Is Wenger stale or is it us?

[Flavs]

I think the absence of Arteta was key. .

This, his presence in this team just cannot be underestimated

[Flavs]

Also, not wishing to sound like Joker but RvP is over rated

[Power n Glory]

Hmmm - yes RVP seemed like a good leader, but instinct says that a player who has behaved like he has so soon after the season ended may not have been quite the knight in shining armour that he seemed to be. Of course losing your captain and goal machine will be a blow, but it might also restore a bit of balance to our approach.

'Seemed'...he was. We all said it, the players said he was important and we can't say otherwise now that he's leaving. It's wishful thinking and sour grapes. The same was said about Cesc. That we'd have a more balanced team if he left. It didn't balance us, just weakened the middle and we lost our fluidity in play. We're losing another good player and it's the reason why we're having this discussion anyway. We lose key players every year and every year people always suggest we'll do better without them or downplay their contribution to the team. Lack of stability is killing us.

But that's a dead conversation. Now, it's about how we handle the loss of our key striker and captain and what Wenger will do differently this season.

[IBK]

Also, not wishing to sound like Joker but RvP is over rated

It will be really interesting to see how many he scores when he is not in an attacking team set up solely for him and his style of play. Lets remember that Adebayor scored 30+ and look what happened to him. I think RVP is quality, but he may well have been flattered by playing with us. I hope so, anyway.

[Flavs]

It will be really interesting to see how many he scores when he is not in an attacking team set up solely for him and his style of play. Lets remember that Adebayor scored 30+ and look what happened to him. I think RVP is quality, but he may well have been flattered by playing with us. I hope so, anyway.

Also be interesting to see how Pod and Giroud score when we get rid of RvP

[IBK]

'Seemed'...he was. We all said it, the players said he was important and we can't say otherwise now that he's leaving. It's wishful thinking and sour grapes. The same was said about Cesc. That we'd have a more balanced team if he left. It didn't balance us, just weakened the middle and we lost our fluidity in play. We're losing another good player and it's the reason why we're having this discussion anyway. We lose key players every year and every year people always suggest we'll do better without them or downplay their contribution to the team. Lack of stability is killing us.

But that's a dead conversation. Now, it's about how we handle the loss of our key striker and captain and what Wenger will do differently this season.

We do have a more balanced team since Cesc left. I'm not trying to downplay RVP's loss - of course losing our best players weakens the team - and we are trading a prolific goal scorer for unknowns. What I am questioning is whether, given his ambivalence towards our team, he was as wonderful a captain as his rep. I think that's a fair question to ask, given the circumstances.

And it aways mystifies me when fans who are negative towards want-away players are accused of sour grapes. What are we supposed to do - support them and praise them to the rooftops?

[Power n Glory]

Sour grapes. It's nuts to talk about Arteta and his influence but at the same time to downplay RVP's massive contribution to the team and his influence as captain. Yeah, he's being a dick, but let's not delude ourselves especially when we can see the value of having a guy like Arteta in the team.

[Power n Glory]

We do have a more balanced team since Cesc left. I'm not trying to downplay RVP's loss - of course losing our best players weakens the team - and we are trading a prolific goal scorer for unknowns. What I am questioning is whether, given his ambivalence towards our team, he was as wonderful a captain as his rep. I think that's a fair question to ask, given the circumstances.

And it aways mystifies me when fans who are negative towards want-away players are accused of sour grapes. What are we supposed to do - support them and praise them to the rooftops?

Be objective at least. You don't have to sing his praises but to talk as if he won't be missed is silly. Cesc and Nasri were missed last season and if we had them in the squad, we'd have been much stronger. There is no denying that. Them leaving didn't balance us at all. We've never had a season where Cesc and RVP are in great form all season. We've never had a season where we've got workers in the middle, as well as creative flair players, plus pacy wingers on the flanks and strong defenders, plus wingbacks and a good keeper.

If we'd have kept them, we'd have had a strong and balanced team where we'd have cover and balance in all areas for once!

[Joker]

Also, not wishing to sound like Joker but RvP is over rated

I agree, but when I was saying this last season everyone seemed to jump down my throat and close threads. Now there's a significant number of GWers who are on side.

[Power n Glory]

I agree, but when I was saying this last season everyone seemed to jump down my throat and close threads. Now there's a significant number of GWers who are on side.

At least be consistent in your views an suddenly revise them because you're pissed off with him.