Perspective People

[Seymour Butts]

As you can see I have been a member of this group for sometime. In the words of Mourinho I am more of a "voyeur" and do not post much. However, having read so much on here over the years I still see Wenger being questioned. Now I am no Wengerite and I do not agree with some of the things he does. However, people need to get a bit of perspective here. Wenger has wine 16 trophies (including charity shield) in 19/20 years. He moved us from Highbury to a 60k seater stadium and kept us in top 4 and qualified for knock out stages or CL whilst doing so. He revolutionised not only Arsenal but English foot ball as a whole. He was voted coach of the year at the SPOTY awards twice. He was voted manager of the season 3/4 times. He is an OBE. He has bought some of the best football ever seen in this country. We are the 7th richest club in the world and totally self sustained unlike Chelsea/man
City etc. He has overseen more PL games than all other managers in the PL combined. He is currently the longest serving "one club" manager in PL currently and only Alex Furguson can surpass that record in terms of the all time record. He has given us the likes of Henry, Sanchez, Ozil, Pires, Lunjberg, Viera, Petit, Overmars, Fabregas, Cech, Cambell, Bergkamp. He managed a team that went unbeaten for 49 games! Ok he didn't win a trophy for 8 years.....but since he has money to spend he has won 2 trophies in the last 2 years.....not the PL granted but other clubs have never won a trophy!!!

Do I agree with everything he does??? No! Would I like to have won the PL in last 10 years? Of course! However, just take a moment to read back everything above......how people can question him is beyond belief. LVG... Supposed to be one of top manages in football.....would I swap him for Wenger??? Would I Fuk!!!!!

Perspective people!!!!

[Letters]

I think people should be questioning Wenger if we don't challenge strongly for the title this year but I do agree, as I'm sure you know if you read this board, that the level of stick he gets on here is ludicrous. Every bump in the road is met by a chorus of "Wenger Out" posts. I don't think supporters of any other club would be doing that after the last 2 years and this year where we've qualified for the CL last 16 and are currently right in the title mix.
The 'last 10 years' argument is trotted out but it's a lazy, simplistic argument which doesn't take into account what we were up against in the first 8 years of that period or acknowledge how things have got better in the last 2.
A poor result tonight will bring a new chorus of "Wenger Out" posts, it's just the way things are on here. Meh.

[Power n Glory]

If Man Utd went on to win the FA Cup, do you think Man Utd fans would want LVG as a coach?

The two FA Cups you mention is a lazy argument and way too simplitsic. Formed under the assumption that fans are just pissed off by the lack of silverware.

[Globalgunner]

As you can see I have been a member of this group for sometime. In the words of Mourinho I am more of a "voyeur" and do not post much. However, having read so much on here over the years I still see Wenger being questioned. Now I am no Wengerite and I do not agree with some of the things he does. However, people need to get a bit of perspective here. Wenger has wine 16 trophies (including charity shield) in 19/20 years. He moved us from Highbury to a 60k seater stadium and kept us in top 4 and qualified for knock out stages or CL whilst doing so. He revolutionised not only Arsenal but English foot ball as a whole. He was voted coach of the year at the SPOTY awards twice. He was voted manager of the season 3/4 times. He is an OBE. He has bought some of the best football ever seen in this country. We are the 7th richest club in the world and totally self sustained unlike Chelsea/man
City etc. He has overseen more PL games than all other managers in the PL combined. He is currently the longest serving "one club" manager in PL currently and only Alex Furguson can surpass that record in terms of the all time record. He has given us the likes of Henry, Sanchez, Ozil, Pires, Lunjberg, Viera, Petit, Overmars, Fabregas, Cech, Cambell, Bergkamp. He managed a team that went unbeaten for 49 games! Ok he didn't win a trophy for 8 years.....but since he has money to spend he has won 2 trophies in the last 2 years.....not the PL granted but other clubs have never won a trophy!!!

Do I agree with everything he does??? No! Would I like to have won the PL in last 10 years? Of course! However, just take a moment to read back everything above......how people can question him is beyond belief. LVG... Supposed to be one of top manages in football.....would I swap him for Wenger??? Would I Fuk!!!!!

Perspective people!!!!

Given your shallow expectations of this club. I guess we could win the Fa cup this year and all would be dandy. Give the man another 3 year contract. You are the one who should get some perspective. Wengers time has long past. that great team of 2000-2004 should have won a lot more instead of being perennial CL no hopers. Why?, its obvious Wengers tactical deficiencies could not move even that great collection of talent over the line.
Great young managers are waiting in the wings, we have the means to achieve great things at this club. Wenger should get out of the way of progress.

[Letters]

If Man Utd went on to win the FA Cup, do you think Man Utd fans would want LVG as a coach?

If they finished 3rd and won the Cup and their fans thought there was potential for them to push on under him and challenge for the title again then maybe.
I wouldn't want LVG as our manager, he's spent a shitload of money, they play awful football and they're not looking like winning the league.

The two FA Cups you mention is a lazy argument and way too simplitsic. Formed under the assumption that fans are just pissed off by the lack of silverware.

So you'd want Wenger out if we'd won the league last year?! Of course it's because of the lack of silverware. Wenger has always had some of the flaws people hammer him for, back in the day when we were hoovering up titles and FA Cups regularly no-one wanted him gone because of it.

[Letters]

Given your shallow expectations of this club...
... we have the means to achieve great things at this club

You understand those expectations and those means are because of Wenger?

I actually agree that side back in the day could and should have won more. As I said some people seem to think that Wenger has suddenly developed flaws. Rubbish, he always had flaws but he has good points too and no-one was calling for his head back in the day because of the flaws. And, the point is, the next guy will have flaws too. Possibly more serious ones. Clearly at some point we will have a new manager and Wenger's time is probably near the end, but two years ago we had the financial clout to compete more seriously, it's had an immediate impact in terms of silverware and right now we're in the title mix. So long as we stay there I see no reason to scream "Wenger Out" after every poor result. It'll happen again tonight if we don't win.

[Gooner23]

Hasn't this conversation been done to death in all the other threads. Don't agree with some of the vitriol Wenger has faced (as I'm sure many don't), but we have under achieved and under performed in the league over the last few seasons. With the same mistakes being made over and over. Its going ok at the moment, but I'm still unconvinced we've really turned a corner. He's not getting sacked but I'd like to see him step down at the end of this contract, hopefully with another league title under his belt.

[Letters]

Imagine Wenger had been sacked 2 years ago, a new manager had come in, signed players like Ozil, Sanchez and Cech, won 2 FA Cups in a row and was currently right in the title mix. I seriously doubt anyone would be calling for their head. The financial situation changed a couple of years ago, the expectations change accordingly and while us failing to challenge for the title was disappointing the FA Cup win mitigated somewhat. I do expect us to challenge for the title properly this year, if we don't then Wenger should go. But is it so unreasonably to think we should assess where we are at the end of the season?

[Kano]

Hasn't this conversation been done to death in all the other threads. Don't agree with some of the vitriol Wenger has faced (as I'm sure many don't), but we have under achieved and under performed in the league over the last few seasons. With the same mistakes being made over and over. Its going ok at the moment, but I'm still unconvinced we've really turned a corner. He's not getting sacked but I'd like to see him step down at the end of this contract, hopefully with another league title under his belt.

That's definitely the earliest we are going to see him leave. Fans can call out for him to be sacked but that will never happen. 2017 is the earliest we'll see the change in terms of manager, no matter what happens this season.

[Power n Glory]

If they finished 3rd and won the Cup and their fans thought there was potential for them to push on under him and challenge for the title again then maybe.
I wouldn't want LVG as our manager, he's spent a shitload of money, they play awful football and they're not looking like winning the league.


So you'd want Wenger out if we'd won the league last year?! Of course it's because of the lack of silverware. Wenger has always had some of the flaws people hammer him for, back in the day when we were hoovering up titles and FA Cups regularly no-one wanted him gone because of it.

The question is if you think they’d be appeased with the FA Cup win. What if they didn’t feel he’s capable of winning the league and he spends unwisely in the transfer window, wasting resources? What if the style of play remains boring and the injuries just keep on racking up? That’s the current state they are in. Will an FA Cup negate all those complaints? I seriously doubt it. They’d want to see improvement in each of those areas.

What if Arsenal fans have similar complaints about our style of play, never looking like winning the league or the way we handle transfers? It’s not just about the trophies. Not for everyone. I’ve said before I’d want Wenger gone if he’d won another league title because he’d leave on a high at least. What we’re seeing in the league is exceptional. I doubt it will be replicated again and I can’t see Wenger going on a crazy title winning streak before he retires.