Clichy has left. And Nasri in talks with Citeh.

[Darth Vela]

Well I would hope, that if we are buying some prem experience; Baines/Cahill?? then they will bed in quite quick, regardless of when they are signed.

It's the ones like Gervinho who will take the time to settle in.

But having said that, I am expecting a hell of a lot more from some other players we already have. I'll get shouted down for this, but I think Chamahk will be a lot better this season. I think if Arshavin can get fit and find what he is capable of consistently, he'll be awesome.

Walcott...I'd like to think we'll see more from him.

Sometimes we let our focus sway from other matters. And for me, the main concern, and has been for a while now, is getting the team organised, regardless of signings.

Yes we need to spend big, moreso if we loose the big players being touted about....but lets not forget we have a lot of talent at the club, all of whom are capable of stepping up a gear. Song, Vermaelen, Walcott, Arshavin, Tampahx....there's plenty there who didn't perform to their ability in the last half of the season. We should expect 50% of our problems to be righted with our current players.

True, any PL players will need less time to adapt and as they're hopefully a big part of our outlay I guess we can wait a little longer.

Couldn't agree more about the level of talent we have but there is a balance issue between types of player imo, along with the disparity in age/experience/giving a fuck we have in there. There's something up with the squad that goes beyond organisation, I think, but regardless I agree we should expect more from some of our players next year, whether we get it

[Coney]

Wenger doesn't have the intelligence to change, and he's not going to sign any star players (which is what is needed) this summer. Don't expect us to challenge for the title until he leaves.

I suggest that Wenger/Dein proposed the project a few years back and the board backed the idea. OK, so now it is clear that despite tweeks that have been made, the project has not worked and it is time to call it a day. Wenger seems to have acknowledged that from his comments, Gazidis practically said it in so many words at the supporters club meeting and unless he has taken to overriding or contradicting Wenger in public, that is the thinking by the board and manager. Combined with Kroenke coming on board who surely knows that to maximise the Arsenal Company Limited's funds, profits and dividends, they need the supporters here to be right behind them and that means winning trophies, something they must also do to get the publicity to sell shirts and stuff in the Far East.

Note that Wenger has always been against doing a Far East Tour. What are we about to do? A Far East Tour. Clearly Wenger can take change on board.

[Champagne Charlie]

I'm really starting to worry about the current situation. Personally, I don't think loosing Clichy, Nasri and possibly Cesc as individuals is that much of an issue, they're all replaceable. But loosing all three at once is a major concern!

We really need to strengthen this summer, but if these three go (plus squad players like Denilson, Diaby, etc) then we need to replace first before we can strenghten, and football transfers really aren't as simple as going out and buying 6 'world class' players within a couple of weeks!

People often mention that buying quality players helps convince others to stay, but it works the other way round as well. If our own club captain, one of our players of the season last year and one of the longest serving members of the team all want out then what hope have we got of tempting other top quality players to sign!?

[LDG]

I'm really starting to worry about the current situation. Personally, I don't think loosing Clichy, Nasri and possibly Cesc as individuals is that much of an issue, they're all replaceable. But loosing all three at once is a major concern!

We really need to strengthen this summer, but if these three go (plus squad players like Denilson, Diaby, etc) then we need to replace first before we can strenghten, and football transfers really aren't as simple as going out and buying 6 'world class' players within a couple of weeks!

People often mention that buying quality players helps convince others to stay, but it works the other way round as well. If our own club captain, one of our players of the season last year and one of the longest serving members of the team all want out then what hope have we got of tempting other top quality players to sign!?

Worrying times indeed. We really are on the edge here, and a lot needs to happen to convince our, so far (and commendably so) patient fanbase, that we are moving in the right direction. Ruthless, determined and competetive.

Anything less, and the club risks losing one hell of a lot. At it will hit them where it most hurts.

Wenger is not an idiot. Nor are the people running our club. We do have, to a certain extent, trust that all the frustrations we see and talk about, are now on the shoulders of our manager, and those powers that be. And that there is now real pressure to take this club forward and with ruthless determination.

However, don't underestimate the attraction of Arsenal to players, with or without our top names. don't forget that we have seen big names leave in the past, only to be replaced by players such as Fabregas, and Nasri....now wanted by the biggest and welathiest clubs in the world.

If playing for Arsenal, in our big shiney stadium, in the champs league, with a manager who is not as stupid as people think is not incentive enough....then surely seeing unknowns develop and be sought after by money machines is....

[selassie]

when cole left, no one cried as we all thought clichy was a good enough replacement. when hleb left, we got in nasri. no reason to think he wont do the same again, unless you let a warped perception ruin perspective

But he wasn't a good enough replacement for Cole was he? Therein lies the problem.

Arsene never ever adequately replaces players immediately.

[LDG]

But he wasn't a good enough replacement for Cole was he? Therein lies the problem.

Arsene never ever adequately replaces players.

Harsh.

The team last year was pretty much the team he built post-invincibles.

Now I'm not stupid enough to think that they in anyway compare....we're talking about the best team we've ever had, or are ever likely to see at our club.

But what he did replace them with (under some financial pressure, of our own making or not....was it policy or prudence??) a new team, that SHOULD have won the league last year.

We all know it didn't work out that way, but to say "The Replacements" were inadequate is, to me, a throw-away statement without much substance. They are good players. But we cocked up in other areas.....it wasn't the players themselves. EDIT: I should say, it wasn't the calibre of player....it was the way in which those players were sent out to do their job.

[selassie]

Harsh.

The team last year was pretty much the team he built post-invincibles.

Now I'm not stupid enough to think that they in anyway compare....we're talking about the best team we've ever had, or are ever likely to see at our club.

But what he did replace them with (under some financial pressure, of our own making or not....was it policy or prudence??) a new team, that SHOULD have won the league last year.

We all know it didn't work out that way, but to say "The Replacements" were inadequate is, to me, a throw-away statement without much substance. They are good players. But we cocked up in other areas.....it wasn't the players themselves. EDIT: I should say, it wasn't the calibre of player....it was the way in which those players were sent out to do their job.

I actually edited the post afterwards to include the word immediately.

I'll stand by my statement that a lot of the replacements post invincible are inferior, now I accept they are younger and have time to develop, but some of them...Clichy being a prime example haven't developed in the way I would of like, Ashley Cole is far superior to Clichy.

I'm just so frustrated with Arsene & Arsenal at the moment, I'm sick to death of the perpetual rebuilding.

In 07/08 Arsene built one of the best squads he's ever had at Arsenal with financial restrictions or whatever we want to call it. That summer he went about dismantling that squad and we've not looked the same since.

I realise that constantly moaning won't change things but how folks can say that we'll be OK when the heart of our team is being ripped out beggars belief.

Yes the players who are leaving haven't contributed anything in terms of trophies, but these are the players we should be adding quality to not removing.

At Arsenal it's always...1 step forward, 2 steps back.

[Champagne Charlie]

However, don't underestimate the attraction of Arsenal to players, with or without our top names. don't forget that we have seen big names leave in the past, only to be replaced by players such as Fabregas, and Nasri....now wanted by the biggest and welathiest clubs in the world.

If playing for Arsenal, in our big shiney stadium, in the champs league, with a manager who is not as stupid as people think is not incentive enough....then surely seeing unknowns develop and be sought after by money machines is....

I see where you're coming from, and I agree to an extent, players will always come and go, that's the nature of football these days. And Arsenal's a big club with a lot of pulling power. But there does seem to be a worrying trend of players wanting out and citing "ambition" as their reasons.

And I think your last line is worryingly spot on. The club is in danger of being seen by players as a stepping stone to a big payday and winning trophies. You mention Cesc and Nasri as players that have replaced other big names but now they want out, so we'll get a few years out of their replacements but then who's to say they wont want out too!? If every transfer we make is replacing leaving, quality squad players then how the hell are we ever going to move forward as a team?

[Kano]

But he wasn't a good enough replacement for Cole was he? Therein lies the problem.

Arsene never ever adequately replaces players immediately.

you can use hindsight to criticsie anything. the point is at the time and for quite a while afterwards people were more than happy with him as a replacement. that view has only changed in the past couple of years.

[Cripps_orig]

Yep been on the sports channels this morning, apparently Chlichy is already there having a medical before a £10mil move and Nasri is just beginning talks over a £22mil move.

Good or bad?

Good if we get quality replacements but we wont so bad id say.