Anyone happy to finish outside top 4, if it brings about real change?

[Özim]

How is he kidding himself just because you don't have faith in the club don't mean anyone else does not. no one knows what will happen in the summer unless you have a crystal ball.

So what the past have been the same no way to know if this will or not.

I like to look at patterns that might exist, in this case 6 years of the same cr*p, that's enough to convince me nothing will change. It's the same every year to be honest, people thinking this and that has finally changed, when has it actually happened?

A Leopard doesn't change it's spots, especially if they've been superglued on.

[Özim]

You may be right. I've seen a few signs recently which give me hope and I'm not going to over-react to one poor result, every team gets those from time to time. If we go on our 3rd poor run of the season then it will be fatal to our chances of a top 4 finish and show that the recent excellent run has been yet another false dawn. If we finish strongly, get a top 4 finish, sign Podolski nice and early, get RvP signed up and do some more decent business in the transfer market then maybe things will change for the better.

We'll see.

Do you know how many games we've lost in the league so far?

9 in all, that's not a good record, despite a few decent games recently, we've also had some mighty embarrassing results this season. The end of season runs we sometimes put together when we're out of competitions don't really convince me, we've done it before and all it's led to is Wenger harping on about them and using them as a reason to change very little. Effectively in Wenger's head everything before February has been erased, it's happened before.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I like to look at patterns that might exist, in this case 6 years of the same cr*p, that's enough to convince me nothing will change. It's the same every year to be honest, people thinking this and that has finally changed, when has it actually happened?

A Leopard doesn't change it's spots, especially if they've been superglued on.

Thats up to you and if you feel that way thats your business but don't make the rest of the fans fools or mean they have to be kidding themselves because they want to believe in thier team.

You can't change the past but you can the future. A new season for me is a new start and i will get behind the team in august instead of slagging them off at every opprotunity or wait for them to loose so i can gloat.

What happend in the past is the past none os us can change it but the club can change the way the club is run in the future.

Not saying mega changes will be made but i can always hope they will and have that belief they will.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I know the manager and the board view 4th place as the holy grail of football, the be all and end all when it comes to sporting achievement. However, for the fans, this sort of narrow financial determinism is depressing, and I know many people who have said they'd prefer to drop out of the top 4, if it meant having to rebuild from bottom up, as it may lead to a loss of many established players (who have failed to step up to the plate over the last 5 years), the manager leaving and perhaps even change in the boardroom, especially if Stan feels a club without the Champions League revenues is not worth "investing" in. I think this is the only way we'll succeed in the long run tbh.

However, there are others who think that such an upheaval will see us languish in mid-table for a long time, and that continuity is the way forward, and that once FIFA's financial fair play regulations are put in place, it will create a level playing field allowing our "prudent" business style to reap dividends.

What do you think?

Finishing outside the top 4 will not bring any change it makes not diffrence. PHW has said even if we finish 5th we'd be ok, Wenger won't be sacked so nothing will change that much.

We get out the top 4 now we have big trouble getting back into it.

[LDG]

Do you know how many games we've lost in the league so far?

9 in all, that's not a good record, despite a few decent games recently, we've also had some mighty embarrassing results this season. The end of season runs we sometimes put together when we're out of competitions don't really convince me, we've done it before and all it's led to is Wenger harping on about them and using them as a reason to change very little. Effectively in Wenger's head everything before February has been erased, it's happened before.

I think that's a bit unfair even from you. I don't think AW has forgotten those defeats at all. In fact, you listen to him after the game on Saturday, you'll know he said it wasn't good enough, and that we can't be complacent.

I don't think anyone is under any illusion that things need changing at the club, but as things clearly did change after the defeats to Milan and Sunderland, there is room for a little optimism that we might actually be trying to lay to waste the problems we've had for some time now.

We've all been over the old ground of collapses etc Espcially the last few years, where we really should have been winning something. I don't think it was the quality of the players we had, but very much about the same mistakes, the mentality and the poor attitude.

That's why most fans were up in arms with Wenger, me included, to sort it out.

Whilst I don't think we have the quality we did (hence the 9 defeats), I do see a better attitude...and for now, I'm happy to see a team playing to win, playing for the shirt, and battling. We just need to supliment that attitude with some quality in the summer.

It doesn't excuse Saturday, but I don't hold the opinion that we should win every single game until the end of the season....as it just ain't EVER gonna happen. For anyone....

[Cripps_orig]

I dont want us to finish out of the top 4 in that i dont want us to lose or drop points in any way.

However if we did finish 5th or more likely 6th then would i be as upset about it as i would have been before Wenger turned shite? Probably not.

If its for the greater good then so be it

[Niall_Quinn]

This whole pro-wenger or pessimist thing is just +1 fodder for the faceless WUMs that we really are.

In real life if I'm talking to someone about Arsenal and they hold a different view to me, I don't bait them or try and mock their opinion. On here we're all guilty of poking fun at each other in an effort to, err, I dunno, win the internet?

When we do well Letters people feel the need to open their match reaction posts laughing at those who doubted the team. When we fuck up Zim people come out of the woodwork and try to say I told you so.

I told everyone you'd write a post like that!

[Niall_Quinn]

Who voted in this shitty poll? Own up!

[fakeyank]

IF it means that Arsene Wenger will be moved on or we have major changes in the footballing aspects of the game, I am all for us dropping out of the top 4. I am sick of us making the 2nd round, QF's of CL's knowing that unless we get the greatest draw in CL, we will be defeated the moment we face a half decent team.

However it is highly unlikely or should I say impossible that AW will be sacked or that he will walk, so I say that I want us in the top 4.

[Niall_Quinn]

IF it means that Arsene Wenger will be moved on or we have major changes in the footballing aspects of the game, I am all for us dropping out of the top 4. I am sick of us making the 2nd round, QF's of CL's knowing that unless we get the greatest draw in CL, we will be defeated the moment we face a half decent team.

However it is highly unlikely or should I say impossible that AW will be sacked or that he will walk, so I say that I want us in the top 4.

The spuds want us to lose and drop out of the top 4 too. Which is funny because they'll be the ones dropping out.