Wenger Out?

[Marc Overmars]

I don't remember a huge clamouring for his sacking at the turn of the year when our win vs QPR put us 4th. A few games then seemed to be enough to sour a lot of people's moods. This season has been a roller-coaster during which my mood about the team and manager have been all over the shop.

The clamour might not have been there but personally I've felt we've needed a change all season, that's always been an underlying feeling. Wenger made a terrible mistake in not anticipating the departures of Nasri and Fabregas and we suffered for it, that's when I really felt it's probably time for him to go. The form of the team has had no bearing because I believe strongly enough now that Wenger's time is up. Only a drastic improvment was going to change that, by that I mean a title challenge and a cup run, neither of which have happened.

I'll be the first to hold my hands up if we're here this time next year competing for honours, I'd love for Wenger to succeed again with us but I don't see it happening for him now. The last few weeks have been awesome but it's also left me confused and wondering why we aren't competitive enough when it matters. Ok you can argue that 4th place matters and we've done well to haul ourselves into contention for that but is that really the height of what we can hope to achieve now?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Of course it is mate, people are perfectly entitled to their own opinion. I just believe that if 4 games is enough to 'change' an opinion on removing the manager, then one can't have felt strongly enough about it in the first place.

So your saying a few fans are fickle? Personally alot of this AW out stuff is Knee Jerk imo. There are a few posters who genuinely want him out and are right in the reasons but there are also those who will say things in heat which they won't say 2 weeks later when the dust is settled.

[Flavs]

Its not a few games though is it, its the cyclical nature of our team and how they perform. Even bringing in all this experience hasn't stopped it.

Start slow...get real good...be shit for a while...good...really good...really really really shit....better....best.....die at the end.

Its been the same season after season for the last 5 years ffs. We always have shit loads of injuries, always get buried in awful PR propaganda from the club and always suffer the same bullshit from Wenger and Gazidis and nothing really changes, we still flatter to deceive that we are a good side and then just when you have a smile on your face and a spring in your step up pop Hull or WBA to beat us at home.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't remember a huge clamouring for his sacking at the turn of the year when our win vs QPR put us 4th. A few games then seemed to be enough to sour a lot of people's moods. This season has been a roller-coaster during which my mood about the team and manager have been all over the shop.

Totally agree, id say getting 3rd would be an achievement as people did not think we'd even finsish top 7 at xmas tbh. No way id say its Success though. For me id love us to succeed under wenger but having seen the mistakes he had made and not corrected them had made me skeptical to think, he can change his ways.

Don't think he will be sacked it will never happen but id like him to walk away with pride.

[LDG]

Its not a few games though is it, its the cyclical nature of our team and how they perform. Even bringing in all this experience hasn't stopped it.

Start slow...get real good...be shit for a while...good...really good...really really really shit....better....best.....die at the end.

Its been the same season after season for the last 5 years ffs. We always have shit loads of injuries, always get buried in awful PR propaganda from the club and always suffer the same bullshit from Wenger and Gazidis and nothing really changes, we still flatter to deceive that we are a good side and then just when you have a smile on your face and a spring in your step up pop Hull or WBA to beat us at home.

[LDG]

One thing fans do, season after season, is hope. I've always got excited about a new season, though this year was different. I was worried, big time.

But this lot have me hoping again. And,when you start getting that feeling, as a fan, nothing can stop me dreaming.

We may well collapse again. We may well buy two unknown french africans in the transfer window.

I'd rather think positive and take the positives from the last few games. The fans CAN help the team. And the unwavering support from the home crowd just recently, has gone hand in hand with the players performance. Likewise the effort has made the fans get behind them.

If there is one thing we can learn, is that we're all in it together, and rather than cast doubt, or stipulate a change in management, I'd rather keep the vibe going until the end of the season. And Wenger is right in that....we ALL need to do it together as a club. We may lose a game or two, but I think we should also remember that we have a part to play, win lose or draw, to keep getting behind the team, like we did, 4-0 down to Milan, without a hope.

Get in there Arsenal

[IBK]

Well no, we've played more than 5 games this season.

We're well into the season and are only a point behind the Spuds, a team who everyone has been sucking the cock of all season. Most people on here, me included at times, thought we were destined for mid-table this year. Now we're looking like a good side again and, more importantly, looking like a team. They look like they've got more steel about them, they've been behind in the last 4 league games and won the lot, we showed a lot of fight last week against AC Milan. It was all for nought in the end but you have to be proud of their efforts that night.

If you're going to (rightly) slate Wenger for our failings you have to give a bit of credit where it's due when we're doing better.
There are pretty good arguments on both sides I reckon but don't act like it's a couple of games here and there. I accept there have been false dawns before but it's the spirit of the side which is impressing me right now and it's ridiculous to give Wenger no credit for that. Whether we keep the momentum going remains to be seen of course.

Sensible stuff. People can talk about us being fickle if we are now in two minds about wenger after 5 games, but its simple really - the manner in which the team has played, and the spirit that they have shown demonstrates that the manager has not lost his players, and that Wenger has not forgotten how to make a team tick.

People grumble about CL football being regarded as an achievement - but we have to look at our current league position in context. It is almost impossible to compete with Citeh's wealth - the fact that Manure have been able to do so is a testament to the talent of the best British manager the country has ever seen - and even Manure are considerably better resourced than we are. Behind them - well we are just a point behind the team that have been the media's darlings all season, and who have repeatedly been described as having a far better/deeper squad than we have. Not bad going for what has been our worst season in recent years. Behind us are the Chavs - who have shown precisely what can happen when you decide a change of manager is the solution to underperformance...and look at Liverpool who appointed a club legend as manager, have spent shit-loads and may well not be playing European football at all next season.

We have to accept that the league is ever more competetive. If a new manager were to come in and finish 3rd or 4th any sensible fan would regard that as a decent achievement.

Also, we have to look at other factors. People bemoan our lack of consistency, pointing out that we have had good runs before and then the wheels have come off. Well, they have never come off sufficiently for us to lose a European place. Unlike Spurs. Unlike Liverpool. Unlike possibly the Chavs this season. We do need to keep things in context.

Then look at what we have had to contend with this season. Our captain and best player, and another 2 important players leaving over the Summer, in very disruptive circumstances. Even Citeh would have struggled if they had lost Ya Ya Toure and Silva. What if Manure had lost Rooney and Valencia? Even with resources, your best players are difficult to replace, and them leaving will disrupt/weaken a team - at least temporarily. And thats before we even get to our season-long injury crisis. We have lost arguably our best midfielder for the entire season, and played half the season without a left back. Its no coincidence that our team looks far more balanced and far more threatening with Gibbs and Sagna back.

We rightly criticise the manager's decision making - and we had a miserable Summer, and have suffered from Wenger's stubbornness in not ringing in proper cover - particularly up front (although that particular gamble has worked so far). But lets in fairness look at the things he has got right. We criticise his perserverance with the likes of Ramsey, Djourou, Walcott - but he perservered also with RVP and Rosicky through years of injury. He seems to have bought duds in Chamakh; Park but Koscielny; Oxlade; Arteta; Mertesacker have all been shrewd signings. Jenkinson and Santos both showed glimpses of potential before their respective long term injuries. For a last minute panic mass buy - last Summer's signings, while disruptive in the short term, may well largely prove to be suceessful ones. It is not an easy thing to pull off mass successful signings.

Wenger still has much to prove - for the rest of the season and over the Summer - but where we are now, as opposed to a month ago, is that there is reason to hope that he can get it right.

[Syn]

I'd rather think positive and take the positives from the last few games. The fans CAN help the team. And the unwavering support from the home crowd just recently, has gone hand in hand with the players performance. Likewise the effort has made the fans get behind them.

Seemed like the crowd were giving Krul a hard time right from the start. I didn't think he was wasting too much time but the fans were drawing attention to it. It's possible that 5 mins added on could've been 4 mins had it not been for the crowd being petulant and booing the fuck out of him.

[dazthegooner]

Durging the season I was on of the people that thought it was time for him to go not changed my mind 100% but if we keep going on the way we are and make a couple of quality signings(and get rid of the deadwood) will give him the benefit of the doubt but if things are still the same January bye bye Wenger!

[LDG]

Sensible stuff. People can talk about us being fickle if we are now in two minds about wenger after 5 games, but its simple really - the manner in which the team has played, and the spirit that they have shown demonstrates that the manager has not lost his players, and that Wenger has not forgotten how to make a team tick.

People grumble about CL football being regarded as an achievement - but we have to look at our current league position in context. It is almost impossible to compete with Citeh's wealth - the fact that Manure have been able to do so is a testament to the talent of the best British manager the country has ever seen - and even Manure are considerably better resourced than we are. Behind them - well we are just a point behind the team that have been the media's darlings all season, and who have repeatedly been described as having a far better/deeper squad than we have. Not bad going for what has been our worst season in recent years. Behind us are the Chavs - who have shown precisely what can happen when you decide a change of manager is the solution to underperformance...and look at Liverpool who appointed a club legend as manager, have spent shit-loads and may well not be playing European football at all next season.

We have to accept that the league is ever more competetive. If a new manager were to come in and finish 3rd or 4th any sensible fan would regard that as a decent achievement.

Also, we have to look at other factors. People bemoan our lack of consistency, pointing out that we have had good runs before and then the wheels have come off. Well, they have never come off sufficiently for us to lose a European place. Unlike Spurs. Unlike Liverpool. Unlike possibly the Chavs this season. We do need to keep things in context.

Then look at what we have had to contend with this season. Our captain and best player, and another 2 important players leaving over the Summer, in very disruptive circumstances. Even Citeh would have struggled if they had lost Ya Ya Toure and Silva. What if Manure had lost Rooney and Valencia? Even with resources, your best players are difficult to replace, and them leaving will disrupt/weaken a team - at least temporarily. And thats before we even get to our season-long injury crisis. We have lost arguably our best midfielder for the entire season, and played half the season without a left back. Its no coincidence that our team looks far more balanced and far more threatening with Gibbs and Sagna back.

We rightly criticise the manager's decision making - and we had a miserable Summer, and have suffered from Wenger's stubbornness in not ringing in proper cover - particularly up front (although that particular gamble has worked so far). But lets in fairness look at the things he has got right. We criticise his perserverance with the likes of Ramsey, Djourou, Walcott - but he perservered also with RVP and Rosicky through years of injury. He seems to have bought duds in Chamakh; Park but Koscielny; Oxlade; Arteta; Mertesacker have all been shrewd signings. Jenkinson and Santos both showed glimpses of potential before their respective long term injuries. For a last minute panic mass buy - last Summer's signings, while disruptive in the short term, may well largely prove to be suceessful ones. It is not an easy thing to pull off mass successful signings.

Wenger still has much to prove - for the rest of the season and over the Summer - but where we are now, as opposed to a month ago, is that there is reason to hope that he can get it right.