Summer Transfer Speculation and Shit

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

i dont get your first paragraph. how hard is it to understand that laudrup defies continuity because he hasn't been anywhere for more than a few years while moyes has been at a club for 10. if you cant grasp how moyes signifies the concept of continuity but laudrup doesnt, then i cant keep repeating it. swansea signify continuity, yes e.g. they bring in managers that continue their philosophy. but laudrup doesnt. detach them from each other. he has had everything done for him; he came in, sat in the seat and put his foot on the pedal. moyes had to make the car, fuel it then ease onto the pedal.

i see the point about confining moyes to finance but isnt that important nowadays? it links back to the contextuality issue mentioned earlier, each club has its own problems and should be judged on that. you cant compare arsenal to everton because you'll always say 'moyes shouldnt come here because he hasnt won a trophy with everton'. its like saying 'my car is better than yours even though my budget was x2 of yours'. its incomparable. but i feel like im just repeating myself i.e. he's working miracles on a shoestring budget etc so maybe we'll just leave this debate, clearly we're at loggerheads.

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You said he completely defies the meaning of continuity though. The meaning of continuity (yes in its pure dictionary definition) is in fact enhanced more by Laudrup's time at Swansea because there has been a change in manager, when disruption is more likely to come. Regardless of whatever happens from now on, he is the manager that has got them in to Europe, after one season.

Also, am I right to think that whatever happens (assuming it is positive) with Everton from after Moyes has gone that the new manager would not get much credit from you?

I disagree on what you say about Arsenal & Everton as a comparison, judging each club in its own self-contained box of criterions just means that a lot more defence for Wenger can be sought than what you would ordinarily say. You mention that you can't compare Everton to Arsenal but can you (financially presumably) compare Arsenal to Man City or Chelsea? Even Man Utd? Saying he is working miracles is exactly what is said about Wenger by the very same people in the media and many non Arsenal supporters. Yes we are Champions League level and they are not but again, as I said before, the same situations with money can be applied and what is expected can be changed accordingly; it doesn't make the discussion any less valid.

Well I want to go back to pacey, powerful, technical football and get away from boring shit tippy tappy. Certainly I don't want to see tedious percentage footie so I regret to inform you Moyes won't be invited to be the next Arsenal manager. It wasn't even a difficult decision. I don't want that grim, joyless, safe and dull pair of hands here. We need to move on don't we? Not consolidate the shit we have to put up with at the present. It would really help if the miserly yank would fuck off too.

@maccy

he defies continuity. swansea dont. simple.

and why shouldnt you compare arsenal to man city? rich owner, check. big stadium, check. cash reserves, check. just because they are pumped by 'dirty' money and we choose not to spend any doesnt mean they are streets ahead of us. we have the money but choose to piss around, if we werent underutilising our resources so much we'd be up there challenging. for example, we finished with 70 points last year, we'll probably finish with roughly the same this year. if we kept van persie he would've probably got us an extra 10 points over the course of the season and we end up nearer 80 points. you're challenging for the title with that. everton are nowhere near doing that.

thats why i dont think arsenal and everton are comparable but it is much more complex than that, as you say. it all comes down to opinions, it wouldnt be fun if we all agreed now would it.

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

he defies continuity. swansea dont. simple.

and why shouldnt you compare arsenal to man city? rich owner, check. big stadium, check. cash reserves, check. just because they are pumped by 'dirty' money and we choose not to spend any doesnt mean they are streets ahead of us. we have the money but choose to piss around, if we werent underutilising our resources so much we'd be up there challenging. for example, we finished with 70 points last year, we'll probably finish with roughly the same this year. if we kept van persie he would've probably got us an extra 10 points over the course of the season and we end up nearer 80 points. you're challenging for the title with that. everton are nowhere near doing that.

thats why i dont think arsenal and everton are comparable but it is much more complex than that, as you say. it all comes down to opinions, it wouldnt be fun if we all agreed now would it.

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Oh ok.

You seem to be thinking that I am expecting Everton to be challenging for the title so it can prove Moyes has done something worthy, that's not what I am saying. If you look at their results though, they could do better - if they could show this Europa League level this season, why couldn't they last season at the start (and in seasons before that)? Why has Moyes had so many poor results against sides that earn a lot less and have spent a lot less than they do? Why did they finish eleventh in the season he spent the most money with them? These are all reasonable questions that don't even need a comparison or lack there of to Arsenal, though those same questions are just as reasonably asked of about Wenger.

Man City haven't just had money, they've had money with basically no restriction, self imposed or otherwise. I know it will probably taken as a criticism of them but it's not, it's just truthful and in terms of us winning the league, that makes it very unlikely. It doesn't mean we can't be successful in other competitions though and that's at the crux of things with Moyes too.

I'd quite like to buy Maccy a beer.

Several, actually.

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

i dont get your first paragraph. how hard is it to understand that laudrup defies continuity because he hasn't been anywhere for more than a few years while moyes has been at a club for 10. if you cant grasp how moyes signifies the concept of continuity but laudrup doesnt, then i cant keep repeating it. swansea signify continuity, yes e.g. they bring in managers that continue their philosophy. but laudrup doesnt. detach them from each other. he has had everything done for him; he came in, sat in the seat and put his foot on the pedal. moyes had to make the car, fuel it then ease onto the pedal.

i see the point about confining moyes to finance but isnt that important nowadays? it links back to the contextuality issue mentioned earlier, each club has its own problems and should be judged on that. you cant compare arsenal to everton because you'll always say 'moyes shouldnt come here because he hasnt won a trophy with everton'. its like saying 'my car is better than yours even though my budget was x2 of yours'. its incomparable. but i feel like im just repeating myself i.e. he's working miracles on a shoestring budget etc so maybe we'll just leave this debate, clearly we're at loggerheads.

one last thing regarding a comment someone made earlier: "Moyes has a different attitude and believes it's the superstar players that dictates the way a team plays. There is a fundamental difference to the way he thinks about football and what we've been building here with Wenger". im sorry but that is absolute rubbish. the one thing people always associate with everton is their workman, labouring type attitude. how everyone puts in a shift etc. to suggest moyes or everton are dictated by superstars is absolute tosh and just plainly untrue. how can people make such rubbish up? :lol: the problem with everton has probably been their lack of superstars to really push them on a bit further. what absolute tosh :haha:

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You misunderstand. This is from Moyes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/b...on-david-moyes

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He states: "Folk think I'm defensive but I was brought up on the best attacking team ever in terms of style and what was demanded, Glasgow Celtic. I have also played under coaches who showed me another style. I want my team in the opponents' half having shots. I've only been brought up that way and no other way. But you can only win games with the tools you have available and if you don't have them you need to find other ways of winning. Otherwise I wouldn't still be in the job.

"I didn't have the tools to win that way five or six years ago. What I have had is time to get to the point where I am now being asked about being entertaining."

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You can win with flair but we won a lot of games 1-0 that year. We were consistent, hard to beat. There are different ways of skinning a cat.

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I saw an interview with him on Football Focus this year and he expanded on this point about not having the players to play attractive football. It probably stems back to Gerrard's criticism of Everton being a long ball team. It makes sense to do what you have to do to survive and work with what you have. But it's taken him years to change his approach and Everton still aren't that great to watch now. They were very defensive against us when the Top 4 spot was on the line and both teams needed the points. Compare his philosophy to Wenger's. Arsene took boring '1 nil Arsenal' and installed his attacking philosophy over night and he had us playing champagne football on the cheap. Old tools in the box were sharpened up and he had our wingbacks going forward with every player keeping the ball on the deck and not hoofing it long when back in defence. He taught ball retention and keeping it simple. Great attacking football.

Now Laudrop has similar a philosophy.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/19346728

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"You can't ask players to do things that Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi are doing, but you can ask the easy things. Sometimes the easiest things in football - a simple pass five or eight yards - can be the most effective. That, everybody can learn and everybody can improve."

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I like that sort of attitude. No rubbish about not having the tools to play that sort of way and I'm sure I've heard Fat Sam and Dirty Harry use the same sort of excuse. We used to hear the excuse all the time when teams would kick lumps out of us, park the bus and hoof it long. I have a lot of respect for the new managers that have come to the Prem and haven't played that way. I have a problem with managers that use finances as an excuse to explain their brand of football. It doesn't fit with what we've built here with Arsene. I give him a lot of stick but he you have to respect what he's done here and we should expand on it. Someone like Laudrop is from a similar background and Moyes just isn't.

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Originally Posted by Grimandi's Perm

I'd quite like to buy Maccy a beer.

Several, actually.

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Sounds good.

Booze. :bow:

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

Booze. :bow:

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:sick:

I feel fuckin awlful.

Me too :lol:

Time to get bacon on.

Laudrup would approve.