Spuds Fans Imploding

[Özim]

It was not a straight knockout. The ties are two-legged, that will obviously give an advantage to the better teams anyway.

That's what I meant, the point is though away goals are a real problem in two legged affairs.

A bad result at home, 3-2 for example can't be very hard to recover from, Benfica showed that against us in 92, when we got done at home with away goals pretty much finishing us off (after a draw in the 1st leg), likewise Chelsea in the semi.

The group stages are p*ss easy IMO.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Always felt the European Cup felt a lot more special, to qualify you had to achieve something which is very hard to do, win your own league. This meant that you didn't qualify for it all the time and that when you did it have that extra special something about it.

Nowadays getting 3rd/4th gets you in, so basically you don't have to win anything or even be anywhere near the winners of your league, makes a mockery of the competition to have this. I'd rather see cup winners go into it than 3rd/4th place, at least they've had to win something to qualify.

I don't see why you should be rewarded for losing to be honest.

Problem with that it would either be the teams that wins the league who wins the cup or like Chelsea this season then how would it be decided.

I think the Fa cup winners should get in the CL gut the 4th place thing. Don't think the CC winner should get in the CL spot.

I can see why Uefa may not want that. Can you immagine if A team like Cardiff or Barnsley or even Stoke one the cup. It would be bad for the comp in their eyes.

If you think that 3/4 get a reward for loosing then does that not apply to 2nd place too?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That's what I meant, the point is though away goals are a real problem in two legged affairs.

A bad result at home, 3-2 for example can't be very hard to recover from, Benfica showed that against us in 92, when we got done at home with away goals pretty much finishing us off (after a draw in the 1st leg), likewise Chelsea in the semi.

The group stages are p*ss easy IMO.

Too many games though, I know what you mean id you loose 1 game you can rely on 5 others but it takes a lot out of you. and was even worse when the had 3 group stages.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

That's what I meant, the point is though away goals are a real problem in two legged affairs.

A bad result at home, 3-2 for example can't be very hard to recover from, Benfica showed that against us in 92, when we got done at home with away goals pretty much finishing us off (after a draw in the 1st leg), likewise Chelsea in the semi.

The group stages are p*ss easy IMO.

We could easily get a group of ourselves, Shakhtar Donetsk, Juventus and Borussia Dortmund next season. If you're lucky in the draw, it can be 'piss easy' but other times, you can get a nightmare group. Just ask Citeh.

Away goals are a danger but they're a danger for the inferior side in each tie too. The rallying against the Champions League for me is missing the point slightly - we get the benefit of being able to qualify for the competition from a position of third and fourth because English sides have been able to do well year-on-year.

And why is that? The big smoking gun would be the money Premier League teams get from the gravy train competiton we're involved in for 38 games a season.

[Özim]

Problem with that it would either be the teams that wins the league who wins the cup or like Chelsea this season then how would it be decided.

I think the Fa cup winners should get in the CL gut the 4th place thing. Don't think the CC winner should get in the CL spot.

I can see why Uefa may not want that. Can you immagine if A team like Cardiff or Barnsley or even Stoke one the cup. It would be bad for the comp in their eyes.

If a CL place was offered I don't think you'd see too many teams like Cardiff winning the cup, to be honest the teams who win the FA Cup tend to be pretty good.

The CC shouldn't get a CL place I agree, I think 1st the cup winners and then maybe the winners of a playoff between 2nd-5th maybe should get a 3rd place if we had to let 3 teams in.

You'd have more of a sense of achievement, a bit like the playoff finals we have now.

[IBK]

While I'll always revel in Sp*rs' misfortune, its difficult not to sympathise with their predicament. They are, like us, suffering because of a steep playing field where success correlates simply with how much money you have. CL football was so important to them because of the ability to attract top talent and trying to avoid your best players leaving, just like us. They were having their most successful ever season, and then imploded - just like we tend to do...

...but in a specific, rather than a general way its stretching a point to say Chelsea bought that trophy on Saturday. They won firstly through sheer good luck, secondly through mental strength, and thirdly through pragmatic Mourinho-style tactics, the second and third of which are the main problems with Wenger's teams. So while the Chelsea win, and its ramifications for more or less ensuring that they will remain a stronger club than our's for the forseeable future - sickens me, it also turns an uncomfortable mirror on our own team.

[Syn]

We had as tough group this year. Dortmund absolutely battered us 1-1 but them we killed them in our back yard didn't we? Should be interesting to see how Dortmund get on next year. They don't particularly seem dependent on anyone and they will retain their stars over the summer minus kagawa. Seem to be everyone's second favourite.

[Özim]

We could easily get a group of ourselves, Shakhtar Donetsk, Juventus and Borussia Dortmund next season. If you're lucky in the draw, it can be 'piss easy' but other times, you can get a nightmare group. Just ask Citeh.

Away goals are a danger but they're a danger for the inferior side in each tie too. The rallying against the Champions League for me is missing the point slightly - we get the benefit of being able to qualify for the competition from a position of third and fourth because English sides have been able to do well year-on-year.

And why is that? The big smoking gun would be the money Premier League teams get from the gravy train competiton we're involved in for 38 games a season.

True but that's very rare, being a seed it means you tend to avoid the harder teams. Away goals are a danger for both teams yes, but what a 2 legged tie doesn't allow is complacency, if you have a bad game and get done by a smaller team it's hard to recover from.

You have a point, but I just don't like the idea of 3rd/4th getting in, would rather see the winner of a playoff with a cup at the end like the playoff's in lower divisions and the cup winner going into the CL.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

If a CL place was offered I don't think you'd see too many teams like Cardiff winning the cup, to be honest the teams who win the FA Cup tend to be pretty good.

The CC shouldn't get a CL place I agree, I think 1st the cup winners and then maybe the winners of a playoff between 2nd-5th maybe should get a 3rd place if we had to let 3 teams in.

You'd have more of a sense of achievement, a bit like the playoff finals we have now.

Well thats true and im sure as much as Chavs fans are happy it would have been better if they won it as EPL Champs like the Mancs did.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

...but in a specific, rather than a general way its stretching a point to say Chelsea bought that trophy on Saturday. They won firstly through sheer good luck, secondly through mental strength, and thirdly through pragmatic Mourinho-style tactics, the second and third of which are the main problems with Wenger's teams. So while the Chelsea win, and its ramifications for more or less ensuring that they will remain a stronger club than our's for the forseeable future - sickens me, it also turns an uncomfortable mirror on our own team.

you hit the nail on the head tbh.

Maybe it was Chavs Destiny to win the thing as they keep saying.