Women's World Cup

[IBK]

Who said that? I don't think anyone on here did.
I think we all agree that he shouldn't have done it. But calling it "sexual assault", saying he "forced himself on her". This language isn't helpful.
There's a case for him to be sacked, although personally I think that's a bit of an over-reaction - he got caught up in the moment, he didn't grope her or worse.
The level of furore was been ridiculous, it's actually become "the story" and somewhat overshadowed the fact they actually won the World Cup.
Sacking the manager is ridiculous - although it sounds like he should have been sacked anyway for other reasons, they just used this as an excuse to boot him out the door.

Personally, this seems like a mountain out of a molehill for me - although I understand that it speaks to a bigger issue of mysogyny.

Rubiales' stupidity was doubling down. Had he made a full and sincere apology - 'I got caught up in the moment etc and I accept that my actions were inappropriate and unwanted' then I think he would probably still be in a job.

[HCZ_Reborn]

HCZ said it for one

in his post on p11 he says:

"What I like is that the only person who has taken a moderate stance on this is Jenni Hermoso herself."

She had previously taken a moderate view in that she didn’t get involved in the fray just stated that she didn’t like it.

I suspect (although can’t prove) that she came under pressure to become more activist about it

Because ultimately these incidents are never solely about the person who has done something and the person they’ve done it too, they become a paradigm case for sexual assault (which this absolutely wasn’t) which is unfair both on the aggrieved and the person guilty of malfeasance.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Personally, this seems like a mountain out of a molehill for me - although I understand that it speaks to a bigger issue of mysogyny.

Rubiales' stupidity was doubling down. Had he made a full and sincere apology - 'I got caught up in the moment etc and I accept that my actions were inappropriate and unwanted' then I think he would probably still be in a job.

100% agree with this

I think the other factor is politics, there was clearly a long running issue between the players, the coach and the football association. But yes as I previously said Rubiales is a moron

[Letters]

"What I like is that the only person who has taken a moderate stance on this is Jenni Hermoso herself."

HCZ has covered this, but those two statements are not equivalent.

[Mac76]

She had previously taken a moderate view in that she didn’t get involved in the fray just stated that she didn’t like it.

I suspect (although can’t prove) that she came under pressure to become more activist about it

Because ultimately these incidents are never solely about the person who has done something and the person they’ve done it too, they become a paradigm case for sexual assault (which this absolutely wasn’t) which is unfair both on the aggrieved and the person guilty of malfeasance.

It's hardly moderate for the entire Spanish women's football team (including Hermoso) to refuse to play again while he is in post - which they announced not long after the incident.

And in any case she said shortly afterwards - see article below from, err, 24 August - that "‘I felt the victim of aggression, a sexist act’"

https://www.theguardian.com/football...tement-in-full

Give it up mate

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's hardly moderate for the entire Spanish women's football team (including Hermoso) to refuse to play again while he is in post - which they announced not long after the incident.

And in any case she said shortly afterwards - see article below from, err, 24 August - that "‘I felt the victim of aggression, a sexist act’"

https://www.theguardian.com/football...tement-in-full

Give it up mate

Give what up? The idea that I don’t think a sexual assault has taken place. Even in her own words she’s described it as sexist (misogynist) which given his follow up remarks probably isn’t that inaccurate. But it is a storm in a teacup and far more indicative of an ongoing feud between the players and the organisation than anything else.

And again I’ll say that most of what I’ve said on the subject regards the coach Jorge Vilda, who again appears to have been dragged into this row in order to justify what they wanted to do anyway. And I think that’s not on. You disagree, you seem to think that if something upsets your preconceived notions of right and wrong that it doesn’t matter who gets caught up in the whirlwind

I know you’ve used it as throwaway remark but also I’m not your mate just something to keep in mind

[Mac76]

Give what up? The idea that I don’t think a sexual assault has taken place. Even in her own words she’s described it as sexist (misogynist) which given his follow up remarks probably isn’t that inaccurate. But it is a storm in a teacup and far more indicative of an ongoing feud between the players and the organisation than anything else.

And again I’ll say that most of what I’ve said on the subject regards the coach Jorge Vilda, who again appears to have been dragged into this row in order to justify what they wanted to do anyway. And I think that’s not on. You disagree, you seem to think that if something upsets your preconceived notions of right and wrong that it doesn’t matter who gets caught up in the whirlwind

I know you’ve used it as throwaway remark but also I’m not your mate just something to keep in mind

You conveniently leave out the word 'aggression' and in general are exhibiting NQ-level denial

"I feel the need to denounce this as I feel that no one, in no work space, sporting or social, should be a victim to this time of unconsensual behaviour. I felt vulnerable and a victim of aggression, an impulsive act, sexist, out of place and without any type of consent from my part."

That's pretty strong in anyone's book and hardly sounds like someone who wasn't that bothered, as you desperately try to maintain just because you'd rather talk about cancel culture, rather than accept the harm the actions of people like Rubiales do and why it's important for people to call it out

PS don't worry i wasn't under any illusions on that

[HCZ_Reborn]

You conveniently leave out the word 'aggression' and in general are exhibiting NQ-level denial

"I feel the need to denounce this as I feel that no one, in no work space, sporting or social, should be a victim to this time of unconsensual behaviour. I felt vulnerable and a victim of aggression, an impulsive act, sexist, out of place and without any type of consent from my part."

That's pretty strong in anyone's book and hardly sounds like someone who wasn't that bothered, as you desperately try to maintain just because you'd rather talk about cancel culture, rather than accept the harm the actions of people like Rubiales do and why it's important for people to call it out

PS don't worry i wasn't under any illusions on that

And what I’m saying is these remarks come across as contrived and coached especially when words like harm are used. It’s the type of PR washed statement that you can recognise a mile away. As I said my mistaken impression was that she’d taken a low key approach to things, but evidently even if she was inclined to do so that could not have happened.

And it’s utterly disingenuous of you to again ignore the context of where I inserted cancel culture into the conversation, it was in respect of Jorge Vilda. On its own I don’t believe what Rubiales did was a sackable offence but the way he then doubled down in a press conference means I have no sympathy for him….I said this already. But even if he hadn’t made those remarks I feel he’d have been forced out partly for political reasons and partly because of this puritanical censorious mood going about where people who do stupid things need to be subject to the modern equivalent of charivardi.

Me in my simple naive innocence believe a punishment should be proportional to the offence. The offence I took to be an inappropriate action made in a moment of high drama and jubilation, rather than the sexual assault you wish to portray it as.

If he had a history of such behaviour? Fine gone, He’s made silly remarks since then? Fine gone. And I don’t think this spectacle in anyway serves to help women against actual abusers…and yes I’ve come across them in the work place and I’ve had to persuade female friends who have been assaulted to go to the police so I don’t exactly take the issue lightly

[Mac76]

Me in my simple naive innocence believe a punishment should be proportional to the offence. The offence I took to be an inappropriate action made in a moment of high drama and jubilation, rather than the sexual assault you wish to portray it as.

well it is naive to think an old fart like Rubiales wouldn't simply be grabbing the opportunity to snog a young women in the knowledge (or so he thought) that he could get away with it.

people like him have traded off that 'caught up in the moment' BS for years

and again, sacking him's completely proportionate given his position as the head of women's football in Spain and the example he needs to set

oh and by the way if you want to talk about pressure being put on Hermoso, she says the pressure was all from the other side: "I have to state that I have been under constant pressure to come out with some sort of statement that would justify the acts of Mr Luis Rubiales."

[Letters]

people like him have traded off that 'caught up in the moment' BS for years

Have they, though? When you hear accounts of women who have suffered at the hands of genuine predators, the acts are almost always in private or subtle. They're always telling the victim that it's a secret and or threatening them with consequences if they tell - or telling them they won't be believed because of the power or status imbalance between the victim and perpetrator.
This really wasn't like that. Although I do take the point about the example he should be setting, and his failure to immediately show contrition and decision to double down strengthened the case for his sacking.