopefully before then we'd have someone with Arsenal DNA or at least someone competent filling in fulltime for Edu.

We've now got Saliba and Rice being valued over €100m and obviously our irreplaceable crown jewel Saka. I see no reason why we can't be positive and expect that bringing in a new experienced coach with a winning track record would get us closer to unlocking the true potential of this team. In fact I don't see why he would struggle to achieve something of note within the first time of asking like the way Slott is with clearly less valuable and influential players.

Also, if you wanted to go further, lets not forget that every single Chelsea manager (except maybe Mourinho's first term) who won the league ( or the CL) won it within their first year at the club with largely the squad of players they inherited from the previous manager and Abramovich (Ancelotti, Di Matteo, Mourinho, Conte and Tuchel). Also AW won the league in his first full season to with a good foundation of players we already had and not having to break the bank.

Anyway, its more of a reason we need to get rid of Arteta sooner than later IMO.

[Niall_Quinn]

So a spanish publication is saying PSG want Rice and are ready to offer €133m.... if this is true this might be some of the best news we've received in this awful season.

https://www.fichajes.net/noticias/oferta-135-millones-declan-rice-20250222.html

IMO, though Rice is currently the most consistent DM we have in this club, we can and should do better. We overpaid for him and luckily we are being given a chance to correct that error.

My only problem is I do not want Arteta to have access to that money as his judgements on big money transfers have been poor IMO.

I hope against hope, that before this summer, Josh will wake up and get his dad to look for a new coach and hopefully before then we'd have someone with Arsenal DNA or at least someone competent filling in fulltime for Edu.

We've now got Saliba and Rice being valued over €100m and obviously our irreplaceable crown jewel Saka. I see no reason why we can't be positive and expect that bringing in a new experienced coach with a winning track record would get us closer to unlocking the true potential of this team. In fact I don't see why he would struggle to achieve something of note within the first time of asking like the way Slott is with clearly less valuable and influential players.

Also, if you wanted to go further, lets not forget that every single Chelsea manager (except maybe Mourinho's first term) who won the league ( or the CL) won it within their first year at the club with largely the squad of players they inherited from the previous manager and Abramovich (Ancelotti, Di Matteo, Mourinho, Conte and Tuchel). Also AW won the league in his first full season to with a good foundation of players we already had and not having to break the bank.

Anyway, its more of a reason we need to get rid of Arteta sooner than later IMO.

If we let Rice and Saliba go we get Sesko, Zubimendi and an inferior CB replacement, and (bet on this) the Kroenke's keep the rest. This will give us even less bite and more of what we're already overburdened with. We'll substitute the 200mill that should be invested in the summer with the fees from Rice and Saliba, in effect it will cost us if we sell these players. Watch. The Kroenke's will rip the club off if given this opportunity.

[Niall_Quinn]

Also, if Rice an Saliba go you can kiss goodbye to Saka and, in future windows, MLS, Nwaneri and any other quality that wants to win things before they die.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Also, if Rice an Saliba go you can kiss goodbye to Saka and, in future windows, MLS, Nwaneri and any other quality that wants to win things before they die.

Fuck MLS will go? Jesus we are totally fucked if that happens

[Niall_Quinn]

Fuck MLS will go? Jesus we are totally fucked if that happens

Calafiore will stay, on big wages, if that's a consolation.

[Marc Overmars]

Rice isn’t going anywhere, he just needs to be played as defensive midfielder where he excels at things like tackling, interceptions and snuffing out danger. He is not the all-action Steven Gerrard type that Arteta seems to think he is.

Should the Zubimendi transfer happen that will be a step in the right direction. I would also like us to sign a player like Morgan Rogers who can help with transitioning defence to attack quickly but also provide a physical presence.

As much as the forward areas need strengthening, we are also going to be very light in midfield if Partey and Jorginho leave as expected.

Major summer ahead that will probably define the remainder of Arteta’s time here.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t really see a future for Rice at the club unless he’s able to prove he’s superior to Zubimendi. In 90% of games there is absolutely no need whatsoever to have both of them on the pitch. Having two players of that kind is fine when you need to put defence first away at the big sides but against most teams where the object is winning….we need a more progressive type of player in front of the 6 (I think that player is Odegaard and the no 10 position should go to Saka or Nwaneri)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Rice isn’t going anywhere, he just needs to be played as defensive midfielder where he excels at things like tackling, interceptions and snuffing out danger. He is not the all-action Steven Gerrard type that Arteta seems to think he is.

Should the Zubimendi transfer happen that will be a step in the right direction. I would also like us to sign a player like Morgan Rogers who can help with transitioning defence to attack quickly but also provide a physical presence.

As much as the forward areas need strengthening, we are also going to be very light in midfield if Partey and Jorginho leave as expected.

Major summer ahead that will probably define the remainder of Arteta’s time here.

I'd also like a player in the mold of Rogers at the club, I think he's a fantastic player.

In fact we came close to doing that when we were linked with Kudus, but you know who changed his mind at the last moment and Kudus begrudgingly joined the Hammers.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don’t really see a future for Rice at the club unless he’s able to prove he’s superior to Zubimendi. In 90% of games there is absolutely no need whatsoever to have both of them on the pitch. Having two players of that kind is fine when you need to put defence first away at the big sides but against most teams where the object is winning….we need a more progressive type of player in front of the 6 (I think that player is Odegaard and the no 10 position should go to Saka or Nwaneri)

For me it's Saka that has to go. He's always injured, he's non-technical and Partey could do a better job in that position so the best we can offer Saka is the bench. He might as well go, we don't need him.

[HCZ_Reborn]

For me it's Saka that has to go. He's always injured, he's non-technical and Partey could do a better job in that position so the best we can offer Saka is the bench. He might as well go, we don't need him.

You’re the one who constantly mentions Partey, don’t make your obsession mine

[Niall_Quinn]

You’re the one who constantly mentions Partey, don’t make your obsession mine

I thought Partey would be pivoting and rotating and doing stuff like that? Switch Partey and Rice, wasn't that the plan? Maybe I took you literally.

Saka should also go because he's not worth the huge transfer fee we'll get for him.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I thought Partey would be pivoting and rotating and doing stuff like that? Switch Partey and Rice, wasn't that the plan? Maybe I took you literally.

Saka should also go because he's not worth the huge transfer fee we'll get for him.

That’s the plan for this season. Partey is going in the summer

Because Partey is useless at 6, and Rice isn’t a number 8. Partey would be a sticking plaster solution

If Zubimendi is bought it’s presumably cover for Rice, but again I’ve only seen him at international level and his passing is superior to Rice so that might displace Rice.

Or at least it would do if I didn’t think Arteta would continue playing Rice at 8 where he doesn’t belong

[Niall_Quinn]

That’s the plan for this season. Partey is going in the summer

Because Partey is useless at 6, and Rice isn’t a number 8. Partey would be a sticking plaster solution

If Zubimendi is bought it’s presumably cover for Rice, but again I’ve only seen him at international level and his passing is superior to Rice so that might displace Rice.

Or at least it would do if I didn’t think Arteta would continue playing Rice at 8 where he doesn’t belong

You must not have been watching Partey when he's under the slightest pressure. Thnk the tip-tap is bad now, wait for the 500 backward passes stats. Partey at 8 would be like an extra opposition defender. He never takes responsibility and you can often find him in no-man's land leaving it all to his team mates. Rice is infinitely superior in that role, even though I agree, that should not be Rice's role. Rather than Rice or Zubimendi it should be Rice or Partey and happily that takes care of itself in the summer.

Arteta will have to change plenty if he wants to be here in 26. But even if he doesn't change, we don't sell one of our key players because Arteta is fucking up. We'll need Rice for whoever comes in after Arteta if the latter can't find ways to use this squad to full effect.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Rice is also terrible under Pressure, but Partey is better at making progressive passing, in that he’s half a second quicker at finding a team mate than Rice. But it’s also largely academic. Apart from doing enough to get into next season’s champions league this season is over. However Dynamic or direct you think we should be will not change the fact that we don’t have goalscorers and that results like Saturday are likely to be commonplace

Going forward I think you have to be ruthless. If we want to win anything, as I say for 90% of games you will not need both Zubimendi and Rice. I think Zubimendi is the superior player but that will remain to be seen.

[Mac76]

I'd also like a player in the mold of Rogers at the club, I think he's a fantastic player.

In fact we came close to doing that when we were linked with Kudus, but you know who changed his mind at the last moment and Kudus begrudgingly joined the Hammers.

Well be fair, we needed to buy another defender ;)

[Chippy]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-william-saliba-transfers-summer-34742790

An interesting article highlighted by Ian Wright in the Mirror.

Sadly, if these players do stall on their contracts, we will need to get the best price for them rather than them running down their contracts.

[Marc Overmars]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-william-saliba-transfers-summer-34742790

An interesting article highlighted by Ian Wright in the Mirror.

Sadly, if these players do stall on their contracts, we will need to get the best price for them rather than them running down their contracts.

Feel like we’ve got one more season left with this group before we need to think about the possibility of major change, which includes Arteta as well as the big players.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-william-saliba-transfers-summer-34742790

An interesting article highlighted by Ian Wright in the Mirror.

Sadly, if these players do stall on their contracts, we will need to get the best price for them rather than them running down their contracts.

As usual we've done a terrible job with contracts, as Saliba just signed a new contract 2 years ago with pretty high wages so I wonder why you'd give a young player at that age such good terms and not make it a 5 year contract...pretty poor work as usual.

If we can't convince him to sign soon and wait till the last year, Real Madrid will do what they do best, get into his head and convince him to go on a free... in fact, with the great terms he already has I am struggling to see how he signing a new contract with us is in his best interest.

[HCZ_Reborn]

As usual we've done a terrible job with contracts, as Saliba just signed a new contract 2 years ago with pretty high wages so I wonder why you'd give a young player at that age such good terms and not make it a 5 year contract...pretty poor work as usual.

If we can't convince him to sign soon and wait till the last year, Real Madrid will do what they do best, get into his head and convince him to go on a free... in fact, with the great terms he already has I am struggling to see how he signing a new contract with us is in his best interest.

I’m curious. Do you think we chose only to extend his contract by two years? Or maybe just maybe do you think that’s all we could negotiate with his agent. Who might have thought, well if we tie him down to this long a contract im not going to get my pay day when the big clubs in Europe come sniffing because I will have zero leverage in order to orchestrate a move.

Chelsea were able to sign youngsters down to these multi year contracts because there was no guarantee that any of these players would come good (and a lot of them haven’t) yet when Saliba signed a contract extension with us he’d already established himself as an invaluable player.

That plus they had no issue running an entirely unsustainable wage bill

I think we all recognise that there are things the club has done that is mistaken, but simply yelling “that’s what you should have done” at everything makes us sound like that character from Harry Enfield sketch

[Chippy]

As usual we've done a terrible job with contracts, as Saliba just signed a new contract 2 years ago with pretty high wages so I wonder why you'd give a young player at that age such good terms and not make it a 5 year contract...pretty poor work as usual.

If we can't convince him to sign soon and wait till the last year, Real Madrid will do what they do best, get into his head and convince him to go on a free... in fact, with the great terms he already has I am struggling to see how he signing a new contract with us is in his best interest.

Is it more difficult now that Edu has departed? Has anyone stepped into his position at the club?

This is going to be a very interesting summer.

[IBK]

I’m curious. Do you think we chose only to extend his contract by two years? Or maybe just maybe do you think that’s all we could negotiate with his agent. Who might have thought, well if we tie him down to this long a contract im not going to get my pay day when the big clubs in Europe come sniffing because I will have zero leverage in order to orchestrate a move.

Chelsea were able to sign youngsters down to these multi year contracts because there was no guarantee that any of these players would come good (and a lot of them haven’t) yet when Saliba signed a contract extension with us he’d already established himself as an invaluable player.

That plus they had no issue running an entirely unsustainable wage bill

I think we all recognise that there are things the club has done that is mistaken, but simply yelling “that’s what you should have done” at everything makes us sound like that character from Harry Enfield sketch

Sage points.

@Chippy I have been concerned about the Edu thing from the get go. The fact that we have not replaced him when for the kind of transformational Summer we need to complete Arteta's project we should be planning; trying to secure deals and having a;b;c;d &e alternatives now is very worrying. I don't want Jason Ayto as director of football. We do not know what his role as interim has been, but the evidence that we do have (no signings) hardly instils confidence, and the last thing we need is a yes man who is more interested in deferring to his superiors than doing what is in our best interests on the pitch. It's no coincidence that the most successful teams of the past few years have had really good club structures in place. I think Edu's departure has quite seriously affected ours.

[HCZ_Reborn]

My understanding (although it could be just paper talk) is that an agreement to bring in Roberto Olabe as Edu’s replacement is pretty much a done deal. This was the Sociedad director of football, and would make sense given the players from Sociedad that we have shown interest in

Signed Merino, Odegaard

Practically signed Zubimendi


Interested in players like Isaak and Take Kubo

[HCZ_Reborn]

Now if we are worried about the style of play we wish to adopt, it seems to me that Arteta is very taken with the Spanish team that won Euro 2024. Which again is based of possession but not at all costs (they had the majority of possession against us and France but not Germany) but also about lightning thrust counter attacks

This to me seems why we are constantly linked with Inaki Williams


All speculation on my part, but the Spain team is very basque centred unlike previous Spain teams which are more Barcelona centred

[IBK]

My understanding (although it could be just paper talk) is that an agreement to bring in Roberto Olabe as Edu’s replacement is pretty much a done deal. This was the Sociedad director of football, and would make sense given the players from Sociedad that we have shown interest in

Signed Merino, Odegaard

Practically signed Zubimendi


Interested in players like Isaak and Take Kubo

If this is true, then for me it will be a relief (though tempered by timing - and the need to be hitting teh ground running come May). What I want is an outsider who knows his stuff and will be prepared to exercise his authority in transfers.

[Niall_Quinn]

200 mill is the fee being bandied about for Isak now. LOL

You could build a whole team that could do a decent job in the PL for that amount.

This is another gift from the January window, sellers know how desperate we are and they'll milk it. If we do get a striker and can't secure a buyout we'll pay well over the odds. Which probably means we won't get a striker at all, at least not of the calibre we should already have signed several seasons ago.

[Mac76]

Is it more difficult now that Edu has departed?

Yes


Has anyone stepped into his position at the club?



No and it's very quiet on the subject, on the outside at least. I'm concerned Arteta will want a yes man which would be a disaster


This is going to be a very interesting summer.

or, as per above, a disastrous one

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I’m curious. Do you think we chose only to extend his contract by two years? Or maybe just maybe do you think that’s all we could negotiate with his agent. Who might have thought, well if we tie him down to this long a contract im not going to get my pay day when the big clubs in Europe come sniffing because I will have zero leverage in order to orchestrate a move.

Chelsea were able to sign youngsters down to these multi year contracts because there was no guarantee that any of these players would come good (and a lot of them haven’t) yet when Saliba signed a contract extension with us he’d already established himself as an invaluable player.

That plus they had no issue running an entirely unsustainable wage bill

I think we all recognise that there are things the club has done that is mistaken, but simply yelling “that’s what you should have done” at everything makes us sound like that character from Harry Enfield sketch

As usual, you just jump in with very little helpful, criticising posters who make observations about things you haven't pointed out yet. Next time I'll be sure to wait for your seal of approval before commenting on anything you haven't rubber-stamped.

We signed teenage Saliba, on a 5 year contract, in 2019 from a small ligue 1 club for a big transfer fee based on solely potential. His annual wage at that time was $2m and he was the highest paid teenager at the club and probably the EPL at that time . Remember he was not starting, nor even close to starting, but it was a gamble for the future which we were willing to risk.

He's shipped off on loan for the first 3 years where he does well. With increasing spotlight and fan pressure, Arteta reluctantly gives him a chance in his 4th year, breaks into the team, has a great season till March when he gets injured. Before the next season could start we approach him to sign his new 4 year contract while he is injured. We offer him a new annual salary of $10m, 5 times more than what he was earning making him top 5 best paid defenders in the EPL, probably top 10 in the world . These were the facts then

Saliba had a good 7 months in England. He's foreign born and has in interviews expressed poor knowledge of the history of the team he currently plays for. He's been asked about Real Madrid and only smiles. The best french talent for the last 2 decades have played in La Liga, it's not a secret. During his loan period PSG started sniffing around and he's childhood friends with Mbappe, whose father also happened to be his coach! Arsenal do not live in a bubble, which you seem to like to create when you are in the mood to defend the club

You mentioned Chelsea, thinking you'd preempt me, saying they are the ones silly enough to give young players, who everyone is gambling on, long contracts. But realistically, looking at this scenario, is it stupid, that once you've paid a high transfer fee for potential, and the potential seems to be coming through, you should be smart enough to secure your investment for as long as you can, especially when you've only really enjoyed it for 7 months and already you are having to pay top dollar to retain it? Is it really stupid?

Foden is a year older than Saliba. He broke into the Citeh's team in 2019 and before the end of the year, Citeh get him to sign a new five year contract after initially only offering him a 3 year contract when he was 16. The contract was for $624k a year and Foden had already started scoring goals for Citeh in both the EPL and CL by that time. This is the same year we signed Saliba, who everyone classified as potential. Anyway Foden's next contract with Citeh would be in 2022 when he's already a superstar, and guess what, its 5 years again, but this time at almost $12m. Before Foden, they'd had young stars like Stones come through from Everton who they signed for a 6 year contract initially and at the age of 26 still offered him a 5 year contract, which he is still currently on. I don't need to tell you that Haaland's first contract was 5 years and his new one is a shocking 10 years.

At Liverpool, its pretty much the same for young talent. Gomez has signed 4 contracts with Liverpool since he's been there and they've all been 5 years. Robertson has signed 3, all 5 years. Trent's first 3 had all been 5 years or longer, till this recent one which he signed for 4 years.....and now Liverpool are running helter-skelter, trying to get him to renew and its the usual suspect that wants to take him for a free

So its not a Chelsea thing, that when you have young players that are performing remarkably for their age, you get them to sign contracts of 5 years or more. To me its just common sense that you'd want to protect a gamble that paid off. But you can go on trying to score cheap points and making your argument that "it was the best his agent would allow us to do and poor Arsenal have no leverage" , when even Saka, who would bleed for this club, is only on a silly 4 year contract.

BTW the terms are all in dollars as I used this website for the contract info.

www.spotrac.com

[Niall_Quinn]

My understanding (although it could be just paper talk) is that an agreement to bring in Roberto Olabe as Edu’s replacement is pretty much a done deal. This was the Sociedad director of football, and would make sense given the players from Sociedad that we have shown interest in

Signed Merino, Odegaard

Practically signed Zubimendi


Interested in players like Isaak and Take Kubo

Let's see if we've still practically signed Zubimendi once the season tickets have been renewed.

[IBK]

As usual, you just jump in with very little helpful, criticising posters who make observations about things you haven't pointed out yet. Next time I'll be sure to wait for your seal of approval before commenting on anything you haven't rubber-stamped.

We signed teenage Saliba, on a 5 year contract, in 2019 from a small ligue 1 club for a big transfer fee based on solely potential. His annual wage at that time was $2m and he was the highest paid teenager at the club and probably the EPL at that time . Remember he was not starting, nor even close to starting, but it was a gamble for the future which we were willing to risk.

He's shipped off on loan for the first 3 years where he does well. With increasing spotlight and fan pressure, Arteta reluctantly gives him a chance in his 4th year, breaks into the team, has a great season till March when he gets injured. Before the next season could start we approach him to sign his new 4 year contract while he is injured. We offer him a new annual salary of $10m, 5 times more than what he was earning making him top 5 best paid defenders in the EPL, probably top 10 in the world . These were the facts then

Saliba had a good 7 months in England. He's foreign born and has in interviews expressed poor knowledge of the history of the team he currently plays for. He's been asked about Real Madrid and only smiles. The best french talent for the last 2 decades have played in La Liga, it's not a secret. During his loan period PSG started sniffing around and he's childhood friends with Mbappe, whose father also happened to be his coach! Arsenal do not live in a bubble, which you seem to like to create when you are in the mood to defend the club

You mentioned Chelsea, thinking you'd preempt me, saying they are the ones silly enough to give young players, who everyone is gambling on, long contracts. But realistically, looking at this scenario, is it stupid, that once you've paid a high transfer fee for potential, and the potential seems to be coming through, you should be smart enough to secure your investment for as long as you can, especially when you've only really enjoyed it for 7 months and already you are having to pay top dollar to retain it? Is it really stupid?

Foden is a year older than Saliba. He broke into the Citeh's team in 2019 and before the end of the year, Citeh get him to sign a new five year contract after initially only offering him a 3 year contract when he was 16. The contract was for $624k a year and Foden had already started scoring goals for Citeh in both the EPL and CL by that time. This is the same year we signed Saliba, who everyone classified as potential. Anyway Foden's next contract with Citeh would be in 2022 when he's already a superstar, and guess what, its 5 years again, but this time at almost $12m. Before Foden, they'd had young stars like Stones come through from Everton who they signed for a 6 year contract initially and at the age of 26 still offered him a 5 year contract, which he is still currently on. I don't need to tell you that Haaland's first contract was 5 years and his new one is a shocking 10 years.

At Liverpool, its pretty much the same for young talent. Gomez has signed 4 contracts with Liverpool since he's been there and they've all been 5 years. Robertson has signed 3, all 5 years. Trent's first 3 had all been 5 years or longer, till this recent one which he signed for 4 years.....and now Liverpool are running helter-skelter, trying to get him to renew and its the usual suspect that wants to take him for a free

So its not a Chelsea thing, that when you have young players that are performing remarkably for their age, you get them to sign contracts of 5 years or more. To me its just common sense that you'd want to protect a gamble that paid off. But you can go on trying to score cheap points and making your argument that "it was the best his agent would allow us to do and poor Arsenal have no leverage" , when even Saka, who would bleed for this club, is only on a silly 4 year contract.

BTW the terms are all in dollars as I used this website for the contract info.

www.spotrac.com (http://www.spotrac.com)

I get all that, but we did sign Saliba to a 4 year contract in 2023 - so is your point that we should have tied him down to 5 years? That's only one year more - and I'm not sure even a 5 year contract would prevent RM from sniffing around now? Also, contracts are not one sided. It's more than possible that in 2023 - with our project still in the formative stage - Saliba's people were not willing to extend this term.

It's pretty common for even the most well organised clubs to start renewal negotiations 2 years out. And for a club like Arsenal (unlike Chelsea or Citeh with unlimited funds) you have to plan for these not to turn out the way you want.

I'm not sure we have (yet) mismanaged Saliba's renewal. Our problem is that unlike Liverpool or Citeh, we haven't won anything, and that will count against us to a greater or lesser degree.

If he is not prepared to commit to a new contract, then the one thing we can't afford to do is risk him running his present one down and not cashing in on a valuable asset. Balancing this situation is tricky...my fear is that we won't have the nous to manage it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

As usual, you just jump in with very little helpful, criticising posters who make observations about things you haven't pointed out yet. Next time I'll be sure to wait for your seal of approval before commenting on anything you haven't rubber-stamped.

We signed teenage Saliba, on a 5 year contract, in 2019 from a small ligue 1 club for a big transfer fee based on solely potential. His annual wage at that time was $2m and he was the highest paid teenager at the club and probably the EPL at that time . Remember he was not starting, nor even close to starting, but it was a gamble for the future which we were willing to risk.

He's shipped off on loan for the first 3 years where he does well. With increasing spotlight and fan pressure, Arteta reluctantly gives him a chance in his 4th year, breaks into the team, has a great season till March when he gets injured. Before the next season could start we approach him to sign his new 4 year contract while he is injured. We offer him a new annual salary of $10m, 5 times more than what he was earning making him top 5 best paid defenders in the EPL, probably top 10 in the world . These were the facts then

Saliba had a good 7 months in England. He's foreign born and has in interviews expressed poor knowledge of the history of the team he currently plays for. He's been asked about Real Madrid and only smiles. The best french talent for the last 2 decades have played in La Liga, it's not a secret. During his loan period PSG started sniffing around and he's childhood friends with Mbappe, whose father also happened to be his coach! Arsenal do not live in a bubble, which you seem to like to create when you are in the mood to defend the club

You mentioned Chelsea, thinking you'd preempt me, saying they are the ones silly enough to give young players, who everyone is gambling on, long contracts. But realistically, looking at this scenario, is it stupid, that once you've paid a high transfer fee for potential, and the potential seems to be coming through, you should be smart enough to secure your investment for as long as you can, especially when you've only really enjoyed it for 7 months and already you are having to pay top dollar to retain it? Is it really stupid?

Foden is a year older than Saliba. He broke into the Citeh's team in 2019 and before the end of the year, Citeh get him to sign a new five year contract after initially only offering him a 3 year contract when he was 16. The contract was for $624k a year and Foden had already started scoring goals for Citeh in both the EPL and CL by that time. This is the same year we signed Saliba, who everyone classified as potential. Anyway Foden's next contract with Citeh would be in 2022 when he's already a superstar, and guess what, its 5 years again, but this time at almost $12m. Before Foden, they'd had young stars like Stones come through from Everton who they signed for a 6 year contract initially and at the age of 26 still offered him a 5 year contract, which he is still currently on. I don't need to tell you that Haaland's first contract was 5 years and his new one is a shocking 10 years.

At Liverpool, its pretty much the same for young talent. Gomez has signed 4 contracts with Liverpool since he's been there and they've all been 5 years. Robertson has signed 3, all 5 years. Trent's first 3 had all been 5 years or longer, till this recent one which he signed for 4 years.....and now Liverpool are running helter-skelter, trying to get him to renew and its the usual suspect that wants to take him for a free

So its not a Chelsea thing, that when you have young players that are performing remarkably for their age, you get them to sign contracts of 5 years or more. To me its just common sense that you'd want to protect a gamble that paid off. But you can go on trying to score cheap points and making your argument that "it was the best his agent would allow us to do and poor Arsenal have no leverage" , when even Saka, who would bleed for this club, is only on a silly 4 year contract.

BTW the terms are all in dollars as I used this website for the contract info.

www.spotrac.com

That was a very beautiful homily.

So the examples you gave me are Joe Gomez who let’s be fair is a squad player at best for Liverpool and Phil Foden who is a Man City academy player. The circumstances aren’t really like for like are they?

But again I ask you, do you think the club chose to only give Saliba a two year extension or do you think they might have wanted to tie him down to a longer deal but a player with no natural loyalty to the club and an agent who like all agents is thinking of money first and foremost may have persuaded his client to only sign a two year deal?

My problem with some of your moans is you treat the club like it was run like Kidz company and we’ve got someone like Camilla Batmangeldh running things. For me it’s as silly as the zombies who intone “Trust the process” because they probably weren’t even born when we first won the title under Wenger.

You’re pissed off with things at the moment (and absolutely with good reason) there are times where I’ve gone off the deep end and need to get a sense of perspective. If I think someone is being over the top I’m going to say so….people have with me on here when I’ve gone into a psychopathic fury over something Arteta has done

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I get all that, but we did sign Saliba to a 4 year contract in 2023 - so is your point that we should have tied him down to 5 years? That's only one year more - and I'm not sure even a 5 year contract would prevent RM from sniffing around now? Also, contracts are not one sided. It's more than possible that in 2023 - with our project still in the formative stage - Saliba's people were not willing to extend this term.

It's pretty common for even the most well organised clubs to start renewal negotiations 2 years out. And for a club like Arsenal (unlike Chelsea or Citeh with unlimited funds) you have to plan for these not to turn out the way you want.

I'm not sure we have (yet) mismanaged Saliba's renewal. Our problem is that unlike Liverpool or Citeh, we haven't won anything, and that will count against us to a greater or lesser degree.

If he is not prepared to commit to a new contract, then the one thing we can't afford to do is risk him running his present one down and not cashing in on a valuable asset. Balancing this situation is tricky...my fear is that we won't have the nous to manage it.

My point was, there was no reason for us at that time, to do the bare minimum and agree to a 4 year contract, when it was clear we were in the stronger bargaining position. He'd played for us for only 7 months, he was already injured and still about 20-21....who in their right senses does the bare minimum to keep someone at that age who has impressed you so much within such a short space of time?!

Yes, it should have been at least 5 years and lets not forget for 3 years we'd been paying his salary and allowing him to get cuddles from mummy while sleeping at home in France.

Yes, an additional one year would never stop Real Madrid from sniffing around, after all they are Real Madrid for a reason i.e. insatiable ambition. You'll never see me complaining that the likes of RM or PSG want our players...its a good sign like I pointed out earlier in another post.

I just can't see the justification for us being a weaker position now, because all this should have been expected i.e. all big clubs want young talent and will try and get it cheaply off you if they can. Even without the Mbappe example, young players can afford to run down their contracts, they are just at the start of their careers, its just common sense.

I've always complained about our transfer strategy. In the last 30 years we've produced some of the best young players in the world and only been compensated properly once IMO, the Anelka transfer which some people here weren't even alive when it occurred. That's a big shame for a big club like ours.

Anyway, it's not the end of the world, but I wish some posters will stop making it sound like we are always doing our best when a lot of things we do show small club mentality. Also IBK, I'm sure the Spuds , who don't have a limitless budget do the same with young players and longer contracts

BTW, I don't believe winning trophies would stop a player like Saliba from leaving. He's never really hit me like that type of "trophy driven" player. If he leaves it will be a cultural thing (and probably because he is young), all I am saying is they should have expected it knowing his bio, at least I do (and a lot of the press to it seems).

[IBK]

My point was, there was no reason for us at that time, to do the bare minimum and agree to a 4 year contract, when it was clear we were in the stronger bargaining position. He'd played for us for only 7 months, he was already injured and still about 20-21....who in their right senses does the bare minimum to keep someone at that age who has impressed you so much within such a short space of time?!

Yes, it should have been at least 5 years and lets not forget for 3 years we'd been paying his salary and allowing him to get cuddles from mummy while sleeping at home in France.

Yes, an additional one year would never stop Real Madrid from sniffing around, after all they are Real Madrid for a reason i.e. insatiable ambition. You'll never see me complaining that the likes of RM or PSG want our players...its a good sign like I pointed out earlier in another post.

I just can't see the justification for us being a weaker position now, because all this should have been expected i.e. all big clubs want young talent and will try and get it cheaply off you if they can. Even without the Mbappe example, young players can afford to run down their contracts, they are just at the start of their careers, its just common sense.

I've always complained about our transfer strategy. In the last 30 years we've produced some of the best young players in the world and only been compensated properly once IMO, the Anelka transfer which some people here weren't even alive when it happened.That's a big shame for a big club like ours.

Anyway, it's not the end of the world, but I wish some posters will stop making it sound like we are always doing our best when a lot of things we do show small club mentality. Also IBK, I'm sure the Spuds , who don't have a limitless budget do the same with young players and longer contracts

BTW, I don't believe winning trophies would stop a player like Saliba from leaving. He's never really hit me like that type of "trophy driven" player. If he leaves it will be a cultural thing (and probably because he is young), all I am saying is they should have expected it knowing his bio, at least I do (and a lot of the press to it seems).

Well if it was possible for us to tie Saliba down to a longer contract I can kind of see your point. But there's nothing to suggest that Saliba's people would have agreed this. I don't buy that winning trophies would make no difference to his desire to leave. There's nothing to base your 'trophy driven' observation on - and like almost all 'top players' silverware is a significant motivation. Like you say he is young and if he ultimately wishes to play for RM or PSG then he could do while re-signing with us. Not winning - or looking like we will win - makes it more likely that he won't re-sign.

I don't disagree with you about the club not maximising transfer values for outgoing players generally, but in this particular case I'm not sure that your criticism is totally merited - or the biggest of our failings. Like I say, I don't think 4 years was negligent in terms of contract length, and there's nothing to say the club didn't push for longer, or an extension clause. 2 years out we can still cash in well if he doesn't want to commit to us. But this takes a certain amount of bravery and replacement planning. It is these latter attributes that I have less confidence in, not the deal done in 2023.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

So the examples you gave me are Joe Gomez who let’s be fair is a squad player at best for Liverpool and Phil Foden who is a Man City academy player. The circumstances aren’t really like for like are they?

But again I ask you, do you think the club chose to only give Saliba a two year extension or do you think they might have wanted to tie him down to a longer deal but a player with no natural loyalty to the club and an agent who like all agents is thinking of money first and foremost may have persuaded his client to only sign a two year deal?



So let's make this easy, seeing as I'm the one who is being irrational, despite being the only one who bothers to give similar examples to why I believe we faltered, yet again.

Can you give me an example, in the last 5 years, of a top professional footballer (before you go looking for what happened at Notts County) who turned down a new contract at his existing club because it was 5 years or more.

Once you do that I'll apologise to everyone here for being irrational and OTT.

Edit:
@IBK
Just seen your last post, the same challenge goes to you

[HCZ_Reborn]

So let's make this easy, seeing as I'm the one who is being irrational, despite being the only one who bothers to give similar examples to why I believe we faltered, yet again.

Can you give me an example, in the last 5 years, of a top professional footballer (before you go looking for what happened at Notts County) who turned down a new contract at his existing club because it was 5 years or more.

Once you do that I'll apologise to everyone here for being irrational and OTT.

Edit:
@IBK
Just seen your last post, the same challenge goes to you

At the risk of answering your question with a question, have you heard of a club withdrawing from contract negotiations with a player because they wanted to tie him down for longer than the player wanted?


This is why they are called contract negotiations, the club might want one thing, the agent and the player another and in most cases the press aren’t going to hear about what goes on behind closed doors


So to put my point in further perspective. There are lots of decisions made by management in my job that utterly mystify me…but I accept that I can only reason with the information available to me. I make a point in meetings of questioning what they do, and you know sometimes they’ve had to factor in something I’ve not even considered, and sometimes yeah….its just utter fucking stupidity :lol:

So alls I’m saying is, it’s not a happy time to be an Arsenal fan we all feel pissed off. But as I say, it could be that we have people in charge who are about as business savvy as those at the head of ENRON. It could equally be that there are factors involved that we’ve not considered

[KSE Comedy Club]

200 mill is the fee being bandied about for Isak now. LOL

You could build a whole team that could do a decent job in the PL for that amount.

This is another gift from the January window, sellers know how desperate we are and they'll milk it. If we do get a striker and can't secure a buyout we'll pay well over the odds. Which probably means we won't get a striker at all, at least not of the calibre we should already have signed several seasons ago.

Am I the only person who doesn't want Isak and knows full well we won't get him no matter how much money we offer?

[Marc Overmars]

Oh I definitely want him because he’s a the best striker in the league. However I think the chances of us spending the type of money Newcastle would demand is laughable. I don’t actually know why his name is even linked with us because it’s so unrealistic.

I believe Sesko is the striker we will probably sign.

[Mac76]

His contract runs up to 2028 so yes it will be tricky, If Newcaslte don't get European football (which is possible) then he might really want to go to one that is in the CL, but the amount of money as you say would be crazy and would feel very galling as we could have signed him two years ago fro much much less

[HCZ_Reborn]

Am I the only person who doesn't want Isak and knows full well we won't get him no matter how much money we offer?

Not saying you’re wrong, but why don’t you want Isaak?

Putting aside for the moment you don’t think we’d get him anyway. If getting him was a possibility….why wouldn’t you want him.

[Niall_Quinn]

Am I the only person who doesn't want Isak and knows full well we won't get him no matter how much money we offer?

I don't want him either because he doesn't give us what we need, which is a forceful threat in the box. I definitely don't want him for 150 mill or 200 mill or whatever crazy shit they are throwing out now (I assume that includes extortionate wages). I want Gyokeres for 73 mill and I want him last summer (if possible) or last January (very latest). Don't want Sesko here either, unless he's a +1.

Did you see how Obi-Martins might get a start tonight. How sickening would that be, if we're fucking around hunting behind the sofa for strikers and we already had a potential Isak sitting in the reserves. Nothing's guaranteed but if turns into the next 100 mill plus striker you can add it to our list of our fuckery in the transfer market.

[IBK]

I would want Isak of course, but not at the price that he will now command - which would put paid to any further business from us.

I also have concerns abiout whether he would be as effective for us as he is for Newcastle - given our horsehoe of doom style of play; lack of quick transitions and the fact that unlike where he is now, he will be playing low blocks every week.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don't want him either because he doesn't give us what we need, which is a forceful threat in the box. I definitely don't want him for 150 mill or 200 mill or whatever crazy shit they are throwing out now (I assume that includes extortionate wages). I want Gyokeres for 73 mill and I want him last summer (if possible) or last January (very latest). Don't want Sesko here either, unless he's a +1.

Did you see how Obi-Martins might get a start tonight. How sickening would that be, if we're fucking around hunting behind the sofa for strikers and we already had a potential Isak sitting in the reserves. Nothing's guaranteed but if turns into the next 100 mill plus striker you can add it to our list of our fuckery in the transfer market.



Gyokeres?. Not wishing to pay 75 million for someone who is 26 and never played in a bigger league than Portugal

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah well he'll be 50 by the time we pull our finger out. He's 6'2", a Swedish international with 15 goals in 26 appearances (mostly not in Portugal), two footed, howitzer shot, he's got pace, he's direct, he's physical, good on the deck, can take on his man and actually beat him, good in the air and as a bonus he's a total scrote. Just the player we need in the box to bully the defence, tap some in, smash some in and score a few off his arse after a huge bundle.

Should already be here but apparently he's holding out for a summer signing bonus which we should have agreed to give him this January. He'd do us for the next 3 years which, if you divide that fee and the wages, is a bargain.

Whoever gets him will be instantly improved and I'm betting it won't be us. Now I see we're being linked with Kluivert which will the start of links with just about every striker in world football I'm sure, apart from the obvious choice staring us right in the face.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh and he plays like Shearer only he's more technical. Would have him over Isak any day, not because Isak isn't a good striker but because he'd only be able to do half of what Gyokeres can. For twice the price.

Meanwhile we have two decent young strikers coming through the academy, which gives us 3 years to bed them in, which we'll likely need to do if we splash on a striker in the summer (because we won't be getting any more cash anytime soon).

Of course we could also get nobody again and that's as likely as any outcome.

[Niall_Quinn]

Actually scrub all that. Forgot about his sell-on fee. Won't be enough. Resume the search...

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

At the risk of answering your question with a question, have you heard of a club withdrawing from contract negotiations with a player because they wanted to tie him down for longer than the player wanted?


This is why they are called contract negotiations, the club might want one thing, the agent and the player another and in most cases the press aren’t going to hear about what goes on behind closed doors


So to put my point in further perspective. There are lots of decisions made by management in my job that utterly mystify me…but I accept that I can only reason with the information available to me. I make a point in meetings of questioning what they do, and you know sometimes they’ve had to factor in something I’ve not even considered, and sometimes yeah….its just utter fucking stupidity :lol:

So alls I’m saying is, it’s not a happy time to be an Arsenal fan we all feel pissed off. But as I say, it could be that we have people in charge who are about as business savvy as those at the head of ENRON. It could equally be that there are factors involved that we’ve not considered

It is crystal clear that you are clutching at straws.

Negotiations leak regularly when there are disagreements causing stalemate or conflict. For example we know Liverpool have been trying to tie Salah, Van Dijk and Trent down, but they are not signing because the terms are not favourable to them yet. In Salah's case we know Liverpool did not offer him a contract as at November last year, because the player publicly came out to confirm the rumours that had already been swirling around. We know they changed tact in December and initially offered a 1 year extension, which has now been upgraded to 2 years. However we also know that both he and his agent prefer a 3 year extension because they've also let that out.

Top footballers have been celebrities for quite a while and there is literally nothing that doesn't leak especially when it has the ability to capture the public's interest. So no, if a top player had been offered a 5 year contract by a club and he insisted on 4 or even shorter and they both failed to agree, we'd have heard just like whats happening with Liverpool.

Now, against my better judgment, I'm going to explain why it's not logical that the club offered a 5 year contract to Saliba and his agent insisted on 4 years instead, which you initially claimed was the more probable thing that occurred and is what I should have assumed if I didn't have a "grouse" with the club.

Firstly, the majority of player agents (especially those representing players in top leagues) do not make most of their income from transfer fees as most of the public believes. Its a notion that the press has encouraged, but it hasn't been true for quite a while. Player agents are paid a % of the salaries they negotiate for their clients, capped at 3-5% currently, but as high as 10% pre 2023. Agents who earn from transfer fees, are either agents acting on behalf of the buying club (capped at 3-7% of wages currently) or agents acting on behalf of the selling club (capped at 10% of fee currently). So to make it clear, in a typical transfer that involves two clubs and a player, all 3 parties can have agents representing them.

Now a big reason why this notion of agents pushing clients to seek for transfers exists is because we have had a few high profile cases where a player's agent also acts as the agent for either the buying club or the selling club. In fact we have had cases where a player's agent acts for all 3, and is pretty much where the greed in the system is exposed. Anyway, FIFA has rules put in place since 2023, which does not allow for this to happen anymore and a player's agent can only act for 2 parties. Though this rule was enforced in October 2023, FIFA had since announced it by 2022 after a few scandalous transfers, especially those linked to one super agent in particular, Mino Raiola, whose agency executed the Pogba and Haaland transfers. The greedy fucker also happened to be the president of agents association called the Football Forum.

So going back to Saliba, his agent at that time and till now is Djibril Niang and he isn't even close to what you will call a super agent. Tranfermarkt suggests that the talent he manages is valued at €110m, with Saliba accounting for €80m of that total. So clearly, Saliba is his cash cow and he will want to ensure the income he gets from Saliba is protected for as long as possible.

Like I pointed out, he gets paid as long as Saliba earns a salary. He gets paid more every time Saliba gets a salary increase. Now note, with the examples I gave of Gomez who has been at Liverpool for almost 10 years, yet has signed 4 contracts of 5 year lengths; or Haaland, who has been at City for less than 3 years but has signed 2 contracts totalling 16 years; it is clear that getting a salary increase is not dependent on the length of your contract or moving to another club, but how well a player performs. It is also clear that longer contracts with good terms benefit agents because if for any reason there is a drop in their player's performance or he is injured long term, the club cannot reduce the salary and both the agent's and player's income are safe. However, signing a shorter contract and loss of form/injuries/relevance occurring, would definitely lead to a club offering less wages in a new contract that's if they even bother to offer one at all... and if you insist on examples, I can definitely give.

So once again, for a top footballer earning top wages, the longer the contract the better. The same for his agent as it does not preclude the player from earning a bigger contract and definitely does not stop him from enjoying a big money transfer as no length of contract will stop a top player from moving to a top club of his choice as the Mbappe debacle showed and PSG learnt the hard way.

Now finally to buttress the point on longer contracts being preferred, I mentioned how Haaland's initial transfer to Citeh was seen as a bit scandalous. His agent at that time, Rafaela Pimenta and his father made a rumoured €40m by doing what I mentioned earlier and acting as agents for the various parties. His dad's relationship with Citeh was one of the reasons why this was possible but immediately after that transfer FIFA announced they were stepping in. Now, till today, Haaland is still represented by Rafaela's agency and she was the first one to let it slip as far back as 2023 that both her and Citeh were working on something to ensure Halaand's proper value of €1 billion would be reflected. So, I ask, is not strange, or should I say illogical, that someone who made a killing from moving her client to another club just a few years ago would allow the world's hottest striker to sign a contract that sounds a bit like modern-day slavery @ 10 years, with previous buy-out clauses frozen (until after 5 years) which was the loophole she exploited so successfully @ Dortmund. Is it logical that she had been working with Citeh on this for more than a year?

While you can keep up with your view that our suits offered him 5 years or more and his agent rejected it, asking me to accept it as more logical/probable is tantamount to saying I should accept the proverbial saying "a bird in hand..." was built on a fallacy. Maybe I could, but definitely not with responses like above.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’m quite impressed at the level you’ve gone to defend what is essentially you throwing a Paddy (like you always do). Unfortunately none of the examples you give are Germane to the situation

I’ve scanned read your missive, and in my last reply I tried to give you an off ramp but seems you don’t want to take it

What details do you know about the leaked contract negotiations for Salah, do you know what the exact sticking points are?

Or do you know that contract talks have hit an impasse (and usually when contract talks are leaked it’s done deliberately by one party or the other to gain leverage)

Yes agents get a pay day when their clients get a salary bump, they get an even bigger one when their clients get a nice big move to a new club with all the add ons and clauses that come with it.

The difference between us my Teddy chucking friend is only one of us is trying to claim they know what happened, because as I’ve said you’re in a frame of mind where you want to frame everything the club does in the worst possible light.

I don’t know that the club offered him five years or more, but I also don’t know that they didn’t. And more importantly neither do you.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I’m quite impressed at the level you’ve gone to defend what is essentially you throwing a Paddy (like you always do). Unfortunately none of the examples you give are Germane to the situation

I’ve scanned read your missive, and in my last reply I tried to give you an off ramp but seems you don’t want to take it

What details do you know about the leaked contract negotiations for Salah, do you know what the exact sticking points are?

Or do you know that contract talks have hit an impasse (and usually when contract talks are leaked it’s done deliberately by one party or the other to gain leverage)

Yes agents get a pay day when their clients get a salary bump, they get an even bigger one when their clients get a nice big move to a new club with all the add ons and clauses that come with it.

The difference between us my Teddy chucking friend is only one of us is trying to claim they know what happened, because as I’ve said you’re in a frame of mind where you want to frame everything the club does in the worst possible light.

I don’t know that the club offered him five years or more, but I also don’t know that they didn’t. And more importantly neither do you.

Deflection and more deflection.... we are use to it as you've always struggled to own your need to stay entrenched in whatever silly or illogical point you've made when you've been found wanting.

Like I said, it was against my better judgement to explain how transfers work to you and how his agent cannot gain directly from the transfer fee anymore while being his agent, but I am a sucker for believing people can improve themselves, but I always forget the part that they need to want to do so themselves.

But its all good, I'll go and throw darts at my Arteta poster now, that's if you'll let me.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You must have been great fun as a child

You throw a tantrum, your parents ask you if it’s entirely necessary for you to have a meltdown, you are so affronted at being accused of throwing a tantrum you get into a pointless back and forth with them about how your reaction was merited

Oh well I tried to engage with you like you were an adult. Yeah you go do that

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I'm not being funny, I'm actually throwing darts at him.

Would have sent you a picture but i'm guessing it might be used as evidence as some sort of hate crime or so...

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm not being funny, I'm actually throwing darts at him.

Would have sent you a picture but i'm guessing it might be used as evidence as some sort of hate crime or so...

Oh I didn’t question whether you were being serious

Having a picture of him on your Darts board is exactly the kind of thing I would expect of you

Is the Darts board situated next to your framed photo of John Terry holding the champions league trophy aloft wearing the Chelsea kit even though he didn’t play any part in the final? :haha:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

One of my best relationships was a chav, probably why I've got a bit of a soft spot for them.

She also had a hamster which she named Lampie...poor bugger, fat and overfed, though always managed to pop up in the funniest of spaces though....

[HCZ_Reborn]

One of my best relationships was a chav, probably why I've got a bit of a soft spot for them.

She also had a hamster which she named Lampie...poor bugger, fat and overfed, though always managed to pop up in the funniest of spaces though....

Say no more :upset::sick:

[Niall_Quinn]

One of my best relationships was a chav, probably why I've got a bit of a soft spot for them.

She also had a hamster which she named Lampie...poor bugger, fat and overfed, though always managed to pop up in the funniest of spaces though....

Couldn't you convince her to go on a diet?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Am I the only person who doesn't want Isak and knows full well we won't get him no matter how much money we offer?

I wouldn't say I don't want Isak (at least it would really piss off the Geordies) but I definitely wouldn't spend 200m or anything close to that on a striker, especially since we are just another version of Citeh and we've seen how Haaland has been neutered a bit this season.

We're not that bad that any decent striker below 80m wouldn't do a good enough job. TBH I think we should try and buy 2 strikers anyway.

I also still think we need to worry about a proper alternative to Odegaard (thats if this stubborn coach is still in charge and continues to not see Nwanerri as that option) and someone on the left who is obviously better than Trossard & Martnelli.

But lets see.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Couldn't you convince her to go on a diet?

:lol:

[IBK]

I wouldn't say I don't want Isak (at least it would really piss off the Geordies) but I definitely wouldn't spend 200m or anything close to that on a striker, especially since we are just another version of Citeh and we've seen how Haaland has been neutered a bit this season.

We're not that bad that any decent striker below 80m wouldn't do a good enough job. TBH I think we should try and buy 2 strikers anyway.

I also still think we need to worry about a proper alternative to Odegaard (thats if this stubborn coach is still in charge and continues to not see Nwanerri as that option) and someone on the left who is obviously better than Trossard & Martnelli.

But lets see.

I think I agree with you. If we bought 2 'lesser' strikers who can give us 15 goals a season, I'd prefer this to breaking the bank for an Isak or similar in his price bracket.

We won't though. We will go for a 'lesser' striker and a winger and that will be our lot in the Summer. :oldboy:

The irony with Arteta is that he let ESR and Vieira go supposedly to give Nwaneri a chance as Odegard's understudy. The further irony is that we can't even try to develop Nwaneri as an 8 because we have noone else to play 7.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think I agree with you. If we bought 2 'lesser' strikers who can give us 15 goals a season, I'd prefer this to breaking the bank for an Isak or similar in his price bracket.

We won't though. We will go for a 'lesser' striker and a winger and that will be our lot in the Summer. :oldboy:

The irony with Arteta is that he let ESR and Vieira go supposedly to give Nwaneri a chance as Odegard's understudy. The further irony is that we can't even try to develop Nwaneri as an 8 because we have noone else to play 7.

It's worse than you think. Talk now is we should let Saliba go so we can fund a big name striker. Music to the Kroenkes. That would be so Arsenal. Fix the defence while the attack goes to shit. Fix the attack by gutting the defence. Apparently White can play there. Also, supposedly, it will be very hard to say no if somebody comes in with a big bid for Saliba. Nobody has explained why that's the case, it's just the latest common wisdom I suppose.