I've given up on football

[Boss]

These kinds of threads pop up once every couple weeks, usually after we drop points. If people were honest about losing their interest in football clubs' TV revenue wouldn't continue to rise and nor would clubs' fan bases. The drama in football is unparalleled by any other sport, as we saw in last year's title race and even CL tourney.

It is possible to win without spending a fuckload of money, as we saw with Dortmund and Montpellier last year. Can't help but think there wouldn't be these sorts of threads if we were still winning stuff.

[Niall_Quinn]

These kinds of threads pop up once every couple weeks, usually after we drop points. If people were honest about losing their interest in football clubs' TV revenue wouldn't continue to rise and nor would clubs' fan bases. The drama in football is unparalleled by any other sport, as we saw in last year's title race and even CL tourney.

It is possible to win without spending a fuckload of money, as we saw with Dortmund and Montpellier last year. Can't help but think there wouldn't be these sorts of threads if we were still winning stuff.

Are you really so superficial to believe people who are becoming disenchanted with football (or have already left the game) are primarily concerned about dropped points? Is it beyond all reason there could be more to it than that? Or that upward trends in commercialism may not automatically suggest contentment among the masses? The drama you speak of is in reality a slight variance in what otherwise is utterly predictable. Who "dramatically" snatched the title last season? Which of the billionaire clubs who simply spent until they got what they wanted? The sheer drama. Dortmund and Montpellier don't play in the Premier League. But you could have a point, maybe there is more integrity in the foreign leagues and they are worth a watch this season - excluding the comedy in Spain of course.

[Boss]

Are you really so superficial to believe people who are becoming disenchanted with football (or have already left the game) are primarily concerned about dropped points? Is it beyond all reason there could be more to it than that? Or that upward trends in commercialism may not automatically suggest contentment among the masses? The drama you speak of is in reality a slight variance in what otherwise is utterly predictable. Who "dramatically" snatched the title last season? Which of the billionaire clubs who simply spent until they got what they wanted? The sheer drama. Dortmund and Montpellier don't play in the Premier League. But you could have a point, maybe there is more integrity in the foreign leagues and they are worth a watch this season - excluding the comedy in Spain of course.

Football 'died' at the start of the Premier League, and more importantly the start of the Champions League, in 1992 when the gap between the top clubs and the poor clubs became too big to surmount and increased exponentially (CL money enabling clubs to buy new players to qualify for the CL again and again). I didn't hear any complaining from Arsenal fans because we were one of the lucky clubs to benefit from this, along with the brilliance of one Arsene Wenger. Footballers have always been mercenary ****s... I'm sure you remember Anelka way back in 1999, Figo in 2000, Campbell in 2001 and so on. Footballers are less likely to leave a winning club though, so we didn't experience as much of that back then as we do now, which is fair enough given no trophies in seven years.

All that has happened with the introduction of the sugar daddy is more rich clubs, and thus more people to potentially poach from us when in the past only Real/Barca could do so. These sugar daddies have also seen an increase in the amount of competition, with 4 winners in the second half of the PL compared to 3 in the first half. Despite this increase of rich clubs, it follows my argument that players are unlikely to leave clubs pushing for trophies - how many players have left the likes of Man U, Chelsea, Juventus, Inter Milan, Real, Barca, Bayern without the clubs themselves actually wanting them to leave? Even with Ibrahimovic and Silva leaving Milan, that makes two in around ten years. Even Liverpool have managed to keep most of their players, although this may be due to most of them being shite.

If football is truly so much different from the 'good old days' (which I doubt, today sees far more overall quality spread across the league), then stop watching it. I doubt anyone that posted in this thread will though, because it is still a reasonable amount of entertainment and despite us not winning anything I enjoy most of our games.

[Niall_Quinn]

Football 'died' at the start of the Premier League...
...If football is truly so much different from the 'good old days' (which I doubt, today sees far more overall quality spread across the league), then stop watching it. I doubt anyone that posted in this thread will though, because it is still a reasonable amount of entertainment and despite us not winning anything I enjoy most of our games.

Haven't seen a game since the Euros, which was a dreadful tournament and a classic example of how hyped football really is. I'm not interested in the football on the pitch any more because it is entirely one dimensional and predictable. One too many seasons watching the same old shit, not just from Arsenal but from all of them. The odd game from Barcelona broke the monotony I suppose. When Arsenal was winning all those trophies, it was never about the baubles - it was about the quality of the football. It was something worth watching, a sight to see. If any team can offer that again, I'll pay to see it.

[gooners]

Football 'died' at the start of the Premier League, and more importantly the start of the Champions League, in 1992 when the gap between the top clubs and the poor clubs became too big to surmount and increased exponentially (CL money enabling clubs to buy new players to qualify for the CL again and again). I didn't hear any complaining from Arsenal fans because we were one of the lucky clubs to benefit from this, along with the brilliance of one Arsene Wenger. Footballers have always been mercenary ****s... I'm sure you remember Anelka way back in 1999, Figo in 2000, Campbell in 2001 and so on. Footballers are less likely to leave a winning club though, so we didn't experience as much of that back then as we do now, which is fair enough given no trophies in seven years.

All that has happened with the introduction of the sugar daddy is more rich clubs, and thus more people to potentially poach from us when in the past only Real/Barca could do so. These sugar daddies have also seen an increase in the amount of competition, with 4 winners in the second half of the PL compared to 3 in the first half. Despite this increase of rich clubs, it follows my argument that players are unlikely to leave clubs pushing for trophies - how many players have left the likes of Man U, Chelsea, Juventus, Inter Milan, Real, Barca, Bayern without the clubs themselves actually wanting them to leave? Even with Ibrahimovic and Silva leaving Milan, that makes two in around ten years. Even Liverpool have managed to keep most of their players, although this may be due to most of them being shite.

spot! ... on!

[tpyo]

Thanks for the long reply NQ. Ahhh memories of the 80's, just a bit before my time of proper consciousness (child of '81) but nice to remember.

I think Boss nails it (in at least the perspective I'm aware of) that the EPL was one of the changing factors leading us to this present scenario. I remember the time in the early/mid 90's when Alan Shearer went to Blackburn for a record breaking and then "staggering" sum of £3.3 million. The formation of the EPL was the turning point then leading us now to (two decades on) players like Nasri and RVP going for £25 million with only ONE YEAR left on their contract plus an insane weekly wage. It defies 90's logic. It defies any logic tbh. If I were to predict a bubble I'd be pointing at footy but given my research on my article "predicting the next few decades" I'm hard pressed to find a point where things will go back to how they were. The only possible scenario is an utter collapse of the football market (which kills of the yanks) along with a world-wide decline in oil prices or consumption of oil (which kills off the sheikhs and oligarchs).

If we recall correctly our misfortune was a result of the insanity of "British talent" fetching absurd sums. This led Wenger to plucking talent from afar and bringing some of the worlds brightest and youngest to Arsenal who unfortunately never felt the loyalty of wanting to play for the club. Perhaps its the introduction of player agents, perhaps the fact they're not local boys, perhaps its just anyone born of this generation. As I've said before the litmus test of "local boys" is probably Jack Wilshere. He's been with Arsenal since the age of 9 and lives and grew up in Hitchen in the nearby county of Hertfordshire so it will be interesting to see how long he hangs around for.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I think this thread should be in other football chat.

It's not really anything to do with arsenal per se.

[tpyo]

To make even less about football, consider this as a final nail in the coffin for supporters vs followers:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/american-football/19338119

once one sport is doing it, it's likely others will follow. I think its perfectly viable that in the future matches of the EPL will be played in other countries (as they already tried to do once).

[KSE Comedy Club]

To make even less about football, consider this as a final nail in the coffin for supporters vs followers:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/american-football/19338119

once one sport is doing it, it's likely others will follow. I think its perfectly viable that in the future matches of the EPL will be played in other countries (as they already tried to do once).

The only good thing about the outco e last time was that they didn't have the backing and support of all the pl clubs.
Which I think will always remain the case.

[tpyo]

I doubt that. Glazer, Henry, Kroenke, Mansour and Ambramovich all have good reasons to export their brand further. Any negative votes to such proposals they make at present are purely because they don't want to antagonise fans IMO.
I think we'd see a change in voting if they felt they could get away with it.