Arsenal 0-1 West Ham Match Reaction

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Originally Posted by Letters

I just feel there's goals in this side. Admittedly that opinion is starting to fly in the face of evidence, but Nwaneri looks likely, Odegaard can score, Rice chips in here and there.
I basically agree with you though and it's why I think you're being a bit harsh on Arteta. Yes, we are light on squad depth and yes we needed a striker but I'm not sure Arteta is responsible for transfer dealings. And we're still above everyone but Liverpool - they've been lucky with injuries and have had Salah on absolute fire all season.

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Odegaard has scored twice in the league this season (once from the spot) and Rice has scored only the once (which is consummate with his time at West Ham where he would usually only score one league goal a season for them)


Trossard hasn’t been scoring frequently (4 league goals this season, apart from anything he’s not wanting to play for us beyond this season) and expecting goals from Nwaneri on a consistent basis is downright unfair on the lad at 17.

I was scathing of Arteta because I think if this side was fully fit it should have enough to be ahead of Liverpool even with Salah in god mode. How responsible is he for the fact that we haven’t been able to keep what players we have consistently fit? He’s not fully responsible but he has some responsibility.

I’m of the opinion that a draw is better than nothing so I can bemoan Arteta for us playing too expansively and getting caught cold for their goal, I think that is naive when we simply don’t have the goals in the team to come from behind. But also I’m aware that playing more conservatively wouldn’t have guaranteed us a clean sheet which is what I think we will need to guarantee any points on the board from now until May.


I said that I felt with the injuries we had our goal average would go from 2 a game to 1 a game and so far that’s proved to be the case.

2 years ago we bottled it and last year we should consider ourselves unlucky to have not won it.

This year though, we just haven’t been good enough. Something hasn’t felt right all season, we’ve been bumbling along with no real anticipation or sense that something could happen for us. No peaks or troughs, a bit like those years with Wenger where top 4 was probably assured but we weren’t going to do anything else.

Even with a fit attack we were flattering to deceive and failed to chip away at the gap to Liverpool. It is horrible luck that we have an entire front line missing but we’ve needed to strengthen in this area for at least 2 years. Arteta and the club gambled and it’s backfired big time.

Even if we got past PSV we will almost certainly be knocked out by one of the Madrid teams in the quarters so it’s not even like the CL can be considered a possibility. Winning any game right now should be considered an achievement with the current options available to us.

I cannot wait for this season to end because it’s been the least enjoyable since 20/21.

Arteta won’t be sacked for now but I think it’s certain that if the club do not pour all its resources into the attack this summer then he will be a dead man walking.

One thing I must admit I'd forgotten is how close Liverpool were last year - after 30 games they were 2 points ahead of us.
After 33 games they were 3 points behind us and they had a game in hand.
That's the one they lost against Everton and then they drew with West Ham, effectively removing themselves from the race.

So maybe this title isn't as unexpected as it should have been. I was pooh-poohing their chances and didn't feel they had the legs for the long haul. Had they had similar injuries as us, or had Salah not been in god mode then I'd probably have been right. But everything has fallen in to place for them with City falling off a hilarious cliff and us labouring all season I guess it wasn't hard for them to canter away from us, especially with the injuries which have hobbled us.

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Originally Posted by Letters

One thing I must admit I'd forgotten is how close Liverpool were last year - after 30 games they were 2 points ahead of us.
After 33 games they were 3 points behind us and they had a game in hand.
That's the one they lost against Everton and then they drew with West Ham, effectively removing themselves from the race.

So maybe this title isn't as unexpected as it should have been. I was pooh-poohing their chances and didn't feel they had the legs for the long haul. Had they had similar injuries as us, or had Salah not been in god mode then I'd probably have been right. But everything has fallen in to place for them with City falling off a hilarious cliff and us labouring all season I guess it wasn't hard for them to canter away from us, especially with the injuries which have hobbled us.

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Salah has got more goals for them this season than he got in the whole of last season. I dismissed their chances because I thought they massively overachieved which was attributable to Klopp, their collapse as we might call it was for me gravity reasserting itself.

The Dutchman has done well because he’s put his ego aside and not tried to instil his own languid philosophy into this Liverpool side, he’s stuck to the Klopp script religiously since September

This season? They’ve been able to rely on Salah to get them out of all kinds of scrapes. I clearly underestimated his ability to have that kind of season at the age he is.

This will be a title that’s been won practically single handedly in a way we’ve not seen in football since Maradonna with Argentina in 1986.


The rest of Liverpool’s players? They are ok nothing special. Van Dijk isn’t the defender he was, Allison isn’t the goalkeeper he was.

I didn't dismiss Liverpool's chances because I look at what's going on in front of me instead of looking at stats and underrating certain players - I also knew Klopp ran them into the ground and it was apparent very quickly that Slot was about getting them to be a bit more pragmatic and less heavy metal football

These so called 'terrible' performances aren't always that bad and we would have loved to see a terrible 2-0 home win yesterday wouldn't we?

Liverpool may not be the best team ever but they're better than people are giving them credit for, yes some of it's down to Salah but others are contributing too. They have some very good players, Diaz, Gakpo (and that's not a windup, it's just true I can give you the figures again if you want), also Van Dyke and some good younger players too. Injuries (or lack of) have unquestionably helped them big time though.

Would they win the league without Salah - possibly not but they would be closer than some people think, with the number of opportunities they'd get, a decent forward in his area would still get some of those goals and remember he takes pels as well

Oh no I genuinely believe you think Gakpo is a good player, otherwise you wouldn’t harp on so much about him.

But I think it’s clear that without Salah that Liverpool would be nowhere this season (competing for top four rather than a title challenge). He’s scored by himself 40% of their goals.

It renders any discussion of any other player in that team largely worthless. They aren’t terrible players…I like Diaz even though he can be a bit of a headless chicken at times. They are good/decent players but as I say nothing special. Diaz is probably the only player other than Salah id take at Arsenal.

Salah scored 16 goals in the whole of last season in the league, he’s scored 25 in 27 so far this time around…there’s your difference.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Oh no I genuinely believe you think Gakpo is a good player, otherwise you wouldn’t harp on so much about him.

But I think it’s clear that without Salah that Liverpool would be nowhere this season (competing for top four rather than a title challenge). He’s scored by himself 40% of their goals.

It renders any discussion of any other player in that team largely worthless. They aren’t terrible players…I like Diaz even though he can be a bit of a headless chicken at times. They are good/decent players but as I say nothing special. Diaz is probably the only player other than Salah id take at Arsenal.

Salah scored 16 goals in the whole of last season in the league, he’s scored 25 in 27 so far this time around…there’s your difference.

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yes Salah is head-and-shouders above anyone else in the league, again he does take pels which makes a difference, I'm not arguing with that though but if on the right they had someone just as good as a Gakpo or Diaz, they'd still be a very good side

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Originally Posted by Mac76

yes Salah is head-and-shouders above anyone else in the league, again he does take pels which makes a difference, I'm not arguing with that though but if on the right they had someone just as good as a Gakpo or Diaz, they'd still be a very good side

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They’d be in and around the top four which is where I thought they’d be at the start of the season because I had no reason to think Salah would be at the level he’s proved to be at

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I think we are honestly over complicating things in a way that we don’t need to.

I think there are parallels with Man City for sure, in that you can’t remove key players from a team and expect anything positive from it.

As for our vulnerability to counter attacks, it really is as simple as Arteta’s insistence on playing Partey at 6. It doesn’t work and it leaves our centre backs exposed.


There’s no point discussing a system change that will allow us to become more efficient going forward, because we simply don’t have the players to facilitate this. Even if (as we should do) we swap Rice and Partey around it’s not going to exponentially speed things up. The reason as I kept trying to explain to NQ the last couple of days we become slow and ponderous in the opponents half is that we lack the ability and confidence to dribble past them or execute a swift pass and move style. I suspect strongly that Odegaard is not fit, his constant decision to play more conservatively I suspect is to avoid further injury.

The one thing I noticed is that we were trying to utilise Merino as a typical centre forward by sending crosses into the box, but West Ham are good at defending crosses. We didn’t have an alternative strategy, and the only player with electric pace was Nwaneri who was marked out of the game and eventually went off with a knock (hopefully just a precaution).


In terms of recruitment this summer I think as well as a striker and a winger we clearly do need another ball playing midfielder. The alternative this season is to move Odegaard to 8 (assuming he’s fit enough to even play which I highly doubt) move Saka to 10 (when he’s back) and Nwaneri to the wing.

Playing Rice and Partey against West Ham at home is unnecessary (or at least it would be without the injury pile up we have)

But as for Saturday, ultimately we could have played more conservatively and come away with a point or a scrappy win, but really the result simply reflects only one thing…the paucity of choice available to us currently

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As I say, I think that we resemble Citeh in more ways than simply losing key players. Both teams have done so, but I do think that this exposes a flaw in their approach. A team with the resources of Citeh should not have been undone to the extent they have been by the loss of Rhodri. Maybe he was papering over the cracks (ageing squad etc), but by the same token, they continue to misfire after they spent big in January - buying a very good player in Nico Gonzalez to cover for Rhodri. They also (unlike us) have one of the best strikers in the world in Haaland.

I think that football is moving beyond the Guardiola (and Arteta) possession model, and is becoming more faster and more direct, focussing on transitions to stretch the opposition. Liverpool are exploiting this, but Newcastle; Villa; Forest are also playing in this way. In Forest's case, I have read some interesting stuff about how leaving the lion's share of possession to the opposition is combating fatigue and player burn out. Football evolves quickly, and Guardiola (and his protege Arteta) suddenly look vulnerable. You are right, we don't have the players to play a different way - but this is even more of a worry for me. Our limited recruitment over the Summer - and indeed over the last few transfer windows is the antithesis of the game that many of our competitors are making work for them.

I fear that trying to buy more players with the technical ability to cope with a demanding 'system-based' style of play may not only be difficult, but that the style of play itself may be past its sell by date.

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Originally Posted by IBK

I do think we have bottled it. Maybe not by failing to win the league, but certainly when it has come to opportunities to at least put pressure on Liverpool. The manager as good as said so much about Saturday's game, and we did not play like title winners against the likes of Bournemouth; Fulham; Everton; Brighton; Newcastle (not to mention our cup exits). We have been profligate when it comes to scoring from clear chances throughout, and have had more defensive lapses and mistakes than I can remember for a long time. I am not saying that we have a God given right to win every game, but injuries or not our players have not stepped up when needed too many times. When Odegard was hiding on Saturday, when we played with no intent or drive and simply looked limp; when once again we were at sixes and sevens for their goal it's difficult not to reach the conclusion that we wilted when it counted. And this is by no means the first time we have been found wanting when Liverpool have dropped points. While admittedly this has not been the case throughout, too many times I have not seen a team with the fight needed to sustain a title challenge. Objectively, a review of our season won't focus on injuries first and foremost. It will show a team of players who, while they may have faced insurmountable odds in winning the league with key injuries and lack of player investment, failed to reach their potential.

And BTW I specifically said that we did not bottle it last season.

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We've DEFINITELY bottled it, on almost every occasion that mattered. As usual - barring last season which could now almost be viewed as a last hurrah for this squad. Last season was the big push on the back of the big philosophy brought from city by Arteta. Wenger went over the top and on to the finish line with big bastards, fast bastards, technical bastards and the odd dirty scrote who did what needed to be done. But he let that all wither into the namby pamby, dainty dancers that ALMOST had the prowess of Barcelona but not quite, and the not quite made all the difference. Look at the squad under Arteta, it bears no resemblance to Wenger's successful squads. Bears a lot of resemblance to his later squads though, squads that were world famous for collapsing under the slightest pressure.

By pressure I don't just mean league placings and crucial, must-win opportunities to capitalise on our rivals mistakes. I also mean facing the pressures of the unexpected, the games where the opponent stubbornly refuses to submit to our philosophy. I think we're the most successful team over the past few years when measured against just the top 6, aren't we? Or we're certainly up there. That's because the top 6 will play us at chess, which we like. The bottom 6? They play draughts which is not our game. Liverpool were so boring yesterday, yet they won the match by reverting to lumping it up the field and running after it - something we find vulgar and impure. City had Marmoush tearing around the place, constantly making the run, calling for the ball. He hardly ever got it. Not their way, not their game. Foden might as well have been on the bench, they didn't use him, didn't need him.

We've joined the party as the last guests are clearing out. People mention the 700 mill invested, which isn't even a real figure and doesn't take into account the players we let go, including those strikers that didn't fit our pristine model. We bottled it when it came to making the real investments at the proper time when they would have counted, when beers would be left in the fridge and there would be girls to dance with. Now, with the lights going out, we're all kitted up in Pep fashion raring to go.

We also bottle it every time we step on a pitch against a team that won't accommodate us. We don't have the players, we won't change the tactics, we won't beat them at their own game like Wenger's dirty bastards liked (actually liked) to do. For anyone to say we don't have the technical ability to change our game, be more direct, introduce some urgency is crazy considering we geared up the whole team to be a precise, technical weapon. We have the that capability but the manager won't compromise, adapt, adjust. The Evertons, West Hams, all bottled. What else could it be called? The chance to take the risks necessary to win, spurned. The blind belief that over 38 games, eventually, our methodical application would win the day.

Everywhere you look we bottled it. In the transfer market, the philosophy, the tactics, adapting to the opponent, all of it.