Clichy has left. And Nasri in talks with Citeh.

[Boss]

I think you and Boss are confusing 2 issues.

Yes - agitating for a bigger pay day/wanting to win things are pretty standard for footballers these days, and given that a lot of Gooners are losing/have lost faith with AW you can't really blame players for feeling the same.

But the real issue here is whether Nasri merits being the highest wage earner at the club. He was on fire for 4 months last season, but if people really think he compares, consistency and performance wise to the likes of Rooney, Drogba - hell even VDV who for most of last season was Spurs' most important player, then they are much mistaken. As I said earlier, if you talk the talk you need to walk the walk, and Nasri's loss of form was perhaps the most conspicuous of anyone's during our dismal collapse.

The bottom line is that fingers would not be pointed at all if Nasri hadn't made himself into the latest in a long line of Arsenal players who show a single season or less of top form, and then think that they have made it. People slag off Cesc as well, but how many seasons of good form has he given us? Compare and contrast the likes of Adebayor, Flamini and Hleb.

Interestingly, since Bale and Modric have been brought up, Bale signed a 50K a week deal in 2010, and increased this to £70K in March following a pretty amazing 2 seasons. Modric signed a 7 year 70K pw deal in 2010. Nasri refused to sign last year and wants £110K plus pw or he's threatening to run his contract down and join our fiercest rivals. I don't think its too difficult to see where the antipathy is coming from.

The 'him wanting 110k per week or threatening to walk' is all based on press nonsense, nothing else. One week they say he'll leave, one week they say he'll stay.

Both times he's spoken out in the press he's been clear about what he wants. Van Persie had the same thoughts last season. PnG has given various reasons why Nasri isn't the type to be a mercenary - now this may be nonsense and he may only be in it for the money but PnG's reasons are far more valid than any press bollocks.

If we strengthen our squad and then he leaves, I'll abuse him for the mercenary he'll have proven himself to be. If you expect him to tolerate Wenger's garbage when none of the fans are, I don't see how he can be accused of being greedy.

[Flavs]

Clichy having a medical at Citeh right now and apparently Alvarez is off to Inter as well

Will be interesting to see who comes back fro preseason training

[milla]

Clichy having a medical at Citeh right now and apparently Alvarez is off to Inter as well

Will be interesting to see who comes back fro preseason training

Denilson, Almunia, Squillaci, Diaby, Chamakh, Bendtner.. all world class imo.

[danisinkz]

You are essentially reducing the whole rationale behind football to a financial equation, just as Wenger does. Of course the club shouldn't just throw money at every problem, that would be equally as bad. But there's an element of investment in football, you put back into the club what you earn and you also speculate to accumulate, and indeed there's an element of risk to that. Wenger is a risk free manager and as such he's pretty much unsuited to league we're in. This isn't about buying houses or cars, neither is it a typical business scenario as you try to suggest. How many top flight clubs have actually gone bust and closed down over the years, say in comparison to the local businesses? Even in the most dire circumstances, Leeds, Portsmouth, these clubs took a risk (or hired Harry Redknapp which is suicidal) and paid in terms of their status, but they still plough on. That's because sport is still (thank fuck) different to a typical business, even though it's rapidly heading in the wrong direction egged on by accountant types like Wenger. There's a connection between the club and the local area, there's a fan base, you can't substitute brand Y for brand X if you are an Arsenal supporter, there's only one Arsenal. If the business types have their way all this will change and in fact the indications are these narrow minded and emotional cripples are having it their way and killing the game in the process. What are we looking for? Arsenal FC one year, Emirates FC the next? A merger with THFC? All of the usual crap that goes on in business but brought to the football world? Football is different, whether you care to admit it or not, and people like Wenger aren't helping the game at all, he's driving it into the hands of people who only care about the money and don't give a shit about the sport - like our board.

If I'm a bum then I don't buy the expensive house because I know next year is likely to be just as unambitious as the previous. But if I'm a go-getter I speculate that the work I will do and the effort I'll put in will see me move ahead the next year to a better place, always on the up. So I might say fuck it and buy the more expensive house because I'm looking to improve rather than just exist. The big winners are also the big risk takers, those who play it safe might find a comfort zone but they don't rise to the top.

Nobody wants Wenger to throw millions around recklessly, they just want him to demonstrate he still has a pulse and is aware there's a lot more to this game than balancing the books. Do you think the guy still has the winning drive? I don't. I'd put my money with him if I wanted a solid 5% each year but I wouldn't waste my time backing him to win at football.

Who thinks the fans would have sat on their hands if the board had been honest and said this stadium move was a decade long project that would see the team emaciated in the process? Who would have sat still if they knew the board was going to bail before that process was completed? Do you see what's happened here? Our club has been sacrificed so a bunch of shits who didn't even need the money can cash in. That's the long and short of it. What does £4million mean to those guys? Lady Whatsherface banked £120mill+ didn't she? How much did she put in? How much did any of the other bastards put in and how much are they set to walk away with? Where's "Do Nothing" Stan getting all the cash from? Do we know yet?

They can stick their business model up their arses as far as I'm concerned. They can crow about its virtue all they want and meanwhile a team that used to be able to compete with the likes on Utd (they used to have to kick us of the pitch because they couldn't live with us) is swirling around the toilet bowl waiting for the one big final flush from Wenger. All is well, don't be so impatient, appreciate what you've got, he tells us - as he merrily continues to neglect the glaring problems this club has been facing for years and the fans sit and watch the team being humiliated by the likes of Newcastle, West Brom and Birmingham fucking City.

Shankley had it right, not Wenger. Football is much, much more than a sordid, nasty money-making trip for rich guys, or at least it fucking should be.

Great post! Baaaa aaaa aaaa aanngg On!

[IBK]

Thats a top post and your two points are very difficult to argue. I agree that The longer this thing runs on the more it smells as this move was calculated. Be it is at may his contract is up and he has every right to be looking for that payday unlike Adebayor who signed a contract and then wanted to renegotiate after one year.

My perspective is that I believe he has played well for us for 1.5 seasons rather than 4 months and I think Wenger would say the same thing. His first season was a success in my opinion and I believe that he carried the team for the first half of last season. He was brilliant and the talk about him amongst the best in the world was deserved. He faded though, he looked tired and out of gas in the second half of the season much like Wilshere did. Having said that I do believe that what he has shown in the 1.5 seasons along with his talent and potential (lets remember hes still onlyy 23) are worth the $$$ hes asking for. Even other clubs agree with that as they are willing to pay him that money. You can speculate as to what their motives are but it is what it is, they believe that he is worth the risk/money.

As for his attitude, I believe the attitude of the team reflects the atttitude of the Manager. Wenger lets this team get away with alot of lacklustre performances. Get a Manager in that can keep his team focused and I believe that you would see differrent results.

Then there is the whole other issue on the impact of selling him has on the club. Even if we dont sell to a rival it shows that we cant keep hold of our top players and that we are willing to talk to anyone about any of our players if the price is right. This is becoming a big problem as having such a high turnover of quality players will not get you anywhere near a trophy. Its suicide. For me this outweighs the negatives of giving the money to Nasri.

Excellent debate. Essentially this comes down to whether Nasri's potential is worth £110K pw. I don't deny he's played well, generally as my username shows - but a cursory glance at fans' votes for POTS this season and last suggest that he is not regarded as the best player at the club - which is what he wants his wages to reflect. As I've mentioned above, compare him to Modric or Bale - and I think some perspective kicks in.

Funnily enough, I am happy to agree that the club does, perhaps need to make a move that for once isn't governed purely by book-balancing, because this obsession is largely what has got us into the mess we are in now. But should this be in the form of paying over the odds for Nasri? I have to say no - given what we have seen of his attitude. I think we have to ask why he refused to sign last year - as you acknowledge, this looks calculated and tactical - and suggests a player whose priorities are financial, despite what he says. Nothing wrong with that, people may say. Well I think there might be. Look at the last player who agitated like this. What happened to his performances subsequently?

Then look at a similar parallel. Flamini runs his contract down and then plays out of his skin to secure a high profile move away. Pretty similar to what we are seeing with Nasri - and look how that ended up.

And the third point I'd raise is that of Nasri's reputation amongst senior members of the French squad. Remember the bust up with Gallas? I don't want to load too much onto this, but if a player is cocksure to the point of arrogance I would be very very wary of what he is going to be like, in the dressing room and on the pitch once he is the top wage earner at the club. Now I agree with you that Wenger's syle of management does little to keep egos under control at Arsenal. But unfortunately that's what we are going into next season with - and I have grave doubts as to whether taking the risk with Nasri will translate into the 110% committed performances that we would expect to see. I see an Adebayor MkII.

So then we turn to the wisdom of selling him to our rivals. I'm not at all happy about this - either what it says about us as a club, or the potential advantage it gives our rivals. But If I am honest, I don't see us challenging for the title next season anyway, and if the EPL is the only source of a bumper transfer fee, then I can understand the manager selling to United or Citeh. Our previous sales to Citeh haven't hurt us much - and I do feel that there is still a feeling that Arsenal attacking players are technically the very best and this commands a premium that is not always merited when you look at the complete package. I'm afraid that our status as a selling cub was established years ago, and is cemented every season we don't win anything.

[IBK]

The 'him wanting 110k per week or threatening to walk' is all based on press nonsense, nothing else. One week they say he'll leave, one week they say he'll stay.

Both times he's spoken out in the press he's been clear about what he wants. Van Persie had the same thoughts last season. PnG has given various reasons why Nasri isn't the type to be a mercenary - now this may be nonsense and he may only be in it for the money but PnG's reasons are far more valid than any press bollocks.

If we strengthen our squad and then he leaves, I'll abuse him for the mercenary he'll have proven himself to be. If you expect him to tolerate Wenger's garbage when none of the fans are, I don't see how he can be accused of being greedy.

Everything we are arguing is based on supposition; speculation and PR speak. No reason for the pro or anti Nasri camp to take the moral high ground on this. You say nonsense. I say that the fact that the player refused to sign last year, and the self-evident brinkmanship that is taking place now suggests otherswise. FWIW all this 'match my expectations' stuff we hear about these days is bollox too. Being able to understand why a player might want to try his hand elsewhere is not the same as justifying his importance for our team. In fact, for where AFC are right now - I'd say the 2 are pretty much mutually exclusive.

And that's where I'm coming from. I don't hate Nasri. I just don't think he is a player or a personality that the club should be held to ransom over.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Clichy having a medical at Citeh right now and apparently Alvarez is off to Inter as well

Will be interesting to see who comes back fro preseason training

Seems like signing him was not a bad idea after all if inter waned him.

[Marc Overmars]

Inter do have a very large South American contingent, so when they entered the frame we were always likely to come off 2nd best IMO.

Anyway, at least this means we will hopefully look for a better known alternative.

[Power n Glory]

Everything we are arguing is based on supposition; speculation and PR speak. No reason for the pro or anti Nasri camp to take the moral high ground on this. You say nonsense. I say that the fact that the player refused to sign last year, and the self-evident brinkmanship that is taking place now suggests otherswise. FWIW all this 'match my expectations' stuff we hear about these days is bollox too. Being able to understand why a player might want to try his hand elsewhere is not the same as justifying his importance for our team. In fact, for where AFC are right now - I'd say the 2 are pretty much mutually exclusive.

And that's where I'm coming from. I don't hate Nasri. I just don't think he is a player or a personality that the club should be held to ransom over.

It will be interesting to see what happens when RVP and Walcott go up for contract talks. I think we should just give him the money and make it clear that we expect a return on our investment. That's if he accepts and it's really all about the wages. But he could just be refusing to talk about a deal because he doesn't want to stay. His performance, like the rest of the team, dropped as soon as the Januray transfer window shut. I don't think anyone could believe the club could be so tight fisted and not spend when we needed a new CB. We were battling for all four trophies.

What's worse, they saw the same thing happen the season before when we needed a striker. Instead of spending, Wenger played Arshavin in the middle and that cost a few points and I'm sure it raised a few eyebrows. I know Arsahvin wasn't happy and when an experienced manager makes such a silly move, he loses the respect of his players.

Nasri's game dropped off in January when we decided not to buy. The fans were questioning the ambition of the club and I'm pretty sure the same thoughts ran through the players heads. The back to back draws and losses were pitiful and Wenger couldn't rally the troops. We all knew something was wrong in the camp and now we are seeing the fall out. Players want to leave. I don't like Nasri that much and think we can live without him, but if giving in to his 'wage demands' sets a standard that others will try to follow, selling him off will have a similar effect. RVP said we need to change our policy when we were about to lose Ade, Hleb and Flamini. He won't sign a deal if we do this again.

[Mr.Singh]

This alvarez deal has Di Maria written all over it....