Syn and GB. would be rolling in it if they'd placed bets on who would reply to my post.
Opportunity missed.
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Syn and GB. would be rolling in it if they'd placed bets on who would reply to my post.
Opportunity missed.
Dein was on SSN again talking about RVP and trophies; he didn't say anything different from what you'd expect a board member to say.
Neither should it be about the team with the richest owners cherry picking the best players and mopping up the trophies, but it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker
Never said it should be, and in an ideal world both "business" models wouldn't see the light of day in football. However, we are where we are and if I had to choose at gunpoint one of the two models, I have to say that the "sugardaddy" model at least maintains the pretence that what happens on the pitch matters, probably because these rich owners aren't actually acting as businessmen, but are rather owning football clubs in the same way they own art work. True, it's a vanity project for many of them but you get the sense that people like Ambramovich and the Sheikh are true football fans, and therefore understand that treating football clubs like any other business is not right and the fans won't stand for it. People like Kroenke have no interest in football, and are acting purely as businessmen, which is why they keep emphasising the "self sustainable" business model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
No he isn't, although in the current climate I think it's about as good as we can expect.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsMe
I don't agree with this, I do think he's happy with it as he proudly talks about achieving this. Someone not happy with getting 3rd/4th wouldn't talk about it like he does. I'm not saying he doesn't want to win, but he's happy enough with where we are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
As for being as good as we can achieve, I don't agree, investment in the right places will have us challenging, at the end of the day there's only so many players you can play in one game.....if we had the team of 10 years ago we'd be right up there and there's no reason why we couldn't get players of that quality in again IMO.
I think he's happy in the sense that finishing 3rd behind a side who spent a billion to buy the title and a side managed by the best manager arguably in football history isn't that bad an achievement. Certainly not one which could have been achieved were Wenger as incompetent as you maintain. I do think he feels the lack of silverware is a failure though, he certainly should do, and I don't believe for one moment he's happy about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsMe
Investment would certainly see us closer and we should be pushing harder, I'd agree with that. And I agree if we had the quality we had 10 years ago we would be challenging much harder. But I don't agree there's no reason we can't get players of that quality. 10 years ago we didn't have a stadium to pay off, we weren't competing with teams backed by billionaires and we weren't in a climate where those uber-rich clubs could inflate transfer fees and wages to the point where no 'normal' club can compete. I forget the figure exactly but it was something like 117% of City's income that City spent on wages last year. Just wages! Obviously all the transfer fees, not to mention the running of the club, is on top of that. Is it reasonable to lambast Wenger for finishing below a team who can do that?
Wenger certainly has his faults and his stubbornness and princibles (which I don't entirely disagree with but a bit of pragmatism would have been nice) has probably cost us silverware over the last 7 years. But you don't finish in the top few every year by being completely incompetent and the rise and rise of the billionaires have made it far harder to compete and get the quality we once could.
You've done your defensive part for the past 7 years or so and it's getting tiresome. You have the same conversation with Zimm each week and make constant excuses for Wenger. It's the stadium, sugar daddy, the board...whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Man United found a way to beat City last year with a very weak team and City won the league this year on goal difference. City have the money but it is impossible for them to win the league each and every single year just because they buy top stars. That model leads to self destruction. Real Madrid screwed themselves over when they kept on buying superstars. It leads to in fighting and squabbling. Plus, it's very hard for a coach to keep his team focused and hungry season after season when they've won the league. What happened to Real Madrid, also happened to Chelsea when they bought Ballack and co just for the fun of it. City won't win the league every year that way.
Okay, Wenger isn't incompetent, but what is he going to do to turn things around because it's not impossible. Is he the man to push us on? Will he actually stand up to the board and demand change or will he sit comfy while he picks up a pay cheque? He's a big part of this and has actively mislead the fans about our situation and has to be accountable for that. Without him, the Board would never be able to get away with what their doing. He backed their move to raise ticket prices and suggested we needed to do in order to remain competitive. How can that be excused and overlooked?
sorry what? if you think these guys really care about football then there is no point anymore. you say our board just concern themselves with making profit etc, these guys care about that too, if they dont win, they woudl fuck off so quickly because they would be losing money, while the clubs make them money they stay, as soon as they get board or club stops winning they will go. they couldnt give a shit about football, its just like rich bankers having a nice car, its to show off but ultimately once their mates get bored of looking at it they will bin. thye couldnt give two fucks about it. i bet if you ask either the arabs or abromvich, they could barely name their first team squadQuote:
Originally Posted by Joker
Do you think our board could name the first team? And they were all pretty quick to cash in on their shares. They're no better.Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
All these things are factors. Wenger is also a factor. It's tiresome some people on here ignore those factors, act like Wenger is an idiot and that all our problems would disappear were he replaced. He isn't. They wouldn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Utd have the best manager around, arguably the best manager ever. They managed to beat them? Not according to the league table. Goal difference or not, City are champions and beat Utd twice in the league. You're right that they won't win it every year but we now have two billionaire fuelled teams in the league and Utd to compete with. It wasn't like that when Wenger joined.
How do you mean by turn things round? We haven't slumped into mid-table? We're not in decline we're in stagnation. Whether he's the right man to push us on - I agree it's unlikely. Would many managers do better? I doubt it.
In the article Ach posted from The Express (I know, its a rag :blahblah: but still offering a point to debate - so save it)
Wenger had reservations over RvPs history of injuries and that we shouldnt stand in the way of a decent offer. . .so maybe he isnt such a pussy because there is an argument that we will save money by not busting the bank to keep him, maybe that is why the contract was run down. . .maybe the same is being done for Theo, last chance to prove he isnt shit!
Finishing 3rd/4th makes me feel no much better than midtable as a fan tbh. It only suits those that want to ensure that a profit is made every year. I think it is high time now we quit harping on this CL spot as some kind of achievement as all we do is make up numbers in that league - we're not winning sh** there.
Some people call last season 3rd place finish a success, but it really wasn't. We were never in the thick of things and a 3rd /4th place finfish was our major goal as opposed to challenging for the league title which should really be our aim every season. Therefore, even though we limped across the line ahead of Spurs, I will loudly trumpet that they had a more successful season than us, as they were real contenders for the title - you know that thing that a club/competitor set out to do every season, right? - though they faltered on the last lap.
Fact is, we compete in various competitions season after season to which we have failed to get our fingerprints on a single silverware. This is inexcusable and must be seen as nothing less than an indictment on both Board and Manager.
Balls. You'd have been moaning your tits off if we'd finished in mid-table last season.
You are anyway I guess, but moreso.
Man Utd won it the year before when Mancini was first in charge, also City had the period where Mark Hughes was in charge and bought Robinho. Point is, you still need to build a team and get everyone working as a unit. People don't ignore the factors because we've had seasons where we should have won the title but lost points to lesser teams because the pressure got to the team and coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I kind of understand that. For me, the repeated finishing in 3rd/4th when it seems that by just getting rid of one or two bits of dross and spending 10-20 million, we might have won a title or two. Perhaps not, but the the lack of trying that out and the feeling that we could nick a trophy or two is what I find very frustrating.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshGooner
Wenger does generally do a good job but I think he has fallen into a rut and we need him to break out of that.
God have we not sold this **** yet
It's not like the EPL subscribes to round robin format so I can feel excited about my team being in the semi-finals so.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
But it does qualify us for the CL so......Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshGooner
Nope, and thanks to Van Persie's statement every bugger knows he wants to leave this summer.
Any interested party can just let it drag on and on, screwing us over on both price and limiting our ability to get our own business done. On the flipside, the board need to decide how much they're going to hold out for.
Potentially it could be death by 1000 cuts again this summer...
The only hope is that Rvp is willing to go to more than 1 club, we forment a bidding war, prompting buyers to try to get things sown up earlier.
Please re-read my post prior to that one and then maybe you'll then realise that I could care less about a CL qualification. Until we have something to show except making money from the qualification, that sh** is meaningless in my eyes as a fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Such great ambition holding down a CL spot to just be there is:bow:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fist of Lehmann
i'm not sure rvp wanting to leave makes much of a difference to the options available to the club. by saying he wants to go it only confirms the beliefs of a vast majority of people who thought it would turn out that way - probably a 70/30 ratio. so it isn't that much of a shock really, it was more the manner in which it was done.
arsenals options before the statement were to keep or sell him if he refused a new contract and those still remain in place now. in terms of price i think the figures haven't changed either, given the cost of nasri last season. clubs would ideally like to drive the price down but i think playing a waiting game on such a hot property would mean missing out - he'll either be sold or told to sit down and get on with it by the end of this month.
David Dein's view: http://www.skysports.com/video/inlin...884076,00.html
We have sold him twice now.. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=zKksMZdJdgY
To the options? No. To the pretence that he might stay for another year? Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
There is a world of difference between belief and knowledge.
We're in a weak bargaining position, that pretence was pretty much the only card we had.
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/...-leave-arsenalQuote:
Former Arsenal vice-chairman David Dein says he expects Robin van Persie to leave the club this summer but says the Gunners will do "all they can" to keep him.
The Netherlands striker, who has just one year remaining on his contract, signalled his intention not to renew his deal in a statement on his personal website last week.
The 28-year old striker has been strongly linked to a number of clubs including Serie A champions Juventus and Arsenal's Premier League rivals Manchester City.
And, given that the Dutchman could leave on a free transfer at the end of next season, Dein believes it is vital that the north London outfit resolve the issue quickly.
"He has had such a wonderful season and he's been there eight years. He's the club captain, he means a lot to the club and to the fans," he told reporters.
"Once a player comes out and says something like that it's normally the prelude to a departure. But no doubt they will do all they can to try and keep him and make sure he sees out his last year.
"All I would hope, for the stability of the club, is whether he stays or whether he goes, it happens quickly. You don't want to see what happened last year when you had Samir Nasri and Cesc Fabregas stringing it out.
"Clubs this week are going back for pre-season training. You want to have a settled squad. I hope that whatever happens with Robin, it happens quickly."
Time to get Dein back
The guy who's Wenger's best friend?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ach
Is your WUM Radar malfunctioning?
i'm still not convinced of that myself. if a club wants him, they would've come in anyway, whether the decision had been released or not. the whole final year of his contract thing put us in a weak position, his statement hasn't made it any worse from how i see it. and let's not forget that this information was probably shared between agents etc anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fist of Lehmann
Nah, we now know he made Wenger what he is, without him Wenger has failed to deliver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Splinter
Maybe Dein was the mastermind behind all the success after all! Would make sense tbh
pretty sure dein still wants wenger in charge. would you be happy with that?Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsMe
exactly. greedy and after one thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsMe
just like dein when he sold out.
Wenger was actually a decent manager back thenQuote:
Originally Posted by Master Splinter
Maybe he can be again if Dein was back
If Dein keeps him on the straight and narrow and tells him how it's done why not. No more losers attitude and proud to be 4th nonsense!Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
Dein was never greedy, he wanted the club to be the best, sadly clueless PHW and co screwed him over in the name of greed. They then convinced Wenger money was the way to go, the rest as they say is history!Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz
that statement made no difference to his bargaining position. When he didnt sign an extension before that day, it was already known what the deal was. His agent probably put it out there too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fist of Lehmann
Pretty much, after all Juve didn't offer 8 million for no reason. Everyone knew he hadn't signed, every knew he had a year let and therefore they would know how much they are willing to bid for a player with that amount of time left on his contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
no one told that to man city last season then
RVP and his wife are being trolled on twitter:
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/...s-are-trolled/
:lol:
“No need to abuse his wife. She was always good to us.”
:lol:
Was she? I'd never heard of her before.