Which makes the acceptance of failure easier to bite down on. 9 years and running.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
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Which makes the acceptance of failure easier to bite down on. 9 years and running.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Nobody is saying that we couldn't have done better with the resources available, but at the same time I wouldn't consider our performance a failure either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
How many other Clubs have had to fund the construction of a brand new stadium? This is also during a time where we have had to contend with the unfortunate trend of sugar daddy ownership pumping disproportionate amounts of money into the market.
Despite all of the above, we have managed to finish the Season in a CL position every year.
Personally, I feel that we have exceeded my initial expectations for this Season. We have been contenders for the Title for the Majority of the Season (even with a slim chance now) and there is a good chance that we shall finally see some silverware in the cabinet for the 1st time in just under a decade. I hope that we will finish on a positive come the end of the Season, and we finally get to witness the new spending power that we now have.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
Twice the player.
That’s probably how Wenger defines the last decade and why he’s comfortable with the lack of silverware. It answers Letter’s original question. I’m pretty sure he’s upset when we play badly and lose but I doubt he’s losing sleep over the whole season because he feels satisfied with the overall result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerlathon
Completely baseless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
You are sure he bid 8mQuote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/14676338
Use the internet instead of just talking out of any old...... u..know.
If Wenger had bid 8m he would have got him. Yes they might have sold for 8m later, but that`s because the players contract was running down and he could have gone for free in a few months time
Thought he was a bit of a calamity in his 1st season to be honest, prone to lapses which caused goals. Also in 2010-2011 we signed Squillaci and Chamakh and we know how bad they were so it wasn't exactly hard to be the "most effective signing" :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
Totally agree with this, a great post IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Thought it was 8, turns out it was six but then we signed the BFG a month later, so why are we arguing? plus the bolton chairman called Arsene a bell end, you really think he would offer anymore after that? i know i wouldn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
The CL placings is a fairly recent thing, there was no 3rd/4th place qualification places in the past and thus getting 3rd or 4th was never considered that desirable. We've managed to manufacture it into some type of trophy somehow where coming 4th is something so special and yet IMO it doesn't give fans that much pleasure and really doesn't compare to the feeling of winning something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerlathon
6 million is peanuts to be honest in today's world, you'd be lucky to have anyone accept that, it's a lowball offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
Not really, it's been almost 9 years since he's won anything, he's not done everything he can to achieve success and has in the past sacrificed opportunities in favour of our chase for 4th place and the CL (something we had no hope of winning).Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
His constant efforts to hype up 4th place also point to a man who is satified with his efforts getting 4th IMO.
Koscielny is much better. So is the BFG.
'We' haven't done anything, it's just the way football has gone and if you look at the money other clubs are chucking around to try and get in the top 4 you'll see it's not just us who value it and see how important it is in terms of finance and prestige. I agree it's a bit rubbish but you can't blame Arsenal or Wenger for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
What? He does, he's talked about 4th place even going as far as calling it a trophy in the past, constant is perhaps overdramatic but the point is he values as if it was a piece of silverware, I would suggest this is because it swells the bank balance and confirms he's doing a good job from the owners point of view.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Any quote from Wenger should be taken with a pinch of salt. We all know that, Zimm.
Whilst we haven't, the club and manager have many times said how great an achievment it was etc etc. I agree from a financial point of view it does have a lot of meaning, prestige perhaps but being knocked at a predictable stage every season is doing nothing for it's credibility IMO, it's this that bothers me about the CL, we don't really even seem to have an outside chance because we're almost too predictable, our game doesn't seem to play the odds (Chelsea a few years back won it when they weren't the best teams, due to some lucky breaks, but their style of play and desire gave them that chance to "get lucky" IMO).Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Yes and no, he does talk a lot of rubbish, but there's things he says that are backed up on the pitch and in the transfer market as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
It's clear he values the CL, if there was no 3rd/4th place CL placings I'm pretty sure his approach would be different. It's not winning something but it's at least on a par for the club.
Depending on which way you want to move the goalposts, presumably.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Yes, Letter's....it's baseless. :doh:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/9/englan...trophy-drought
Quote:
Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger has defended the club's recent lack of trophies as he prepares for his 1000th match in charge of the Gunners against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge.
The north Londoners have failed to win a trophy since lifting the FA Cup in 2005 but remain in the title hunt this season, just four points behind leaders Chelsea, and have reached the semi-finals of the FA Cup.
However, Wenger says that winning trophies is not everything and believes the club have not been given credit for some of their achievements in recent seasons.
"When you make a decision [to build the Emirates Stadium] you don't say, 'OK, we invest in the stadium but we don't want trophies'," he told the club's official website.
"In 2006 we were in the Champions League final. Nobody speaks about it now but it's still an achievement.
"It's not a trophy but we did it without conceding a goal in the whole campaign and only lost in the last 13 minutes of the Champions League. Can you say you failed that season? I don't think so. On top of that we managed to stay in the top four that season.
"We [also] beat Real Madrid with Zidane and Beckham and all these people but nobody speaks about it. It's like we have done nothing at all. Why? Because at the end of the season you don't parade the trophy."
Arsenal have come close to ending their drought on several occasions, reaching the Champiosn League final in 2005 and the Capital One Cup final in 2011, but Wenger says a team should not just be judged purely on the silverware they collect.
"Had we won the League Cup that season people would have said, 'Ah, they won the League Cup in 2006'. But what is it compared to when you know as a manager... to win the League Cup or reach the Champions League final without losing a game, what is the difference?" he added.
"You have to take a little bit of distance with [the criticism for a lack of trophies] and assess what is difficult and what is a good season. I know that trophies are important. But it's not like if you haven't won a trophy nothing happened in the whole season and it was disastrous.
"You still played good games and bad games and in the season when you won trophies you still played bad games."
No depending on his actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
Why should it be taken with a pinch of salt when you consider the last 9 years? It’s not as if his words and actions have been completely contradictory.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
Arsenal losses, especially humiliations, affect a lot of us deeply. I know I hate talking to people afterwards. I think I have aged more watching Arsenal play than because of other stress in my life! :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
This doesnt mean that I should be in a job where I am not delivering. For example, there is a guy who works really hard in the office but he is just not good enough. He gets 10/10 on effort but that effort is mostly towards the wrong need. Does it help the office? No.
My sympathy for Wenger and his achievements ran out in 2009. I want to see results now. Not empty promises and effort in the wrong need. Just because he looks like he worked hard doesnt excuse him. I'd rather he work smart, rather than hard.
So you're saying you believe everything he says?Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Well, we have a saying round here...fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again...
In relation to this discussion, you think he’s bluffing? So 4th isn’t an achievement when considering the stadium move?Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
This isn’t a discussion about everything Wenger says, LDG.
Do we take this with a pinch of salt, LDG?Quote:
"You have to take a little bit of distance with [the criticism for a lack of trophies] and assess what is difficult and what is a good season. I know that trophies are important. But it's not like if you haven't won a trophy nothing happened in the whole season and it was disastrous.
"You still played good games and bad games and in the season when you won trophies you still played bad games."
In this instance, no. I think he's talking relative sense, and there is merit in his achievements all things considered. But he wouldn't come out and outright say what he really believes, or what some of us believe, because he's a politician in that respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I'm sure he thinks 4th is the very minimum that should be expected of a club our size, and that we have failed in a lot of respects to move beyond that. But he won't say that to the media will he. Just like he wouldn't wash the clubs dirty linen in public.
To be honest I don't really care if we're in the CL or not. It's exciting if you've not been in there often but year on year it loses its shine, especially when we've no realistic prospect of winning it. That said if we're going to be in Europe I'd rather that than the Europa league and see a million games against nobodies. At least with the CL we see some good teams, I enjoyed the group stage this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
I believe Wenger sees it as important we're in there as do managers of most clubs who are there or thereabouts. Like I said lots of clubs throw money around trying to get up there because they see it as a way of stepping up a level and for those who are there it's a way of staying up there by getting the extra revenue and the prestige of being in the CL. We haven't made many marquee signings of late, hardly any really, but being in the CL gives us the opportunity to look at a different class of player. There's no way we'd have got Ozil had we not been in there.
I reckon he sees it as the minimum he should be achieving but I don't think for one minute he's happy with not being higher or the lack of trophies. In fact I think it was you who posted a link of him saying that if he didn't deliver trophies he would have failed. Hardly the words of someone who is content to just finish 4th each year and not win any cups. You constantly (##) say he's under no pressure but I do believe he's under pressure to keep us up there and while that's not something you value it is important for the reasons I've outlined and we're not the only club who think so.
I do think he should be under more pressure to deliver trophies too although it should be recognised that past managers were able to let league form slide in order to focus on the cups (in your beloved 92/93 we had a horrible league season, we even flirted with relegation!), that's not an option now. I do see the FA Cup as his last chance to deliver a trophy. If we cock this one up then I don't think we'll ever win anything else under him.
To a degree, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
My previous post relates. He's deflecting critisism away from himself, and more importantly, the club.
That's baseless.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
It's been a long 9 years and if he was dissatisfied with the results and thought we were failing, I think we'd have seen dramatic changes a while back.
Don't Letters me, you cheeky cunt :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I'm not spoiling for an argument mate, I'm just saying it how it is. Of course he's a politician in the way he speaks, and you know it.
:lol: Got me!Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
He can play it coy and politician like, but I don't think that's what's going here. If he truly felt differently to what he's presented in the media, I think he'd have left or demanded a change. Even if we had funds restricted, I at least expect him to get players like Denilson and Almunia out of the team a lot earlier than he actually did. I think he's too patient and philosophical with his outlook. His words and actions correlate on this occasion.
I am here you know <_<
Hello down there!Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I dunno. This whole thing is such a headfuck when you start reading about it on the web, and analysing every single thing that is said, read opinion after opinion on tactics, boardroom movements, transfers etc etc.
We all know by now that he has his weaknesses. The hammering we got from Chelsea was the last straw for me in a lot of respects, because I know he won't change. I keep sticking by him, as I believe he loves the club, I love what he has done for the club, and I would like nothing more than to see him succeed. But it's heartbreaking and angering at the same time to have the piss ripped out of us again and again.
I fully believe he wants to win. But he's too stubborn to change his ways in order to make that happen. It's quite massachistic if you think about it.
I said "no" to the poll, a) out of respect and b) knowing how difficult he is to replace at this point in time. It's a scary prospect to me.
But the Chelsea hiding taught me that it will just keep happening, as I don't believe in coincidence. So in that respect, he has to go.
I don't for one second think he deserves to be villified and ripped apart by the fans though.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
Question to you about the vilified part though.. I disagree with the abuse to him (despite me being a culprit in my younger days). Do you think that if he continues in charge and if things continue the same way, it will justify him being ripped apart by fans? To put it simply, if you were to put a time frame, after how many more months/years do you think it be considered ok?
From my perspective, he ran out of time in 2009 and while I do not condone the abuse he gets, I understand why he gets it. I can see where a lot of the anger is coming from... IMO, fans have every right to rip him apart, as long as its not personal.
He has said, to be a manager you spend a lot of time suffering. He does have SnM ways about him. Throw in his voyeurism....one messed up individual. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
On a serious note, I think Wenger is a man with strong convictions and follows his gut. As Paddy said, his faith is his greatest asset and also his weakness. I'm not trying to throw shots at him when I say this, just trying to get a grip on what's been going on over the last 9 years. I think it's his time to go to and it's not just because of the results. It's the comments that come after and looking deeper into the way he sees football from his quotes, what other players say and then what we see on the pitch. I think his time has passed and what worked before won't work now. I think we'd need a major cash injection for his ways to work now because we need players way better than the competition to dominate again. I don't think that's possible with the other super rich clubs floating around us.
IMO if we were going to change manager it should have been a couple of years ago.
Two big criticisms of Wenger are that he won't spend big and we're not winning trophies any more.
Last year we smashed our transfer record on Ozil and made a big bid for Suarez. The new commercial deals should see us able to continue that level of signing.
We really should win the FA Cup.
If we do then I'm not sure that's the right time to be changing manager with all the upheaval that could bring.
A couple of years ago you wouldn't hear of him leaving...A couple of years from now you still wont want to hear of him leaving. Twenty years from now you'll still want him to stay, Even if we blow this years FA cup you'll find a way to blame the ref, the lousy stadium. Someone spiking their pre game meal. AnythingQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters