We need a new manager. We can’t get into this captain debate again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
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We need a new manager. We can’t get into this captain debate again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We do need a new manager, but I think with a strong captain we'd be challenging.
It's the manager for sure. But we've got some players that shouldn't need much talking to.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
If NQ honestly believes Ozil is slacking off in training and taken a sickie to get his Christmas break, then you have to question the player. Bergkamp and Henry wouldn't pull such a stunt in the middle of title race. It's not on.
"If" though. Who knows? What's the point in hammering a player for something you're just speculating about?
I said I don't believe he's been in bed for 2 weeks. I don't necessarily think he's slacking off. This could be a sneaky Winter break engineered by Wenger himself. This could be a little sulk maybe as a result of the contract negotiations. It could be anything. Except the flu.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
You've misread. That doesn't apply to you. I said if NQ honestly believes he's slacked off. I'm not speculating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I mean it was a landmark moment where we officially crossed from being a football club to being a for profit corporation and started operating as such. Sustainability, property deals, whoring out the team across the globe and then moaning about players being tired. The club became geared to money when we rented it out to the arabs and the football became secondary - not irrelevant, but secondary. Sponsors don't pour their money in because they are charitable. They want the name of the club and the time of the staff and players. It's all a bit seedy really, but the champagne and decked out jets disguise it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
What a ridiculously farcical post. What have we been challenging for? Last time we challenged for the title was some 12 going on 13 seasons ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
Furthermore, Mancs were winning titles; we haven't, so quite disingenuous drawing such a contrast.
Ozil has found paradise here. He knows he won't be molly cuddled at any top club the way he is here. Ffs he was offloaded by one not too long ago. He gets to pull his houdini acts against top opposition without being castigated by the manager. However he'll turn up against the dross where he looks sublime. He epitomises modern Arsenal under Wenger. A poster boy for a flat track bully club really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
It has precious little to do with top players wanting to play for the old fraud and you know it.
We hear a lot about managers losing the dressing room and not having the players' respect but its obviously not the case with Wenger. The biggest players at the club obviously still see him as a key figure and its a dilema for the board. You either keep the over the hill manager AND your best players or risk losing all and starting from scratch. Im all for change and a fresh start under a new manager but if we were to lose Wenger and Sanchez/Ozil and potentlially others then it would take usa few years to start challenging again (see Man u last 4 years).
Since Fergie left, United have won one Fa cup, we have won two FA cups. We have qualified for the CL two times more than them, then been knocked out in the first round of knock-out stages , they got to the qf once. There's hardly much difference in achievements really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özil's Panoramic View
They also want clubs that win things, so they can festoon that allover their corporate merchandiseQuote:
Originally Posted by Cripps
Emirates for example would love to shove on their British aircrafts - sponsors of the English Premier league champions
Like they have presumably done with PSG and Real Madrid when they've won big things
We've got plenty of experienced players that were captains and leaders for former clubs and country. From keeper to up front. It's nothing to do with who is captain. It's the culture allowed to fester at the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I do think a strong captain helps though. At least you have someone on the pitch to rally the troops. However, we do need a new manager.
It's definitely not the sponsors that's a problem. Wenger has hid behind a lack of funding for years, be it the stadium capacity or the small sponsorship deals. Deflecting attention and pressure away from himself so his short comings aren't exposed. He's the only one that has delivered on what was originally sold to the fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
You can see Sanchez screaming his guts out each game for players to put a shift in. We've seen Merts walk over to Ozil screaming at him for walking off the pitch without thanking the fans. The players still do the same each week. Cech seems like a leader. Xhaka was captain of his former club. But check out this story. Wenger is telling Xhaka to tone done the aggression and have some discipline but Xhaka is in the press saying he won't change his style of play. These guys walk all over Wenger. He has to set the tone for what's acceptable and what's not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goonermerree
Bang on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
They look absolutely clueless in a great deal of matches, as they're told to go out and do the same old shit again and again, and if it doesn't work, they're hung out to dry awaiting a 69th minute sub.
Captains kick arse if they have a plan that some players aren't carrying out properly. They can have a word, or lead by example.
Plan? There ain't no plan.
It's a weird one, isn't it? Even some of the total c*nts we've had at this club in Wengers tenure. The Fabregas's, the Gallas's, the RvC's the c*ntley Cole's. None of them have laid a parting shot on Wenger. It's like he's obsessed with not being exposed to public humiliation much to the detriment of our own club. "OK, you can leave, but please don't make too much of a fuss, son"Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
It's probably what sets him apart from Ferguson. Stam, Keane, Ince, Sharpe. They've all had a pop at whiskey breath after they've left. It only made him stronger.
What a ridiculously farcical reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özil's Panoramic View
We have been challenging (last year this time we were top if i remember correctly) but obviously bottled it when it got to February/March. Man u finished 7th, 5th etc over the last few years so obviously they have underachieved considering the money they spent.
Anyway my point was that it would take a few years for us to get our shit together. When you have the same manager for 20 odd years, it takes time to replace them and reorganize the structure of the club. If a massive club like Man u struggle, then so would we.
We may find it will take us some time to rebuild after Wenger but that’s only if we appoint the wrong manager. I think the problems at Utd and the replacing Fergie thing have been overblown. They’re struggling because they’ve picked poor managers. I wouldn’t say it’s down to having to replacing a manager that’s been at the helm for over 20 years. They picked David Moyes as Fergie’s successor which was an awful choice. Zero credentials to suggest he was up for that job but they picked him anyway. If they would have went with Mourinho, Conte, Klopp or Pep as soon as Fergie retired they wouldn’t be in such a bad position.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
Also, we have to look at the flipside. We’ve seen managers come in and transform a club after a complete disasters. Look how Conte’s appointment has totally transformed Chelsea after a complete disaster of a season last year. Poch and Klopp have got Spurs and Liverpool looking like contenders for once. It’s about making the right appointment. We have the money to compete and we’ve seen how quickly Chelsea and City won the titles but they only won after appointing managers with experience of winning the league.
Simeone would be a great manager for us. He is a modern manager who would bring a lot of lost qualities to the club. Great motivator, tactician, winner etc he ticks all the boxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
However one of the main problems we have with Wenger is that the football is terrible to watch, and i don't see any reason to replace him with someone who gets his teams playing even more turgid football than we do. I have no doubt he is a good tactician and a good motivator, but the football is awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
We missed the trick by not bringing in Klopp, i think we want someone as similar as possible to him.
My thoughts too. We need the culture at the club to change, we need someone who is pragmatic, who values the results of the team and winning above everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
This is not to say we need someone like Mourinho who is a complete c*nt, but we do need someone who is a lot more pragmatic and less principled than Wenger.
I think whoever we hire will not be given the same freedom or time as Wenger so they will and should be judged on a "results" only basis.
I can't believe we let Liverpool get Klopp. Conte seems decent too. But I wouldn't mind Simeone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
I think Wenger will probably go upstairs when he calls it a day as manager. Someone of his experience and knowledge of the club will be let go easily by the board. Its common knowledge that the board lack football men and i think they will hire him as a director of football.
Good grief no! It would be totally hypercritical of Wenger to accept such a role. He's been against such roles in the past and wouldn't accept the same working conditions for himself.
dont get me wrong i want him gona full stop but i get the feeling that the board rely on him too much to ab able to get rid of him after 20 odd years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
That would be my worst fear. He'd be a nightmare. Contract talks and transfers would drag on for ages.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...e-Souness.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Ernesto
I think he has a point. Especially that last part.Quote:
"It amazes me that you never hear of his former players criticising him [Wenger].
"It's impossible to be a manager and not fall out with players, for the simple reason that they are young men with enormous egos. Maybe his players don't have a bad word to say about him because he never falls out with them.
"If you can sit on the bench, as manager of Arsenal, and allow Danny Welbeck to be as positionally indisicplined as he was on Wednesday [against Monaco], you either don't see it or you are not prepared to stand up and shout: 'Get out here'."
Well a broken clock is right twice a day and using that same logic, over a long enough timescale Souness must say enough things that one of them will make sense.
Although going to add a massive caveat, although i agree with Souness and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that Wenger is totally non-confrontational with his players....1) there are players who have played under Wenger who aren't exactly flattering about him like Gervinho (although in his case that was to do with Wenger's mystifying lack of faith in him :lol:) 2) To date i am unaware of any players who have played under Mourinho going public about having fallen out with him, in fact a lot of players are very complimentary of the little sociopath and we know that he has no such qualms about giving stick to his under performing players
So basically whilst i agree with Souness' conclusion, i think the logic he has based his conclusion on is something of a fallacy.
Mourinho has fallen out with plenty of players and some have gone public.
I don't recall many players falling out with Wenger but I recall Dennis saying they'd argue a lot about the amount of games played when he was edging to retirement. Wenger would produce stats all the time about the amount of ground he covered to show he was slowing down and that would drive Bergkamp mental. He'd reply back by asking if the stats show the key passes he made during the game.
Apparently Wiltord and Wenger almost got to the point where they would engage in fisticuffs, which explains why Wiltord went through his last season with us being out with a mysterious injury.
Wiltord wasn't happy about being played on the wing so they'd argue about that. The common theme is the player being unhappy with Wenger and the player confronting the manager about it. Going back to what was being originally discussed and what Souness touched on, Wenger isn't hammering into players for the mistakes being made on the pitch. If he is barking instructions behind closed doors, they're not paying attention to him so you'd also have to question how much respect he really commands. It's a mystery. I think Souness has a point and I believe the manager is soft with his players. I think he can be brutal when he dismisses a player and drops them from the team but I don't think he's constantly on a players case when under performing. He came out to defend Ozil's work rate with stats after that poor City but even Bellerin has said Ozil is the laziest in training and he's not the first team mate to have a dig at him. Not sure why Wenger feels the need to make excuses for them. Even with the Adebayor situation he was a bit of a coward. He accused the fans of turning things sour. When sold Ade told the press that Wenger told him we needed the money and had to sell. What rubbish!
Oh i totally agree with the conclusion Souness draws, even Wenger's strongest advocates like David Dein have claimed that Wenger is totally non-confrontational which is fine in some ways as you don't want someone picking fights left, right and centre but it also means you lack the assertiveness to challenge something that clearly isn't fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I think if Wenger does stand up to his players it's usually a reactive rather than proactive measure as taken with the rows he supposedly had with Wiltord.
I just don't necessarily think Players having nothing bad to say about Wenger immediately can lead to you to that conclusion, and in Souness' case you can imagine he can't believe that no ex players have anything bad to say about a manager because so many of his ex players despise him.
My Argument (somewhat pedantic i'll concede) is Souness has come to the correct conclusion using the incorrect methodology.
Mine too. I do get the feeling he will be around in some kind of advisory/consultant role...similar to SAF is/was at United.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I don't think the board will have the balls to get shot of him completely and I don't think Wenger will completely walk away.
More than anything...it worries me that Wenger will be fully involved in the recruitment of the new guy.
##
Bye.
Yep. He's the best player in the PL and it will be impossible to replace him. Since we bought him the transfer market has got even more ridiculous and it would cost 80, 90, 100 mill to buy a like for like replacement. So if we sold him the quality of our squad would go down and stay down. What we need is a competent manager who can use Ozil in an effective system. In Wenger we are far, far away from that. Besides, if we ask about needing Ozil then Walcott, Ox, Alexis, Ramsey, Bellerin, Cech, Giroud, do we need any of them if we are going to stick with this ridiculous manager? No. We could do just as well with 11 average nobodies. Plus there's the question of prestige. If we start selling our best players again then the whole stadium thing is done. Well done for the fans anyway. As we know, the suits have all done rather well from it. But those promises of competing with the best, forget it.
This Ozil thing is pure silliness. Of course we want a player of his calibre here. Silly notions like selling him just detract from the only question that's on the table. How much longer will Wenger remain at this club. Because that gives the answer to everything else. If Wenger is determined to stay then sure, sell Ozil. What difference will it make? But if Wenger can be persuaded or forced to go then it's a whole new ball game. Sell nobody because we haven't seen any of these players in a sane system yet.
Best player in the PL? :lol: When was the last time he was the best player on the pitch?
Probably technically the most gifted, or at least one of the most....just a lazy fuck thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Great player, one of the best players in the world and an asset to any team.
However, his performances on the big games away from home always disappoint and the way he ducked out of every single fucking challenge today was infruriating.
Someone who deserves to be recognised as a game changer would have grabbed this game today and turned it around by either scoring a couple or making a real difference. He has failed to turn up today again.