Wilshere out for the season.

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Originally Posted by Fist of Lehmann

This playing players until they die comes about partly because Wenger only seems to trust a small proportion of his players to play. Once Wilshere proved what could be achieved from his position, Denilson, although fit, never got a look in. We were grateful for that at the time, not so much now.

We are well into this process with Ramsey this season.

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I don't understand this sort of post. I've seen other people say it too. But elsewhere people have criticised Wenger for rotating :shrug:
Spurs haven't used that many players this season as they've been pretty lucky with injuries.
Players sometimes need a rest but overall a more consistent side is better, non?

Well. Plus, it was Jack who didn't tell anyone about the pain he had in his ankle, and wanted to keep playing.

They only knew there was a problem once it went "ping" in the Emirates Cup.

Players have a duty to let the medical team know if there's a problem....hopefully a mistake, wilshere has admitted, he won't make again.

This was a waste of money then:

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-arc...raining-ground

Watching the video the equipment looks great but the staff look and sound like a right bunch of bell ends. We need to ship over some German docs - they're famous for being pioneers in the medical field.

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Originally Posted by LDG

Well. Plus, it was Jack who didn't tell anyone about the pain he had in his ankle, and wanted to keep playing.

They only knew there was a problem once it went "ping" in the Emirates Cup.

Players have a duty to let the medical team know if there's a problem....hopefully a mistake, wilshere has admitted, he won't make again.

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They do but on this occasion Arsenal knew he is coming back from injury, if they were a little bit more circumspect then it possibly wouldn't need Wilshere to tell the truth or not.

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

They do but on this occasion Arsenal knew he is coming back from injury, if they were a little bit more circumspect then it possibly wouldn't need Wilshere to tell the truth or not.

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They surely have to rely on the players to give them some feedback though. Wilshere was obviously keen to get out there again, maybe he just over-stretched himself. The fact that Ramsey and Eduardo are playing football at all after their horrible injuries is credit to our medical team. In days of yore they'd never have played again

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

They do but on this occasion Arsenal knew he is coming back from injury, if they were a little bit more circumspect then it possibly wouldn't need Wilshere to tell the truth or not.

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Soz. Do you mean now, or in the summer?

Regarding the here and now....It is frustrating that a highly paid medical team have allowed more damage to occur...but then, who's to say the dmage wasn't already a time-bomb...stress fractures often are.

He needs more milk.

He does!

Ian Rush says :sulk:

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Originally Posted by Letters

I don't understand this sort of post. I've seen other people say it too. But elsewhere people have criticised Wenger for rotating :shrug:
Spurs haven't used that many players this season as they've been pretty lucky with injuries.
Players sometimes need a rest but overall a more consistent side is better, non?

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Well it's hardly as clear cut as, Wenger rotates too much vs Wenger rotates not enough. You won't have heard me criticise him for rotating. Wenger rotates when he feels it's necessary fitnesswise and consequently more for some players than for others. Wilshere is a case in point. Played 49 times last season, more I think than other player. This is a kid in his first full season.

Yes, a settled team is better, but the days when you could win the league with 14 players in pretty much over. And I'm an advocate of not dicking about with a winning side.

To continue to play Wilshere in meaningless games at the end of last season seems strange to me. And given his stress fracture injuries I don't think you can really argue that he wasn't overplayed.

Tottenham apparently have Walker, King, Van Der Vaart and Adebunghole out injured atm.

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Originally Posted by LDG

Soz. Do you mean now, or in the summer?

Regarding the here and now....It is frustrating that a highly paid medical team have allowed more damage to occur...but then, who's to say the dmage wasn't already a time-bomb...stress fractures often are.

He needs more milk.

He does!

Ian Rush says :sulk:

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I mean now.

If it already was a 'time-bomb' then wouldn't they know about it? That would surely have come up when he first started running again, or so I would've thought.

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Originally Posted by Letters

They surely have to rely on the players to give them some feedback though. Wilshere was obviously keen to get out there again, maybe he just over-stretched himself. The fact that Ramsey and Eduardo are playing football at all after their horrible injuries is credit to our medical team. In days of yore they'd never have played again

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Scans and more scans would surely show if his foot was in the danger zone or not. Perhaps they just weren't anticipating something like that happening. What you mention about Eduardo and Ramsey is slightly different - horrible injuries though they were (and in Eduardo's case much worse) broken bones take longer to heal (obviously) but eventually bones fuse back together stronger. In any case I don't really want to get bogged down in a compare and contrast with those players because that doesn't really preclude from the possibility of being a mismanagement in Wilshere's case.

Having said that, they are having more tests for him. Granted it could be after the fact but then, it might not be as bad as expected.

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

I mean now.

If it already was a 'time-bomb' then wouldn't they know about it? That would surely have come up when he first started running again, or so I would've thought.

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:shrug:

Dunno tbh. From arse.com, they're saying it like it's a common occurance when recovering from injuries of this type....

Maybe they couldn't prevent it, that it was a risk etc....but that if he didn't get back running and weight-bearing, we might as well just leave him to find another job.

There is something wrong at the club though. The amount of injuries we sustain is beyond a joke, no doubt about it....

Maccy should apply to be on the medical team at the club.

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Originally Posted by LDG

:shrug:

Dunno tbh. From arse.com, they're saying it like it's a common occurance when recovering from injuries of this type....

Maybe they couldn't prevent it, that it was a risk etc....but that if he didn't get back running and weight-bearing, we might as well just leave him to find another job.

There is something wrong at the club though. The amount of injuries we sustain is beyond a joke, no doubt about it....

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I'd have thought it being an ankle injury would be enough to be as cautious as possible. There's only one way you can 'stress' it and that's by doing too much. It could be that he took it upon himself to do as much training as possible, footballers have a tendency to be dim.

I think there probably is something inherently wrong with how we do things but it's also compounded with the league we play in. We haven't been able to play a first XI since 2004, it's just stupid.

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

In any case I don't really want to get bogged down in a compare and contrast with those players because that doesn't really preclude from the possibility of being a mismanagement in Wilshere's case.

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Well no, it doesn't. Just making the point that there are a couple of examples where the medical team did a pretty good job which does preclude them being a load of incompetent idiots. None of us know what's gone on with Wilshere of course or whether different medical staff would have done a better job.

There clearly is an issue with our injury record. How much of that is down to the medical staff and how much down to over-playing or the type of player Wenger tends to go for (smaller, more technical players who are perhaps more likely to get clobbered) and how much down to just plain back luck we can't really know.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Maccy should apply to be on the medical team at the club.

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non-Lewins need not apply.

Be the best.

Arsenal medical team.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Well no, it doesn't. Just making the point that there are a couple of examples where the medical team did a pretty good job which does preclude them being a load of incompetent idiots. None of us know what's gone on with Wilshere of course or whether different medical staff would have done a better job.

There clearly is an issue with our injury record. How much of that is down to the medical staff and how much down to over-playing or the type of player Wenger tends to go for (smaller, more technical players who are perhaps more likely to get clobbered) and how much down to just plain back luck we can't really know.

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Unfortunately those examples are 2008 and 2010 respectively and with (barring permanent disability) the worst injuries a footballer can get. What am I saying is, they've done well when it comes to those heightened injuries which though horrible are rare (after they've had surgery elsewhere of course) but the ones where it might be more 'common' wear and tear, it's an area we're quite possibly lacking in.

None of us know for sure of course but then that's the case for nearly everything that happens in football, politics whatever. I'm making the 'judgement' on what I can see; I could be wrong, I could be completely wrong but my intuition tells me that I'm not.

I find it impossible to believe that an organisation such as ours would have incompetent people in our medical team.

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Originally Posted by Fist of Lehmann

I find it impossible to believe that an organisation such as ours would have incompetent people in our medical team.

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It doesn't have to be incompetence, for one (if LDG and Letters are right) it could be misunderstanding a footballer's mentality, focusing on the injury they've got rather than the player who has it - I mean we all know that despite the money they can earn for doing nothing, footballers hate not playing.

So is he out for the season or not

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

So is he out for the season or not

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As it stands, no. In a couple of weeks it's supposed to be known.

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

Unfortunately those examples are 2008 and 2010 respectively and with (barring permanent disability) the worst injuries a footballer can get. What am I saying is, they've done well when it comes to those heightened injuries which though horrible are rare (after they've had surgery elsewhere of course) but the ones where it might be more 'common' wear and tear, it's an area we're quite possibly lacking in.

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No doubt about it. If I wasn't so lazy (and even geekier than I am now) I'd track down a list of proposed comeback dates at time of injury and actual comeback date. Actually, I tried it once but gave up. We are consistently topping the injury table and while some of it may be bad luck, some of it clearly isn't. What I want to know is why there isn't enough talk about this. The manager has to answer to a shit substitution and tactical failings on the pitch - but why is he never asked the question of injuries? Instead he keeps using it as an excuse to suggest things will pick up ("We still have x,y,z to come back from injury..." etc.).

Not enough weight is being put on The no. 1 problem at the club™ and we need to drum up some interest. I'll get started on the powerpoint presentation, you sort out the flyers.

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

As it stands, no. In a couple of weeks it's supposed to be known.

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Cheers Maccy

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

It doesn't have to be incompetence, for one (if LDG and Letters are right) it could be misunderstanding a footballer's mentality, focusing on the injury they've got rather than the player who has it - I mean we all know that despite the money they can earn for doing nothing, footballers hate not playing.

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True enough. And as much as you'd hope that the medical team of a major football club would understand a footballer's mentality, if a patient tells you he's not feeling any pain, you have no way of telling if he's lying.

Hmm, unless...I'm thinking sodium pentathol and a polygraph test.

Maccy's right. The wear and tear ones seem endless. And are probably (to a degree) preventable in some way. Training? The pitch? Any number of things. everyone else seems to avoid it, so what are we doing wrong?

"He has a little ankle"

"He has a little calf"

"He has a little toe"

We have been unlucky with the leg-breaks and the fractures etc. No doubt about it. But is that as a consequence of the way we play?? Dunno....I was always told you'll get hurt more if you pussy out of challenges....true to a certain extent. You can't stop stoke orcs and sunderland trolls from going over the top and snapping legs, but if you don't contest a ball, sometimes you get nailed for it.

from twitter jack was always saying he had been hitting it hard in the gym etc so the argument that he caused it by doing too much could be valid, watching the medical video, that anti gravity machiene could be the problem, perhpas he did lots of running on that with everyone thinking it would be ok and it wasnt.

Didnt expect him to play this season anyway and this was before the setback so changes f all tbh

How we laughed when Wellbeck, Jones, Smalling, Henderson, Sturridge were all being dragged off to the Euro U21's last summer.

They'll all be ****ed next season they said, but we'll have a nice fresh Jack.