Should Wenger go?

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Originally Posted by Syn

It's not nice to keep debating the semantics of such a silly comment but lets just put it this way:

Lets just imagine for a second that Arsene Wenger was sacked in July 2004. Would you have been happy the next day?

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Er...Yes. I assume this would not have led to the world not turning or a more competent manager showing up. I think a novice shoed up at stamford Bridge the same year.

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Originally Posted by Syn

It's a good point about Hazard. I said that Van Persie was the difference between 4th and 12th and although, obviously, buying another ready-made Van Persie is out of question (simply because there isn't anyone available with that kind of quality), a couple of RVP-lites even could propel us up the table a bit. Maybe. I see the same fundamental flaws happening but if you're willing to spend enough you can fill the cracks.

You're right that you probably cannot put the money situation aside and look to analyse Wenger's performance objectively. It does complicate things - I don't believe Arsene is refusing to spend some kind of 'warchest' available like some say. But I just don't think his management even with the limited resources he has at his disposal has been good enough. That's what it comes down to. And if you believe that, you also believe that a good (not necessarily top) manager could improve things. The predictability about things is suffocating and the club desperately needs a change.

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Yeah, that's fair enough. I wouldn't want to reduce it purely to a financial argument. But the correlation between transfer expenditure, wage expenditure and league performance is such that I don't believe it should be overlooked as often as it is, just to put more on the manager's head. And that is relevant to your point about Wenger's management standard. Especially given the extremes we're dealing with here. I would still maintain that the alternatives being speculated on here are bigged up past their abilities. But I understand you being jaded. It's a poor situation however you look at it.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

Er...Yes. I assume this would not have led to the world not turning or a more competent manager showing up. I think a novice shoed up at stamford Bridge the same year.

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You're such a liar. :lol:

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Originally Posted by Dennis Bendtner

It's a fair post and I can't refute much of the detail. I've felt throughout though that all managers make mistakes, and I'm quite sure a lot of them have made similar ones to Wenger. The difference being that they have the comfort blankets of expensive, good players to help mask them. Added to the security a lot of clubs have that their best talent won't be sold every summer. Do we?

I don't know how good this Hazard is. Hypothetically, with all other circumstances remaining the same, if we'd got him for £25m in the summer. If he's as good as the hype (and Wenger) suggests, would it not have improved our position? Just by virtue of having one better player in attack.

I don't disagree that Wenger's made errors. But my point was there is a lack of recognition of extremes. We are 20th (out of 20 current PL teams) in terms of net spend since 2006. How ridiculous is that?

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So true, how many players do you think we'd need?

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

So true, how many players do you think we'd need?

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Who knows? It's not quantity that's an issue. But I made the Hazard point because of the obviously substandard players supporting Van Persie right now. A really good central midfielder replacing Fabregas and we'd be controlling more games. You could probably make the point for a few positions.

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Originally Posted by Dennis Bendtner

I don't disagree that Wenger's made errors. But my point was there is a lack of recognition of extremes. We are 20th (out of 20 current PL teams) in terms of net spend since 2006. How ridiculous is that?

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Did I read that table right? Villa & Sunderland have spent twice as much as us in the last 5 years, Bolton more, Fulham the same.

But then - Boro and West Ham have both spent 20 odd million more than us - Brum & Pompey the same (must catch the back end of 'Arry's deals).

I don't doubt the table but cannot see how Middlesboro have spent £103 million on players since 2006 and us only 85. Who the **** did they buy?

Funny how you weren't speaking up about it earlier. Did you share your desire for him to leave back in 2004.

If you did, what reaction did you get?

I want Wenger out, but I'm pretty sure I've never heard of anyone thinking they'd like rid in 2004.

I brook many opinions - but yours in this instant is 'out there' and one I've never heard expressed before anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

Why because vyou bsaid so. Winning the league is nothing wee havent done before, Madrid have sacked mangars that have won leagues and CL. Yet 2004 is held up as the pinnacle of football. I wanted him out after we bottled the CL. How does yuours o anyones opinion mattter more than any other. Maybe I was being prescient maybe you cannot accept that Wenger is an abject failure now. Or are you running a Gaddafi show here now, that brooks no other opinions

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Originally Posted by Gubby Allen

Did I read that table right? Villa & Sunderland have spent twice as much as us in the last 5 years, Bolton more, Fulham the same.

But then - Boro and West Ham have both spent 20 odd million more than us - Brum & Pompey the same (must catch the back end of 'Arry's deals).

I don't doubt the table but cannot see how Middlesboro have spent £103 million on players since 2006 and us only 85. Who the **** did they buy?

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The Middlesbrough thing looks ropey. No idea. Must admit I didn't look specifically at the figures. But it appears they may have botched a few. You'd be alright to doubt the table to be fair. I'd still make a point along the same lines, but obviously not as well reinforced.

On a related sub-topic, for those who want him out, when did you move past the point of no return?

For me it was when we bottled the NLD at home last year. I felt that to throw away another lead in a game of that magnitude was just unforgivable - especially given as it had already happened 2 years earlier in the same fixture. I knew for sure then that the manager had built a team who simply could not be trusted at all.

I wanted him gone before but the point of no return came during the August 2010 transfer window.