Yep its silly to compare us to the Mancs it don't make a bit of sense comparing us with a club better then us and like you say has that fear factor etc.Originally Posted by Grebbo
Yep its silly to compare us to the Mancs it don't make a bit of sense comparing us with a club better then us and like you say has that fear factor etc.
Good point. It's definitely true that to beat Man Utd to the league you can't just be a little bit better than them - you have to be a lot better than them. That's not crazy paranoia shit, it's the truth. It seems Man City are indeed a lot better.
He won the league last year and the team hasn't changed that much. Last year's squad was weaker than the he has now. But regardless of that, it's bloody embarrssing that we lose a Carling Cup final against Birmingham City. Talk about funds and budgets go out the window when you look at that fact. Also, we consistently lose to teams like that in the league. Our recent barren run shows that. We've gone beyond the point of transfer funds and budgets. This is bad management.
I think that what Wenger says and what Wenger means deep down are two entirely different things. He aims to win the league every single season. He aims to win the Champions League at the beginning of every season. The contempt he's shown in the recent past for the two domestic cups through team selection would suggest he's not after those trophies so much. This is why, when he says 3rd is 'like a trophy', I don't read too much into it. He doesn't have a poker face. You can tell he's disappointed for having gone through a trophyless campaign. Furthermore, coming back to the age-old argument, would we take a Carling Cup success over Champions League qualification? Speak to any Liverpool fan this month. They certainly wouldn't. However, I do agree with Arsenal fans when they say such successes shouldn't be mutually exclusive.
Back to the question about a top-bracket manager going so many years without a trophy- I can only think of Fabio Capello, but I'm not entirely sure if he was manager at Real Madrid when they won La Liga back in 2007
Formerly TMOKJ
Spot on tbh people read too much into that Top 4 being a trophy crap, yes he says it but i doubt he means it, i just think he says it so his young players confidence is protected.
If this was a man who did not care about trophy's then why after we lost to barca the last 2 times did he look so defeatist.
Why when we loose big games does he sulk so much.
Aw needs to be less Stubbon and treat these kids like grown men then they be better off for it.
Wenger would win a lot more stuff, even with this crap team if only he could get his midfield to track back when a counterattack is going on. I mean this level of professionalism should not require a top bracket manager to instil, even shit teams managed by a walrus like Aston Villa do it FFS
The first paragraph isn't fair. When we're failing you can see how much it hurts him. He clearly wants us to still succeed. He may have lost the ability to succeed but not the ambition. As for the 2nd paragraph, the first half of his time with us was the most successful in our modern history. 2 doubles, an unbeaten league season and, arguably as important, all done with a style of football the like of which I'd never seen Arsenal play. The later trophies under Graham were impressive in that they were won with a pretty mediocre side but the boring football was awful to watch and the league form was pathetic. If you just care about the end result of a season, not too bad. If you follow the journey it was 8 months of dirge followed by a decent end. The 2nd half of Wenger's time with us has been disappointing but he's kept us in the top few year after year despite the rise of billionaire owners and other sides spending big to try and displace us. And all done against the backdrop of a complex stadium move which has restricted spending and awful commercial deals which have restricted income for a club of our stature (although he could and should have spent more). Against this backdrop I think he's done well to keep us in the top few. Having done so though, the failure to win any trophies is damning and no manager at a comparable club would have kept his job for this long. The football has been less good (although still loads better than the dirge in the latter Graham years) but overall to say his record is 'not that great' is simplistic revisionism IMO.
So he looks defeated, so what? If he really cared he'd try and do something about it, the actions on the sidelines are just frustration at the time, if he it killed him that much he'd be out there every summer breaking his back to get better players in and dealing with the problem areas just like all the top managers.
IMO he'd like to win but is satisfied with 4th and no trophies, a manager who isn't doesn't do the things he does, they do everything in their power to win.
I liken it to a compulsive liar who believes what he says, Wenger is animated on the touchlines and believes he is desperate to win but the reality is that winning isn't as important as it should be to him.
Last edited by Özim; 07-05-2012 at 12:37 PM.
As mentioned above, it might hurt him at the time, but he soon seems to forget...how else can you explain what he does in the transfer market and how stubborn he is after years of failure?
The first part of his spell was great that's true, but look at his overally record, I wouldn't say it's that fantastic, you can't ignore 7 years without a trophy. In the Graham days firstly we were banned from Europe and then we only had one CL place until later on, the motivation to comes 4th wasn't there in terms of getting a place in the CL. I'd also say it depends whether you think 4th place is an achievement, personally I don't, we get into the CL as 4th place team which is a joke in itself let's face it, the reward for 4th should be the Europa league not Europe's premier competition.
The money aspect is relevant of course but his signings haven't been good, he's consistently gone for cheap nobodies who mostly have in the end disappointed, if you have genuine aspirations on winning you need top players, we've had some in the past but due to our lack of competitiveness (trophy wise) and unwillingness to invest we've lost them.
If he diid not care he would not look defeated simple he just give 1 or 2 excues ans be done with it.
I not convinced he is happy with 4th just because he says it means nothing.
He has never said it when we were in comps only when e get knocked out of them or look like we may go out.
maybe he needs more motivation for winning but i still say his ambtion to win is there.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote