Is it terminal?

[LDG]

Same.

Falvs

[Letters]

Better teams, better coaches, better resources and i'm just talking about money. Teams have better scouting networks, access to information and videos on players, fitness has gone up..etc. The league has adapted and improved but Wenger hasn't. That's his downfall and why i can't rate him that much. He's able to take advantage of the league when it's weak, but now it's getting stronger he's really struggling. Before he leaves us, i want him to prove me wrong and have a period of domination cause at this moment, his legacy isn't looking as Grande.

You understand that Wenger was one of the first to introduce new training and fitness methods and a knowledge of the global game?
It's others who have caught up with him in response. And billionaires have come along and made it damn near impossible to compete anyway.

His legacy is the new stadium and the best period of success in our history. We're not going to have another period of dominance under him (or anyone else) while City and Chelsea are able to throw as much money as they want around (FFP won't change that IMO). Wenger came along and took a decent but not exceptional side and made them exceptional. He made us better than the rest at the time using the methods I've mentioned above. To dismiss that because the other competitors weren't 'tough' is revisionism. Utd had won every PL title bar one till Wenger came along, the only other teams to stop them are Blackburn, Chelsea and now City. All fueled by big money men. We only had one exceptional team to beat but you could argue runners in the 100m this summer only have one exceptional athelete to beat in Bolt. That wouldn't make it any less of an achievement if they do.

[Power n Glory]

Very good debate here. I can see both sides, really. One the one hand, Wenger will have very far-sighted ideas about how the game should be played - and its testament to his genius in this respect that he is regarded as one of the games greatest developmental managers, and still manages to achievetop four football despite his shortcomings.

But on the other hand, he is over philosophical, and ignores the basics. I've said before that he makes the game harder than it should be. And that permeates so many aspects of our game - our apparent disdain for set-pieces; failure to shoot from distance; lack of set up for how other teams play etc. What's more, I think that he is obsessed about development of individual players' technical skills - while at the same time often neglecting how we function as a team.

It is frustrating, because surely the 'easier' aspects of the game would neither detract from, nor be a massive burden on top of the things that the manager does well.

And in the context of the tread title, where does that leave us? Could another manager who does do the basics but doesn't have AW's genius at finding/developing cheap talent keep us where we are? Because as Dalglish; Redknapp; AVB and successive Chelsea managers have shown - its not an easy trick to pull off.

From where I'm standing, much as its eay to find fault in what he does - few if any managers would be able to achieve what Wenger does on a similar budget. So it might be a stark choice - stagnation at best. Inexorable decline at worst.

Easier said than done, be we need a manager that can do both. Someone that comes from the school of 'Total football' but also believes in discipline and the basics. I hope Bergkamp one days becomes a successful manager at Ajax and then comes here.

Wenger's philosophy is great but I can't see why he doesn't focus on the basics and opposing teams. If you check the comments from Fabregas regarding Spain's preparation, they're able to study their opponents as well as play attractive football. I'm sure it's the same at Barca and they have an awesome defensive method as well as having the 'tika taka' style.

[Joker]

...And billionaires have come along and made it damn near impossible to compete anyway.

Not according to Wenger

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/...hout-competing

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Not according to Wenger

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/...hout-competing

Most of the time you say he talks rubbish though.

[Flavs]

Oh you can compete but when a team can essentially buy a 25 man squad made up of world class players and essentially bully all the other teams into giving you there players. Citeh and Chelsea before them are doing what Bayern and Lyon did for years but on a far greater and more garish scale.

No longer will things like Cloughie's Forest happen because as soon as hidden gem type players get marketed by the Sky machine they will get snapped up by the big boys.

I had a thought the other day about how the draft system in the NBA and thought that the teams who reveal the highest revenue should get the least TV/Premiership monies at the start of every season. So Citeh, Chelsea, us and Manyoo would get 15-20mil and the likes of Reading, QPR etc would get 25-30mil of it, that might help bridge the gap and remove the funding issues we have.

Joker mentioned in another thread that we are mainly backing the FFPR because its good for us, however when i see Citeh paying a player £160k a week and then loaning him out while teams like Portsmouth and Doncaster are selling everything that isn't bolted down to stay afloat the state of modern football disgusts me.

[Joker]

Most of the time you say he talks rubbish though.

LOL fair point. But on this occasion he's correct, and if he does at least compete against the likes of City and Chelsea this season (doesn't mean we have to win the league), then I'll hold my hands up and say he's lived up to his word. Otherwise, given what he's said in that article, he must take responsibility.

[Power n Glory]

You understand that Wenger was one of the first to introduce new training and fitness methods and a knowledge of the global game?
It's others who have caught up with him in response. And billionaires have come along and made it damn near impossible to compete anyway.

His legacy is the new stadium and the best period of success in our history. We're not going to have another period of dominance under him (or anyone else) while City and Chelsea are able to throw as much money as they want around (FFP won't change that IMO). Wenger came along and took a decent but not exceptional side and made them exceptional. He made us better than the rest at the time using the methods I've mentioned above. To dismiss that because the other competitors weren't 'tough' is revisionism. Utd had won every PL title bar one till Wenger came along, the only other teams to stop them are Blackburn, Chelsea and now City. All fueled by big money men. We only had one exceptional team to beat but you could argue runners in the 100m this summer only have one exceptional athelete to beat in Bolt. That wouldn't make it any less of an achievement if they do.

It's not revisionism because I've been having the same debates with rival fans for years. My Man Utd mates who also watched Serie A when at its strongest and La Liga would always say our team was too good for the Premier League, their aren't that many great teams/coaches/players and that's why we have our way so easily. They never rated the English league that much. Almost team played 4-4-2, long ball football and their wasn't a great deal of attacking teams. I'd tell them it's BS and defend the team but they'd point to our none performances in the Champions League and that would always be the sticking point. We could never produce the same sort of performance on the big stage with that team and used to go out of the competition early every time.

I'm not saying Wenger hasn't introduced new training methods to the league and transformed the English game, but when your players have bad diets and drink alcohol during the season and think it's ok, sorry but that's pretty poor league. A coach telling them to stop all that crap should have been bog standard because he's training professional athletes. Forget football for a second, every sport, besides darts maybe, should be encouraging healthy eating and no alcohol. Wenger was one of the first foreign coaches to come over here but he's not the only coach with a philosophy on how the game should be played and training methods. He got it from the Dutch. But he's done well to change things here.

Also, it would be worth you reading Wenger's recent comments about the billionaire boys. It's not impossible to compete with these guys on the pitch because we've beaten them on the field. That's no excuse. As for the Athletics comparison, Bolt is an exceptional athlete but there are plenty of runners out there that have beaten him this year, so it won't be a walk in the park for him.

[Letters]

Not according to Wenger

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/...hout-competing

Do you agree with him? I don't.

[IBK]

Arsenal fans who think being the 3rd best team in league is shit

You've missed the point, my man.

The debate is about whether we're declining or not, not whether being third is shit or not. We have declined in the past 8 years. Will we decline further? Is all.