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Thread: Winter Transfer Missed Opportunities and Regrets

  1. #711
    ***** Niall_Quinn's Avatar
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    Not having a go at you btw IBK, appreciate the post and I CAN see there is another side to the argument. It's just I don't find it convincing given the urgency of the present situation. It really annoys me to throw away this season for want of - what will we call it? - an admission we fucked up in the summer? Or, even simpler, a logical, reasonable, sensible response to an unfortunate injury situation.

    I see the whole thing as crazy. When you MUST do something and you do NOTHING, what are the predictions for your fortunes?
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    ***** Niall_Quinn's Avatar
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    Funnily enough, if I don't stop posting here and I don't get back to work and finish something that MUST be completed I'll be deep in the shit. I'm not even questioning whether I should stop now and get to work. Why would I even need to question that unless I'm actively seeking disaster?
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  3. #713
    Resident Liverpool Fan Shaqiri Is Boss's Avatar
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    Tbh I can't really get it in to my head that the title is anywhere near done. Right now it's 6 points and a game in hand against Everton. A game in hand at Goodison for us is different to a game in h... blah blah. There's still that many games left. That many games which come after Champions Leagues weeks for example, 6 points is nothing.

    As much as neither you or us won't be perfect between now and the end of the season, which for however many years we've almost had to be (and there is something to that fact; if a team isn't constantly winning shockingly neither do you; but it really wouldn't surprise me if at some point in the next few months you are, if not in front, then within one game/level.

    On the other hand, I am a pessimistic fuck. Hopefully you'll get a few more sent off for kicking the ball away tbf...

  4. #714
    MOe Marc Overmars's Avatar
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    If you win at Goodison and take it to 9 points I think it’s pretty much done. I really don’t see us being perfect enough to claw back that big of a gap. Still a lot of banana skins for us both but there’s a lot that needs to go right for us to make this an interesting race.

    I did see that Anfield is 3rd last fixture of the season. If we’re within touching distance by that game what an mental occasion that will be.

  5. #715
    Administrator Letters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Overmars View Post
    If you win at Goodison and take it to 9 points I think it’s pretty much done. I really don’t see us being perfect enough to claw back that big of a gap. Still a lot of banana skins for us both but there’s a lot that needs to go right for us to make this an interesting race.

    I did see that Anfield is 3rd last fixture of the season. If we’re within touching distance by that game what an mental occasion that will be.


    We really have to hope Everton do us a favour. 6 points I'm not too worried about, there's long enough to go that we could get that back. 9 points...not so much.
    I guess a draw would acceptable and probably the best we can hope for.

  6. #716
    Member WMUG's Avatar
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    I dunno, last Derby at Goodison. Place will be rocking, team motivated, still enjoying the new manager bounce.

    An Everton win isn't beyond the realms of possibility.
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  7. #717
    Member Mac76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMUG View Post
    I dunno, last Derby at Goodison. Place will be rocking, team motivated, still enjoying the new manager bounce.

    An Everton win isn't beyond the realms of possibility.
    I still think Liverpool will spoil that particular party, I think the title is done, there's no 'race', but if we can tread water to make top 4 and prioritise the LC and CL we could get something

  8. #718
    Member IBK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    You've just said it yourself though, despite horrific officiating and also the key injuries, we are still a good team, the best you say. And we've finished 3rd in the CL qualifiers and we're second in the PL, we still have to go to Anfield and Liverpool still have to navigate through tough games and avoid the issues we have face (and most teams eventually face over the course of a season). So we aren't out of this title yet, and we aren't out of the CL yet.

    We didn't help ourselves at all in the summer, agreed. So here was a chance to rectify that. And it's not as if there wasn't talent out there we could have picked up, in fact it now sounds like we could have signed Watkins if we chose to do that, and that manager wanted to do that. But we had non-football people banging on about age and sell-on fees. The sustainable gang. Well I would say of that's the goal, sustainability to the last penny, it's the very definition of a lack of ambition in football or any sport. Not saying they should put in stupid bids for unnecessary players, but can you think of a time, a critical point in any season, when we more desperately needed a specific type of player? And we didn't do that. Because the sell-on fee might be an issue.

    Sounds like Arteta had to persuade them to back him. Sounds like Arteta also realised there was no option here, we had to get a striker in. Sounds like all the usual shit that has plagued Arsenal over so many years scuppered that deal again. How is that classed as ambition? It's more like sabotage. Sustainable, for sure, they've kept their money in their pockets, can't get more sustainable than that. But serving the interests of the club, to win on the pitch and bring in trophies, which we actually have a chance of doing? It's bullshit, an abandonment of duty and a disregard for the reason we're all here. If the whole Watkins thing goes wrong then sell him in the summer and take the loss. Or sell some other player who we don't actually need (like Zinchenko) and offset that against Watkin's undesirable sell-on fee.

    Watkins aside, what about Rashford. Yes, as distasteful as that might be. Was that deal undoable as well? Even on a loan? I don't know, maybe Utd wouldn't have even spoken to us, but surely they are more concerned with Villa's fortunes than ours this season. Or any of the loan deals that were made, that Evan Ferguson kid. Arsenal standard? I don't know. Was MLS or Nwaneri Arsenal standard before they got a chance?

    I don't think the club has a lg to stand on here. I think this is pure negligence and I think that negligence has come about due to a complete lack of ambition. What other reason can there be? Are we saying we'll go bust if we sign Watkins? We can't work around that? Are we saying our summer plan is so exceptional and so guaranteed we could do nothing to jeapordise that, even as Saka and Jesus are laid up in the treatment room?

    I see ample evidence for a lack of ambition. I see a make-do-and-mend mentality. Keep us bubbling at just the level so those seats are occupied and that waiting list is long and that shop has the tills ringing. That's how they measure success, not in trophies but in profit margins. I;d also like to see a real breakdown of expenditure over the Kroenke years, not just gross and net spends. I want to see the full amount of what came in and what percentage of that was then returned in transfer activity, both in and out. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that number was heavily weighted in the Kronekes' favour. I don't know those numbers, would just be interested to see them. Sustainability would mean us balancing what comes in and what goes out, wouldn't it? Is that what we have been doing or is cash piling up in Kroenke's bank account. It's time to start looking into that again.

    I didn't want to see a buzzing transfer window for the excitement of it. I wanted to see bodies coming in to replace the fallen bodies who aren't on the pitch. That's just common sense and all the other considerations be damned. We have to get from here to the end of the season and do the best we can with the 3 chances we have to land silverware. But if we are saying, forget this season, wait until the summer and then we go again next season - well how is that not a lack of ambition when 3 chances of silverware are still there, in front of us? How?

    I think it's important Arteta has made a statement about his disappointment because now, hopefully, the fans can get behind him and the players (who did excellently against Wolves and then city), and point the finger where it deserves to be pointed.

    I mean in the end, Kroenke has sent daddy's boy from over the pond to run a club that has almost as much history as the USA. Fuck that and fuck them.

    Jesus injured, Saka injured, Eddie sold and Sterling literally this bum living in our house. Did we absolutely need to do business this transfer window? How could anyone suggest we didn't?

    Well, I'm going to back Haverta and Trossard and Martinelli and that kid on which we have now pinned so much, Nwaneri, and I'm even going to pray to the gods that Sterling somehow managed to conjure up some las hurrah. Then I'm going to pray for a miracle that none of them get injured between now and the end of the season. Because that's all the penny-pinching, blind and disinterested accountants who run this club have left us with.

    In my book, bastards to a man and it would be better if they would GTFO and let somebody come in and push this club the last few yards.
    So...I get the lack of ambition argument, and I think this is a valid way to look at things...but not the only one.

    If we pan out - the era of unbridled/unplanned spending appears to be over. We all feared that Newcastle would dominate the league when the Saudi's took over, but they have been shackled by FFP. Citeh have done some spending in this transfer window - but everyone sensible can see that these acquisitions are for the future - as a rebuild is necessary. Chelsea have (mystifyingly) managed to spunk billions but their approach seems to be to buy every young prospect in football, tie them to hugely long contracts and then sieve them to try to create a winning team - again a longer term play. Investors like the Kroenke's are almost certainly seeing things longer term. Like I say, they have spent a lot of money - particularly considering our historic failure to gain decent returns on players sold (not to mention having to pay to get 3 of our most expensive signings out of the club).

    We are agreed that Summer was a bust for us...but I'm not sure that the conclusion that this was down to a lack of ambition rather than an over-rigid policy that dictated we get the 'ideal' player rather than none at all.

    Like I say, January was for me more of the same - either we were able to land a player who fitted exactly the mould that the manager wanted (remember that all of our players under Arteta - including strikers - have to be monsters off the ball and defend from the front as well as being able to do their primary job - so it's a small pool we are looking at) - or we would leave it. If there is truth in the rumours about the Watkins negotiations, then it can definitely be argued that we went in too low, but conversely it could be pointed out that only a fool starts negotiations at the asking price - and the deal was ultimately scuppered by Duran going to Saudi which in fairness was not something the club (or anyone) would have expected. One man's lack of ambition here is another man's prudence - which is not the same thing.

    As for loans for Rashford and Ferguson - as I understand it we have filled our allocation for EPL loans, so this was not an option for Arsenal.

    I am disappointed (as Arteta says he is) that we didn't sign a striker in January, and the Summer was clearly a mis-step (negligence in the Summer - probably). But lack of ambition is a bit black and white thinking for me, and like me, I am sure that Arteta understands that there are many factors at play when it comes to deciding whether to stick to long term targets or risk spending resources on players who either don't lift the ceiling or could backfire (like a 29 year old striker), and affect the club for years. Also - so-called ambition (when framed purely in player purchases) does not necessarily translate into progress. Just ask Manure; Chelsea or Sp*rs fans...

    We are taking big risks, yes, but this does not mean that there is no desire for success at Arsenal - just that the club has elected to take this risk over the equal risk that a mistake could affect us in the longer term. Would I prefer a different balance of risk? Probably. But a cautious approach so far under Arteta can hardly be called a failure. Particularly in the context of how our last 3 seasons have compared to the opposition.
    Last edited by IBK; 05-02-2025 at 11:01 AM.
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  9. #719
    Member IBK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    Not having a go at you btw IBK, appreciate the post and I CAN see there is another side to the argument. It's just I don't find it convincing given the urgency of the present situation. It really annoys me to throw away this season for want of - what will we call it? - an admission we fucked up in the summer? Or, even simpler, a logical, reasonable, sensible response to an unfortunate injury situation.

    I see the whole thing as crazy. When you MUST do something and you do NOTHING, what are the predictions for your fortunes?
    No offence taken at all. It's a really interesting debate
    Putting the laughter back into manslaughter

  10. #720
    Member Mac76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBK View Post

    As for loans for Rashford and Ferguson - as I understand it we have filled our allocation for EPL loans, so this was not an option for Arsenal.
    Which needs to be highlighted as another big error, both Neto and Sterling were last-minute panic loans and famously Neto can't play for us in the LC so some of the games he might've taken off Raya were a no-go anyway

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