Should we just accept our lot as a club?

[IBK]

This is not intended to be a thread about ambition. Every club and every manager should have an ambition to win the league. Whether they have the ability to do so is another matter.

There's plenty of debate about AW's pros and cons as a manager. My current view is that with no trophies fans could find fault in whatver manager we had. IMO the only manager who could pretty much guarantee a trophy with our squad is SAF. And he's a one off.

But most of the critcism of our players and manager seems to be based on the assumption that we should be winning the league, not also rans. I wonder whether its time to accept that our star has faded and that on the pure hard facts we will simply be making up the numbers for the foreseeable future.

Very few clubs stay on top forever. Who would have thought that Chelsea would be dethroned so quickly by an even richer owner. Liverpool looked like they were coming back under Benitez. Look how that ended. Blackburn are the first relegated premiership title holders. Villa, Newcastle, Leeds - all examples of clubs who had their time and gradually faded into obscurity. Manure have been on top for years - but are the biggest club in the world, with the best manager the country has seen. It may well be that even they have wilderness years once SAF retires.

We took a step up when Wenger arrived. Few would argue that Chelsea and City have been the main obstacles to our battle with Manure over the past few seasons.

Citeh have shown more clearly than ever before that money = titles. We are not paupers but only a fool would argue that we can compete with Citeh and Chelsea financially. In this changing climate does it not show welcome consistency to finish top 3 or 4 every year while balancing the books (and before anyone rages against our 'ambition' being solely to make money - this is not the point I am making. It is a fact that we have managed CL football every year while being the best example of a financially well run club that there is).

We are a still a destination club for good, if not the very best players. For the very best players we are a stepping stone, but can at least enjoy their services while they are young. We win far more games than we lose and are on TV every other week.

Is it time to accept what we have, and that we are not going to be title winners in this current cycle? And would it cause less angst to do so?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

This is not intended to be a thread about ambition. Every club and every manager should have an ambition to win the league. Whether they have the ability to do so is another matter.

There's plenty of debate about AW's pros and cons as a manager. My current view is that with no trophies fans could find fault in whatver manager we had. IMO the only manager who could pretty much guarantee a trophy with our squad is SAF. And he's a one off.

But most of the critcism of our players and manager seems to be based on the assumption that we should be winning the league, not also rans. I wonder whether its time to accept that our star has faded and that on the pure hard facts we will simply be making up the numbers for the foreseeable future.

Very few clubs stay on top forever. Who would have thought that Chelsea would be dethroned so quickly by an even richer owner. Liverpool looked like they were coming back under Benitez. Look how that ended. Blackburn are the first relegated premiership title holders. Villa, Newcastle, Leeds - all examples of clubs who had their time and gradually faded into obscurity. Manure have been on top for years - but are the biggest club in the world, with the best manager the country has seen. It may well be that even they have wilderness years once SAF retires.

We took a step up when Wenger arrived. Few would argue that Chelsea and City have been the main obstacles to our battle with Manure over the past few seasons.

Citeh have shown more clearly than ever before that money = titles. We are not paupers but only a fool would argue that we can compete with Citeh and Chelsea financially. In this changing climate does it not show welcome consistency to finish top 3 or 4 every year while balancing the books (and before anyone rages against our 'ambition' being solely to make money - this is not the point I am making. It is a fact that we have managed CL football every year while being the best example of a financially well run club that there is).

We are a still a destination club for good, if not the very best players. For the very best players we are a stepping stone, but can at least enjoy their services while they are young. We win far more games than we lose and are on TV every other week.

Is it time to accept what we have, and that we are not going to be title winners in this current cycle? And would it cause less angst to do so?

Yes, But we should still hope to win a trophy even if it is every few seasons.

[IBK]

Yes, But we should still hope to win a trophy even if it is every few seasons.

Problem is that non league trophies are a lottery. Yes you can aim to win them, but we are most likely still to come up against the top teams - and frankly you could often toss a coin to decide who goes through. Look at the CC and FA Cup finals this year for example. We haven't had the rub of the green in some cases - look at the CL final and the CC final for evidence - and we have been the authors of our misfortune in others. But I would say that realistically, in most cup comps all you can 'expect' is to be in the later stages. Winning is a fortuitous bonus.

[Kano]

too much emphasis is placed on the league, making this a very black and white argument.

If we aimed for some cups, then that is an acceptable middle ground that would appease most people.

If we accept we can’t win the league and any cups, then it really is time to close the doors.

stoke we ain’t.

[IBK]

too much emphasis is placed on the league, making this a very black and white argument.

If we aimed for some cups, then that is an acceptable middle ground that would appease most people.

If we accept we can’t win the league and any cups, then it really is time to close the doors.

stoke we ain’t.

Don't we aim for the cups every year?

[Kano]

Don't we aim for the cups every year?

i don't think we do - wenger doesn't seem to care much for them at all.

it's prem, cl or nothing.

we've been in too many semi or final failures to group them all together as bad luck.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Problem is that non league trophies are a lottery. Yes you can aim to win them, but we are most likely still to come up against the top teams - and frankly you could often toss a coin to decide who goes through. Look at the CC and FA Cup finals this year for example. We haven't had the rub of the green in some cases - look at the CL final and the CC final for evidence - and we have been the authors of our misfortune in others. But I would say that realistically, in most cup comps all you can 'expect' is to be in the later stages. Winning is a fortuitous bonus.

Fair enough.

I don't think no one on here will tell us they were upset because we never won the league in the last 7 years its more to do with not winning the things we should.

This is where AW and the board get it wrong or have. I know winning a cup is not easy because its who you draw etc and the luck you get but i think we should be given the best chance we have to win the cups.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

too much emphasis is placed on the league, making this a very black and white argument.

If we aimed for some cups, then that is an acceptable middle ground that would appease most people.

If we accept we can’t win the league and any cups, then it really is time to close the doors.

stoke we ain’t.

I'd hope the played believed they could win the league regardless what the fans think. and id like to think they show that spirit the invincible's had.

But i think We need that winning mentality before we worry about winning the league. The club not just the manager but everyone in it needs to show ambition and aim higher or get left behind.

[Flavs]

3rd is our target people should just accept that

[LDG]

I don't think we should accept it, no.

Our star will shine again.