Cesc

[fakeyank]

Really? ManYoo, City, Chelsea, Barca and Real all have far bigger resources. That's just off the top of my head. We're always up there in the 'rich list' of clubs but that's misleading. City aren't up there at all on that list but you know as well as I that we can't compete with them in the transfer market. None of the above have new stadia to pay off and some of the above are bankrolled in ways we're not and I hope we never are.

We're 3rd. The only teams ahead of us are Utd who we pretty much all acknowledge (through gritted teeth) have the best manager around and City who have spent their way there. We've above all the other sides plenty of whom have spent a lot more than us in an attempt to dislodge us and failed repeatedly. If Wenger is incompetent then what does that say about their managers? Do you actually think it's easy to finish top 4 every single season for as long as Wenger has? Fergie is the only other manager who has done it in England. That tells you something.

I'm happy with being top 3 in England in the sense that it's a lot better than we've been for most of Arsenal's history. I was looking back, from the 50's to the 80's we won 7 trophies. 7. In 40 years. And some of those were a long way apart, we won nothing at all in the 60s, for example. Some people on here have the idea that Arsenal have always been a successful club and won lots of trophies, historically that isn't so. Where I'm less happy is that given that we are at that level we should be winning trophies and that is where we have failed. Wenger has failed. I've explained at length elsewhere why I'm a bit more optimistic about this current lot so we'll see. Let's face it Wenger is going nowhere so you might as well get behind him and he deserves respect for exactly the same reason you say Cesc does - he's giving his best for the club (even if you think that best isn't good enough) and if he is being too restrained in the transfer market I genuinely believe that is at least in part because he's looking longer term. Maybe in part it's because of his principles and doing things the 'right way' which I in some ways admire but also think he needs to be a little more pragmatic. I don't for one minute think he's doing it just to line his own pockets though.

What is this resources that thing you talk about? Utd and Barca pretty much have the same resources as us! Utd have an owner who is openly raping them but they have a manager who stands up and says "I am a football manager and I am here to win football games". Barca is broke but they spend when they see quality! AW does not even spend the money we make off of transfers!

As for Utd having the best manager. Of course they do! What I fail to understand is how AW has fallen behind SAF. AW was just as good as him till 06. Not only is he coming 2nd best, he is consistently coming 4th best these days!! To me, its clear... SAF realized football has changed and he needs to adapt accordingly. Wenger has failed and not adapted.. he still has no Plan B in matches, still has no defensive stability. The only thing AW has got better at over the last 6 years is the ability to talk absolute gob about team spirit and mental strength.

I don't for one minute think he's doing it just to line his own pockets though.

I think he is busy lining his pockets and that is why I despise him as an Arsenal manager. Its very simple to me..

- Either the board is denying him funds and meddling with football matters and not letting him sign players. In this case he should resign just like how any other top football manager would. A winner like him should not work with so much constraints
- Or the board has given him decent funds and freedom over football matters. In this case, he should be hung to dry for the way he has dismantled the team and brought us to a level where we are 20 points behind Utd!

I am very confident that the later is true and for that, I do not want him as my manager nor do I think he is any good. Its the battered wife syndrome (said by a great poster on GW). He pushes us into a well (beginning of every season) and then picks us up and then he is the great manager who with his limited budget and constraints has got Arsenal to the top 4! Bollocks!

[Joker]

But just look at how Newcastle are pushing for a top 3 position, despite spending much less than teams like Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and ourselves. There are high quality players available on the market, Pardew has proven that which is why they're doing so well in the league. You'll say, but they're still not challenging against Citeh or United, but the gulf in terms of financial muscle between Newcastle and ourselves is surely comparable to the gulf between ourselves and Man Utd/City. And yet they're hot on our heels.

Moreover, even if we accept the argument that the league is unattainable, why have our performances in the cups been so poor? Teams like Everton, Spurs have reached the finals of major cup competitions, and yet we seem to disrespect them, because it's all about coming 4th.

[LDG]

You forgot to say 'bumbling idiot'

[LDG]

Well not really. I think it's valid to compare yourself to the best and aspire to be the best. We should be doing that. But we should also be realistic. You said above that we have the resources to be one of the top 3 in world football. How so? ManYoo, Chelsea and City can all massively out-spend us. One is a bigger club, the other two are bankrolled. And that's just in this country. The two Spanish teams have bigger resources too.

Sadly these days there is a correlation between money and success. I do think things were mis-managed last summer which left us struggling this year. Wenger is to blame in part (I don't believe entirely) for that but he deserves some credit for us being in 3rd rather than in mid-table right now as we all feared. I don't think we should be too disgraced about being below the sides above us for obvious reasons, I do think we should be closer to them though given our resources.

Hmmm. We'll see.

[Kano]

Cesc is insignifi****.

i lolled

[Syn]

Sepp

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You forgot to say 'bumbling idiot'

[fakeyank]

Yes we have the resources but City and UTD have better Recources then us do they not. Of course AW should use the resourse he has to the maxium to help the team succeed.

Of course the club should aim higher even if the fans are happy with 3rd.

I was talking about this season not the last 7 so i apologise if i mistook what you said. But with sqaud we had this season id have to say 3rd would be good for us (this season).

If We spend big in the summer then no way would i accept 3rd as the maxuim we should achieve.

Correction. Utd does not have great resources. Look at their net spend over the last 10 years or so and you will see they have barely spent a lot.

The part in bold... AW has got us into this position. He left the squad to the bare bones, then got us into 3rd place mostly because of RVP, Allah's blessings and the failure of Spurs and Chelsea YET we look at this season and say it was a good season. No, it wasnt a good season! We just had another season.. you could copy and paste any of the last 6 seasons and it would look eerily similar!

[Olivier's xmas twist]

But just look at how Newcastle are pushing for a top 3 position, despite spending much less than teams like Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and ourselves. There are high quality players available on the market, Pardew has proven that which is why they're doing so well in the league. You'll say, but they're still not challenging against Citeh or United, but the gulf in terms of financial muscle between Newcastle and ourselves is surely comparable to the gulf between ourselves and Man Utd/City. And yet they're hot on our heels.

Moreover, even if we accept the argument that the league is unattainable, why have our performances in the cups been so poor? Teams like Everton, Spurs have reached the finals of major cup competitions, and yet we seem to disrespect them, because it's all about coming 4th.

That is true and they are having a good seasons but when they do it for the next 5 then they will be taken seriously. Newcastle have overachieved and its worked for them.

I mean Ba a striker that any of the top 4 clubs want, but at the time none of them wanted him, and had we got him at that time, he'd have been called a pub teamer and a rubbish signing.

Cisse has been good for them but another 1 who has no been playng under pressure like most of their sqaud and add to the face the usual top 6 has not been the greatest this year.

Had Newcastle go one and won the league then you'd have a good point though.

[Kano]

Correction. Utd does not have great resources. Look at their net spend over the last 10 years or so and you will see they have barely spent a lot.

they spent 130 million more than us in that time