Change we need.

[Niall_Quinn]

I can totally imagine this, he was after all a massive advocate of the stadium move, he didn't put his money in but was said to be the driving force (before this all came to fruition)

Yet again, not so simple. Wenger may well have been the driving force but this does not automatically imply his agenda is what he sees around him today. A lot of other events have unfolded at Arsenal during those years. This comes back to who runs the club. Some say Wenger, and others correctly say the shareholders. Circumstances and opportunities can alter motives and agendas. What's said on public can mean the reverse in private, you just have to look at a government manifesto to confirm this fact.

[Power n Glory]

Yet again, not so simple. Wenger may well have been the driving force but this does not automatically imply his agenda is what he sees around him today. A lot of other events have unfolded at Arsenal during those years. This comes back to who runs the club. Some say Wenger, and others correctly say the shareholders. Circumstances and opportunities can alter motives and agendas. What's said on public can mean the reverse in private, you just have to look at a government manifesto to confirm this fact.

Wenger is full of shit. Go back to last year when fans were pissed about the ticket price hike and tried to control the outrage by saying the price hike would help us compete with the bigger clubs.

Who knows what is happening behind closed doors but when he makes that sort of statement and purposely misleads fans, getting people to believe that the price hike will benefit us on the field when it's most likely helped to pay off bonuses and the increase in Gazidis's wages, you know he can't be trusted for shit.

He's no victim and it's worth remembering that he's okay to sit back and watch the Board rummage through the fans pockets to fuel their wage increases and bonuses. He didn't have to jump to defend the ticket price hike but he chose to be the spokesperson to deflect criticism away from the board and get fans thinking it would benefit us on the pitch. He's a con man.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger is full of shit. Go back to last year when fans were pissed about the ticket price hike and tried to control the outrage by saying the price hike would help us compete with the bigger clubs.

Who knows what is happening behind closed doors but when he makes that sort of statement and purposely misleads fans, getting people to believe that the price hike will benefit us on the field when it's most likely helped to pay off bonuses and the increase in Gazidis's wages, you know he can't be trusted for shit.

He's no victim and it's worth remembering that he's okay to sit back and watch the Board rummage through the fans pockets to fuel their wage increases and bonuses. He didn't have to jump to defend the ticket price hike but he chose to be the spokesperson to deflect criticism away from the board and get fans thinking it would benefit us on the pitch. He's a con man.

The thing is, I didn't say he was a victim. I said his actions can't be considered in isolation, they are connected to a bigger picture and that's what we need to look at when we judge his actions. Why is it such a surprise when the manager of a corporation peddles the company line? And to play devil's advocate, the ticket hike maybe did benefit us on the field. Without it they probably still would have had their pay rises and just sold off another player or two to make the difference up. Of course he's a con man. He's a manager at a major corporation. The next guy in will be a con man too. Part of the job description.

[Power n Glory]

The thing is, I didn't say he was a victim. I said his actions can't be considered in isolation, they are connected to a bigger picture and that's what we need to look at when we judge his actions. Why is it such a surprise when the manager of a corporation peddles the company line? And to play devil's advocate, the ticket hike maybe did benefit us on the field. Without it they probably still would have had their pay rises and just sold off another player or two to make the difference up. Of course he's a con man. He's a manager at a major corporation. The next guy in will be a con man too. Part of the job description.

Oh jeez! That's sad! Look at yourself!

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh jeez! That's sad! Look at yourself!

Which part? Which champion do you have in mind to ride in here and suddenly transform the place? Is that how it works?

[Power n Glory]

Which part? Which champion do you have in mind to ride in here and suddenly transform the place? Is that how it works?

It amazes me that you have such scorn for players like RVP, Song and Walcott but so understanding when it comes to the man that is actually helping to rob us. No talk of greed or moral bankruptcy, just all explained away by saying this is part of his job. Quite amazing!

[Niall_Quinn]

It amazes me that you have such scorn for players like RVP, Song and Walcott but so understanding when it comes to the man that is actually helping to rob us. No talk of greed or moral bankruptcy, just all explained away by saying this is part of his job. Quite amazing!

Why do you assume the only alternative to total and outright condemnation is fellatio? I'm not explaining anything away. I'm saying we may not be in possession of all the facts and therefore the often simple conclusions we reach on this forum should come with a margin of error at least. Then people start with, Wenger said this, Wenger said that, so that proves something. We're allowed to hear the public and unified statements from an otherwise secretive company. I've already said, as far as I can speculate Wenger has sided with the board against the fans and I don't see the two groups as being compatible. So I'm against what he's doing. But I also appreciate what he's done in the past and I don't feel there's a requirement to slaughter him at every opportunity. The RvC, Song, Walcott stuff I also explained earlier. The ****s have left the club, they can fuck themselves.

[Power n Glory]

There you go. The opening sentences and last few sentences should give you your answer. A long drawn out appeal to reason for a man that has been milking us along for a long time now. Plenty of quotes and facts to go with it compared to the speculation we here about players. If you're appeal to reason and to look for facts were true across the board in these sorts of discussions, I'd have no problem letting this one go. But as said before, there are huge contradictions in your stance.

[Niall_Quinn]

There you go. The opening sentences and last few sentences should give you your answer. A long drawn out appeal to reason for a man that has been milking us along for a long time now. Plenty of quotes and facts to go with it compared to the speculation we here about players. If you're appeal to reason and to look for facts were true across the board in these sorts of discussions, I'd have no problem letting this one go. But as said before, there are huge contradictions in your stance.

What are you on about? I'm not appealing to you for anything. You can take my view or leave it. Neither am I asking permission to have that view. You can let whatever you want go, it won't affect me either way. Failure to condemn Wenger on all accounts and in all instances is not a contradiction, unless you are engaged in an unyielding witch hunt.

[Power n Glory]

Like your witch hunt against the board and uncompromising stance against greed in the game? When it comes to Wenger, your approach changes and there are a few contridictions. I'm just calling it out and not asking you to do anything.