Match Reaction: Newcastle 0-1 Arsenal

[Letters]

I wasn't saying the opposite last season either so how have I moved the goalposts? We were never in the title race so while the run was very good we needed Chelsea to slip up massively to get us back in the race and they never did.

Not caring what Chelsea are doing is ridiculous. They and City are the 2 sides who finished above us last year so they are the teams we have to finish above this year.

You are the one moving the goalposts even within the same posts. We have no chance because of our stuttering start. Chelsea do have a chance though despite being below us.

As I said above, your argument is basically we can't win it because of Wenger so stop pretending our results have any bearing on it.

[Injury Time]

I wasn't saying the opposite last season either so how have I moved the goalposts? We were never in the title race so while the run was very good we needed Chelsea to slip up massively to get us back in the race and they never did.

Not caring what Chelsea are doing is ridiculous. They and City are the 2 sides who finished above us last year so they are the teams we have to finish above this year.

You are the one moving the goalposts even within the same posts. We have no chance because of our stuttering start. Chelsea do have a chance though despite being below us.

As I said above, your argument is basically we can't win it because of Wenger so stop pretending our results have any bearing on it.

I think we need to beat ALL the teams on points to win the title, so long ago I might have got that wrong.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's not unreasonable to think that Wenger can't win us the league but stop trying to dress the argument up as "we can't win it because or our bad performances so far" or because we haven't won every game like City have, that argument doesn't wash because if we're out of it already then so are Utd and Chelsea. If we stay in the hunt and are there or thereabouts with 10 games left then we have a chance IMO. The performances have been poor so far but we know they're capable of much better, right now it's all about results.

You are doing the dressing up mate. Nobody said that so you've helpfully put the words in their mouths. Just about everyone has explained the chav thing to you, but you can't or won't hear it. Your opening salvo about people complaining is another example of the way you shift your arguments to suit the moment, as noted above by PnG. If the results are no good then the performances show progress, if the performances stink then the results are what count. But the elephant you can't shove out of the room is the last decade where our performance levels have dropped and the "great" football we play has become nothing but a media myth, and the results have amounted to a pair of cup wins late in the day. Not that cup wins are insignificant, but what has it taken to obtain them? Measure the input against the output and any fool can see that Wenger has tragically underperformed. Not because he hasn't won a title, not because he hasn't won the CL, but because he hasn't come close. The excuses for this guy are all washed away. You want to talk about the performance level? Well he doesn't deliver performances, he delivers tippy, tappy, slow, congested bullshit. You want to talk about results? Well he doesn't deliver any in the big competitions. What else do you want to measure him by? Financial returns? Share price? The 4th place trophy? Fine, he's done well in that respect, and there's the issue. He;s done superbly well for the board, but what has he done for us lately? Like in the last 10 years? Ruined our football, sucked the entertainment out of our play and left us a laughing stock when the chips have been down. This is the truth - look at the record. He's been living on past glories for way too long, cemented in place by a board that loves the cash he generates and the fans that live in the hope of next season, next season, next season finally being the one. Ain't happening. How do we know? Well did you see the first 4 games this season? That's how we know.

[Letters]

I think we need to beat ALL the teams on points to win the title, so long ago I might have got that wrong.

We do, but beating most of the other teams is a given. Utd are the only other credible contenders IMO after their splurge in the summer and they're looking awlful right now too.

[Power n Glory]

I wasn't saying the opposite last season either so how have I moved the goalposts? We were never in the title race so while the run was very good we needed Chelsea to slip up massively to get us back in the race and they never did.

Not caring what Chelsea are doing is ridiculous. They and City are the 2 sides who finished above us last year so they are the teams we have to finish above this year.

You are the one moving the goalposts even within the same posts. We have no chance because of our stuttering start. Chelsea do have a chance though despite being below us.

As I said above, your argument is basically we can't win it because of Wenger so stop pretending our results have any bearing on it.

Uhhhh....so the title isn't decided in the last 10 games, right?

No, Letters. Winning the league means you have to be above everyone not just Chelsea and City. I'm not going to take solace in the fact that we're above Chelsea when they currently reside in 13th place. Their bad start doesn't excuse our bad start. We set out to do things differently this season.

Please show me where I say we have 'no chance of winning the league'? If you read my posts you'd see I said we need to sharpen up quickly. We need to find our best starting 11, approach games with some sort of tactical nous, keep our players fit and avoid all the crap that's stopped us from winning it over the past decade. So far we don't look like title contenders when the aim was to come out the blocks flying and showing our intent. Don't start making up an argument and read. The performances so far haven't been good enough and we need to find our form and momentum early.

[Letters]

How do we know? Well did you see the first 4 games this season? That's how we know.

No. No it isn't And you know it isn't. You accuse me of changing my argument (which isn't true, and I think you know that) but I at least believe my argument, I don't think you believe yours for a minute.

Our results so far don't show anything. And four convincing wins wouldn't show anything either. If it did then City are champions, Chelsea have no chance, let's all give up and go home and try again next year. You've been watching football long enough to know that over a long season things change as clubs have purple patches or poor runs.
We lost it last year in the first 12 games, we got it together after that but it was too late. This year we've got off to an indifferent start but so have the rest of the potential contenders, bar City. If we end up after 12 games 15 points behind as we did last year then yes, it's all over, Wenger Out, etc, etc. But it's 4 games in and we're in touch so stop all the hysteria.

[Power n Glory]

You are doing the dressing up mate. Nobody said that so you've helpfully put the words in their mouths. Just about everyone has explained the chav thing to you, but you can't or won't hear it. Your opening salvo about people complaining is another example of the way you shift your arguments to suit the moment, as noted above by PnG. If the results are no good then the performances show progress, if the performances stink then the results are what count. But the elephant you can't shove out of the room is the last decade where our performance levels have dropped and the "great" football we play has become nothing but a media myth, and the results have amounted to a pair of cup wins late in the day. Not that cup wins are insignificant, but what has it taken to obtain them? Measure the input against the output and any fool can see that Wenger has tragically underperformed. Not because he hasn't won a title, not because he hasn't won the CL, but because he hasn't come close. The excuses for this guy are all washed away. You want to talk about the performance level? Well he doesn't deliver performances, he delivers tippy, tappy, slow, congested bullshit. You want to talk about results? Well he doesn't deliver any in the big competitions. What else do you want to measure him by? Financial returns? Share price? The 4th place trophy? Fine, he's done well in that respect, and there's the issue. He;s done superbly well for the board, but what has he done for us lately? Like in the last 10 years? Ruined our football, sucked the entertainment out of our play and left us a laughing stock when the chips have been down. This is the truth - look at the record. He's been living on past glories for way too long, cemented in place by a board that loves the cash he generates and the fans that live in the hope of next season, next season, next season finally being the one. Ain't happening. How do we know? Well did you see the first 4 games this season? That's how we know.

Exactly.

[Letters]

Uhhhh....so the title isn't decided in the last 10 games, right?

It is, but you have to be in the race. Last year we weren't. I've said over and over you can't win the title in the first 10 games but you can lose it.
Last year, we did. This year, I don't know yet but after 4 games we're doing OK, results wise.

No, Letters. Winning the league means you have to be above everyone not just Chelsea and City.

Wow. You could be a pundit with that kind of insight.
Yes, obviously. But are you worried about Leicester being above us? Will they be there come May?
City and Chelsea are the sides who finished above us last year, they're the teams we should be most concerned about.

Please show me where I say we have 'no chance of winning the league'? If you read my posts you'd see I said we need to sharpen up quickly.

OK, if that's your position then I agree. But meanwhile we need to pub results and stay in touch.

[Özim]

Why are Chelsea contenders if we aren't? They're below us.
What do you mean, when it matters? It always matters but really you win the title in the last 10 games, not the first 10.
What we can't do is let anyone get too far ahead of us like we did last year. 5 points at this stage is nothing.
If we'd lost the first 4 games I'd be worried, so long as we're pubbing results and staying in touch that's fine for now.
Obviously I'd be happier if we'd won all 4 games convincingly but that wouldn't make us champions elect any more than our results and performances so far make us alsorans.

Your whole argument about whether we could challenge before the season started was based around the fact we matched them stride for stride last season (Chelsea) and just started badly, now we've done it again you're making excuses as to it not being that important and that's it's only once you get to 10 games that you'll find out whether we can challenge, that sounds like moving the goalposts to me.

We've shown time and time again we can't maintain a run for the entire season and that when it really matters we collapse, yes we can go on a run when we're 6th and in with no chance of the title but there's no expectations then.

We've started poorly and to me as I suspected are nowehere near good enough to be title contenders and Wenger once again has failed in the summer transfer window so far, with Wenger in charge we're always waiting for things to change when in reality they never do.

[Letters]

now we've done it again.

We haven't done it again.
It's 4 games in and only City have started significantly better. We need to stay in touch, clearly, but unless we fall too far behind it's nothing like last season.

that sounds like moving the goalposts to me

Well no, I've been talking about losing it in the first 10 games. This year it's only 4 games in so we're not comparing like for like.
If, after 10 games, we're miles behind the team at the top then yes, it's like last season. 4 games in and performances have been poor, results have been OKish.