Post match v Southampton

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

I doubt any thought was put in to how they would operate. Some had probably never played with each other before and I doubt they will again this season.

Wenger chucked this game. No two ways about it.

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He's beyond paranoid about injuries too. You heard him the other day, saying he was preparing to give Alexis a winter break. Alexis will just love that, because he hates playing football. Wenger knows! I don't know why he just doesn't rest all the players all the time and build a bank and an accountant's office in the middle of the pitch. Yes he chucked it, like he does every year. No money or points in this cup, he's never won it, he's never valued it. Maureen will certainly praise the heavens if his rabble win it, because it's a competition that's there to be won. Win it if you can. But always, always try. Anything less is unforgivable. Ten changes. What a tool. Wenger chucks several games a season, these cup games plus CL ties when he thinks (always incorrectly) the job is done. He's a bare minimum guy. Absolute minimum required, whatever he feels he can get away with. He routinely throws a bucket of shit over any momentum we manage to generate. He doesn't understand momentum, he's allergic to it.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

It's a horrible team. They can't play our brand of football and expect a win.

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That's the point i am making though, "brand of football" is a nonsense....within reason you want to entertain your fans but surely unless you have the best players in the world in each position you don't have the luxury anymore of just playing "your game".

Iwobi and Perez are creative players and if you throw the Ox in, instead of Ramsey that should be no excuse whatsoever. A game like this played on a wednesday, well i guess it depends if you can be bothered to win or not. But within reason when you are changing up the side that drastically you tell the players whether they are playing or not a couple of days before and you drill into them a game plan best designed to tackle a team like Southampton.

Who knows we might have lost anyway, but the issue as always is less the result and more the performance and the performances no matter who we've picked has been smelly dog turd for the past two months.

And why?....because unless we are playing a big team and try and sit deep and play on the counter we always play the same way, no matter who we are playing, what their strengths and weaknesses are and no matter who is the name on our team sheet.

I take less issue with the wholesale changes than other people, i think there should be more squad rotation in general so when these drastic changes happen the squad tend to have had more game time and they aren't strangers to each other. And frankly Wenger tends to "beast" too many players anyway, what has happened with Cazorla is laughably predictable.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

That's the point i am making though, "brand of football" is a nonsense....within reason you want to entertain your fans but surely unless you have the best players in the world in each position you don't have the luxury anymore of just playing "your game".

Iwobi and Perez are creative players and if you throw the Ox in, instead of Ramsey that should be no excuse whatsoever. A game like this played on a wednesday, well i guess it depends if you can be bothered to win or not. But within reason when you are changing up the side that drastically you tell the players whether they are playing or not a couple of days before and you drill into them a game plan best designed to tackle a team like Southampton.

Who knows we might have lost anyway, but the issue as always is less the result and more the performance and the performances no matter who we've picked has been smelly dog turd for the past two months.

And why?....because unless we are playing a big team and try and sit deep and play on the counter we always play the same way, no matter who we are playing, what their strengths and weaknesses are and no matter who is the name on our team sheet.

I take less issue with the wholesale changes than other people, i think there should be more squad rotation in general so when these drastic changes happen the squad tend to have had more game time and they aren't strangers to each other. And frankly Wenger tends to "beast" too many players anyway, what has happened with Cazorla is laughably predictable.

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If you believe that the team put out was good enough to win that game, then we should have been able to go out and play our game. If we're going to downplay the quality of Southampton then there should be no reason why we can't play our usual philosophy and win. Brand of football isn't a nonsense. Every coach has a style of play and as much as we criticize Wenger for being rigid, it's rare to find a coach that has that sort of fluid mindset to be play all styles to out match any opponent. But looking at this team and what Wenger picked to start, it's ordinary. I think resting key players was needed but it just exposes the depth of our squad. The players weren't good enough.

Perez played against Southampton on his debut start yet looked ordinary and that was with the first team playing. He's just come back from injury and still adjusting to the league. Iwobi was playing on the left from what I hear. He'd have probably been better as a number 10 but it's difficult to carve out chances in that position when you have low quality players all around. The players were just incapable of playing our game. For me, I see this game sort of game as a chance to integrate fringe players into our system but looks like no thought went into that system works with that team selection.

The sad thing about last night is we can't even hide behind the fact that we made loads of changes to the team because so did Southampton, they had 3 regular starters...the rest were made up of their backup players.

I didn't watch the game last night but the general consensus was that we were comprehensively outplayed.

This season is a replica of the previous one...we only get so far in this tournament because our backup players suck, we only get so far in CL...because we are a tier two team that is guaranteed to finish behind the tier one team in the group.

We only challenge for the league for a period of time before injuries and poor form decimates our season.

It's the same old shite but a different season...it's so mind numbing....:wacko:

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

If you believe that the team put out was good enough to win that game, then we should have been able to go out and play our game. If we're going to downplay the quality of Southampton then there should be no reason why we can't play our usual philosophy and win. Brand of football isn't a nonsense. Every coach has a style of play and as much as we criticize Wenger for being rigid, it's rare to find a coach that has that sort of fluid mindset to be play all styles to out match any opponent. But looking at this team and what Wenger picked to start, it's ordinary. I think resting key players was needed but it just exposes the depth of our squad. The players weren't good enough.

Perez played against Southampton on his debut start yet looked ordinary and that was with the first team playing. He's just come back from injury and still adjusting to the league. Iwobi was playing on the left from what I hear. He'd have probably been better as a number 10 but it's difficult to carve out chances in that position when you have low quality players all around. The players were just incapable of playing our game. For me, I see this game sort of game as a chance to integrate fringe players into our system but looks like no thought went into that system works with that team selection.

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But even with style of play there is a variance to take into account the team your playing, as i've clearly stated we have been playing badly whoever we have picked so what's the bigger issue the personnel or the style?.

Is it going to be easier for a team like Southampton to beat this team rather than our first XI but nevertheless if this side is set out properly and not the airy fairy "believe in your own quality" guff I believe you are more likely to get better results.

And i'm consistent that we should be doing this with the first team as well as a pick n mix side. And generally look at the mistakes that lead to goals, it's often overdwelling on the ball in our own half when in doubt lump it out and that applies across the board.

I cannot be compelled to care that we don't have two extra meaningless fixtures in January with the possibility of a further meaningless fixture at a crucial time in our season, what i do care about is how we perform......and i think the performance was less of a consequence of the team we put out than the dopey old bird sitting on the bench.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

It was shite, a complete mash up of players.

What sort of understanding are Holding and Gabriel supposed to have? They don't even speak the same language. Jenkinson we know is poor, Elmo and Coq are limited, too soon for Jeff, Ramsey is horribly out of form and Perez looks nothing like the standard required 17m or not.

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I don't understand why these players can't have had more specific, intensive training sessions together to try and develop an understanding between themselves. Our first team picks itself but so, strangely, does the league cup team.

Get Gabriel and holding to work on a defensive partnership, see if or how Ramsey clicks with Perez. It's not a rocket science. We could've done this a month in advance ahead of the game

Ramsey cannot click with anyone. He only clicks in his own head and Wengers. I'd play Eboue as a CM before I play Ramsey there. What a turd.

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

Ramsey cannot click with anyone. He only clicks in his own head and Wengers. I'd play Eboue as a CM before I play Ramsey there. What a turd.

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I just don't get it, he slows the play down, he demonstrably makes players around him play worse, he couldn't trap a ball to save his life, his reading of the game is diabolical, his passing is inconsistent at best and he can't tackle.

Even I'm guilty of saying "oh he's been terrible lately" when no, that is his standard setting...even when he plays for Wales you can see that he slows their play down, but it's not as noticeable because Bale aside they don't have as many speed merchants in the side.

I think it's largely as much about confidence, you know he's on a bad run of form because you will see the vast majority of his passing is backwards

He has in the past scored some cracking goals, but so did Denilson

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

But even with style of play there is a variance to take into account the team your playing, as i've clearly stated we have been playing badly whoever we have picked so what's the bigger issue the personnel or the style?.

Is it going to be easier for a team like Southampton to beat this team rather than our first XI but nevertheless if this side is set out properly and not the airy fairy "believe in your own quality" guff I believe you are more likely to get better results.

And i'm consistent that we should be doing this with the first team as well as a pick n mix side. And generally look at the mistakes that lead to goals, it's often overdwelling on the ball in our own half when in doubt lump it out and that applies across the board.

I cannot be compelled to care that we don't have two extra meaningless fixtures in January with the possibility of a further meaningless fixture at a crucial time in our season, what i do care about is how we perform......and i think the performance was less of a consequence of the team we put out than the dopey old bird sitting on the bench.

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Our style definitely isn’t perfect and the first team have their problems but there is a danger of lumping it all in together. With the first team, I’m starting to see what we’re setting out to do with the partnerships across the pitch. It’s all very intricate when it clicks but when an important component of that system breaks (Cazorla) we start to see the struggle.

For this game, I can’t see the thought process behind the selection. I agree to extent about sending the players out with more instructions but I doubt it would have made much difference with the tools we had. It’s like sending a builder out with a hammer and screwdriver without the nails and screws. It looked like an unbalanced team without the vital pieces we need to carve a team open. It’s hard enough getting that out of the first team with one player missing. There wasn’t enough creativity in that squad. No goal threats and a very shaky defensive line up.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I just don't get it, he slows the play down, he demonstrably makes players around him play worse, he couldn't trap a ball to save his life, his reading of the game is diabolical, his passing is inconsistent at best and he can't tackle.

Even I'm guilty of saying "oh he's been terrible lately" when no, that is his standard setting...even when he plays for Wales you can see that he slows their play down, but it's not as noticeable because Bale aside they don't have as many speed merchants in the side.

I think it's largely as much about confidence, you know he's on a bad run of form because you will see the vast majority of his passing is backwards

He has in the past scored some cracking goals, but so did Denilson

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I'm hoping we sell Ramsey this summer whilst we can still get a fair chunk of money for him. He unbalances our team and provides no real use in any position.

If he wants to be a "Lampard" or some kind of second striker then we should put him on the market and see what we can fetch for him because he's not needed at Arsenal.