Match Reaction Vs Wigan

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Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)

And it's interesting to note that the biggest moaners have barely posted here during our good run, you can bet you're bottom dollar the first setback or two and they'll be back like a shot. It's prett wearying.

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For you it might have to be because you're a mod that needs to see all posts. For us mortals, we have the ignore function on this new board which allows you to skip over the pointless posts.

I think - to a certain extent - it's quite natural for there to be more to talk about when we're doing badly. How many regular posters have we got - 25? Well then we have 25 football managers that have an opinion about every substitution, tackle (no homo), interview....quite frankly, there are not many problems left to solve at the moment. I would say that Wenger hasn't solved the problems yet, but the problems are being solved and we're looking a more solid side as games go on. But when we do badly, there will be plenty of problems to solve and we'll all have our little theories.

Wenger out. Let's get Coyle and bring in Cahill with him.

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Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)

The ridiculous hyperbole and disrespect/abuse Wenger got which IMO was over the top and unwarranted.No-one thought things were rosy in the summer or early season and I feared Wenger had lost the dressing room but as much as Wenger deserves criticism for the tail end of last season, the summer and the start of this season he deserves credit for turning it around and we look like a team again and the players actually seem to be playing for Wenger and each other.

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Wenger deserved all he got. Everyone could see we had an absolute shocking last few months of the season and imo he should have walked in the summer. He didn't so we thought he must have finally seen sense and realised his way has been a failure. He didn't. He did nothing in the summer to fix our blatant and obvious problems knowing full well we had a CL qualifier and Liverpool and Mancs coming up in August. We scraped through the qualifier thankfully but as expected, got our asses handed to us by Liverpool and the less said about the Manc debacle, the better. He then realises that fans are turning and he panic buys and gets in some Pub Teamers and Mertesacker who I actually rate so kudos on Wenger for getting a signing right for once. Since then we had the Blackburn horror show and Spuds kicking our butts. Whilst we are on a decent run now, its happened before. Every season we go on a good run only to lose one game and then lose it mentally. We aren't winning the league this season. Its unlikely we'll finish top 4 either as I doubt Chelsea will remain as they are. CL we have no chance in which leaves the FA Cup. If we manage to avoid the Manc clubs and thankfully one will be out soon and get the luck of the draw then maybe we can do something there.Wenger has apparently already said he's not looking to get anyone in this January which if true and it probably is means he has learnt nothing. We need quality players. His way has failed. Move with the times or move on

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Originally Posted by GB.

Nope. Zim and yourself are not realists. You are pessimists. You're always on the lookout for the worst possible scenario, and whenever a setback happens you validate your opinion. Ach on the other hand is an extremist. He has completely veered from Wenger and his team can do no wrong to the exact opposite - nothing inbetween whatsoever - a complete black and white world pretty much devoid of thought and objective analysis.

There are many things wrong with this team and contrary to what you would like, there are no easy answers, but there are positive too and anyone who has noticed what is going on can see that early assertions that Wenger has lost the dressing room (myself included) have been proved wrong. This team is working hard for Wenger and they are growing in belief. The only thing remaining to be determined is, can they do this at the business end of the season where so many Arsenal teams have failed in recent years. Regardless of what anyone wants, this Board is not getting rid of Wenger during the season, but if we do witness another business end collapse then I hope he goes. Right now though, I am pleased with what I'm seeing and am more optimistic than I have been for a number of years - a position I would not have envisioned back in May.

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For the first highlighted part, that is true unfortunately.. I cant talk for Zimm but I can tell you how I think: I want AW to prove me wrong and make this team title challengers but reality is different. We have been mismanaged for years now and realistically we are only fighting for a top 4 spot and have given up on even thinking about being champions of England... this is what Zimm, myself and a few other pessimists (as you say) have been saying. So unfortunately when what we have been saying does come true, we come out with the "I told you so" line... does proving right that we are not championship material make me happy? Does folding in March/April season after season due to non-signings, injuries etc every season make me happy? NO! I'd rather MS, vpig's version of events come out true and I can come here and apologize to every optimist! Heck, I'll buy you guys drinks and call you all master for a year!!**

As for the second highlighted part from your post... what are you optimistic about? I am very happy with how the team is doing but I can again see us winning nothing and somehow falling way behind the two Manchester clubs to be even competing until financial fair play kicks in i.e. unless the Arabs and Russians find a way around it (which they will for sure). Since our last trophy, I was most optimistic about 06 season coz of CL final then I was optimistic in 07/08 season when we led the table by 5 points in Feb, I was optimistic last season till March... as of now, I am not optimistic about what we are going to achieve. However, I am very very happy with the way the team is playing and fighting for each other. They are not as talented as previous years but they look to be playing for the club and fans. I am distinguishing between happiness and optimism, while you may be confused and taking your happiness for optimism (?)

** Only one round of drinks that are on specials that night :lol:

why does it matter what people say, as long as they are not being abusive? if you don't like the post, ignore and move on. i think it's far sadder to complain about someone else complaining - that makes no sense at all

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Originally Posted by Ach

Wenger deserved all he got.

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No, he didn't. He deserved criticism, IMO he deserved to be sacked for the collapse at the tail end of last season but the disrespect and abuse? No, he didn't deserve that.

We didn't get our arses handed to us by Liverpool by the way, I went to that game and we matched them that day and but for Frimpong's over-exuberance we'd have got a point IMO. The Utd debacle...well, no-one is defending that and if it's the thing that made Wenger or the board or both see that we needed reinforcements then it was a blessing in disguise :ollie:

It's laughable to call the panic buys (I agree they were panic buys) pub teamers, several of the players we bought have started to make a real difference to the squad and you can see that in both the way we're playing and the results. We should have conducted all that business at the start of the summer, not the end, but overall I think we did some good business on deadline day.

Spurs did not kick our butts. I didn't see that game but everyone I know who did says it was an even game which we were a bit unlucky to lose - that final part was emailed to me by a Spurs fan whose judgement I generally trust. Spurs are a good side this year, frustratingly, their record this season is excellent and losing narrowly away to them is not a disaster. The Blackburn result was a bad one but it was early season when confidence was shot and before the new signings had much time to make any impact. Since then we've gone on a fantastic run, not a 'decent' run.

I'm not sure whether we'll finish top 4 but if we keep playing like we have more recently then we've got a chance and so long as the players give everything to try and achieve it then you'll get no complaints from me. If we don't then it'll be in part because of City buying their way into the top 4.

The big problem right now is our over-reliance on RvP for goals. If that is not addressed in January with a signing and he either gets injured or goes off the boil and we struggle in the 2nd half of the season then Wenger will deserve criticism. Right now Wenger deserves some credit for turning things around. I have no problem with people criticising Wenger or the board or whoever when things go wrong but some people on here have such a polarized view (or, in your case, pretend to) and it's pretty much impossible to have sensible debate with them.
About a year ago you defended Wenger tirelessly, he could do no wrong.
Now you criticise him tirelessly, he can do no right.
I don't believe anyone can switch from one extreme position to the other so quickly, both points of view are simplistic and obviously nonsensical. He's clearly a good manager, he clearly has flaws. The transfer window was a car crash (till deadline day), he's turned things around and now we're looking like a team again.

Your posts come across as attention seeking and WUMmish. You like certain players and they can do no wrong, if they have a good game you trumpet them loudly, if they play poorly you refuse to acknowledge it. Other players you're the complete opposite. There are no shades of grey in your posts and that makes it hard to take you seriously.

Moaning about moaning :bow:

:lol:

Meh.

As far as I see it; I want to be proud of the team, feel some connection with the club I love, and laugh at the teams I hate. I want to see decent football (not Barca shite, I mean decent football), commitment and loyalty. I want singing, and beer and a laugh. All it boils down to, is seeing my team do everything they can to win a football game.

For me, the manager and players didn't do that back end of last year, or early this year. They are now, and therefore I am happy.

The good thing is, if we carry on doing that, then we'll naturally end up challenging for honours. Aslong as AW builds on the foundations he's laid these last few months.

If he doesn't, then we're back to square one. So that's where the issue currently sits for me.

I don't care about winning silverware. And I certainly don't want us to buy it. So for me, it's about using what we have in the best possible way. This is something we haven't really done the last 6 years. Used our quality / money etc to the best of it's ability....which for me (especially last year) should have meant winning a trophy.

If we carry on as we have been, and carry on improving, I'm happy as Larry. Silverware or not.

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Originally Posted by deeench my santa up

For the first highlighted part, that is true unfortunately.. I cant talk for Zimm but I can tell you how I think: I want AW to prove me wrong and make this team title challengers but reality is different. We have been mismanaged for years now and realistically we are only fighting for a top 4 spot and have given up on even thinking about being champions of England... this is what Zimm, myself and a few other pessimists (as you say) have been saying. So unfortunately when what we have been saying does come true, we come out with the "I told you so" line... does proving right that we are not championship material make me happy? Does folding in March/April season after season due to non-signings, injuries etc every season make me happy? NO! I'd rather MS, vpig's version of events come out true and I can come here and apologize to every optimist! Heck, I'll buy you guys drinks and call you all master for a year!!**

As for the second highlighted part from your post... what are you optimistic about? I am very happy with how the team is doing but I can again see us winning nothing and somehow falling way behind the two Manchester clubs to be even competing until financial fair play kicks in i.e. unless the Arabs and Russians find a way around it (which they will for sure). Since our last trophy, I was most optimistic about 06 season coz of CL final then I was optimistic in 07/08 season when we led the table by 5 points in Feb, I was optimistic last season till March... as of now, I am not optimistic about what we are going to achieve. However, I am very very happy with the way the team is playing and fighting for each other. They are not as talented as previous years but they look to be playing for the club and fans. I am distinguishing between happiness and optimism, while you may be confused and taking your happiness for optimism (?)

** Only one round of drinks that are on specials that night :lol:

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You're TEG, right? EDIT: Oh, FY, right? Well, it still applies as you're a similar age.
If so then you've grown up in an era when Arsenal have been one of the top 2 sides in the country and most seasons have ended with trophies.
Those of us who are a bit older remember that it wasn't always thus and those of us with any sense realised that it probably wouldn't always be so.

6 years without a trophy is a failure, I'd agree. A club at our level shouldn't go that long without winning anything.
But failing to compete with the Manchester clubs who both have far more resources than we do is not failure, IMO. Even Utd are struggling to compete with City this year, chuck half a billion at any club and you're going to get results. We should be competing with clubs like Spurs though.

IMO we've been far too cautious in the transfer market. I wouldn't want us to have a sugar-daddy, I don't want success that way, but we could and should have spent more. The frustrating thing is that Wenger's policy has very nearly succeeded. Despite the silly money being thrown around we have challenged for the title a couple of times and been at the latter stages of cup competitions on a few occasions. We've failed to finish the job and that is Wenger's failure. What annoys me is people acting like Wenger's this incompetent buffoon when he's clearly still a very good manager. His stubbornness has possibly cost us trophies but you don't finish top 4 every year in an era of billionaire owners and other clubs chucking silly money around by being completely useless.

Wenger seems to be looking long term. If financial regulations ever have any bite (doubtful, sadly) then we'll be sitting pretty. That still leaves the failure to win trophies of course and I hope Wenger is remembered the right way at Arsenal because before he came along we wouldn't be having this discussion because we weren't at the level Wenger has raised us to. That, and the new stadium, will always be his legacy.

Hmmmm - moaning about moaners. IMO there's too much reactionism on here. If people want to moan they are entitled to - isn't it part of the rich tapestry of a forum? Over optimism can be just as tedious, yet there are no orchestrated campaigns against the mindless optimists, are there? I don't see myself as a moaner, but its been very easy to feel down about our club at various times over the past 3 seasons, and was very difficult too look positively on it from March to September/October this year.

But (and I'm with LDG on this) - what seems to be happening now is that there is cause to feel positive about AFC whether we are in the frame for silverware or not. For me this presents a wierd contrast with even periods over the past 3 seasons where we were doing well - when there wasn't such a feel good factor as there is now, despite the likelihood of us having to scrap for 4th. Despite the fact that Sp*rs are above us.

So what's changed? Well for me the no. 1 difference is the attitude of our team. Our players look like they want to be there. From Sczcesny to Vermaelen; Koscielny; Jenks and Dench - who seem to be genuinely fans of the club; to Arteta and Benayoun - who have got as high as they are going to and want to make the best of it; to RVP who is, finally a proper captain and again genuinely seems to want to be here - we have players fighting for each other rather than playing for themselves - which unfortunately is what our key players did previously.

Next is our style of play - we have become more direct - with players like Gervinho; Santos and Walcott adding some excitement to our play. The Cesc inspired tippy tappy stuff was, frankly, boring, and I'm glad to see the back of it.

And finally, our manager seems happier and more relaxed than he has been for ages - its almost as though the strain of trying to keep players who ultimately would prefer to play elsewhere has been lifted, and he is benefitting from a second wind.

Still early days of course, and all isn't 100% (I worry that we won't buy the striker we need in Jan for instance) - but finally I feel we can enjoy following this team for the sake of it, and enjoying games (such as the Citeh CC game) even where we drop points. Long may it last.

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Originally Posted by Ach

Wenger deserved all he got. Everyone could see we had an absolute shocking last few months of the season and imo he should have walked in the summer. He didn't so we thought he must have finally seen sense and realised his way has been a failure. He didn't. He did nothing in the summer to fix our blatant and obvious problems knowing full well we had a CL qualifier and Liverpool and Mancs coming up in August. We scraped through the qualifier thankfully but as expected, got our asses handed to us by Liverpool and the less said about the Manc debacle, the better. He then realises that fans are turning and he panic buys and gets in some Pub Teamers and Mertesacker who I actually rate so kudos on Wenger for getting a signing right for once. Since then we had the Blackburn horror show and Spuds kicking our butts. Whilst we are on a decent run now, its happened before. Every season we go on a good run only to lose one game and then lose it mentally. We aren't winning the league this season. Its unlikely we'll finish top 4 either as I doubt Chelsea will remain as they are. CL we have no chance in which leaves the FA Cup. If we manage to avoid the Manc clubs and thankfully one will be out soon and get the luck of the draw then maybe we can do something there.Wenger has apparently already said he's not looking to get anyone in this January which if true and it probably is means he has learnt nothing. We need quality players. His way has failed. Move with the times or move on

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Thats your Opinion though, to the board he did what was needed and thats why he stayed on.

2nd bolded part. Wenger always says the same but common sense he will buy in Jan eveyone knows he needs too, he knows he needs too. Unless your in the mans head you can't know what he is thinking.

Do i think he should have walked in the summer, nope because whoever came in the result would have been the same. Should he walk this summer, if he fails again then yes.