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I think it was you.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
It was a pretty stupid comparison then, it's an even stupider one now if we do finish the job and retain the Cup.
Try moaning to your Spurs fan mates, if you have any (and shame on you if you do ;) ) about how rubbish things are.
And yes yes, we should have loftier ambitions than them but fans of very few clubs would swap places with us right now.
The 'battered wife' thing is a ridiculous exaggeration of how 'bad' things are.
Another example from Dein-Machine :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
But yeah, I'm the WUM...
Does anyone here have insight into what the wider fan base is feeling as we drift towards the end of another season of under-performing? Obviously 99% of GW (all 3 of us bar Letters) is fed up with it, but I get the impression on a wider scale the majority remain satisfied with Wenger and the team, particularly with Wenger.
I think many of these fans might be confusing a losing mentality with spoilt brat syndrome. Most opposition fans would laugh at us complaining about 3rd place, a cup final and qualification for Europe. Then again, most fans don't support a club with our squad and resources. We should certainly be doing better. When you look at things in terms of loyalty, history, in relation to the majority of other clubs that could explain the satisfaction among fans. In pure sporting terms though, we should be furious. The latter is where I stand. We're feeding off the scraps left behind by the genuinely top clubs and the odd entertaining game every now and then, mostly it's dire, one-paced, pointless shite though. I'm happy to take total commitment to winning and a sensible bias for entertainment over trophies. The latter can't come without the commitment anyway.
This idea of easing off, whether it's actually happening or not, seriously pisses me off. So does the negative shit Wenger has been wheeling out to steer us into the CL cash again.
We took our foot off the gas a bit when the title was already gone, top 4 was assured and we had a Cup Final to think about (and not get injured for).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw
I agree about a recurring pattern but I don't think this is a valid example of it.
You see this sort of thing at every club, even Chelsea apparently who have got the flip flops out now they're champions.
And yes, there's a difference when you're the Champions but do you really care whether we finish 2nd or 3rd?
Obviously the higher than better but I'm more bothered about winning the Cup.
It would be nice to have some momentum going into the final but last year we won our last 5 games - including hammering Hull away - and still nearly made a balls up of the final.
Finish 3rd and win the Cup and overall I'll be content enough with how this season has gone. It could be better, but it could be a lot worse too.
You've already said all of that. And there are plenty of responses that highlight each and every of the points you are making as complacency. You can't afford it at the top tier of competitive sport. You'll never be first to the line if you are complacent. So what if "every club" is doing it, all the more reason why we shouldn't be. Make hay. Like the gypos are doing while we have "understandably" eased off as the finishing tape approaches. The cup is icing and it would be a lot nicer on a decent cake rather than a shit sandwich.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
If this was the first time it had happened I'd be exceptionally disappointed at our end to the season. But it's not exceptional at all, is it? This is the same old message to be carried into the next season, and the next. Well I hope the gypos and chavs and Utd are as generous in 2016 as they have been this year, otherwise we aren't getting a sniff. Not with our "live with that" attitude.
Somebody mentioned the word "momentum" earlier in either this thread or another. I think it sums of my feelings about where we are with Wenger. When he's won the title before, he has never retained it. Imagine winning the title unbeaten & then not competing the following year, that's a hell of a cock-up. Not understanding that we needed to improve even more because our competitors would do so & then making the same mistake again. The run of wins we had, many of which were pub wins by the odd goal against teams we should be turning 2-0 leads into 5-0 wins, was done through playing inconsistent, poor, unambitious football - taking a lead & trying to hang on.
There has been NO momentum when he has won things, there is NO momentum when we get an early lead in a game, the momentum of a good league run starts to drop as he gets more & more negative in his attacking play when actually attacking football is the only way this team can play. Imagine having Ozil, Sanchez, Santi & Rambo in your team but then ask them to sit back & defend - knocks the momentum out of the team & he's doing it every week.
Aye. As usual we're going round and round in circles. We're not getting anywhereQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I'm not sure there's any point pursuing the discussion any further, we just see things differently.
If that were the case, why are we playing the exact same players? Why is an unfit Sanchez playing? Was he injured or unfit for the game? Cazorla may need a rest and the same goes for Giroud. If we’re thinking about the cup, we should be resting players so we don’t pick up any late injuries but the squad selection suggests the opposite. What you’re saying is speculation. How many games in a row has he played this team now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
A lot of what we post on here is speculation but the title had gone, top 4 was assured and we do have a Cup Final to consider.
None of that is speculation and do seem to have taken our foot off the gas.
Not neccessarily consciously, but in the circumstances it's understandable.
I agree Wenger should be rotating more in the run up to the Final btw.
In fairness, if Wenger had rested Sanch & Santi for the Utd game & we had lost - gone on to finish 4th - we would have all been digging him out, saying he did it deliberately to finish in his favourite position. Me being one of them.
Against Sunderland, we should be able to rest Santi ( Sanchez if he is actually injured ), give Jack & Theo a start. We only need a point to guarantee 3rd, hopefully Wumger can't fuck that up against shit like Sunderland.
Get 3rd place then give players a rest for the final game
From my take of reading various blogs, listening to a lot of Arsenal podcasts, reading twitter is that it's roughly about a third strongly Wenger out, a third strongly Wenger in and the other third in the fickle uncertain middle whose views are shaped by form, results and the general atmosphere around the club. Count me in the latter group. I've had moments where I thought it couldn't go on but other moments where I've genuinely been really optimistic about the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
At this point in time, I wouldn't really mind seeing Wenger staying but I also wouldn't object to seeing Klopp come in next season. I'm not sure if either would make that much of a net difference.
Regardless of the situation however, we really need to to get the monkey of our back and win the league next season. Despite our excellent form this year (bar last two results) my biggest concern remains our capacity to perform when there's pressure on us and also Wenger's continuing to lose the tactical battles to Mourinho which is why that Chelsea game was such a disappointment despite it being a draw. It's my biggest worry and we may have to pray that everyone else collapses because if it gets into a tight one on one duel with Chelsea going into the final few games, I'm afraid to say that with out mental fragility we've displayed at times under Wenger, my money would always be on Chelsea.
But yeah, GW is pretty strongly anti Wenger compared to a lot of other Arsenal places.
I agree and I don't think we've purposely taken our foot off the gas or gone out with that message. It's just another non performance from the squad and probably has to do with fatigue and tactics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
We do have a long, distressing tradition of folding when the pressure gets to us but I don't think we've done that this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
We went on a fantastic run to try and put some pressure on Chelsea, we did what we could but ultimately we were too far behind and never put any real pressure on them. We've only dropped off after the title was gone and top 4 was done and dusted.
In the Cup we got that result at Old Trafford and although we were far from convincing in the latter stages last year, or this, we won it last year and we're back in the final this. Win the Final again and it would show we're getting better at handling the big occasion.
Be amazed if it's fatigue given the tempo we're playing at and all the standing around we're doing.
We've just done it!Quote:
We do have a long, distressing tradition of folding when the pressure gets to us but I don't think we've done that this year.
1 point from 6 with the gypos taking 6 from 6. Not difficult to figure out which team handles pressure and which one folds.
It wasnt me.. though I'd like to take credit for it. It is 'bad' when you think about what we are capable of, and what we are happy about. The battered wife syndrome is more aligned to how Wenger pushes us into a ditch every season and then pulls us up.. and we cant stop drooling over what an awesome job he has done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
As for your comment about 'very few clubs would swap places with us right now', I want to be where those clubs are who would not swap places with us.. we have the potential to be where we wouldnt be happy scrapping a top 4 finish but we are just happy with mediocrity. Lets aim higher FFS!! :banghead: #middleclassmentality
We haven't and you know why,Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
You define pressure retrospectively based on results after the fact, completely ignoring all the 'must win' games where we did win.
For a start we haven't scraped a top 4 finish in the last 2 seasons, we've been very comfortable in the top 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
Secondly, if that's all we'd achieved then I agree, that isn't enough year after year. But 2 major Cups in 2 years (if thats what happens) is a bit more like it. The league is where it's at of course, we need to properly challenge next year.
We lose games we should not lose because Arsene is out manoeuvred tactically with alarming regularity. Sorry to say I fear this will happen in Cup Final and in at least in one of our remaining league fixtures
There was a really good NQ type post on RAWK about why they're suffering right now.
Quote:
I share your concerns.
Sterling and his agent are knobs. We know that.
But, an introspection into the club doesn't look very good. I was always pretty optimistic about things but the more I think about it, the more I'm worried.
To attract and keep players, you need 4 key things:
1. Money
2. Prestige
3. Top Players
4. Top Manager
Money
We don't spend as much as the "Tier 1" clubs. We may not have the capacity to (at least under FFP rules).
Prestige
We've won one trophy since 2006, been in the CL once since 2009, and haven't won a title since 1990.
Top Players
We no longer have Suarez or Gerrard. We also have lost the likes of Alonso, Mascherano, Reina, Torres, etc over the years.
Top Manager
Rodgers is a young and talented manager but his profile is not one of a top manager (yet).
The question becomes... how are we to compete with the Tier 1 clubs?
For example, Man City may still lack some prestige but they've got a truckload of money, top quality players, and can cycle through top managers. Thus, the likes of Silva and Aguero aren't exactly in a hurry to leave (Silva and Aguero have spent more time at City than Torres or Suarez did at Liverpool). Their two title wins also show the world that they are gaining in prestige and have been successful. Man United, on the other hand, even with Moyes for a year, didn't get hurt in player recruitment or retention as they have the money, prestige, and quality players. Sure they'll get burned with De Gea this summer, but their financial clout, prestige, and managerial recognition will get them pretty far during the summer transfer window.
PSG is similar to City while Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, and Chelsea have all four components in spades. Arsenal's a weird one but is probably below the top tier but above us.
The problem is we seem to be lacking on all four fronts.
We've literally asked Brendan Rodgers, an ambitious and talent yet still and inexperienced young manager, to outduel Jose Mourinho, Manuel Pellegrini (soon to be Carlo Ancelotti maybe), Arsene Wenger, and Louis Van Gaal with a worse squad and less money.
I mean, what are we honestly expecting?
The thought that in 3 years, with Coutinho, Sterling, Can, Henderson, Sakho, Moreno, Markovic, Ibe, Origi, a healthy Sturridge, a couple of new signings, and a more experienced Brendan Rodgers will lead Liverpool to past glories is an idealized romanticized view. The fact is, we've become a stepping stone club. Rodgers could take us to 3rd next season but that may not prevent Coutinho from going to Barca to play with his best mate Neymar and his friend Suarez (oh and Messi), Sterling from leaving, Sakho from partnering Varane at Madrid, etc. Emre Can might love Liverpool and love Rodgers, but when treble winners Bayern Munich come calling, it's curtains for us.
Suarez left us after we got 84 points. Alonso left us after we got 86. Torres left us after we got new owners and the King back. Sterling is 20 (20 FFS!) but he's already got visions of grandeur elsewhere.
I wish football was like the old days but it isn't. It isn't even the supporters becoming more impatient. It's the players. They want it all as soon as possible. Under Shankly, did his top players bang on his door all the time demanding to leave? Even when Liverpool weren't winning trophies? Would a 20-year old Ian Rush do an interview with the BBC demanding Paisley and LFC raise his wages to astronomical amounts? Would Barnes after 2 seasons tell Kenny "sorry boss, Barca/Bayern/Madrid came calling, I'm leaving"? No they wouldn't. They had loyalty and affinity. But they also saw Liverpool as the pinnacle of their careers. The pinnacle of football. We are unfortunately far removed from that. The lack of forward vision in the 90s and 00s did us in.
Is modern football shit? Of course it is. What right does a brat like Sterling have to demand more than £5M a year? He's 20! Yet, it's not the craziest thing is it?
Mario Gotze, before a CL final, decided to move from 2-time Bundesliga winners and CL finalists Dortmund... to their fecking rivals. Before a CL final against said rival. If you didn't laugh, you'd cry at the absurdity. You really would.
Welcome to football 2015. If you're not tier 1, even if you're winning, your players are still being picked away. What was Atletico's award for a La Liga title and a CL final? Bye-bye Diego Costa and Filipe Luis. Dortmund's? Bye-bye Mario Gotze and Robert Lewandowski.
Heck, if football was like this in the 80s, Ferguson would've never succeeded at Man United. If he somehow survived the sack after finishing 11th or after finishing 6 seasons with 1 FA Cup, he still would've lost out on players. What would've happened if Chelsea threw a bunch of money at Steve Bruce? Or if Man City outbid Man United for Keane? Or if Arsenal/PSG/Bayern threw obscene money at Cantona before he joined Man United? Or if Real Madrid and Barcelona were tapping up Ryan Giggs?
It all seems absurd but in modern football, this is actually what you get.
It's shit but you want to be a successful club again, you have to be ambitious and you have to spend. Whether that's players, managers, DOFs, you have to show intent. Players want money, prestige, quality teammates, and quality managers. You're going to have match some of these criteria or be prepared for your top players leaving for greener pastures on a consistent basis.
Sterling is a right little arse but he won't be the last one. It's a fecking shame but it's a reality.
If FFP rules are relaxed, then FSG have got to spend more. You don't need to spend like Man City all the time but you better put in a lot of money if you want a successful club. Otherwise, we'll just challenge for the title once every 5 years (maybe) and then get our best players plucked. If Suarez didn't want to stay after THAT season, what's going to convince another top footballer to stay in the future? Ambition. If you don't want to be a stepping stone, then ambition is your answer.
Yes, it's a pessimistic view from a normally optimistic individual but I'm getting worried about the club. Even if you're not doing a lot of things wrong, you're still getting screwed by modern football.
Welcome to 2015.
Most of that rings true especially about the four factors needed to be a "tier 1" club
I've got to say we're pretty much have three of them locked down (top manager, money and players) now - we've seen that recently with how we've been able to attract Alexis and haven't had any of our top players poached in the recent summer windows ..... which is a long way from a few years ago when we lost the likes of Nasri and Cesc.
The only thing we're suffering from is a drop in prestige due to how long it's been since we won a title which is why is especially important we do it next year just so we can truly claim to be among the elite clubs in the world.
No I don't. What I said, at least a couple of weeks back, is the pressure will build game by game during the run-in and each game becomes more important than the last. What you are trying to do is turn 4th place into a trophy and overplay the significance of the FA Cup. You've previously highlighted then spending of the gypos and chavs and used that as a reason why we couldn't compete at the very top. Well we had the jump on the gypos going into the final stretch so we could have finished above them, despite their cash. But we blew it. That's acceptable to you, but you also must accept it is totally unacceptable to some fans. Not because it's a one-off failure to maximise the possibilities but because it's a repeating pattern. You can try to dress it up however you like but the results still stand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I stopped reading after he suggested Real Madrid might want to buy Sakho, anything he said lost any credibility after that point....the author had already half lost me by describing Brendan Rodgers as a talented manager.
Well yeah it has elements of Liverpool bias (Coutinho to Barca as well) but I don't think it detracts from the bigger point about why it's difficult for "tier 2" clubs to do well.
To be honest i think we are a tier 1 club in waiting, in that we are waiting for Wenger to get his gold watch and soapy tit wank from the board because we have the foundations in place.
Fair points about the shitty players though. Football is rapidly becoming a celebrity thing, moving away from a sport. The quality is dropping with a whole bunch of overpaid, under-skilled farmers being propped up by a handful of genuine talents (Kompany NOT being one of them btw, BBC and Sky). No matter how hyped it all gets the media finds a way to hype it higher. It's like the emperor and his new clothes.
The Battered wife syndrome was me and it still applies
I cant believe any fan starts the season expecting to be satisfied with 3rd or 4th. How is it that every pundit is the league, even shit ones talk abiout what Arsenal should be doing to win the league. They don't say the same thing about Spurs, Everton or even Pool, they are only mentioned in passing (apologies to CIB). We are a team who have traditionally, historically and even in recent seasons competed for titles. we have more than anyone except United and Pool. You get the feeling reading Letters myriad apologies for our failings that we could not win the league for another 10 years and he will hold fast to his "finacially doped teams excuse". Wenger is holding this club back end of.
How is it that we never aspire to win the CL, we cant because we havbe hit the glass ceiling with Wenger in charge. Its nice to be mentioned in the mix but in the last 16 of the CL any team that draws us just has a laugh and orders a bottle of Moet to celebrate progressing to the next round.
The synonym with Battered wives, is the fear of the unknown which Letters exhiits in every comment. The woman is afraid of losing her secure, yet painful existence and possibly falling into the hands of a worse person. Some fans are afraid of not being able to laugh at Spurs anymore, even for a season.
In reality, there is not one of 5 possible managerial candidates out there who wouldnt improve us. We have the team to be playing CL semis and finals, we need only better management, Our football is monotonous and utterly predictable. We have removed the spontaneity of shooting and the spirit of determination that once were our hallmark. How come Pulis can beat Mourinho with 2 crap teams twice in a row, but Wenger cant do it once in a dozen attempts. and before you jump in with some snide remark, Yes i would take Pulis over Wenger right now.
Which is true IF you're involved in a title race till the very death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
While we were in that race we did our bit. When it was over, top 4 was secured and with a Cup Final to consider there probably was as easing off, if only unconsciously. I can live with that.
You seem to be prioritizing finishing above City over the FA Cup, if so then it's you who are making that a 'trophy'. I'd rather have the real trophy, if I had to pick one.
I was agreeing with you until i saw that, i think that comment shows a genuine disparity between what i would call the Wengerskeptics. I myself am a realist, i know he is with us until 2017 and there is nothing that will change that, people like myself acknowledge that it is incredibly unlikely that the romantic notion of Wenger going out on a high with one final title win is just unrealistic, but i still say he is no worse than Van Gaal or Pellegrini....both of them are for me absolute dinosaurs who are tactically deficient. But in order to beat the odds rather than hide behind them, we need someone young and fresh who is willing to delegate, take on new ideas and take risks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
There are those who i'm afraid to say you count as, that with Wenger familiarity breeds contempt that they are so desperate for change that almost anyone will do. Although the groundhog season grates (and yes i agree an FA cup doesn't count as marked improvement) the idea that most managers could have kept us in the top four season in season out is disingenuous and false.
Where i agree with you is that Wenger has hit a glass ceiling, he hasn't the ability to make the leap that changes us from top four to perenial title challengers and eventual title winners, football has changed and he hasn't...and he's very much yesterday's man.
Where i don't agree with you is that a mid table manager like Pulis on the back of one or two positive results against Mourinho would have done better, we can do better than Wenger i don't doubt that we can but anyone or anything is not better.
Seriously?! Go and read Fever Pitch. That will tell you a bit about the life and expectations of an Arsenal fan back in the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Before Wenger we never consistently challenged for the title over a long period of time.
After the period of dominance in the 30s and before Wenger we were champions in 1948, 1953, 1971, 1989 and 1991.
If we expect more these days then that is because of Wenger.
The Financially doped teams is not an 'excuse'. Money and success is clearly very highly correlated in modern football and we had the double whammy of the two billionaire cheats coming to prominence around the same time as we made the stadium move and secured long term financial deals which, while initially looking favourable, as the money spiraled started to restrict our spending. There are three clubs who have greater resources than us and they have divided the title between them every year since we last won it. And Utd only managed to spoil the party of the two clubs fueled by billionaires when Fergie was in change who, IMO, is the GOAT. That last season Utd had no right to win the title.
All that said, we have now repaid a lot of the stadium debt and have new financial deals in place, we are starting to be able to compete more seriously in the transfer market, the signings of Ozil and Sanchez are a level of player we couldn't get before and they have made a difference. I do think we're more able to compete with City and Chelsea and if FFP has any bite (skeptical) then we are very well placed to seriously challenge.
I do agree about the CL though, Wenger's record there is impressive in some ways (always qualifying, always getting to the last 16) and abject in others (rarely getting any further). That is where another manager may be able to push us on.
The reason your analogy doesn't work is where you say it's a "painful" existence. Really? There have been some massively frustrating times in the last two seasons but such is the life of a football fan of any club. Chelsea are champions but their fans must have been embarrassed at their FA Cup defeat. The most frustrating thing about the last 10 years has been the lack of trophies, we were so often the bridesmaid, never the bride. We started to put that right last year, if we retain the Cup then we're continuing to do so.
I wouldn't swap managers with any other club in the PL - I would with Chelsea where Mourinho not such a despicable ****, he's the only manager in the PL I rate more highly than Wenger although honourable mention to Koeman who has done an excellent job.
Finally:
:haha:Quote:
Yes i would take Pulis over Wenger right now.
:doh:
Where did I say or imply I'm prioritizing 2nd place over the cup? What I have said is 2nd place was in our grasp and, as we always do, we let it slip. We've been doing this for quite a few seasons now, failing to capitalise on our opportunities. If you think finishing above the gypos doesn't mean anything then you fail to grasp the fundamentals of competition. You keep presenting that run of wins as a landmark, then you conveniently conclude tailing off when there was a chance to turn that run into a tangible result is acceptable because we weren't catching the chavs, or we had already qualified for the CL, or there's no difference between second and third. The difference is pushing home the advantage, beating the dopers and finishing the PL on a high so we could take that optimism into next season. Not just next season, by the way, but that FA Cup you seem to believe is so significant. Why not go into that game unbeaten rather than struggling for a bit of form?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
There's a lot riding on this cup, your excuses for a start. Wenger's job, not so much. He's here until 2017 when he'll decide if he wants to stay some more. Like you, he's happy with qualifying for the CL, doesn't feel the need to push for the maximum return and is selective when it comes to defining progress and success. The board is happy, the share price is rising, the debts are diminishing, almost everything at the club is in tip-top shape. The only thing we lack now is a desire to win. Shame that, seeing as we are in a competitive sporting environment.
Good thing i left that comment till last now. maybe the Pulis bit is fanciful, but realistically and analytically. If you examine it, Most teams end up where they're financial clout says they should be. It would take a really crap manager to take us from 4th to 6th or a monumental leap for Spurs or Pool to overtake us. We cannot stay in eternal purgatory waiting for Wenger to relent and say adieu. Is there any guarantee that either he or silent Sam wont agree to let it roll, on beyond 2017. If we only discussed here what is actually possible, we would not discuss anything, At least on these boards we can steer our team beyond the last 16 of the CL and consistently challenging for the league. Wenger should be appreciated for what he has done but he is not the only manager who can do what he has done, or maybe improve us. Even looking at Pulis, he is exactly the kind of manager Arsenal used to hire before Dein went to Japan to select a manager no one had heard of. We may not get the manager we want. Does that mean we stick with what we have in perpetuity.?Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
I think the genuine suggestions of Pulis and Martinez as improvements over Wenger should result in a purging of this whole thread.
No team has dominated the league for a sustained period. Except for SAF, which proves the point that the manager is the most important element of success, then comes money. If SAF was in his 50s today, United would still be dominating even with City and Chelsea riches. Money is not the only arbiter of sucess as Dortmund and Athletico have proven. We are in a painful existence, if thumpings of 6, 8 and being knocked out by the likes of Monaco are not painful i dont know what is. Your devotion is not to Arsenal football club but to seeing Wenger in charge so that your spud colleagues dont laugh at you, a puerile and vain existence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I don't think it would take a monumental leap for Liverpool or Spurs to overtake us, both teams have had greater spending power than us from 2003 until 2013 (and Liverpool let's not forget finished above us in 2006, 2007, 2009 and last season)....so i repeat to claim that any old manager could have kept us in the top four is for me profoundly flawed.
The point is that the board should be looking within the next six months to make sure someone is in place by the time Wenger contract runs out (Guardiola agreed to take the reigns at Bayern a year before he joined them). If they don't do this than it confirms that we have more to worry about than Wenger.
Depends what kind of purging...if it's purging with fire than i'm all for it. If it's purging in the same way a young girl with bodily dismorphia purges than hmmmm...maybe notQuote:
Originally Posted by Master Splinter
I doubt they are genuine comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Splinter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp9K4-DHsBAQuote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
There is no basis in your claim that Pool and Spuds have more spending power than us. They may have spent more than us but that is because they each sold an 80m player in recent seasons and why we have £200m in the bank while they still need owners to bankroll them, Spending power is the surfeit of income over expenditure and even in the years 2000 til date we have both clubs comfortably licked. They spent a lot of money trying to overtake us and we spent comparatively little keeping ahead. For this Wenger needs to be applauded, taking the next step however is physically beyond him. There we agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
I don't know anything about having accquired 200 million accumulatively, we have made a profit each season but that money then gets funneled back into servicing the debts and stadium repayments, day to day costs, players wages etc....and then after all after we had sold a player we usually were in the black.
The stadium naming renegotiation and the new kit sponsorship has brought us an added 80million in revenues a year and that is why we are now in a position to spend.
Liverpool and Spurs have had more to spend despite making less money because they haven't had a stadium to pay for, Liverpool gave up on moving to Stanley Park because they know it would financially cripple them and Spurs are in for a very hard time over the next five-ten years.
You have repeatedly and consistently stressed the importance of 2nd place and repeatedly downplayed the FA Cup. So you haven't said it, but you've certainly implied it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Yes, we've let the "2nd Place Trophy" slip and the "Finishing Above The Gypos Trophy". I'll cancel the open top bus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Those aren't real trophies! The importance of a top 4 finish is obvious - it means CL qualification with all the money and prestige that brings. Top 3 is better yet because it means you don't have to go through the qualification stage. Beyond that if you're not going to win the title then it really doesn't matter that much whether you finish 2nd or 3rd.
The 'tangible result' of the good run is automatic CL qualification.
Last year we finished the season with 5 wins in a row and the FA Cup win, it didn't seem to do us that much good going into a new season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
We can finish on a high anyway by winning the last 2 league games and the FA Cup.
There IS a lot riding on the Cup, it's the difference between finishing the season on a high with a trophy in our hands or finishing with a disappointment and failure.
No. Again, if we qualify for the CL AND WIN THE FA CUP then I will deem the season a reasonably successful one.Quote:
Like you, he's happy with qualifying for the CL
Clearly I (and Wenger) want us to challenge seriously for the title next year.