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Pay compensation for a player who's injury prone? Come on be realistic, doesn't happen in any other sport and I'm not sure why it should in football either, he's always getting injured, doesn't take much for him to be out and it's not their fault he gets injured on the pitch, that's out of their control, players gets tackled, some are injury prone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
If they paid us for our players getting injured every International break we'd be richer than Man City.
We can and probably will get compensation, there's not much doubt about that.
It's Kallstrom Time.Quote:
Originally Posted by theguardian.com
But it will be from insurance, won't it? So the taxpayer will end up paying that. There should be some sanction against the fuckers who organise these meaningless games. They are the guilty party, not the taxpayer.Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
You can see what a classy guy our manager is from his comments in the media today. Same can't be said about that cunt Hodgson who left Wilshere on the pitch after he was injured. In a NOTHING game. This is ludicrous.
If a player is injured it's for him to say he can't carry on, if Wilshere said he could how was Hodgson to know he was injured? When a player goes down the player usually makes the call as to whether he's able to carry on, unless he clearly can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Hodgson wouldn't have left him on if he knew he was injured, why would he?
Wenger has made the same mistake as Hodgson and let Wilshere play on after being misled about the extent of his injury. He said sometimes you have to trust the player when he says he can play on. Wishere just needs to learn to come off if he thinks something is wrong.
When you are playing for your international place in a WC year, you are unlikely to do that. The manager should have taken him off.
Yeah, you definitely wouldn't have criticised Wenger for the exact same thing...
Not you <_<, Zim.
It may not happen much in sport, but it's pretty much the basis of all negligence law - reasonable foreseeability, and all that. If you have prior knowledge that someone is prone to injury, and you put them in a situation / give them a task to do where they're more likely to get injured (or, in this case, fail to act if you've just witnessed them getting injured, and then leave them to carry on doing the same task for nearly another hour), then you're on pretty shaky ground. Up until now I would imagine most sports clubs have refrained from making claims because of the floodgates argument, but I wouldn't mind betting that this is something that we'll start to see more and more of now players' wages are getting more expensive and harder for clubs to simply write-off?Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Exactly right :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
No I wouldn't, playing someone when they've just come back from injury is one thing, but if a player goes down gets up and says he's fine and then doesn't appear injured how is the manager suppose to know he's not ok?
It could be argued however that the clubs shouldn't be paying players these wages in the 1st place, maybe they would get compensation if players weren't so overpaid.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
By doing what you're suggesting you'd effectively end up discriminating against players who are injury prone, because why would you pick a player who is more likely to get injured and going to cost you money?
It's always been the same and I don't see why it should change to be honest, all clubs have to deal with it, we've got a number of injury prone players we carry every year, should we not pay them when they injured as well, or ask them for compensation?
We get injuries regularly in our squad, I'm not surprised they get injured on International duty because some of these guys gets injured every other week at club level, it's not really anyone's fault, if you're injury prone you're injury prone, why should someone else have to pay up for that, especially when you choose to go and play (players don't have to play, they can opt out).
He's definitely made the same mistake in the past, but the difference is Wenger / Arsenal will cover his his wages if the injury happens while he's going about club business - this is basically about holding national teams to the same standards: if you're going to call players up for national duty, that's fine - just be aware of the risks, and be prepared to pay for it if you ignore them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
But Wenger isn't blaming the England medical staff either. He's saying almost the same thing as he said when Wilshere was layed off for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
Club football isn't the same as International football, you have to pay players to keep them in club football, at International level you pick players by nationality you have no say as to how much they get paid or what contracts they are on. Why should they pay someone's 100k wages just because the club had to overpay them.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
The best you're going to get is for them to pay the wages for the time they are with the International team, not how long they are out if they get injured, if the player chooses to accept the invitation to play then he knows the risks, maybe he should pay since he's not obliged to go?
If I have a job and then go on holiday and break a leg, I get my sick leave and then don't get paid the rest of the time, same should apply to players outside club football, problem is these greedy so and so's won't agree to that.
That's the other reason why I think no one ever claims for these things - the law might be on your side, but, as you say, the simple solution for the national sides would be to simply stop picking that player, do they probably hold off out of fear. I really don't think it would come to that though if anyone challenged it? I mean, we're not talking about having to cover a whole squad's wages for a whole season here - we're talking about one or two players' wages here and there for a few weeks. The FA have more than enough money to cover it, and they'll probably have insurance too. Plus they'll be making far more out of these players in endorsements than they'll ever lose in compensation, so I doubt it's in their best interests to start discriminating?Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
And, yes, clubs should absolutely pay their players wages when they get injured playing for them, and clubs DO carry on paying their players wages when they get injured playing for them. As I said above, this is simply about holding national sides to the same standards that every other employer in the land is held to...
How is the manager suppose to know he's not ok if he's coming back from injury, has passed the fitness tests and says he's OK?Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
You've definitely criticised Wenger for that.
Either way the player has to take some responsibility and be honest about whether he's OK to play.
I think clubs make enough money from the fans and even though a lot of money is made from International football, events like the World Cup is a treat for football fans. It wouldn't be right for already rich clubs to impede on that. I don't see the benefit of fines from a fans perspective. Would just mess up a really enjoyable event that only happens every so often.
Our case seemed very odd because Wilshere came back from international duty, player pre season games and then we discovered a problem much later. I would have thought some tests would have showed something wasn't right with his foot. That was disturbing. But Wilshere is an idiot. He already declared himself ok on Twitter for this recent injury but I'm not sure how they found something was wrong this time. Imagine he came back and played in one of out major games injured!Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Someone coming back from injury needs to be brought back gradually, quite often when you bring someone back and play them they get injured immediately again as their body isn't use to the extertions being placed upon it yet, I think sometimes we throw them in too early and should maybe give them 15-20 mins at the end of a match and gradually increase that until the player is 100% back to full fitness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Apparently the fa will be paying Wilshire's wages for the duration of his layoff. Sure I read on the BBC app this morning.
No, not in a friendly. It's not the same thing as a competitive match. Any hint of an injury and the player should be off. Unless Hodgson is so sad he's hoping to build favour with the media hyenas by winning meaningless friendlies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
That's just covering the basic costs. There should be a heavy penalty in addition as we have lost a first team player at a crucial part of the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edinburgh Gooner
Its the refs faultQuote:
Originally Posted by Özim
No it wengers fault :fury:Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
There's only one thing we know with absolute certainty. Some posters here will always (100% of the time) decide the fault lies with Arsenal and/ or Wenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
That's Wengers faultQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
It's the medias fault!
Brilliant! :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by PGFC
No, it's not the media's fault, they do what they do. The huge amount of the bullshit that gets generated is the fault of people who believe what the media prints. Hacks wouldn't exist if they didn't have so many hungry takers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Yeah it is, literally every time. One day Wenger will write a book and tell us how he caused the banking meltdown and the sinking of the Titanic.Quote:
Originally Posted by PGFC
I believe this statement is 2% away from being completely rightQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Bravo :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by PGFC
He won't need to, with all the money he's got out of us he can get someone to write it for him!Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
The wages thing is such a red herring. What if I give you £7mill right now? Would you take it?
Only one condition. You have to give me £40mill back.
Wenger doesn't have to give them anything back (the fans turn up regardless of the football we play), all he has to do is get 4th place which he seems to find not too hard to do, find me another manager who gets paid as much with such low targets?Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Besides getting paid 7 million to earn 40 million is a great deal for anyone, you'll be lucky to have anyone offer you that.
What's stopping you then? Go get the £7mill. Tell the Spuds or Newcastle (or any other team that has more to spend than us over the last 8 years) you'll get them into Europe the next 10 years in a row. I hear there are quite a few clubs looking everywhere for a manager who can do that.
The fact they won't give me the job? As for other clubs, pretty sure those clubs won't just settle for 4th every season to be honest, 4th would be seen as a stepping stone to more and after 10 years I doubt very much any manager would have lasted 9 years at any other big club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Not all clubs think money is the be all and end all.
Find me another manager who finds finishing top 4 every year 'not too hard to do' while spending so little, in net terms, in the transfer market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
The way some people talk on here it's like any idiot could do what Wenger's done.
Won't give you the job? Why not? They currently have a bumbling, clueless fool in charge who is robbing them every year. Surely they'll take anyone just to get rid of him? The job is really easy, pays £7mill a year, give it a shot. They can only say no but you definitely won't get it if you don't apply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim