But you and others, myself included, already agree it's the lack of quality on the pitch and depth in the squad that's the key issue. So if we ignore the board we might as well just say we are doing quite well considering what we have to work with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
The board and manager stance will change from "We are playing in the CL, many teams would be lucky to be in our position" to "we are playing in Europe, many teams would be lucky to be in our position". Complacency and a lack of ambition, securing a place in European competition, has become an excuse for not winning trophies. We'll rest players in the CC and F.A. cup, our priority will have changed from securing the "4th Place Cup", to holding onto the "5th Place Cup".Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
The sad thing about today is that I knew we would lose, I even said to a fellow Gooner mate of mine we'll drop points.
I basically gave up with Arsene a long time ago, it wasn't even the final straw for me in the Summer, the damage had already been done way before that. We see these recurring patterns every single season, it's not even worth debating anymore.
I wanted him gone 2 seasons ago...nothing will change though. Come this summer he'll give us the annual "we'll sign 3 world class players", then we'll lose RVP & possibly one other high profile player, have we got any left?!!! after season ticket renewal time. Arsene will then sit on his hands and buy nobody and tell the world his team is ready and will come back stronger.
Sound familiar?
Lack of quaality and depth stops us from being title contenders and challenging for the league. In that sense, yes. But can you use that excuse when we have just lost to Swansea? They have less depth and resources than us. Less experience at this level as well. You can't look at the Board for this sort of situation. It's down to tactics, preparation and management of the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
On paper, our first team and bench are much better and more experienced. The argument about strength and depth doesn't wash here. It's no excuse. Wenger should be able to out fox a newly promoted team. That's the sort of game our Carling Cup kids team used to win. This isn't just a glitch in the matrix or maybe it is because it's fucking deja vu with this team every season. We struggled to be Leeds last week and only just lost to Fulham. Strength and depth has nothing to do with it.
So it is all PR talk when they give him new contracts and sleep in the bed of money he has generated for them, but it isn't PR talk when they talk about the 'war chest' of funds available to spend?Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Cant see any top bosses coming to us tbh, with the lack of investment and the constant stripping of all assets from the team while replacing them with cheap alternatives is hardly a juicy advertisement for the club is it?
Wenger has done well while losing most of his prodigies but with less pig-headeness could have done a lot better, there are a few things wrong here and there (least of all the tactics) but if Wenger wont change these he should be moved on and a more adaptable manager given a go.
Tis funny but was talking to a Chelsea fan yesterday who said that the word at the bridge is that they will go for Brendan Rogers if AVB doesn't Pep up, with him being known to most of the squad already, having the GHELS on side due to the Morinho history and showing real promise at Swansea they see him as a long term target.
I do wonder who our board would go for.
They will leave that decision down to Arsene :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavs
Dragan Stojkovic probably. If he is Wenger Jnr, circa 1997-2005 I don't think anybody will argue.
I would like to see them give it to a young up and comer from the prem really, they wont obviously but it would be nice to see them give a chance to someone who is doing good things with a different team.
Quite frankly, how much we have to spend is irrelevant in this case and I don’t want to get caught up in this Board talk. I’ll dismiss it all as PR talk. In fact, I can’t really recall a situation where a Board has openly criticised a manager before giving him the sack. But again, it’s irrelevant. Wenger had money to spend in this transfer window.Quote:
Originally Posted by GB.
Under normal circumstances, I would say he should go. And now. But this isn't normal circumstances, because whoever replaces him will have the exact same problem. No money, and no players.
what rubbish you go on about how if this was any other club he'd be sacked, so why has he not been is that part of the pr too, not its because the board are as useless as him they are as much to blame and those who think not are deluding themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerrrrr
well you would not put RVP in the top 10 either so what you say is null and void anyways, but is the most stupid thing ever wrtitten on gw to say that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker
Agree but a new manager can't do no harm if we don't make top 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
I disagree mate (not in a WUMming way either) I think there are managers out there who could do a lot better with the squad we have, I look at the way teams like Swansea, Norwich, Newcastle and so on and we are by far better on paper to the extent we could play our second string and be expected to get a result and yet look how they play. Funny how Windshere bet with the Spurs fans about finishing above them, he should have spoken to the Geordie fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
People talk about getting new players in to push us on and get that 4th place, well what about getting a new boss in for the same reason? We have far too many complacent players in the squad getting 1st team games week in week out while under-performing and looking disinterested. They need a good kick up the arse and wont get it from Wenger.
Look at Sunderland? New boss, same players and the results have completed changed i would also expect QPR to pick up significantly as well. For me the time is now not the end of the season.
cheers, thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Joker
i'm not sure there is anything more gay than this whole 'pro/anti wenger brigade' categorising nonsense on the internet.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavs
:haha:
Edit @ TT
LDG, how is this not normal circumstances? What proof do we have that we have no money? We make millions on matchday every week for crying out loud, what on earth are we doing with this money? Seriously??????Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
Arsene did have some some money to spend in the summer, he just didn't spend it wisely. He spunks millions on youth prospects & projects. If his job was on the line and he was pragmatic he would have bought starting XI quality in the summer, not more projects.
Anyway if we move away from the financial side of things we have tactical issues too...lack of organisation in defence, patchy midfield, weak offence. If we didn't have RVP i'm pretty sure we'd be a mid table side...that's how bad things have got.
I cannot believe some of you guys on here still put up with Arsene, he should've been fired 3 seasons ago!
I wasn't saying he should stay, and I'm getting sick and tired of all the bullshit, and losing matches to inferior opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
At what point in my post did I say I was putting up with it? I'm not.
I thought we were fucking awful yesterday, and I'm usually pragmatic and patient when it comes to watching us. I was climbing the walls watching them huff and puff and give the ball away needlessly.
I want us to sign some players (the right players mind, not just spunking money for the sake of it) and I've siad before where I think we should be strengthening.
What I'm getting at, is that this board are happy to keep all the money we as fans spend, and I don't see that changing if we replace Arsene. In fact, I think he's done a half decent job in the transfer market with what he has been given to spend. I don't believe for one second that he wouldn't like more cash to spend on players. I don't believe he's that stupid. Stubborn and too much faith in youth / failed projects, maybe, but not thick.
The place is stinking to high heaven at the moment, but just changing the manager is not the answer. The only way we change our fortunes, is to start putting football higher on the list of priorities, from the board, to the manager, to the players....and until that changes, it won't make one bit of difference.
This is a tactical issue. The Board and finances come into the equation much later and right now it is irrelevant. We have lost to teams that can’t compete with us financially and on paper have players with less experience and skill. Managers with less experience and no experience of winning the Prem title or that much Premier League experience in fact. We struggled to beat Leeds last week. That should tell you where we are at. It has nothing to do with the Board at this stage. Our team is more than capable of beating Fulham and Swansea. It shouldn’t take a late goal from Henry to beat Leeds.
Wenger is certainly a stubborn mule. But he can only send out what he has and he can only instruct them how to play and then hope they can muster up enough brain activity to follow the instructions. I'm sure he doesn't say, "Hey, Theo - what I want you to do is be a complete fuck up for 90 minutes. Hey Aaron, I'd like you to dwell on the ball and when you get into the danger area make sure you try the impossible stuff rather than keeping it simple. Hey Andre, don't bother running and forget about that diet we were talking about."Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
We need better players than these, or at least we need to introduce better players to help what we have learn and improve. Wenger turns profits in teh transfer windows and always scrapes us into 4th place for the CL cash. If you stand back and look, what does this tell you? The primary business of Arsenal is not football, it's making money. If this is Wenger's idea then he should be sacked, of course. However, if this is Wenger's idea and the board has just been sitting there the whole time doing fuck all because they are too scared of him to act - well fuck them too, they should be out of here. whichever way you slice it, you can't ignore the board in all of this. They are clearly part of the problem, one way or the other.
Wenger and the board are one, IMO.
But somehow managers of lesser teams operating on smaller budgets with less talented players can get a performance out of their lot. It’s a poor excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
There's the big issue though. Are those players on the other teams really less talented or do we have a gang of monkeys who are assumed to be talented despite the evidence we see on the pitch. Is Theo REALLY talented? Does Arshavin REALLY have anything left? Is Ramsey good enough to be the kid who one minute was a rising star and next has to be the finished article and leader in the middle? Does Chamakh have any talent whatsoever? Is Gervinho any better than that Seggersson bloke we watched yesterday? I'm not convinced our players are more talented and when you look at it are they really that more experienced in the key areas?Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I thought he changed the game when he came on yesterday, not like that Arteta bloke...Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
That’s a ridiculous argument. You can’t flip it to suggest Swansea, Fulham and Leeds have players just as or more talented than ours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Leeds?Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
All I know is we were outplayed by both the others mentioned and we haven't been showing much of the control we had become used to. Is it a crime to even suggest our current crop of players might not be all that?
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
If that's your stance, I won't argue with you. I just think it's ridiculous. Give another manager our players and you'd see a different performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
otherwise they'd be higher than us in the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavs
Not really, there is a lot more to this game than just talentQuote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
you can't have one without the other to be in the top section of the league.
a win yesterday and this conversation wouldn't even be taking place. classic internet rage.
Season isn't over by a long shot. A few more injuries and fuck knows where we'll be. Nobody has mentioned it, probably because we're all treading on egg shells, but if He Who Shall Not Be Named gets injured we are well and truly fucked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
At one point I thought we could do it but the result yesterday convinced me that we won't finish in the top four.
We're an average team who are being carried by one fantastic player. Yes we work hard which can be enough to win you a football match but to win trophies you need some quality in the team and we just don't have it. In fact we are carrying players so we're making it even harder for ourselves.
We cannot continue to play Walcott and Arshavin when it's clear that they just aren't good enough. I'm even hearing that Walcott wants a payrise and the worst thing is I think he'll get it. He must be earning double what Sinclair and Dyer earn and they showed him up yesterday!
I'm a big fan of the work ethic that Wenger has brought into the team this year but we need to add to that with quality. It seems that he seriously isn't going to sign anyone which is criminal.
When we don't finish fourth we will lose the few good players we do have which is only going to make it worse.
We are going to have to stick with Wenger until the end of the season but then I want him gone and let's hope he takes Walcott & Arshavin with him.
No, not Internet rage. It's the fact we fell at a major hurdle. We needed the points there. There have been several key occasions where the teams we are hoping to catch have dropped points and we just haven't been able to capitalise. This was another one of those occasions coming close after the Fulham fuck up. People are starting to see the old patterns emerge and it's sort of depressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
Nonsense I think quite a few people have been questioning whether or not we have talent in the squad or the illusion of it for over 3 years now. Is Chamakh really more talented than Steve Morrison at Norwich? Is Walcott more talented than Scott Sinclair?Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
I think its somewhat an arrogant leftover from the good old days to think we are a far more talented team than some of those around or or that we "deserve" a top for finish just for that talent. What about graft? Tactical nous? gamemanship? Mental application? and so on.
I look at the squad and i see it more and more as a polished turd sadly
We're not a talented team. We struggle to get passing movements going like Swansea did yesterday. We don't pass quickly, the first-touch is average, no difference in pure footballing talent between ourselves and teams around 6th-10th. But if we finish around 5th then it's because we're better in defence and more resilient than teams 6th-10th. I know we weren't exactly solid yesterday but we usually are ok in defence..we just can't score enough goals and attack well. Funny how things change. Arstoke FC imo.
given our start, we have always been playing catch up. then like any other team we were due to drop form, which was going to hurt more considering our start, so it's a catch 22 of sorts. we are in a position to challenge for 4th, which is what we expected a week ago. if we had 4 points with games to go i'd panic. but not now. nothing will happen in the transfer window but show me the point in facing up to 4/5 months of gloom? we've come back from an almost apocalyptic start to where we are, so it is within this lot to grab that 4th place come may.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
That's the key failing of our squad and the management, resilience or the lack of it, no mental resilience, no physical resilience and no testicular resilienceQuote:
Originally Posted by Syn