Arsenal 0-1 West Ham Match Reaction

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Isn’t it ironic that when in your own mind you try and be more clear and direct, you end up being more garbled

Sorry, I saw words but can’t make head nor tails of that

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You do that a lot too, when your argument runs out of steam. The irony being I was pretending to be you, so maybe that's why it makes no sense?

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Originally Posted by IBK

I also disagree with HCZ that a total change of system is either what is being advocated or is necessary. For me it simply needs to be tweaked to progress the ball faster up the pitch with our CM's making runs to prevent our wingers automatically being overloaded. For me, we always look first to play the same passes into space - out wide, back to centre; back to our defenders - rinse and repeat - while the team as a whole creeps up the pitch to face a set defence and a congested final third. Our only creator in MF, Odegard, spends as much of his time running sideways and backwards as he does going forwards and there is rarely anyone making overlapping runs with him from central positions.

Solving this does not require a system change, it needs less emphasis on keeping possession and more bravery - particularly as the former generally comes to nothing anyway when our moves break down in an around the box.

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I’m not even talking about a system change. Villa who I used as an example aren’t a team who plays direct, route one football routinely. What I said is that they have the players that can allow them to try out a more direct routine that’s been developed in the training ground. And what I’m saying is, I don’t think we have the players to go more direct.

Even if we aren’t talking long ball. A more direct long ball into the feet of Trossard? He’s not quick enough to get there.

Nwaneri is but like with Saka you will just get players doubling up on him and as I’ve said more than once it’s not fair to make a 17 year old the focal point of attack

Why is Odegaard running sideways and backwards, I’m sorry but I don’t believe that’s what he’s been told to do in training. It’s because he’s totally bereft of confidence, there are two explanations. One is that he’s carrying an injury and he’s worried that any impact from an intercepting player will finish his season off. Two he’s worried that he will give away possession and it will prove costly. We can’t have it both ways, we can’t bemoan players for playing it safe and then equally have a go at them for overcommitting and leaving us in deep shtuck due to the transition which you and I both admit we are vulnerable to.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

You do that a lot too, when your argument runs out of steam. The irony being I was pretending to be you, so maybe that's why it makes no sense?

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Well you’re right, I do tend to run out of steam when I patiently try and explain the same thing multiple times but because the fantasy narrative is more appealing….it gets dismissed

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Originally Posted by IBK

I also disagree with HCZ that a total change of system is either what is being advocated or is necessary. For me it simply needs to be tweaked to progress the ball faster up the pitch with our CM's making runs to prevent our wingers automatically being overloaded. For me, we always look first to play the same passes into space - out wide, back to centre; back to our defenders - rinse and repeat - while the team as a whole creeps up the pitch to face a set defence and a congested final third. Our only creator in MF, Odegard, spends as much of his time running sideways and backwards as he does going forwards and there is rarely anyone making overlapping runs with him from central positions.

Solving this does not require a system change, it needs less emphasis on keeping possession and more bravery - particularly as the former generally comes to nothing anyway when our moves break down in an around the box.

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That's right. Just a bit more urgency. A bit more ambition. A willingness to take a risk, not suicidal risks but calculated ones. An attempt to keep the opposition defence on their toes, keep them busy, wear them out not bore them to tears. We absolutely do have the players that can achieve this, because even wrecked with injuries we're second in the table. But it has been those stupid dropped points where a willingness to push on for the win might have made all the difference. Instead we keep seeing an unwillingness to lose and there's a difference between the two attitudes.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Well you’re right, I do tend to run out of steam when I patiently try and explain the same thing multiple times but because the fantasy narrative is more appealing….it gets dismissed

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get a job at Arsenal, then you can bench Rice and kick Kabia out.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I’m not even talking about a system change. Villa who I used as an example aren’t a team who plays direct, route one football routinely. What I said is that they have the players that can allow them to try out a more direct routine that’s been developed in the training ground. And what I’m saying is, I don’t think we have the players to go more direct.

Even if we aren’t talking long ball. A more direct long ball into the feet of Trossard? He’s not quick enough to get there.

Nwaneri is but like with Saka you will just get players doubling up on him and as I’ve said more than once it’s not fair to make a 17 year old the focal point of attack

Why is Odegaard running sideways and backwards, I’m sorry but I don’t believe that’s what he’s been told to do in training. It’s because he’s totally bereft of confidence, there are two explanations. One is that he’s carrying an injury and he’s worried that any impact from an intercepting player will finish his season off. Two he’s worried that he will give away possession and it will prove costly. We can’t have it both ways, we can’t bemoan players for playing it safe and then equally have a go at them for overcommitting and leaving us in deep shtuck due to the transition which you and I both admit we are vulnerable to.

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Wild speculation all over the shop. Odegard is running sideways and backwards because that's what the bloody manager is telling him to do. He wouldn't be playing week in, week out if he was doing the opposite to what the manager instructed. After the city win Rice said it clearly - Arteta is great because he scripts everything down to the last detail, we don't need to think just do!

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Wild speculation all over the shop. Odegard is running sideways and backwards because that's what the bloody manager is telling him to do. He wouldn't be playing week in, week out if he was doing the opposite to what the manager instructed. After the city win Rice said it clearly - Arteta is great because he scripts everything down to the last detail, we don't need to think just do!

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:haha: you’re fucking priceless you are

“What you’re saying is speculation, what I’m saying is fact”

Get to fuck you drunk silly man :lol:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

:haha: you’re fucking priceless you are

“What you’re saying is speculation, what I’m saying is fact”

Get to fuck you drunk silly man :lol:

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Okay then, he's injured, lacks confidence and he's defying the manager.

And Rice is chatting shit.

Looks like you were right again!

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Okay then, he's injured, lacks confidence and he's defying the manager.

And Rice is chatting shit.

Looks like you were right again!

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Because the most rational explanation is a player who for the past two seasons was our driving force going forward would win the ball and had stats up there with De Bruyne, is suddenly now playing like Aaron Ramsey because Arteta who never had a problem with his positive play at the time has suddenly decided he needs to be far more safety first and introverted in his play.

That would make far more sense than a player who has never found his form after being injured for two months and because the on the pitch injury was quite a nasty one, it got in his head and he’s now more cautious. That and given he’s played every game almost since he’s been back he’s also just running on fumes.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

We do play a certain system, and as a result we bought in players to compliment that system. You can change things at the drop of a hat if you’re having a Sunday kick about in the park but not when you’re up against fellow millionaire professionals who are drilled till their blue in the face to deal with what you can throw at them.

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I think you're being a bit simplistic about that

Sure, the night before a game you don't suddenly say - 'we're going to change everything' - but a good manager surely coaches his team to play in different ways against different types of sides and has a Plan B and even a Plan C if Plan A isn't working

Tierney is a very good example - Arteta should value Tierney because he can come on and play differently to an MLS, in that he will be more of an orthodox LB going up and down that side and putting in crosses etc, which in certain game states could unlock teams or at least present something different - instead he rejects him because he can’t do the inverted LB thing to which Arteta is so rigidly wedded

A lot of players are more adaptable than you're giving credit for and I think there's enough signs that actually we do have players who could, if encouraged by the coach and the system, transition far more quickly than they do

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Managers win by having the best players and are more peripheral to a teams success than at any time in history.

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This is blatantly untrue – look at Everton, a load of turgid shite under Dyche and then Moyes comes in and transforms them into a team which is far more positive in its approach, scoring goals and winning games – all without their nominally preferred striker in DCL

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Originally Posted by Mac76

I think you're being a bit simplistic about that

Sure, the night before a game you don't suddenly say - 'we're going to change everything' - but a good manager surely coaches his team to play in different ways against different types of sides and has a Plan B and even a Plan C if Plan A isn't working

Tierney is a very good example - Arteta should value Tierney because he can come on and play differently to an MLS, in that he will be more of an orthodox LB going up and down that side and putting in crosses etc, which in certain game states could unlock teams or at least present something different - instead he rejects him because he can’t do the inverted LB thing to which Arteta is so rigidly wedded

A lot of players are more adaptable than you're giving credit for and I think there's enough signs that actually we do have players who could, if encouraged by the coach and the system, transition far more quickly than they do




This is blatantly untrue – look at Everton, a load of turgid shite under Dyche and then Moyes comes in and transforms them into a team which is far more positive in its approach, scoring goals and winning games – all without their nominally preferred striker in DCL

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If you’re talking about the left back position. Tierney’s best attribute to my mind is that he’s the best crosser of the ball at the club. Great, probably should have played him more earlier on in the season when he could have tried to have found Havertz.

Calafiori is being played at left back rather than MLS as a tactical tweek. If Arteta was prioritising defence he’d play MLS, instead he’s prioritising the player who is better on the ball and can add a bit of uncertainty, such as turning his man in the box and almost scoring but for the post. The risk factor is that he’s slower than MLS and lacks positional discipline so like with West Ham on Saturday, he’s getting cooked for pace. But when it’s said as is often said that he’s overcautious, I’d say right there that’s a counter example to that.

We live in an era where players are coached to death, any variance in routine is likely a result of hours if not days of adaptation at the training ground, it’s all about instilling muscle memory.

It is entirely possible tactical tweaks will happen but they will take time. I think also people seem to think I’m insulting our players when I say they can’t do x or y. They do loads of different things better than most other players in the league do and that’s why we are second. But you can’t put petrol in a diesel engine and look anything but silly when you get exasperated when the car breaks down half way up the road

Arteta has encountered this problem when trying to shoehorn Partey in at right back, it doesn’t work

With the last bit, to clarify I mean winning as in winning trophies. Sure there’s enough leeway for a manager to change things and change a club from 17th to 12th. But ultimately most of the time, it’s the club with the best players and the most money to spend that wins the big things not the team with the best coach, apart from anything else 95% of what coaches do is largely all the same anyway.

Put it this way, if there was any club in the league that was in the predicament we are in, and a fan of that club was bemoaning lack of goals because the coach wasn’t prepared to mix it up stylistically. We’d laugh at that fan

If you go back and look at the discussions I’ve had with IBK about our system in the long term, I’ve absolutely stated we should adapt the system and be more flexible. I do think having the best players fit to play is ultimately more important than what system you use to play them, but a system is relevant (even though it’s less so the nearer you get to the top of the tree).

I’d like to bring in players who can mix it up a bit stylistically, but at the moment? We have to work with what we’ve got

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Calafiori is being played at left back rather than MLS as a tactical tweek.

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It wasn't because MLS is suspended then? :haha:

He's actually been rotating them, they're quite similar except Cala's defending is very poor which means he's not suitable for LB, MLS can defend though so for me should be the choice for the biggest games amongst who we have

I think Cala is a better impact sub than MLS though

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Originally Posted by Mac76

It wasn't because MLS is suspended then? :haha:

He's actually been rotating them, they're quite similar except Cala's defending is very poor which means he's not suitable for LB, MLS can defend though so for me should be the choice for the biggest games amongst who we have

I think Cala is a better impact sub than MLS though

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MLS wasn’t suspended for West Ham game, he was sent off as a sub. And I think Calafiori would have started against Forest even without the red card, and at the risk of sounding harsh I don’t think he’d have been caught dithering on the ball as easily as MLS for said red card.

I’ll be honest not a big fan of MLS, I think he’s a very good squad player and certainly one of the better players to emerge from Hale End. But for me he’s not a baller, he’s more of an athlete. I think he can cross a ball better than Maitland Niles and his red cards have been more unfortunate than petulance (red card even, harsh to say plural when one was rightly rescinded) but ultimately technically limited…I’m hoping unlike Maitland Niles he doesn’t start sulking because he won’t ever play in central midfield

I don’t even think MLS is a better defender he’s just quicker because Calafiori is a centre back playing at left back

Calafiori mostly gets done defensively for pace

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I don’t want to sound patronising and ask you why it’s called counter attacking football. But the clue is in the name

The reason we scored an average of three a game in the second half of last season was counter attack. But in order to play on the counter attack, you have to open the scoring to begin with or you have to have a side that will come out and attack. Death by a thousand passes is often a consequence not a feature. The alternative to what we are doing isn’t counter attack it’s route one football….and that would be lovely if we had the type of players who could a) play a decent long ball b) trap a decent long ball.

Deck chairs on the Titanic as I keep saying

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Nothing wrong with what I said :shrug:

Unless you are fucking rain man, why feel the need to comment in that way?

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

Nothing wrong with what I said :shrug:

Unless you are fucking rain man, why feel the need to comment in that way?

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I’m just wondering how you propose we should go about counter attacking to counter the attack of the other team so to speak when the other team isn’t coming out to attack

Given you started with the film references, we could goad them into attacking us like in the Warriors

“Come out to Plaaaaayy!” :lol:

Anyway nothing what with what you said, Definitely Nothing wrong with what you said. Definitely nothing wrong

Fuuck Rain Man, not seen that in years :lol:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Calafiori mostly gets done defensively for pace

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That's not what happened v West Ham though it wasn't pace, he stood off their player too much and allowed him to cross - it's like Zin, he doesn't have the technique, positoning or knowhow, he's just not a defender

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

Nothing wrong with what I said :shrug:

Unless you are fucking rain man, why feel the need to comment in that way?

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He's just on here to argue with people until they get bored and go and do something else, you'll never get the last word

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Originally Posted by Mac76

He's just on here to argue with people until they get bored and go and do something else, you'll never get the last word

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Are you still working from the assumption that someone could only disagree with you to be contrary

Are you that conceited that you don’t believe anyone could disagree with your opinions

That’s not rhetorical, I genuinely want to know

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Originally Posted by IBK

I also disagree with HCZ that a total change of system is either what is being advocated or is necessary. For me it simply needs to be tweaked to progress the ball faster up the pitch with our CM's making runs to prevent our wingers automatically being overloaded. For me, we always look first to play the same passes into space - out wide, back to centre; back to our defenders - rinse and repeat - while the team as a whole creeps up the pitch to face a set defence and a congested final third. Our only creator in MF, Odegard, spends as much of his time running sideways and backwards as he does going forwards and there is rarely anyone making overlapping runs with him from central positions.

Solving this does not require a system change, it needs less emphasis on keeping possession and more bravery - particularly as the former generally comes to nothing anyway when our moves break down in an around the box.

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I think you are suggesting the same thing NQ is tbf.

We need more through balls, passes into space on the attack and up the pitch. Balls that the wingers / strikers (if we have any) can chase down.

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Originally Posted by Mac76

That's not what happened v West Ham though it wasn't pace, he stood off their player too much and allowed him to cross - it's like Zin, he doesn't have the technique, positoning or knowhow, he's just not a defender

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:shrug: that’s exactly what happened against West Ham.

Were you sitting in the same area of the ground you were sitting in when you could tell for definite that Xhaka was a teachers pet

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Isn’t it ironic that when in your own mind you try and be more clear and direct, you end up being more garbled

Sorry, I saw words but can’t make head nor tails of that

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I'm not sure how:
a) you don't understand a word he typed & b) the fact that what he was saying was correct but mainly sarcastic in response to his original posting?

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I’m not even talking about a system change. Villa who I used as an example aren’t a team who plays direct, route one football routinely. What I said is that they have the players that can allow them to try out a more direct routine that’s been developed in the training ground. And what I’m saying is, I don’t think we have the players to go more direct.

Even if we aren’t talking long ball. A more direct long ball into the feet of Trossard? He’s not quick enough to get there.

Nwaneri is but like with Saka you will just get players doubling up on him and as I’ve said more than once it’s not fair to make a 17 year old the focal point of attack

Why is Odegaard running sideways and backwards, I’m sorry but I don’t believe that’s what he’s been told to do in training. It’s because he’s totally bereft of confidence, there are two explanations. One is that he’s carrying an injury and he’s worried that any impact from an intercepting player will finish his season off. Two he’s worried that he will give away possession and it will prove costly. We can’t have it both ways, we can’t bemoan players for playing it safe and then equally have a go at them for overcommitting and leaving us in deep shtuck due to the transition which you and I both admit we are vulnerable to.

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That's the difference between winners and losers.

Winners are brave enough to try, even if it doesn't always work.

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

I'm not sure how:
a) you don't understand a word he typed & b) the fact that what he was saying was correct but mainly sarcastic in response to his original posting?

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On a scale of 1-10, how likely is it do you think that I’m going to take a lecture from someone proposing that we can and should play counter attack against teams who play with 11 men behind the ball.

The point is NQ does what he always does when he has no answer, shift the goalposts. I don’t know whether it’s deliberate or alcoholic delirium

For me it seems a bit pointless to be talking specifically about the here and now and in response to my saying I don’t think we have the players to do what you think we should do, to say well why don’t we get those players.

Which becomes a different discussion entirely, if the discussion is why don’t we adapt this turgid football we are playing now when the summer comes by bringing in players that can mix it up, that’s almost a no brainer isn’t it…who would be against that

What I can’t understand is this petulance howling like a dog that’s been kicked in the nuts by people, about how we should be able to score goals if only we magically change up the way we play when a) albeit small there are indications that we’ve already done that b) you can build a house from sand but it’s going out with the tide come the evening.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

That's right. Just a bit more urgency. A bit more ambition. A willingness to take a risk, not suicidal risks but calculated ones. An attempt to keep the opposition defence on their toes, keep them busy, wear them out not bore them to tears. We absolutely do have the players that can achieve this, because even wrecked with injuries we're second in the table. But it has been those stupid dropped points where a willingness to push on for the win might have made all the difference. Instead we keep seeing an unwillingness to lose and there's a difference between the two attitudes.

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Spot on.

I see the excuses have already begun appearing, injuries, the red cards, etc.

Yes they have been an absolute rod up the backside this season, but I would argue we have lost out in all those draws rather than the few games we dropped points because of bad officiating.

Those games' results were because we were too cautious and too afraid we might lose. It's not a winning mentality.

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

That's the difference between winners and losers.

Winners are brave enough to try, even if it doesn't always work.

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Cool, so if I choose not to run into a brick wall, it’s because I lacked the courage to believe I could become ethereal and will myself to pass through it

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Because the most rational explanation is a player who for the past two seasons was our driving force going forward would win the ball and had stats up there with De Bruyne, is suddenly now playing like Aaron Ramsey because Arteta who never had a problem with his positive play at the time has suddenly decided he needs to be far more safety first and introverted in his play.

That would make far more sense than a player who has never found his form after being injured for two months and because the on the pitch injury was quite a nasty one, it got in his head and he’s now more cautious. That and given he’s played every game almost since he’s been back he’s also just running on fumes.

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We have been playing in the same safety first system for the entirety of this season, no doubt as a result of us not beating Villa at the end of last season and losing out on the title.

Arteta obviously would have changed out play up to counter this situation and it has resulted in the obsessive, possession based, cautious play we have been watching for the last 26+ games.

So yes, I would say Odegaard is doing what the manager wants, along with the rest of the team.

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

Spot on.

I see the excuses have already begun appearing, injuries, the red cards, etc.

Yes they have been an absolute rod up the backside this season, but I would argue we have lost out in all those draws rather than the few games we dropped points because of bad officiating.

Those games' results were because we were too cautious and too afraid we might lose. It's not a winning mentality.

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So this is why I’m kind of taking the piss with you

Our front three is out, I get what you’re saying about our build up play being too slow etc but it’s academic now. We are playing a very average midfielder as a centre forward that’s how academic it is.

A Kriss Akabusi style Positive Mental Attitude isn’t going to change things.


After the Man City game, we still had two of the front three and only Liverpool scored more goals. Whilst you’ll get no argument from me that we were too slow, too predictable etc. It makes not a fuck of difference now

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I’m just wondering how you propose we should go about counter attacking to counter the attack of the other team so to speak when the other team isn’t coming out to attack

Given you started with the film references, we could goad them into attacking us like in the Warriors

“Come out to Plaaaaayy!” :lol:

Anyway nothing what with what you said, Definitely Nothing wrong with what you said. Definitely nothing wrong

Fuuck Rain Man, not seen that in years :lol:

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Because I don't agree that every team we play sets up to defend against us in two banks of 5 in their own half.
That is mainly a situation that ends up happening because our style of play makes it the easiest way for any team to defend against us.

We just don't counter attack - ever.
As soon as we might win possession, we start to make a run, maybe get near the 18 yard box, but then it's always either pass it back, pass it sideways, pass it out wide, lay off Raya running up near the half way line....etc.

It is never a direct attack where a player has the balls to take a shot on, or two attackers running alongside each other to do a quick side pass and shoot into an empty net.

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

We have been playing in the same safety first system for the entirety of this season, no doubt as a result of us not beating Villa at the end of last season and losing out on the title.

Arteta obviously would have changed out play up to counter this situation and it has resulted in the obsessive, possession based, cautious play we have been watching for the last 26+ games.

So yes, I would say Odegaard is doing what the manager wants, along with the rest of the team.

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So to confirm not that he’s either carrying a knock or exhausted, out of form or low on confidence. Arteta decided that our biggest creative player was just playing too well?

Because you’ve been a bit sensitive today. I want to confirm that is your explanation

A yes or no will do

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

Because I don't agree that every team we play sets up to defend against us in two banks of 5 in their own half.
That is mainly a situation that ends up happening because our style of play makes it the easiest way for any team to defend against us.

We just don't counter attack - ever.
As soon as we might win possession, we start to make a run, maybe get near the 18 yard box, but then it's always either pass it back, pass it sideways, pass it out wide, lay off Raya running up near the half way line....etc.

It is never a direct attack where a player has the balls to take a shot on, or two attackers running alongside each other to do a quick side pass and shoot into an empty net.

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No you’re right

Man City doesn’t, Liverpool doesn’t, Spurs doesn’t

Chelsea probably won’t

We’ve seen the difference when we played teams that don’t defend deep against us


We thrashed City 5-1, and we thrashed Palace 5-1


Some of those goals…wait for it….came on the counter attack

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

On a scale of 1-10, how likely is it do you think that I’m going to take a lecture from someone proposing that we can and should play counter attack against teams who play with 11 men behind the ball.

The point is NQ does what he always does when he has no answer, shift the goalposts. I don’t know whether it’s deliberate or alcoholic delirium

For me it seems a bit pointless to be talking specifically about the here and now and in response to my saying I don’t think we have the players to do what you think we should do, to say well why don’t we get those players.

Which becomes a different discussion entirely, if the discussion is why don’t we adapt this turgid football we are playing now when the summer comes by bringing in players that can mix it up, that’s almost a no brainer isn’t it…who would be against that

What I can’t understand is this petulance howling like a dog that’s been kicked in the nuts by people, about how we should be able to score goals if only we magically change up the way we play when a) albeit small there are indications that we’ve already done that b) you can build a house from sand but it’s going out with the tide come the evening.

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We won titles playing counter attack. Liverpool are going to win a title by playing counter attack :shrug:

What I don't understand is that these are the same players mostly that did play this way in the second half of last season, but now they are not capable of it?

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Cool, so if I choose not to run into a brick wall, it’s because I lacked the courage to believe I could become ethereal and will myself to pass through it

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:haha: there is literally no middle ground with you is there!

The only games I can think of where we didn’t at least once try the counter attack when ahead are games like Ipswich who seemed to decide that losing 1-0 was ok, and Brighton where we had almost no attacking players starting the game due to injury and illness

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

So this is why I’m kind of taking the piss with you

Our front three is out, I get what you’re saying about our build up play being too slow etc but it’s academic now. We are playing a very average midfielder as a centre forward that’s how academic it is.

A Kriss Akabusi style Positive Mental Attitude isn’t going to change things.


After the Man City game, we still had two of the front three and only Liverpool scored more goals. Whilst you’ll get no argument from me that we were too slow, too predictable etc. It makes not a fuck of difference now

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I agree, we are fucked this season now, but my worry is we cannot even maintain 2nd place.

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

:haha: there is literally no middle ground with you is there!

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I’ve honestly tried being nice and patient

But if people want to promote a narrative rather than analyse the situation for what it is. I’m going to be sarcastic and off hand. Will I get anywhere doing this? No but I’ve clearly got no where being patient and understanding and at least this way I have more fun

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

I agree, we are fucked this season now, but my worry is we cannot even maintain 2nd place.

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It’s a laudable worry but I’m afraid there’s not much we can do about it

People dont like feeling powerless and helpless to prevent something and they’ll do anything to fight against it. I suspect this is why I’m getting so much resistance.

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

We won titles playing counter attack. Liverpool are going to win a title by playing counter attack :shrug:

What I don't understand is that these are the same players mostly that did play this way in the second half of last season, but now they are not capable of it?

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Because we didn’t open the scoring on the counter, in many of those games we opened the scoring via a set piece. I think it’s 50% that teams have worked out how to defend our set pieces and 50% that we are missing Saka and White who were instrumental in them.

Now if you’re saying to me, we shouldn’t rely on just one way to open up the scoring. Totally agree, or at least I would have before our front three all got injured

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

So to confirm not that he’s either carrying a knock or exhausted, out of form or low on confidence. Arteta decided that our biggest creative player was just playing too well?

Because you’ve been a bit sensitive today. I want to confirm that is your explanation

A yes or no will do

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Sensitive?! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!

I gave a one post tongue in cheek response, I actually couldn't care less :)

All those things you said are probably to an extent, true, I have no doubt he is not in form as it shows.
However, if he was doing hi sown thing and not following the instructions of how Arteta wants the team to function, I very much doubt he would be playing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

The only games I can think of where we didn’t at least once try the counter attack when ahead are games like Ipswich who seemed to decide that losing 1-0 was ok, and Brighton where we had almost no attacking players starting the game due to injury and illness

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I have probably seen about 3 games this season where we attempted a full on, proper, from start to finish, counter attack.