West Ham away (PL) Match Reaction Thread

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12-04-2016, 04:30 PM
Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kano

I don’t think that is true. The problem is that Wenger still romanticises the game, which allows him to be wrapped up in high-horse moral stance. Aside from allowing this to hamper the way he manages the squad, it also means he blames a multitude of factors away from himself. I’m sure he recognises some mistakes – that’s just human – but he places the blame of the key problems elsewhere. You see him on the side-lines thumping the turf, kicking bottles, arguing with 4th officials and sometimes opposing managers. He snipes at the press and fans because he is extremely pissed off at it going wrong. He desperately wants to win, but win on his terms and it is dementing him. He cares deeply but the methods he uses prevent him from seeing the bare naked truth of the situation, so round-and-round he goes.

You honestly think he takes defeat as personally as he used to?

Does he want to win as much as he used to ? Who can say quite possibly he does.

But there is a difference between wanting to win and hating to lose. I might really want a rib eye steak for dinner but in all honesty it's not going to hurt too much if I don't get one.

Defeat should be anathema to a coach and you just don't see it with Wenger anymore.

Wenger was asked about his record against Mourinho and he says it doesn't concern him, now of course he's going to say that. But do you really get the impression that it eats away at him? Because I don't and it really should when you consider how that pernicious midget considers him with such disdain.

It's an age thing I'm sure, he took his rivalry with Ferguson seriously and it would have meant a lot to him to shit on Ferguson's doorstep by winning the title at Old Trafford.

Now days his younger counterparts have passed him by and it seems to garner a shrug.
12-04-2016, 04:53 PM
Kano

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

You honestly think he takes defeat as personally as he used to?

Does he want to win as much as he used to ? Who can say quite possibly he does.

But there is a difference between wanting to win and hating to lose. I might really want a rib eye steak for dinner but in all honesty it's not going to hurt too much if I don't get one.

Defeat should be anathema to a coach and you just don't see it with Wenger anymore.

Wenger was asked about his record against Mourinho and he says it doesn't concern him, now of course he's going to say that. But do you really get the impression that it eats away at him? Because I don't and it really should when you consider how that pernicious midget considers him with such disdain.

It's an age thing I'm sure, he took his rivalry with Ferguson seriously and it would have meant a lot to him to shit on Ferguson's doorstep by winning the title at Old Trafford.

Now days his younger counterparts have passed him by and it seems to garner a shrug.

I think he wants to win as much as ever but only on his terms - which is a massive problem. The actions I listed above say far more than any of the neutral political style stances he adopts infront of the media. He is also a 66 year old, so he has to be calmer anyway. I don't think finance purely drives him and as a proud man he wants to prove everyone wrong, that he was right after all. Except, that won't happen and the reverse is happening.

The only other way to come to a judgement about his hunger is via his comments outside a football came and as you concede yourself, he plays the game there 9.99 times out of ten, so you can't really make a clear assessment of what's going on in his head.
12-04-2016, 05:05 PM
Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I'm only comparing him to how he appeared ten-fifteen years ago
12-04-2016, 06:07 PM
Kano

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I'm only comparing him to how he appeared ten-fifteen years ago

Everyone matures with age and especially at 66 you can't be as animated as you once were for obvious reasons. Compare yourself to 15 years ago and no doubt there's a big difference with how you react to situations. Yet ironically, he displays far more frustration on sidelines than he ever has.
12-04-2016, 06:52 PM
fakeyank

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kano

Everyone matures with age and especially at 66 you can't be as animated as you once were for obvious reasons. Compare yourself to 15 years ago and no doubt there's a big difference with how you react to situations. Yet ironically, he displays far more frustration on sidelines than he ever has.

He is seeing his empire crumbling one brick at a time. Tbf, there isnt an empire anymore.. it was over long back. People are just realizing that he is finished now.
12-04-2016, 10:27 PM
Letters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

:doh: You've resorted to Wenger tribute videos :doh:

And you've resorted to changing the subject :lol:
I was talking about an interview Dein gave where he said how Wenger was after games we lost.
You said that was a long time ago so I posted the interview, which was 2 years ago.

So of course now you're desperately trying to change the subject and distract everyone with WUMming and lazy straw man arguments rather than engaging with the point. So well done, you win teh internets again.
12-04-2016, 10:32 PM
Letters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Dein's professional relationship with Wenger ended in 2007

Not sure how that's relevant. My comments were about Dein saying how Wenger is after defeats. And he was talking 2 years ago, they clearly still see each other regularly. Surely a more relevant indicator of how bothered Wenger is than most of us who have never met him.
12-04-2016, 10:37 PM
Letters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Özim

As someone said Dein is talking about something that happened almost a decade ago.

No, he isn't. He was talking 2 years ago and saying how they go out (present tense) after home games unless we've lost.
12-04-2016, 11:18 PM
mastermind84

Quote:

Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Do we really know if the losses effect Wenger in the same way they used to? I can't really be sure because I don't see it.

Did you see how loses affected Wenger in the past?
13-04-2016, 01:08 AM
Niall_Quinn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letters

And you've resorted to changing the subject :lol:
I was talking about an interview Dein gave where he said how Wenger was after games we lost.
You said that was a long time ago so I posted the interview, which was 2 years ago.

So of course now you're desperately trying to change the subject and distract everyone with WUMming and lazy straw man arguments rather than engaging with the point. So well done, you win teh internets again.

What subject?

The general question is whether Wenger tolerates losing more easily today than he did in the past. You've chucked up a tribute video featuring his mate and tried to claim you have the definitive proof that Wenger hasn't changed. In a video designed for the very purpose of painting Wenger in the best possible light his mate in a 3 second clip says no, Wenger remains poor company at dinner if he's lost a match. He's still at the dinner you notice - is that the hunger you are talking about?

Or maybe not. Because in Wenger's own words. "If we win the game, then you have the good moments and you go out with friends and have dinner. So that’s kind of a switch off, but I never go out for dinner after we lose a game. Never. I just sit at home miserably and think about why we lost, what I can do better."

One of them has a bad memory then. Whichever one it is your 3 seconds is scant evidence of anything at all except maybe the feelgood woolliness and exuberant recollection common in tribute pieces. It proves nothing other than your unwillingness to dig deeper than the local topsoil for your material. PravdaArsenal.com is where Wenger tells us directly how he feels about losing.

Quote:

If we have not got a game for a while, and we have lost the last one, there are times when I have not gone out at all for days. Maybe people don’t realise how much it hurts, but I think it hurts the fans as well. It really hurts to lose the game. If it doesn’t hurt, you will never survive in the game. If you want to stay in this job, it has to hurt when you lose matches. - Wenger 2015

So there. Job done properly. Use that instead and no need for thanks, it only took 3 seconds to find it.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/features...-arsene-wenger

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