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Hebert – Last season you were saying we didn’t have the funds to buy a striker and bulk up the squad in the January because we had spent all our money on Ozil. This year the excuse for Wenger is the Board hanging him out to dry and he’s doing them a ‘favour’ by signing an extension. Really? We’re supposed to feel sorry for him as if he’s being forced to do this ‘shitty job’? I’ve heard it all. Excuse after excuse.
Gazidis has removed himself from the spotlight. Wenger's used the 'financial restriction' argument for yeas and that had placed Gazidis directly in the crosshair of angry fans. Now, since he's done the new sponsorship deals and made it very public, there can be no more excuses from Wenger. The financial part of the game is Ivan's domain and he's delivering. The backroom staff, the injury problems, he's hired new blood so Wenger can't say we're not doing enough to support him in that area either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
The board would often tell the fans Wenger had a 'war chest' and they'd look like complete tools when another window would pass without us spending. The assumption always was that they were holding funds back and poor poor old Wenger was powerless. Now look at last season and this season in particular and it says a lot. We have money and he's chosen not to spend in the right areas. Again. Even if he did spend, he has no idea how to rotate a squad and make use of what he has.
Gazdis has always said we don't restrict the manager and we have obvious limitations but do what we can to help. I believe that because why in the world would they risk pissing off their golden goose?
My comment was purely based on someone saying he will need to be pushed because he won't jumpQuote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
My point is in his own deluded mind he is doing everyone a favour and not leaving us in the lurch, my point is that I don't think it would take much as people might think for him to go
It's not a case of not blaming Wenger, I'm just saying the main reason he is still here is that I believe Gazidis convinced him to stay, the board are 100% happy with him and
When Wenger goes they are still here with their questionable motives and judgement
I don't feel the slightest bit of sympathy for Wenger, but his attitude in press conferences seems to indicate a man that wouldn't need prising away
They are our direct rivals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Look I can accept that we have been financially handicapped in the past, not anymore. I accept that City & Chelsea have bigger budgets than us, what I dont accept is our manager continually neglecting areas of the team/squad. He literally had no excuses this summer not to strenghten the necessary problem positions. At the very least he should be making the requisite tactical changes to address the deficiences. The collapse like last night was all too common, wenger builds team that collapse like this. I dont even think he should be given time, things are not going to change with him in charge, his approach is too flawed.
I still can't understand why he's not playing Chambers at CB and giving Bellerin a run at RB or at least Coquelin or Flamini if he wants some sort of experience there. At least they've actually played in the position.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
Monreal doesn't even have the stature to play CB and has never played there before joining us. It makes no sense but it's the type of thing he does all the time.
Apart from City and Chelsea I'd ask which teams in the summer addressed the deficiencies in their squadQuote:
Originally Posted by selassie
It's not saying Wenger hasn't blundered because he has, unfortunately I believe in order to get the balanced squad we have been crying out for you need to have a budget like Chelsea or Man City
The decision to send Jenkinson on loan seems an incredibly strange oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Fair enough if you were going to make more defensive signings but we didnt
I'd rather see Chambers at centre back than at right back as well, but nothing I've seen of Bellerin makes me confident of him at right back.
Mertesacker also needs to be dropped but we can't do it.
He does it because he thinks he can get away with it and afterwards people will be praising his genius at getting by again without spending. He sees what Barcelona have done to some extent with Mascherano and thinks...Hey i can do that too. Firstly Mascherano is a supremely talented player but even he has his limitations there, secondly Barca are a much better team allround than us. Mascherano only gets found out when Barca play the best teams because Messi and co will blitz most teams to the point of rendering defence superfluous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
But most importantly it is an unnecessary complication of a simple solution. He needed a new defender to replace the experienced Vermaelen, but didnt buy one, only Chambers who he has played mostly at RB. Even Hayden would be better than Monreal at this time, give him the experience but better still buy a good enough 25 year old. There are plenty enough out there without having to list names. I seriously believe we missed a trick not buying Diame who left West ham for a pittance. He has all the attributes to play anywhere in midfield. but no. He wants to make sure his favourites play and play ALL the time. This is the same manager who will trot out excuses like tiredness. WTF!. You play the same 11 in literally every game and you claim they could be tired. I will not be surprised if he doesnt buy a defender in January, especially if Koscielny comes back. He will then conclude that a new defender isnt needed.
Seriously???. You need a billionaire before you can buy someone like Reid from W-ham or Caulker. Please if you accept that he's messed up stop finding excuses for him, especially ones that have little merit. Our 2 central defenders played at the WC, had little or no rest before this season and he still wouldn't buy a replacement for Vermaelen. You dont have to spend 30m in every position to have a great team. Teams on 1/5 of our budget have given Chelsea harder games than we ever could.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
It's a poor excuse. I could accept that argument if we looked comfortable dealing with the smaller teams but always came unstuck against our big spending rivals. But yesterday's result isn't even a shock anymore. It happens far top often and we'll struggle against any team that has a well thought out game plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Around the Cesc era, we had a season or two where we'd beat or put up a serious good fight against the big spenders but were very complacent against the lower league teams, so I don't think it's just a case of money. Even if Wenger had billions to spend in the window, he's spend it on the wrong sort of players, play them out of position or leave really good players on the bench until there is an all out mutiny. He'd never be able to cope with the sort of egos our rivals have to
cope with.
Its always one or the other with this team, isnt it? When we play very well at home, we have a horrible away record and vice versa. When we have a good record against the big teams, we fail against the smaller teams or vice versa. The last time we were consistent was possibly 2005! And Wenger will always throw some random stat to show we did well and the supporters will lap it up like Jesus's words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Bottom line is that we are not successful, neither do we play good football. So why are we sticking with this manager? He does not provide entertainment or success.. just generic excuses every season. Tired of him.
Just praying to Allah that the board grows some cojones!
I'm confused, I think it's atrocious that we didnt sign a defender, if it was a money issue I think we should have signed a defender instead of Welbeck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
I simply asked you other than man city or Chelsea who has a completely balanced squad
In order to challenge for the title, we need two defenders, at least one world class defensive midfielder and a world class striker
Wenger has massively blundered in not sorting out our defence, but my point Is we weren't going to win the title anyway and fortunately Liverpool and United are so shit that his blundering won't cost us too badly
Unfortunately Arsenal are averse to rash decisions, if they are interested in a player they examine it from all possible angles then do it two or three times again. Having reached a decision the player has signed for another club.
Pretty muchQuote:
Originally Posted by rodders
I don't know, all I care about is Arsenal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Herbert, quit with this nonsense that you need billions to build balanced squads. We have 2 Senior Central Defenders, that's right 2! We sold our other Senior Central Defender and failed to replace him.
We haven't had a DM for years. Until we signed Welbeck we had Giroud and Sanogo as our First team Strikers. Wenger dithered for 3 seasons regarding buying a striker.
Wenger has wrecked the squad and loaded it with Attacking Midfielders, he's obsessed with them and buys Attacking Midfielders every single season. Our squad is woefully inbalanced and it has nothing to do with Money.
The issue in many other squads is not one of balance it is more to do with quality and that is more prevalent the lower you go down. City and Chelsea are the only two who have the balance AND the quality. There's absolutely no reason why Manure couldn't have had the balance it looks like they need with the amount they spent and Liverpool are pretty balanced but are just behind on quality now. Suarez left and his replacements aren't as good as his shadow and captain Fantastic is getting on a little.
No one is irreplaceable . If you can find a better manager to fill the gap , it is yes . But if it is a change just for the sake of it then , it is a no . Better the devil you know than the angel you don't , they say .
Is he still here?
Who, SWAYR?
Yeah :(
:lol:
Good one.
Plenty of Wenger backers use the 'If the neighbor dont have it and we dont have it, then we are good' excuses. We pay the highest ticket prices in Britain and we still have to pray that some other team fucks up. This season it is Chelsea and City, last season it was just City, the season before it was Utd and City, the season before it was someone else... never us! Our club is a sham right now.. right from the manager to his buddies in the boardroom.. they are fleecing the fans, and most of them are happily getting fleeced!! The more I think about it, the problem is not the board or the manager, it is the fans! Most of them can be fed anything and they will just happily 'take it'- typical middle class mentality.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
Me neither.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Oh I totally agree regarding Monreal, I actually thought Wenger was joking in pre-season when he stated Monreal could play there, I thought he was just saying it to deflect the attention away from him not buying a CB.
I am guessing we have no prospects coming through at CB otherwise they should have seen some kind of action or at least been on the bench.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
Totally agree.
Who are the Wenger backers? We are pretty much all on the same page right now in that we need to move on from Wenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
But it is possible to have that view and also think he's not the biggest c*** on Earth, not a bumbling idiot ™, not the most incompetent manager in football history and that not everything he does is ridiculous and incompetent.
There is NEVER a middle ground on here. I will defend him against some of the more extreme slating posted on here as I think it's way over the top.
That doesn't mean I think he's the best manager in world history (I do think he's the best manager in Arsenal history though) and should definitely stay at Arsenal forever and that when he dies I think he should be stuffed and remain manager (add your own joke about how we'd do better then)
It's also possible to think that Wenger should move on but that we shouldn't panic, sack him immediately and get any idiot in as pretty much anyone would do better.
That clearly isn't true. 6 months ago we won the cup and finished with our most points since 2008. Then we seemed to be buying well in the summer.
And yet it's all falling apart this year, we're all over the shop.
That said, for all our wobbling we're hardly in a crisis. We're still in the top 4. God alone knows how, everyone bar Chelsea seem to be awful this year.
We're only 3 points off City who have far more resources than us and despite Tuesday's embarrassment we'll almost certainly progress from our group, City still may but they're bottom of their group right now and haven't won a single CL game.
I think we'll finish top 4 this year and with the new financial deals in place we're in great shape for any other manager to take over. I think all the 'Wenger backers' are saying is that transition to a new manager needs to be managed carefully, especially having had a manager for so long - ManYoo are in a mess and their desperate attempts to buy their way out of trouble hasn't yielded results yet, although it may. We're not about to be relegated, we're still in the CL and will probably qualify again next year, we'll be able to pay a new manager very well. We're a very high profile side and will be an attractive proposition for most managers. We can afford to take our time and get it right.
You've moved on to a page most of us were on years ago. The trouble is your page is now one where Wenger should stay coz he's not that bad & we don't know who can replace him. My page is that he should never have been offered a new contract & he should have been replaced asap. He is NOT the biggest C*** on earth but he is becoming one, he was never a bumbling idiot but he is becoming one & he was never the most incompetent manager in history but he's trying bloody hard to get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
There are simply no positives to him anymore, there is not a job in the world that you do better at 65 than you did at 55 - the arrogant trait that served him so well in the early years is now his biggest problem, won't buy quality to replace the obvious dross, still thinks you can challenge by bargain buying, doesn't have a plan B & is tactically a million miles away from what we need. He's comments mean nothing to me anymore because he doesn't talk sense, he talks in a guarded, paranoid manner which suggest a man who now knows he's fucked up for years & he is unable to do anything about it.
No, it isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
Ok - We get the chance to take Paul Clements from Madrid next month & Wenger has agreed to a move upstairs to oversee other issues for a couple of years to see out his contract. Do we do it or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Paul Clement would be quite an interesting move, very left field. Not sure I'd like someone cutting their teeth with us though.
I do wonder if the fact he's English and working abroad is the only reason why he's been spoken about in high regard.
I have literally no idea who that is. Sorry, I really don't follow football that closely.
As a general principle though I'd be wary of changing managers mid-season.
You don't follow football that closely! - then I must apologise for some of my sarcastic responses to you in the past - should have realised that your views on the Mighty Wenger could only come from someone who's football knowledge was somewhat limited.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
So, your general principle would be to NOT get rid of Wenger at the moment which I suggest equates to you wanting Wenger to stay - therefore you are not on the same page as most of us. How many more years do you want to waste?
Well no, those two things aren't the same. I don't want Wenger to stay, but I don't want us to do something which puts us in a worse position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
To pick up fakeyank's (not very good, IMO) analogy of someone in an abusive relationship, you might want to get out of said relationship but extricating yourself may not be simple, if it's a long relationship, and you don't want to do so on a way which leaves you in a worse position.
If you want Wenger to be gone NOW with no plan as to who to replace him with, so basically have a caretaker manager, then no we're not on the same page.
IMO that would put us in a worse position, at least in the short term, so I can't see any sense in it.
I'll ignore your childish first sentence...
Hmmm interesting propositionQuote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
I've read things about Paul Clement that make me think he'd suit us very well, but there is an air of uncertainty over a man who has never taken the reigns himself at club level
Basically I think this season is a write off anyway, if we wanted someone like Clement to replace Wenger I still think it'd be better to wait until the end of the season instead of chucking him in at the deep end.
IMO whoever replaces Wenger has to see our obvious weaknesses & will have to address them. Even if Bouldy took over for the rest of the season he would have to strengthen us in Jan whereas I'm not sure Wenger will. With the quality already in the team strengthening us defensively inc a proper DM can only result in more points. Our football may change, become less tippy-tappy & more direct but again I think this would be good for us. IMO this would give us more chance of a top 4 finish than leaving Wenger to do fuck all in Jan to sort us out defensively & continue to shit himself against the big clubs & drop points to the pubbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We should all know by now that every season Wenger is in charge is a write-off. We cannot progress under this man, i'm not interested in the fact that he finally won us a trophy last year - when it comes to the titles we're actually interested in we simply don't have the quality or tactics to compete.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
I differ from you on the issue of putting a new guy in at the end of the year. If we are writing this season off already, which I do agree with, why would it be a problem. The worst that could happen is that his new style etc takes time to kick in & we may well lose out on a C.L. place, but this could happen under Wenger anyway. If a C.L. place means Wenger staying another year then its hardly worth being in it anyway.
If the new guy was given 5 months to bed in it would mean the transition had started, he could spend pre-season signing the players he needs, he would already have a squad used to his style of play & wouldn't then be starting a new season as a novice.
Apart from last season.Quote:
We should all know by now that every season Wenger is in charge is a write-off.
Why - because we won the FA Cup, pubing through the semi's & final, proudly taking over as holders from the mighty Wigan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
*sigh*Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
I went through this with someone else the other day but, in brief, the mighty Wigan beat City in the final which was a shock result.
And Portsmouth won it one time (vs Millwall, wasn't it?) in a freak season when none of the top sides made it to the final.
Every other year in recent memory it's been a top side winning it. Of course the nature of the cup, any cup, is that shock results can happen on the day which doesn't guarantee a top side winning it but in the last 20 years those are the only 2 notable exceptions to the rule that it always has been.
And we did play 3 of the top 6 on the way to the semi-final. All at home, granted, but we earned our place.
You can't beat Wenger with the stick of not winning trophies and then dismiss it when we do win one.
:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Hoisted on my own petard :(