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This is worth considering. I at least remember Denilson having a few good games here or there but I can't say the same for Ramsey this season. He has been that bad and I hate Denilson. But at this point in time, I'd take him over Ramsey. I can't remember our midfield being this open and our possession being this low.
Denilson was nowhere near as bad as he was made out to be.
Yeah you're probably right, Ramsey's form in the last 3 months has been worse than anything Denilson produced (although I never rated Denilson at all and thought he was a very mediocre player)
Oh no, he was bad. Ramsey is terrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ach
Yes he was worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ach
Thats just it his form has been bad but Denilson was bad for more then a few seasons. Ramsey has not had a few seasons to prove himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker
I feel sorry for Ramsey because unlike Denilson Ramsey was thrown in at the deep end Denilson never was.
He was not picked every week nor played every week.
Ramsey needs a loan to bolton for a year tbh.
Denilson wasn't as bad as Ramsey.
But Ramsey wasn't as bad as Denilson.
Ergo, they are both fucking shit.
Like many of our younger players, Denilson was played completely out of position, he was asked to come in and do what Flamini had done next to Fabrgeas the year before is a 442.
All i remeber of this kid is when he played against Spurs in a Carling Cup game in an attacking role, he was supurb, however like a number of our midfield players a few years ago, they all played second fiddle to a team built around Cesc...eg Diaby on the wing, Rosicky on the wing, Hleb on the wing etc etc etc.
We have all seen how good Rosicky has been now that he has finally been played where he always belonged.
Never a fan of Denilson's but I can understand how he divided opinion on here. Ramsey....there is no division. He's been shit. He takes it a step further than Denilson. Not only does he offer nothing on attack or defence, he completely screws up our cohesion in the middle. It's disjointed when we play and we can't even play that boring tippy tappy stuff because his positioning is so bad. With Denilson, we lacked creativity and he was bloody lazy. But he never left huge gaping gaps in the middle of the park that left us open this much.
Since Ramsey has come back from injury and been available, our record has been shocking. When we had Song, Arteta and Rosicky in the middle, the creativity was flowing and we looked solid down the middle. We've missed Arteta but even when he's played alongside Ramsey in the middle we have looked disjointed. I am so glad we only have one game left.
Denilson didn't develop as a player, Ramsey still has a chance to do that. But he has been generally poor since his return from injury. I don't think he brings the midfield down on his own, but when others aren't playing well he doesn't step up. A bit of a passenger. Denilson was different, he actually killed our game, slowed us down, broke up our play rather like the massively overrated Diaby. Fact is, we need better players than any of these full stop. That kid Coquelin was twice as effective as Ramsey today even though he made a few mistakes. Ox was also far more effective even though he didn't have a decisive impact. So Ramsey is a bit anonymous which is not as bad as Denilson who had a negative effect on the whole team.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Denilson was excellent in the 08/09 season as the main man in our midfield with Cesc dead when we went 20 odd games unbeaten and go to FA Cup and CL semi finals.
Cesc came back, killed Denilson and he never really recovered
Make Ramsey our main man in midfield and we'll be relegated by August
Who else was in that midfield?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ach
Ramsey has a negative effect on our team. Since coming back our midfield looks disjointed again and open. That's worse than Denilson's effect. Teams are dominating us now and that never used to happen. A few months back when he was out injured and it was Rosicky, Song and Arteta, we looked like the old Arsenal that was deadly. He's a serious problem and has to come out of the team. He plays in a crucial role and it's really killing us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I used to love how Denilson use to stroll around the pitch like it was a Sunday afternoon stroll. Whilst the opposition were busting a gut to get forward he'd lazily jog after them. :lol:
True but you have to remember we had Cesc before and he use to dictate play, I remember seeing us play without him and we were totally clueless and lacked creativity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Well he was the "main man in our midfield" when cesc was not there that time so he probs earned the right.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsMe
This is still being debated?
I cleared it up hours ago.
They are both not of the required standard to compete at the level we wish to be at.
/thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebus
Reminds me of the Old ACh vs Zimm debate over who was worse Denilson or Diaby.:haha:
Oh fuck me, we may as well chuck diaby in with them, he's shit too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner
Might as well chuck the whole sqaud plus mamagenet team plus board the way this board is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebus
Their all shit simples.
/Thread.
Wrong question really. Should be "is Ramsey worse than Denilson?". Better is a misleading term.
Ramsey is bad but not that bad.
Ramsey has been shocking but one thing I cannot fault him for is effort. Boy puts his heart and soul every time he is on the field.. something I could never say about Denilson. I know Ramseys best effort is still shocking but for me, effort > passengers.
I believe Rambo will get better. But no way was he ready to take on Cesc's role this early. Another case of AW trying to find a cheap replacement of a world class player with a promising player. Sometimes it works, most times it doesnt.
This is untrueQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner
Ramsey gets away with a lot because he's British. For Norwich's 2nd goal he was just as guilty as Song for not chasing back but it hardly gets noticed.Quote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
The scary part is we could possibly have them BOTH in our team next season.
I don't think it is worth considering at all. Denilson was awful - not the quality we required in MF at all. Oftentimes lazy, out of position and appearing completely spaced out as a result of not paying attention. I was over the moon he was gone, but disappointed he only went on loan. I never want to see him back in an Arsenal shirt again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
The only positive thing I can say about Denilson is that he is better than Ramsey.
Thing is, I think Ramsey runs that little bit more than Denilson. Yes, Ramsey's proven to be not as good a player as we thought. Whether that's through no fault of his own (i.e. due to his injury, or because of the way Wenger instructs him to play), I have no idea. However, in terms of effort and a desire to win, I think Ramsey has it in abundance (at least relatively speaking)
This is demonstrated in his goal return. I think he's scored more crucial goals than Denilson (e.g. the last minute winner at Marseille)
Denilson with the right players around him could've been a much better player. And whoever said he was out of position a lot. Well that's just wrong, he had very good positional sense, that was the best part of his game, just wasn't very physical.
Yes last year he had a very bad year, but with Denilson, just like Eboue, most of your seem to go very over board with supposedly bad he is.
Denilson and Ramsey are both average players and neither have any business playing for Arsenal.
I don't know what happen to Denilson, but at sometime he became too scared to pass the ball, he just started to just play the safe passes.
I remember he grew balls and tried to man up to Cesc in that Fa cup game he gave the pen to leeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by hobson's choice