Wenger Referendum: Yes Or No

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Originally Posted by Maestro

BLAAAAAAAMMMMM!!!!!

Chuck Kos in there and that's four world class players. Build a decent squad around that and apply some tactics, you're good to go.

Wenget is finished, defending him at this point is just moronic.

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And yet people still do, whilst the vociferous "Wenger knows best" voice is declining i still don't think there is great appetite amongst the majority of the fan base to see him turfed out.

GW as we have seen in the Wenger referendum thread has pretty much turned on the man, whilst we still enjoy good performances and victories i don't think there is realistically anyone left here who thinks he is the man to take us forward.

At the same time, i do spend enough time on other Arsenal forums to recognise that GW is probably one of the most Anti Wenger boards in existence (this is not to say that people who hold this opinion are wrong, i certainly don't believe he can take us forward), but i think we have to accept that fans that still have a great deal of faith in him aren't just a few deluded individuals...there are a great number of them.

Loyalty, or the notion of it. Faithful dogs who lie by the deceased until they starve to death themselves. Loyalty is good, but not when applied to modern football. We've just had a fun week watching the most senior figures in the game feathering their nests in public. What an exhibition. Football's not a thing you want to be wasting loyalty on because it's now in the hands of those who won't give anything back. Nothing, not the steam off their piss. It's difficult for fans who remember tribal loyalty, even more difficult for fans who haven't sussed the game has changed. People aren't idiots for wanting to stick by their club, they just don't realise the club is no longer there. It will take different individuals different amounts of time to let it go. We shouldn't lose respect for the past though because that stuff really happened and we were all part of it. It was the brilliance of that which attracted the money squids and the chavs and the gypos and the Bayerns and Blatters and the spoiled bitches in their £230,000 cars.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Loyalty, or the notion of it. Faithful dogs who lie by the deceased until they starve to death themselves. Loyalty is good, but not when applied to modern football.

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All very laudable, however i wasn't discussing the merits of loyalty...merely the reality of the situation.

That as much as we see the necessity of Wenger going as a "no brainer" quite a large amount of the fan base don't quite see it like that.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

And yet people still do, whilst the vociferous "Wenger knows best" voice is declining i still don't think there is great appetite amongst the majority of the fan base to see him turfed out.

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It is possible to think we need to move on from Wenger and also think he's not a clueless bumbling French ****.
So yes, I will defend him against the worst of the abuse he gets on here.

This season has been a bit of a balls up but we are still 3rd and we're in the FA Cup quarter finals - I was quite bullish about that game until Wednesday, now I fear an all too predictable capitulation but we'll see. After that game we could be 3rd and in the FA Cup semi-finals.

IMO it's a bit harsh the abuse Wenger's getting on here the season after we've just won the FA Cup although he certainly deserves criticism for the way we've contrived to sign well in the summer and still get worse overall. We seem to have been picking up a bit of late (again, until Wednesday) but it's not been good enough.

It was fair to give Wenger a chance to get through the stadium move restrictions before making a judgement. It was fair to give him a year when the financial situation eased and a bit of money came on tap. Fair enough to give him a second year to see the results of his spending. Would be idiotic to give him a third because, if anything, the situation is now worse. We have a better squad but we're still blowing the big games we should be winning. Not just last week but that game against Utd, or the painfully predictable draw against Liverpool. Same old problems. It has to be down to the manager. He's the constant.

As a football man he's not a "bumbling idiot", obviously. But on match day, when he's called into action to manage affairs on the pitch too often he's made look a complete idiot by his opposite number. The Monaco coach hauled him through the streets, into the village square, stuck him in the stocks and pelted him with shit in the most recent example. Wenger actually states the players were not mentally prepared. That's not acceptable. You don't need money to be mentally prepared. Chavs and gypo billions don't prevent the team being mentally prepared. Injuries don't prevent it. Refs don't prevent it. He admits he's failed to take care of one of the most basic tasks.

If we want 4th place every season and a run to the last 16 of the CL then we have the right man in charge. We know we'll get that at least (and at most) with Wenger. But what was the point of the stadium move if that's all we're aiming for as a club? The board has to decide what it wants. A nice cosy earner every year or to compete at the top of football. If they are in it for the football then Wenger has to go. If Wenger stays then the fans have their answer.

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Originally Posted by Letters

It is possible to think we need to move on from Wenger and also think he's not a clueless bumbling French ****.
So yes, I will defend him against the worst of the abuse he gets on here.

This season has been a bit of a balls up but we are still 3rd and we're in the FA Cup quarter finals - I was quite bullish about that game until Wednesday, now I fear an all too predictable capitulation but we'll see. After that game we could be 3rd and in the FA Cup semi-finals.

IMO it's a bit harsh the abuse Wenger's getting on here the season after we've just won the FA Cup although he certainly deserves criticism for the way we've contrived to sign well in the summer and still get worse overall. We seem to have been picking up a bit of late (again, until Wednesday) but it's not been good enough.

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He's finished can't you see that, time and time again he' been shown up and left wanting, how many more times do you need to see it happen before you finally accept that as a top level manager he can cut it.

I'm tired of seeing these horrible defeats we have to put up with several times a season now, they use to be things we only saw once in a blue moon now they happen several times a season, last season we suffered a fair few humiliations...yes we got 4th, but when you look at the competition and how they have performed it really doesn't say a lot, this season we're 3rd but every team bar Chelsea and Man City have had a season close to disastrous (of those fighting for 4th) by their standards, we owe the fact we're 3rd to the fact it's been a very poor quality PL so far, not to the fact we've played well and earnt it.....when will it all end?

Not being an absolute bumbling idiot is the only tenable defence of Wenger here. Faint, faint praise I think. Whenever the eyes of the world are on Wenger and his team they almost always are guaranteed to balls it up. The whole French nation was probably tuned in to watch that match. If I were him and Giroud I would keep my trap shut for at least 3 months. He has no credibility left even in his home country. No wonder French television dropped him from commentary. People will be asking themselves "What insight can this king of fk ups give us into top flight football".

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Originally Posted by Özim

this season we're 3rd but every team bar Chelsea and Man City have had a season close to disastrous (of those fighting for 4th) by their standards, we owe the fact we're 3rd to the fact it's been a very poor quality PL so far, not to the fact we've played well and earnt it.....

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We're all sick of the endless Groundhog Day and we pretty much all agree that we need to move on from Wenger.
But would some of the names being banded around actually be better?

Last season you went on and on about Rodgers but Liverpool have been nowhere this season. They are picking up now so they could yet finish top 4 but they didn't sustain their title challenge to the end last year and they've not challenged this year. Suarez being on insane form and having no European football last year did help them, they've struggled to sustain let alone build on last season.

Klopp was hailed as the answer but this year Dortmund have spent much of this season fighting relegation.

Some people were even touting Moyes a couple of years back :lol:

Wenger is, if nothing else, consistent. I think you underestimate how hard that is. Perennial top 4 finishes aren't the be all and end all - although they were vital in the early days of the Emirates when we had to get the CL income - but he's been a safe pair of hands and will probably continue to be. You seem to be under the impression that Wenger is so clueless that any idiot will come along and be better. I don't believe that's the case.

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Originally Posted by Letters

We're all sick of the endless Groundhog Day and we pretty much all agree that we need to move on from Wenger.
But would some of the names being banded around actually be better?

Last season you went on and on about Rodgers but Liverpool have been nowhere this season. They are picking up now so they could yet finish top 4 but they didn't sustain their title challenge to the end last year and they've not challenged this year. Suarez being on insane form and having no European football last year did help them, they've struggled to sustain let alone build on last season.

Klopp was hailed as the answer but this year Dortmund have spent much of this season fighting relegation.

Some people were even touting Moyes a couple of years back :lol:

Wenger is, if nothing else, consistent. I think you underestimate how hard that is. Perennial top 4 finishes aren't the be all and end all - although they were vital in the early days of the Emirates when we had to get the CL income - but he's been a safe pair of hands and will probably continue to be. You seem to be under the impression that Wenger is so clueless that any idiot will come along and be better. I'm don't believe that's the case.

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Your metronomic same as always defence of Wenger as a safe pair of hands convinces few. In fact you and Ollie need to do a name swap as even he has come to see reality for what is is a never ending cycle of running faster to stay in the same place. Few managers are guaranteed to succeed. Ancelotti was great at Milan for a few seasons then stagnated badly and was kicked out. Koeman tanked badly at Valencia. Yet here he is now. Even Moyes, rightly derided after his United debacle is doing better than anyone expected at Sociedad. Bottom line is Wenger is 65, peaked as a manager 10 years ago and is declining rapidly before our very eyes. We could keep spending (frittering) more millions to stay 4th but nowadays that position is mostly a prestige trinket more than anything else. The one thing most people accept is that we will never win the CL under Wenger. He will always be found out in that higher calibre of manager. So our only reason for being it is the money, the prestige and the power of attracting players. Players who will soon move on after seeing our no hoper reality for themselves. We have seen it before. What perturbs me the most is that 4th place no longer guarantees anything. 10 years ago the EPL only had 3 places. The more we tank in Europe along with City and Pool, the more likely we will see us revert to 3 participants only. Everything is transient. We cannot be afraid of failing and so never make a change. Wenger loves this job, left to his own devices he will be here another decade. The excuse that other managers could be worse is not viable. Right now I would take any of 15 coaches in the Premier league ahead of Wenger.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

Your metronomic same as always defence of Wenger as a safe pair of hands convinces few.

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I'm not trying to convince anyone of that or debating it. He has been a safe pair of hands. We have qualified for the CL every year under him and while I accept we'll never win it under him you say later in your post the 'only' reason for being in it...and then go on to list 3 very important reasons. Clubs are spending silly money to try and break into the top 4 and none have consistently succeeded, apart from Wenger. I think we all agre he is not the right man to push on but it's disrespectful (and clearly untrue) to think that any idiot can do better (I'm not sure if anyone has actually said that but the way people talk about him on hear implies they think that) and Wenger deserves credit for what he's done for us and if he left at the end of the season (I doubt he will) he'd leave us with a very good squad and in great shape financially. I saw today that we have a surplus of over £100m, Utd have debts of over £300m. Wenger has his faults which make us all want to throttle him sometimes but he isn't the clueless buffoon some on here make out.