Is it terminal?

[Power n Glory]

Real Madrid went through a title drought when they had the Galatico era. Dortmund have done it in Germany and it's happend again in France. It's possible and we don't play the top 3 week in week out. We've come close to winning the league but Wenger's stubbornness during the January transfer window has hampered us.

[Kano]

Real Madrid went through a title drought when they had the Galatico era. Dortmund have done it in Germany and it's happend again in France. It's possible and we don't play the top 3 week in week out. We've come close to winning the league but Wenger's stubbornness during the January transfer window has hampered us.

more do do with our injury problems than any transfer windows.

[Flavs]

You've missed the point, my man.

The debate is about whether we're declining or not, not whether being third is shit or not. We have declined in the past 8 years. Will we decline further? Is all.

Well no, i understood the thread I just think it's funny people see us being the 3rd best team in Britain as a bit wanky

[IBK]

Well no, i understood the thread I just think it's funny people see us being the 3rd best team in Britain as a bit wanky

Oh I agree - some of the over-egging is OTT. I guess it just smarts a bit that we've been out-muscled in recent times - and it really stings to see our best players leavign year on year. Objectively I'd agree - we're coming off a pretty good season.

[Power n Glory]

more do do with our injury problems than any transfer windows.

Yeah, it's both. Too many injuries to key players but we don't do anything in the January transfer window to give us that extra belief and push. Look what Arshavin and Ade did for us when bought in the January window when struggling for 4th.

[Letters]

It's not revisionism because I've been having the same debates with rival fans for years. My Man Utd mates who also watched Serie A when at its strongest and La Liga would always say our team was too good for the Premier League, their aren't that many great teams/coaches/players and that's why we have our way so easily. They never rated the English league that much. Almost team played 4-4-2, long ball football and their wasn't a great deal of attacking teams. I'd tell them it's BS and defend the team but they'd point to our none performances in the Champions League and that would always be the sticking point. We could never produce the same sort of performance on the big stage with that team and used to go out of the competition early every time.

I'm not saying Wenger hasn't introduced new training methods to the league and transformed the English game, but when your players have bad diets and drink alcohol during the season and think it's ok, sorry but that's pretty poor league. A coach telling them to stop all that crap should have been bog standard because he's training professional athletes. Forget football for a second, every sport, besides darts maybe, should be encouraging healthy eating and no alcohol. Wenger was one of the first foreign coaches to come over here but he's not the only coach with a philosophy on how the game should be played and training methods. He got it from the Dutch. But he's done well to change things here.

Also, it would be worth you reading Wenger's recent comments about the billionaire boys. It's not impossible to compete with these guys on the pitch because we've beaten them on the field. That's no excuse. As for the Athletics comparison, Bolt is an exceptional athlete but there are plenty of runners out there that have beaten him this year, so it won't be a walk in the park for him.

Before Heysel and the ban English clubs won the European Cup 7 years out of 8 in the late 70s and eary 80's. And that was when the real big drinking schools in clubs were around. Hardly a 'pretty poor league'. After the break they struggled a bit but English sides have been involved in 7 of the last 8 finals and won 3 times.

It's interesting that people who usually dismiss Wenger's comments as nonsense are now using them to back up their stance that we should be able to compete with City. What's he supposed to say? "We've got no chance, we might as well give up now"? Of course he's going to say he thinks we can compete. Maybe he even believes it. In practise it's incredibly difficult to do.

We beat City on the field in a one off game but over a long season when they can expensively assemble a squad far better than ours, buy our best players to make us weaker while they strengthen and buy such a large squad that injuries and fatigue are an irrelevance then it's very hard to compete. Utd have the best manager around, arguably the best manager ever, and they ultimately failed. They should have beaten them this year but it was only because of Ferguson they were anywhere near. City have a better squad than anyone and they'll spend again. Chelsea, despite their silverware, won't be happy with their league finish so they'll be spending big again. Utd doubtless will too and they have the best manager around. Is it really such a failure to finish below these sides?

I do think we can be pushing harder but it's not a failure to finish below a side like City and to beating them in a one off game is no indication that we can do so over the course of a long season when they can buy a far better squad than we can ever hope to, even if we could be doing more.

[Power n Glory]

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one. Saying it's impossible for us to win the league is pathetic talk quite frankly. You point at Man United every time and ignore the fact that they were level on points with City this season and won the title the season before last when they spent millions again.

Also, the league is one thing, but teams that might not have the stamina to win it are still able to pick up a cup win. We lost our Cup final against Birmingham. As already discussed, there are fundamental problems with the way Wenger sets his teams up and there is room for improvement. Tactics, training methods, injuries, how we use our resource, we can improve in all areas. We should be aspiring to improve but you're talking as if it's over and we can't go any further.

I'm not talking about the 70s and 80s either and I'm not talking about recent Champions League history where English teams have more foreign players than ever. Tactically and technically, English players are behind the other top leagues and it's improves because more overseas managers and players are coming over. Take all that away and it's poor. Look at the English national team as an example. Wenger brought an international style of football to the league and it was a revelation. He was the pioneer but now the competition is a lot tougher.