The Liverpool Thread 2017/2018 featuring Jurgen Klopp

[Dennis Bendtner]

I'm sure the owners are committed to the club moving forward. They wouldn't have sanctioned the 2011 spending otherwise. It's the guys making decisions over where it goes that need to be accountable. I'm sure they see many of the good things - crap players off the wage bill (Cole, Konchesky and so on). But the bad ones are far too glaring. Adam is the equivalent of a mediocre yankee quarterback or whatever the fuck it is. The record signing is derided and barely starts any games. If they're into this moneyball stuff as much as we think, they must see Downing is the antithesis to undervalued.They would have to be an extremely generous bunch to sanction that for Kenny/Commolli again given the lack of genuine progress. Giving that to a new management team would be less risky.

At the moment it seems like Liverpool have struck lucky with the ownership. Henry - decent enuff bloke. Not sure where the stadium or debts are at. But you have to use their money better!

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

I'm sure the owners are committed to the club moving forward. They wouldn't have sanctioned the 2011 spending otherwise. It's the guys making decisions over where it goes that need to be accountable. I'm sure they see many of the good things - crap players off the wage bill (Cole, Konchesky and so on). But the bad ones are far too glaring. Adam is the equivalent of a mediocre yankee quarterback or whatever the fuck it is. The record signing is derided and barely starts any games. If they're into this moneyball stuff as much as we think, they must see Downing is the antithesis to undervalued.They would have to be an extremely generous bunch to sanction that for Kenny/Commolli again given the lack of genuine progress. Giving that to a new management team would be less risky.

At the moment it seems like Liverpool have struck lucky with the ownership. Henry - decent enuff bloke. Not sure where the stadium or debts are at. But you have to use their money better!

The debt, afaik, is just £30m in stadium debt - plans, permission that sort of thing. If we get Cole, Kuyt, Maxi, Aurelio and Aquilani fully off the wage bill then that's a hefty amount, a good £350k/w I'd say.

I won't lie and say I think Henry and Werner care about the club, but I think they understand sport and understand fan expectation. They haven't got carried away like the previous swindlers (spade in the ground within 60 days).

Adam was a shocker, no one really wanted him, Downing was OK for Villa last season so I can rationalise that even if he has been poor for us, Henderson was over priced but has potential if we give him time, I've lost any patience with Carroll but he's an asset for the books (the whole amortization thing can be fudged for that when we do sell him it isn't that bad for the books) and his wages aren't that of a £35m signing either.

Suarez is good. Bellamy was a good signing. Enrique on the whole has been good. Coates is a future player, and Doni hasn't had a look in because of Pepe.

We've spent ~£111m, and sold ~£78m, though obviously a huge chunk of that is Torres.

But yes we have to be more canny in the market than simply saying 'name your price'. Comolli is undoubtedly the fall guy though. The important thing though is to admit mistakes, which everybody makes, and move on. Right now though I wouldn't be averse to just throwing some of the youth in, Sterling, Coady, Morgan et al because they can't do any worse than some of the first team.

[Cripps_orig]

Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish is deluding himself, he is deluding his players and he is deluding the club’s supporters as well.
The Reds' boss insisted that no one should be passing judgement on his team and their Champions League credentials until the end of the Premier League campaign following the 1-0 defeat at Sunderland.

But the 2,400 supporters who made the trip from Merseyside to Wearside will have found it impossible not to come to the conclusion that Liverpool are going backwards, despite major investment in new players, because his team was just not good enough.

SLOW PROGRESS


AFTER 27 GAMES 2010-11
Pos P W D L F A PTS
6th 27 11 6 10 35 32 39

AFTER 27 GAMES 2011-12
Pos P W D L F A PTS
7th 27 10 9 8 30 26 39

The fact that 5ft 6in midfielder Jay Spearing was head and shoulders above his expensively recruited colleagues in the lacklustre show against Martin O’Neill’s workmanlike Sunderland was a terrible indictment of Dalglish’s recruitment campaign.

Academy product Spearing outshone the likes of the below-par Charlie Adam, who cost £12 million when he moved from Blackpool, and Jordan Henderson, for whose services and potential Sunderland were paid £19m last summer.

They were outmanoeuvred by the unheralded Jack Colback and Craig Gardner at Sunderland and it was only when skipper Steven Gerrard rose from the substitutes’ bench that the League Cup winners really got going.

But by the time Gerrard entered the fray the damage was already done. Liverpool were behind to a strange goal that saw the ball hit the post, hit Pepe Reina’s head and then hit a post again before Nicklas Bendtner finished from close range while the woeful Sebastian Coates was left flat-footed.

It was reminiscent of the beach-ball goal on the same ground in October 2009 when Rafa Benitez was in charge of Liverpool, and again exposed the shortcomings of those wearing red shirts who were responsible for the club suffering three consecutive league defeats for the first time since the 2002-03 season.

Their meek efforts vindicated the bullishness of Sunderland owner Ellis Short who used his programme notes to tell fans that “this is by far the most confident I’ve felt” ahead of a home game against Liverpool - and that was despite his team being without their two best players in Lee Cattermole and Stephane Sessegnon, both suspended.

Despite the overwhelming evidence, Dalglish might not be prepared to call a halt to the quest for a top-four place that would yield a Champions League adventure, but the chances of Liverpool returning to Europe’s top table are negligible.

Seventh-placed Liverpool are ten points behind fourth-placed Arsenal, two points above Sunderland and – most tellingly – are eight points closer to bottom-of-the-table Wigan Athletic than they are to pacesetters Manchester City.

Yes there are lies, damned lies and statistics but those statistics are pretty damning because a season that promised much with ‘King Kenny’ at the helm has seen the club fall further behind the Premier League’s leading lights.

Dalglish signed a three-year contract last May after he succeeded Roy Hodgson in January 2011 but it looks as though it will take a lot longer for Liverpool to mount a sustained challenge for their first Premier League title. It is hard to see the Reds closing the gap on the Premier League's genuine title contenders.

And – despite the club’s rich heritage - the longer Liverpool remain out of Champions League football the harder it will become to entice stellar players such as Sergio Aguero and Juan Mata to Anfield.

It also means the longer the club's fans will have to put up with the likes of Henderson, Adam, Stewart Downing and Andy Carroll – players who may be decent Premier League players but are not top-notch operators.

And the absence of Champions League football must raise question-marks over Luis Suarez’s future and his loyalty to Liverpool because the Uruguayan is a player who should be rubbing shoulders with the best players in Europe.

Okay, Suarez has a League Cup winner’s medal; but he will be frustrated at the lack of a progress at a club whose points tally – 39 from 27 matches – is exactly the same now as it was at this stage last season.

Liverpool finished sixth last season but are now in danger of slipping further behind the leading Premier League clubs as the gap widens, even though some £120m has been spent on new players since Dalglish returned to the manager’s office at Anfield, while £60m has been recouped in sales.

The League Cup win and their on-going interest in the FA Cup will placate the critics for the time being and buy Dalglish time, but the fans who yearn for a return to the Champions League nights that make Anfield so special could be in for a very long wait.

That is an inescapable truth. And no one needs to wait until the end of the season to see that.

In an interview with the Sunderland match-day programme, Reds defender Martin Skrtel was optimistic. “We have won the League Cup, we are still in the FA Cup and we are close to the top four,” he said.

“Our targets are still reachable. It’s up to us to qualify for the Champions League. When you look at our games with the teams that are in those positions at the moment I don’t think they are that much better than us. We’ve had close games with City, United and Spurs and we beat Chelsea. I believe we can get there.”

As much as they would like to believe the Slovakian defender is right, most Liverpool fans will beg to differ.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/...to-challenging

[Syn]

I think Liverpool have been rubbish in the past year - on and off the pitch. That's the only way I can describe it. I disagree with DSL, I don't think they've got good foundations in place. I think they had the opportunity to build a good foundation but they pissed away £80m on absolute shit. There is a lot of immaturity from the club - from their behaviour right down to the tactics. They don't know what qualities to value. I'm all for having some scotty parkers in the squad but Liverpool are taking the piss. There is no invention or creativity because the team is filled with brainless players. The whole philosophy and attitude of the club is out-dated. I don't see much improving any time soon. If the owners give kenny another £80m, he'll put in a £25m bid for
Walcott.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Adam was £6m, £9m at the very most.

That's still £6m too much, but nowhere near £12m

The £120m bought and £60m sold are way out too.

[Dennis Bendtner]

I think Liverpool have been rubbish in the past year - on and off the pitch. That's the only way I can describe it. I disagree with DSL, I don't think they've got good foundations in place. I think they had the opportunity to build a good foundation but they pissed away £80m on absolute shit. There is a lot of immaturity from the club - from their behaviour right down to the tactics. They don't know what qualities to value. I'm all for having some scotty parkers in the squad but Liverpool are taking the piss. There is no invention or creativity because the team is filled with brainless players. The whole philosophy and attitude of the club is out-dated. I don't see much improving any time soon. If the owners give kenny another £80m, he'll put in a £25m bid for
Walcott.

Reina, the centre-backs, Enrique (well, the whole back four really), Lucas and Suarez isn't bad. But much of that was there before. That's what I meant by the foundations, but true enough, they aren't that deep. The £70 odd million pissed away is a real problem, but those 'foundations' are still there.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

I think Liverpool have been rubbish in the past year - on and off the pitch. That's the only way I can describe it. I disagree with DSL, I don't think they've got good foundations in place. I think they had the opportunity to build a good foundation but they pissed away £80m on absolute shit. There is a lot of immaturity from the club - from their behaviour right down to the tactics. They don't know what qualities to value. I'm all for having some scotty parkers in the squad but Liverpool are taking the piss. There is no invention or creativity because the team is filled with brainless players. The whole philosophy and attitude of the club is out-dated. I don't see much improving any time soon. If the owners give kenny another £80m, he'll put in a £25m bid for
Walcott.

Dennis Bendtner is DSL/JtL19?

[Dennis Bendtner]

[Syn]

Reina, the centre-backs, Enrique (well, the whole back four really), Lucas and Suarez isn't bad. But much of that was there before. That's what I meant by the foundations, but true enough, they aren't that deep. The £70 odd million pissed away is a real problem, but those 'foundations' are still there.

When linked with Arsenal a few seasons ago, Hangeland said that he was well aware he would be given more protection at Fulham than at Arsenal. If Liverpool tried to score*more than 30 goals in 27 games*-- and yes, they have been unlucky at times, but over the course of 27 games a stat that has them scoring only 5 more goals than Van Persie speaks for itself -- they'd concede a lot more than they are now. They've got a good core in the same sense Stoke have.*

[Syn]

Dennis Bendtner is DSL/JtL19?

Yup.