Arsenal 0-1 West Ham Match Reaction

[Niall_Quinn]

Isn’t it ironic that when in your own mind you try and be more clear and direct, you end up being more garbled

Sorry, I saw words but can’t make head nor tails of that

You do that a lot too, when your argument runs out of steam. The irony being I was pretending to be you, so maybe that's why it makes no sense?

[HCZ_Reborn]

I also disagree with HCZ that a total change of system is either what is being advocated or is necessary. For me it simply needs to be tweaked to progress the ball faster up the pitch with our CM's making runs to prevent our wingers automatically being overloaded. For me, we always look first to play the same passes into space - out wide, back to centre; back to our defenders - rinse and repeat - while the team as a whole creeps up the pitch to face a set defence and a congested final third. Our only creator in MF, Odegard, spends as much of his time running sideways and backwards as he does going forwards and there is rarely anyone making overlapping runs with him from central positions.

Solving this does not require a system change, it needs less emphasis on keeping possession and more bravery - particularly as the former generally comes to nothing anyway when our moves break down in an around the box.

I’m not even talking about a system change. Villa who I used as an example aren’t a team who plays direct, route one football routinely. What I said is that they have the players that can allow them to try out a more direct routine that’s been developed in the training ground. And what I’m saying is, I don’t think we have the players to go more direct.

Even if we aren’t talking long ball. A more direct long ball into the feet of Trossard? He’s not quick enough to get there.

Nwaneri is but like with Saka you will just get players doubling up on him and as I’ve said more than once it’s not fair to make a 17 year old the focal point of attack

Why is Odegaard running sideways and backwards, I’m sorry but I don’t believe that’s what he’s been told to do in training. It’s because he’s totally bereft of confidence, there are two explanations. One is that he’s carrying an injury and he’s worried that any impact from an intercepting player will finish his season off. Two he’s worried that he will give away possession and it will prove costly. We can’t have it both ways, we can’t bemoan players for playing it safe and then equally have a go at them for overcommitting and leaving us in deep shtuck due to the transition which you and I both admit we are vulnerable to.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You do that a lot too, when your argument runs out of steam. The irony being I was pretending to be you, so maybe that's why it makes no sense?

Well you’re right, I do tend to run out of steam when I patiently try and explain the same thing multiple times but because the fantasy narrative is more appealing….it gets dismissed

[Niall_Quinn]

I also disagree with HCZ that a total change of system is either what is being advocated or is necessary. For me it simply needs to be tweaked to progress the ball faster up the pitch with our CM's making runs to prevent our wingers automatically being overloaded. For me, we always look first to play the same passes into space - out wide, back to centre; back to our defenders - rinse and repeat - while the team as a whole creeps up the pitch to face a set defence and a congested final third. Our only creator in MF, Odegard, spends as much of his time running sideways and backwards as he does going forwards and there is rarely anyone making overlapping runs with him from central positions.

Solving this does not require a system change, it needs less emphasis on keeping possession and more bravery - particularly as the former generally comes to nothing anyway when our moves break down in an around the box.

That's right. Just a bit more urgency. A bit more ambition. A willingness to take a risk, not suicidal risks but calculated ones. An attempt to keep the opposition defence on their toes, keep them busy, wear them out not bore them to tears. We absolutely do have the players that can achieve this, because even wrecked with injuries we're second in the table. But it has been those stupid dropped points where a willingness to push on for the win might have made all the difference. Instead we keep seeing an unwillingness to lose and there's a difference between the two attitudes.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well you’re right, I do tend to run out of steam when I patiently try and explain the same thing multiple times but because the fantasy narrative is more appealing….it gets dismissed

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get a job at Arsenal, then you can bench Rice and kick Kabia out.

[Niall_Quinn]

I’m not even talking about a system change. Villa who I used as an example aren’t a team who plays direct, route one football routinely. What I said is that they have the players that can allow them to try out a more direct routine that’s been developed in the training ground. And what I’m saying is, I don’t think we have the players to go more direct.

Even if we aren’t talking long ball. A more direct long ball into the feet of Trossard? He’s not quick enough to get there.

Nwaneri is but like with Saka you will just get players doubling up on him and as I’ve said more than once it’s not fair to make a 17 year old the focal point of attack

Why is Odegaard running sideways and backwards, I’m sorry but I don’t believe that’s what he’s been told to do in training. It’s because he’s totally bereft of confidence, there are two explanations. One is that he’s carrying an injury and he’s worried that any impact from an intercepting player will finish his season off. Two he’s worried that he will give away possession and it will prove costly. We can’t have it both ways, we can’t bemoan players for playing it safe and then equally have a go at them for overcommitting and leaving us in deep shtuck due to the transition which you and I both admit we are vulnerable to.

Wild speculation all over the shop. Odegard is running sideways and backwards because that's what the bloody manager is telling him to do. He wouldn't be playing week in, week out if he was doing the opposite to what the manager instructed. After the city win Rice said it clearly - Arteta is great because he scripts everything down to the last detail, we don't need to think just do!

[HCZ_Reborn]

Wild speculation all over the shop. Odegard is running sideways and backwards because that's what the bloody manager is telling him to do. He wouldn't be playing week in, week out if he was doing the opposite to what the manager instructed. After the city win Rice said it clearly - Arteta is great because he scripts everything down to the last detail, we don't need to think just do!

you’re fucking priceless you are

“What you’re saying is speculation, what I’m saying is fact”

Get to fuck you drunk silly man

[Niall_Quinn]

you’re fucking priceless you are

“What you’re saying is speculation, what I’m saying is fact”

Get to fuck you drunk silly man

Okay then, he's injured, lacks confidence and he's defying the manager.

And Rice is chatting shit.

Looks like you were right again!

[HCZ_Reborn]

Okay then, he's injured, lacks confidence and he's defying the manager.

And Rice is chatting shit.

Looks like you were right again!

Because the most rational explanation is a player who for the past two seasons was our driving force going forward would win the ball and had stats up there with De Bruyne, is suddenly now playing like Aaron Ramsey because Arteta who never had a problem with his positive play at the time has suddenly decided he needs to be far more safety first and introverted in his play.

That would make far more sense than a player who has never found his form after being injured for two months and because the on the pitch injury was quite a nasty one, it got in his head and he’s now more cautious. That and given he’s played every game almost since he’s been back he’s also just running on fumes.

[Mac76]

We do play a certain system, and as a result we bought in players to compliment that system. You can change things at the drop of a hat if you’re having a Sunday kick about in the park but not when you’re up against fellow millionaire professionals who are drilled till their blue in the face to deal with what you can throw at them.

I think you're being a bit simplistic about that

Sure, the night before a game you don't suddenly say - 'we're going to change everything' - but a good manager surely coaches his team to play in different ways against different types of sides and has a Plan B and even a Plan C if Plan A isn't working

Tierney is a very good example - Arteta should value Tierney because he can come on and play differently to an MLS, in that he will be more of an orthodox LB going up and down that side and putting in crosses etc, which in certain game states could unlock teams or at least present something different - instead he rejects him because he can’t do the inverted LB thing to which Arteta is so rigidly wedded

A lot of players are more adaptable than you're giving credit for and I think there's enough signs that actually we do have players who could, if encouraged by the coach and the system, transition far more quickly than they do

Managers win by having the best players and are more peripheral to a teams success than at any time in history.

This is blatantly untrue – look at Everton, a load of turgid shite under Dyche and then Moyes comes in and transforms them into a team which is far more positive in its approach, scoring goals and winning games – all without their nominally preferred striker in DCL