Mikel Arteta Thread

:gp:

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

ok go off on one and imply what you want to satisfy whatever agenda you want to set. and im the one who should stop being sensitive yet you're the one who keeps bringing up the past :shrug:

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Don't take my initial post as an attack. Chill.

Was just saying I disagree with Arteta being a controller or the type of player we could build a midfield around like with what we did with Cesc. For example, even if we played Cesc further back, what we'd lose in physical presence, we'd still make up for in passing and possession. As Cripps was saying earlier, Pirlo is played deep and that doesn't hamper is passing/playmaking abilities.

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/4744284160/h43B54155/

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You know! :lol:

Ain't nobody got time for dat!

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Don't take my initial post as an attack. Chill.

Was just saying I disagree with Arteta being a controller or the type of player we could build a midfield around like with what we did with Cesc. For example, even if we played Cesc further back, what we'd lose in physical presence, we'd still make up for in passing and possession. As Cripps was saying earlier, Pirlo is played deep and that doesn't hamper is passing/playmaking abilities.

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once again, ive never disagreed with that :blink: you know full well my feelings on arteta so im not sure why are you trying to paint a picture that i want us to 'build a team around him' or that i rate him. those words are fabricated by you, can you link me to where i said that please or suggested it in any way whatsoever?

i said he's better next to a DM instead of being the DM. simple. why? because he's a controller instead of a destroyer. thats hardly anything to disagree with, he's hardly a destroyer is he.

as usual, you're going at 100mph into posts.

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

once again, ive never disagreed with that :blink: you know full well my feelings on arteta so im not sure why are you trying to paint a picture that i want us to 'build a team around him' or that i rate him. those words are fabricated by you, can you link me to where i said that please or suggested it in any way whatsoever?

i said he's better next to a DM instead of being the DM. simple. why? because he's a controller instead of a destroyer. thats hardly anything to disagree with, he's hardly a destroyer is he.

as usual, you're going at 100mph into posts.

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This is where I said I disagree. He's not a controller and not in the sense that if you stick a DM next to him his game will improve. I'm not sold on that because even when we had Song next to him, we weren't controlling possession very well.

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spot on.

he's a controller, not a tackler. which is why when he's played in the DM role he's average. when he's playing next to a DM he's excellent i.e. the season before last. when he's the DM and expected to throw his body about, make tackles etc, he's useless. you might not need a destroyer but you need a level of aggression to ensure the midfield isn't overpowered. with arteta you dont get that feeling.

buy a DM, stick arteta next to him and watch him flourish again. but as the kingpin of our midfield? do me a favour.

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That's your initial post and I disagree with it. He wasn't excellent last season imo and that was with Song even though Song took up the more creative role. I'm not even sure if we bought a DM that he'd even get into the team. As said with the Pirlo example, we wouldn't look so bad with possession if he was an excellent controller. None of what I'm saying is fabricated. I just don't think he'd be excellent full stop. That's you I'm quoting right? Or do you have a cousin? :lol:

Edit: Just to add to that, I get what you mean by controller. When we first bought him we thought we had a Cesc replacement and he'd play that role. But as shown, that is just not the case. I don't have a major problem with Arteta's defensive duties, even though he gets out powered sometimes. I have more of a problem with his vision and passing options. He's never cool on the ball when under pressure.

erm yes you did. you fabricated the "he's the type of player we could build a midfield around like with what we did with Cesc."

you said "i disagree with arteta being a controller or the type of player we could build a midfield around". for you to disagree with something i would have had to say it first. but i didnt say the cesc bit.

then you suggested i said "he controlled the midfield", which ive already proved i didnt.

and also, you said "It's not just him but if we're saying we're playing him out of position to have more possession but we sacrifice a combative midfield for him... i say it's not working out" once again, i proved i didnt say that.

so thats 3 things you made up. but you didnt fabricate anything did you :console:

and anyway, how would you describe arteta in one word then? i think its pretty obvious to every normal fan that he's a controller instead of a destroyer.

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

erm yes you did. you fabricated the "he's the type of player we could build a midfield around like with what we did with Cesc."

you said "i disagree with arteta being a controller or the type of player we could build a midfield around". for you to disagree with something i would have had to say it first. but i didnt say the cesc bit.

then you suggested i said "he controlled the midfield", which ive already proved i didnt.

and also, you said "It's not just him but if we're saying we're playing him out of position to have more possession but we sacrifice a combative midfield for him... i say it's not working out" once again, i proved i didnt say that.

so thats 3 things you made up. but you didnt fabricate anything did you :console:

and anyway, how would you describe arteta in one word then? i think its pretty obvious to every normal fan that he's a controller instead of a destroyer.

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Define what you mean by controller?

You do know parts of what I've said in there about Cesc are my own thoughts or how I'd define a controller or his function in our squad, right?

He's not a DM that's obvious, but some of his passing options and the way he looks under pressure....I wouldn't say he's be excellent next to a DM either. It's why he hasn't been picked for Spain.

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then you suggested i said "he controlled the midfield", which ive already proved i didnt.

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Proved what? What the heck are you saying if he's a controller but can't control the midfield? :lol: What the hecks the function of a controller then? Be clear.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Define what you mean by controller?

You do know parts of what I've said in there about Cesc are my own thoughts or how I'd define a controller or his function in our squad, right?

He's not a DM that's obvious, but some of his passing options and the way he looks under pressure....I wouldn't say he's be excellent next to a DM either. It's why he hasn't been picked for Spain.

Proved what? What the heck are you saying if he's a controller but can't control the midfield? :lol: What the hecks the function of a controller then? Be clear.

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erm dont avoid the question, describe him in one word?

being a controller and controlling the midfield are two different things. one player cannot control a whole midfield if he's playing with fools in an unbalanced team.

i never said he was excellent next to a DM either, i said he's better there. i still think he's pretty average as everyone knows.

in terms of keeping possession, accurate passing and holding the ball he's decent. in that sense he's a controller. he drops deep to the defence and collects the ball off mertesacker so controls the play. by doing that, he allows the liberation of the other midfield players by covering the gaps that appear with intelligent movement and passing. when he play next to a DM it allows him to be more expressive, hence why i think he needs to play with one instead of being one.

http://youtu.be/kQFKtI6gn9Y

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

http://youtu.be/kQFKtI6gn9Y

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:lol:

Thank you!

But back on topic. I'm on a roll. :lol:

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erm dont avoid the question, describe him in one word?

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Average!

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i never said he was excellent next to a DM either, i said he's better there. i still think he's pretty average as everyone knows.

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spot on.

he's a controller, not a tackler. which is why when he's played in the DM role he's average. when he's playing next to a DM he's excellent i.e. the season before last. when he's the DM and expected to throw his body about, make tackles etc, he's useless. you might not need a destroyer but you need a level of aggression to ensure the midfield isn't overpowered. with arteta you dont get that feeling.

buy a DM, stick arteta next to him and watch him flourish again. but as the kingpin of our midfield? do me a favour.

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:tiphat:

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

:lol:

Thank you!

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For what?

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Originally Posted by Steve French

For what?

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Quality Street.

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Originally Posted by Steve French

For what?

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For the link. It was funny.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

For the link. It was funny.

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No it wasn't.

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Originally Posted by Steve French

No it wasn't.

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Yes it was.

:lol:

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

But back on topic. I'm on a roll. :lol:



Average!




:tiphat:

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:lol: i suppose thats one way of copping out a debate. until next time :hug:

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

:lol: i suppose thats one way of copping out a debate. until next time :hug:

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This isn’t a good debate, my friend.

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erm dont avoid the question, describe him in one word?

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What difference do you think that will make to this discussion? Me describing him in one word won’t change the outcome. In footballing terms, I rarely come across the term ‘controller’ to define a central midfield player and it’s even more barmy to say a controller doesn’t help control the midfield. :lol: What the hecks his function then? Even by your own definition, you’re describing a player in the mould of Cesc, Xabi Alonso, Xavi….etc.

The season where we had Song and RVP, we struggled to hold possession and he wasn’t excellent which is what you said in your original post.

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i never said he was excellent next to a DM either, i said he's better there. i still think he's pretty average as everyone knows.

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Here it is.

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he's a controller, not a tackler. which is why when he's played in the DM role he's average. when he's playing next to a DM he's excellent i.e. the season before last. when he's the DM and expected to throw his body about, make tackles etc, he's useless. you might not need a destroyer but you need a level of aggression to ensure the midfield isn't overpowered. with arteta you dont get that feeling.

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I read your post properly. Can you do the same? :lol:

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in terms of keeping possession, accurate passing and holding the ball he's decent. in that sense he's a controller. he drops deep to the defence and collects the ball off mertesacker so controls the play. by doing that, he allows the liberation of the other midfield players by covering the gaps that appear with intelligent movement and passing.

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This part of his game, I don’t think he does a good job at all. Far too many times I’ve seen him avoid collecting the ball from the back and point for the Merts to pass it wide to Sagna. He’s too slow and can’t lose or turn his marker like Cesc or Song called. They’d have no problem receiving the ball in a tight space, turning and then passing it off to an open man. Hardly any safety and sideways passing from these guys, they always kept the ball moving and this is what I also love about Rosicky. Always on the half turn and knows what he’s going to do before he’s received the pass. Arteta doesn’t look half as sharp as these guys which is why I don’t rate him. But neither of us rate him highly so feck it! :lol:

I always thought Arteta was Spanish.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

This isn’t a good debate, my friend.



What difference do you think that will make to this discussion? Me describing him in one word won’t change the outcome. In footballing terms, I rarely come across the term ‘controller’ to define a central midfield player and it’s even more barmy to say a controller doesn’t help control the midfield. :lol: What the hecks his function then? Even by your own definition, you’re describing a player in the mould of Cesc, Xabi Alonso, Xavi….etc.

The season where we had Song and RVP, we struggled to hold possession and he wasn’t excellent which is what you said in your original post.


Here it is.



I read your post properly. Can you do the same? :lol:



This part of his game, I don’t think he does a good job at all. Far too many times I’ve seen him avoid collecting the ball from the back and point for the Merts to pass it wide to Sagna. He’s too slow and can’t lose or turn his marker like Cesc or Song called. They’d have no problem receiving the ball in a tight space, turning and then passing it off to an open man. Hardly any safety and sideways passing from these guys, they always kept the ball moving and this is what I also love about Rosicky. Always on the half turn and knows what he’s going to do before he’s received the pass. Arteta doesn’t look half as sharp as these guys which is why I don’t rate him. But neither of us rate him highly so feck it! :lol:

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well i want you to describe him in one bloody word because if you're going to try and pick my argument apart then at least be consistent and give me yours. what word would you describe him in?

secondly, he is a controller. he may not control the ball as well as cesc or alonso but he's a different type of player to them. for you to say he doesnt keep possession or have accurate passing is wrong and you bloody well know it. he is the ball retainer in our midfield. what he lacks is the physical aspect. what is he good at then?

the last point i agree with but there aren't too many who can receive the ball under pressure in the premier league. jack is the one that is outstanding at it and never panics; he can pick the ball up in tight spaces and still manoeuvre himself out of tricky situations. but i dont think thats a problem just with arteta, its a problem across the whole of the premier league. for someone who is being completely played out of position you have to give your hat off to him, he's trying and has never been in this position before. still think he's average as a DM but next to one, great.

Love Arteta. Proper professional who's pretty handy.

Rather him than one of these other powderpuff wage seekers.

Legend.

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Originally Posted by LDG

Love Arteta. Proper professional who's pretty handy.

Rather him than one of these other powderpuff wage seekers.

Legend.

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:gp:

Can't argue with that.

/thread

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

well i want you to describe him in one bloody word because if you're going to try and pick my argument apart then at least be consistent and give me yours. what word would you describe him in?

secondly, he is a controller. he may not control the ball as well as cesc or alonso but he's a different type of player to them. for you to say he doesnt keep possession or have accurate passing is wrong and you bloody well know it. he is the ball retainer in our midfield. what he lacks is the physical aspect. what is he good at then?

the last point i agree with but there aren't too many who can receive the ball under pressure in the premier league. jack is the one that is outstanding at it and never panics; he can pick the ball up in tight spaces and still manoeuvre himself out of tricky situations. but i dont think thats a problem just with arteta, its a problem across the whole of the premier league. for someone who is being completely played out of position you have to give your hat off to him, he's trying and has never been in this position before. still think he's average as a DM but next to one, great.

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In one word. Midfielder? :shrug:

You do realise football has come a long way from describing players in one word. Especially midfield players. Deep laying playmaker, defensive midfield, box to box, attacking midfielder…..a ‘controller’ is a term hardly ever used to describe a midfield player. If I’m comparing him to Cesc, Pirlo, Xavi, Carrick, Scholes, Rosicky, etc, shouldn’t that give you more accurate picture of the type of duty we expect him to perform? But feck it, let’s call him a ‘controller’ for arguments sake. You’re probably the only person on GW to use this term.

Your argument has been picked apart already. You’re contradicting yourself.

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for someone who is being completely played out of position you have to give your hat off to him, he's trying and has never been in this position before. still think he's average as a DM but next to one, great.

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i never said he was excellent next to a DM either, i said he's better there. i still think he's pretty average as everyone knows.

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he's a controller, not a tackler. which is why when he's played in the DM role he's average. when he's playing next to a DM he's excellent

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read posts properly before you comment and try to debate with someone who is actually agreeing with you

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The nerve :lol:

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Originally Posted by LDG

Love Arteta. Proper professional who's pretty handy.

Rather him than one of these other powderpuff wage seekers.

Legend.

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I'll give him credit for working hard at what he does. I don't rate him highly but he's been a leader in the dressing room and that shouldn't be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I'll give him credit for working hard at what he does. I don't rate him highly but he's been a leader in the dressing room and that shouldn't be ignored.

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I think if you try harder you should be able to ignore it.

Given tv5 is out for three months, and was dropped last season. I'd make arteta club captain. We've seen he is a leader past season

I would make Bendtner club captain, may be the only way to get rid of him.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I would make Bendtner club captain, may be the only way to get rid of him.

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Lol

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

I think if you try harder you should be able to ignore it.

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Is that how you manage it with Walcott? :lol:

Theo LoLcott :lol:

At least Arteta can control a football.

(I wonder how many pages of guff we can get out of this comparison)

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

In one word. Midfielder? :shrug:

You do realise football has come a long way from describing players in one word. Especially midfield players. Deep laying playmaker, defensive midfield, box to box, attacking midfielder…..a ‘controller’ is a term hardly ever used to describe a midfield player. If I’m comparing him to Cesc, Pirlo, Xavi, Carrick, Scholes, Rosicky, etc, shouldn’t that give you more accurate picture of the type of duty we expect him to perform? But feck it, let’s call him a ‘controller’ for arguments sake. You’re probably the only person on GW to use this term.

Your argument has been picked apart already. You’re contradicting yourself.








The nerve :lol:

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:haha: :haha:

so because i said he's average in the DM position but we should applaud him for giving it a go, i'm contradicting myself?

also you do realise in those quotes you posted i said pretty much the same thing :haha: :doh:

i.e.

1. he's average in DM
2. he's great next to a DM
3. he's a controller

you're the one waffling around trying to engage in long, unmeaningful paragraphs to try and mask the lack of argument you have. thrown in with a few examples of elite footballers who are quite clearly miles better than arteta so is a ridiculous comparison to begin with.

you cant seem to describe what he does. you dismiss his attributes which is evident to every normal human being. he's apparently an inaccurate passer and someone who is bad at keeping possession but you dont know what he's good at.

i said describe him in one word if he isn't a controller. you couldnt.

you have no substance to anything you're saying. it's just general waffle without a reasoned, structured argument. and the fact you're fetching for new attempts to avoid all the questions tells me your a sinking ship in the debate, and you know it :shrug:

Open this one for the public because this is boring.

Describe Arteta in one word.

Captain

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Open this one for the public because this is boring.

Describe Arteta in one word.

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Pointless

:lol:

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Originally Posted by ollie the optimist

Given tv5 is out for three months, and was dropped last season. I'd make arteta club captain. We've seen he is a leader past season

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Knowing what happens to players made captain, I'm in full agreement with the emboldened.

Spanish

oops there we go again, avoid avoid avoid :rolleyes:

Fraud_n_Glory

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Originally Posted by LDG

He's not a defensive midfielder anyway :shrug:

We haven't played with a defensive midfielder for years. And most teams with five midfielders don't either. The midfield all work to defend, be it zonally or not.

He's the pivot at the base of the trio, who lays the ball off and keeps the game moving. The role Denilson should have played, but was too lazy. You have to work fucking hard in that role, because you have to be available all of the time, and you also have to cover off gaps left by other midfielders (which is as defensive as it gets).

He's done superbly well at it.

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Yeah I agree with that, he's done a fine job. Obviously we could improve on him but some people wont be happy unless we have Sergio Busquets or Xabi Alonso :sarcy: