Is it terminal?

[Letters]

And that's the sad truth. It's why we still struggle to beat certain styles. Teams that used to once park the bus have know realised they can counter as seen from earlier seasons when both Manchester teams ripped us open. Hughes used the same tactics against us last season as he did when coaching City. It's probably why we still have shit wingbacks and defenders. How can you not study your opponent?

Same logic works with our stale attack as well. When teams double mark our players or try to force them wide, we have no clue how to react except more of the same. If we want our players to develop, hs has to get them studying the opposition. Pisses me off to read that and the original poster has a point on that respect.

I don't think this has changed though. Wenger has always wanted us to play football in a certain way. Back in the day it didn't matter though because we had better players than everyone else and we were fitter than everyone else. Other teams could do what they liked and most of the time it didn't matter. Now we're still (contrary to popular belief on here) better than most teams but the gap is less and there are better teams around. We do on occasion need to change it and be more pragmatic and I do think one of Wenger's failings is a stubborn sticking to his principles regardless.

[Power n Glory]

Better teams, better coaches, better resources and i'm just talking about money. Teams have better scouting networks, access to information and videos on players, fitness has gone up..etc. The league has adapted and improved but Wenger hasn't. That's his downfall and why i can't rate him that much. He's able to take advantage of the league when it's weak, but now it's getting stronger he's really struggling. Before he leaves us, i want him to prove me wrong and have a period of domination cause at this moment, his legacy isn't looking as Grande.

It's like Button winning the F1 Championship with that suped up Brawn car. Or when Lennox Lewis was dominating the Heavyweight division. I can't respect it as much if you haven't faced real tough competitors that are also capable of domination.

[IBK]

Very good debate here. I can see both sides, really. One the one hand, Wenger will have very far-sighted ideas about how the game should be played - and its testament to his genius in this respect that he is regarded as one of the games greatest developmental managers, and still manages to achievetop four football despite his shortcomings.

But on the other hand, he is over philosophical, and ignores the basics. I've said before that he makes the game harder than it should be. And that permeates so many aspects of our game - our apparent disdain for set-pieces; failure to shoot from distance; lack of set up for how other teams play etc. What's more, I think that he is obsessed about development of individual players' technical skills - while at the same time often neglecting how we function as a team.

It is frustrating, because surely the 'easier' aspects of the game would neither detract from, nor be a massive burden on top of the things that the manager does well.

And in the context of the tread title, where does that leave us? Could another manager who does do the basics but doesn't have AW's genius at finding/developing cheap talent keep us where we are? Because as Dalglish; Redknapp; AVB and successive Chelsea managers have shown - its not an easy trick to pull off.

From where I'm standing, much as its eay to find fault in what he does - few if any managers would be able to achieve what Wenger does on a similar budget. So it might be a stark choice - stagnation at best. Inexorable decline at worst.

[Flavs]

Arsenal fans who think being the 3rd best team in league is shit

[Xhaka Can’t]

Third does rhyme with turd tbf.

[Joker]

Arsenal fans who think being the 3rd best team in league is shit

It's not shit but we have definitely stagnated. We haven't had a 2nd place finish since 2004-2005, and haven't won a trophy since that season. In the period from 1997/98 to 04/05, we had won 7 trophies. You can't deny it has been a deep stagnation, and we haven't been able to kick on the way we should have.

[Flavs]

It's not shit but we have definitely stagnated. We haven't had a 2nd place finish since 2004-2005, and haven't won a trophy since that season. In the period from 1997/98 to 04/05, we had won 7 trophies. You can't deny it has been a deep stagnation, and we haven't been able to kick on the way we should have.

Well of course i disagree we are now behind the biggest football club with the greatest manager ever and a club with the ultimate money cheat on. Yes we have stopped winning things but we have been to cup finals and short of the late season debacles of late we have been close to the league a couple of times. Wenger's teams have always been fragile mentally but before we had the individual quality to overcome such things, how many times did Henry or Vieira have to drag us to a result, even in the invincibles season. Players like that nowadays go to the money rather than to us simple as that, that's not Wenger's fault however.

Yes we make schoolboy errors on the pitch but find me a team that dont? Yes we make errors in the transfer market and in the corporate department we still bury 96% of teams in this nation however.

People always focus on the negative but we finished 3rd after being dire at times and getting our arses handed to us a couple of times. That is something to be proud of not angry about. The people who became arsenal fans during the invinceable season are essentially spoiled by a ridiculously high bar that no-one will get close to again and i notice on here that the younger posters tend to be the ones who moan endlessly about lack of trophies rather than accept it and try and focus on the good news. That isn't a "I'm a better fan than you" statement I just think we have seen previous troughs and therefore appreciate the peaks a little more.

[GP]

Well of course i disagree we are now behind the biggest football club with the greatest manager ever and a club with the ultimate money cheat on. Yes we have stopped winning things but we have been to cup finals and short of the late season debacles of late we have been close to the league a couple of times. Wenger's teams have always been fragile mentally but before we had the individual quality to overcome such things, how many times did Henry or Vieira have to drag us to a result, even in the invincibles season. Players like that nowadays go to the money rather than to us simple as that, that's not Wenger's fault however.

Yes we make schoolboy errors on the pitch but find me a team that dont? Yes we make errors in the transfer market and in the corporate department we still bury 96% of teams in this nation however.

People always focus on the negative but we finished 3rd after being dire at times and getting our arses handed to us a couple of times. That is something to be proud of not angry about. The people who became arsenal fans during the invinceable season are essentially spoiled by a ridiculously high bar that no-one will get close to again and i notice on here that the younger posters tend to be the ones who moan endlessly about lack of trophies rather than accept it and try and focus on the good news. That isn't a "I'm a better fan than you" statement I just think we have seen previous troughs and therefore appreciate the peaks a little more.

That's a good post.

[I_Killed_Kenny]

[Xhaka Can’t]

Great post Flavs.