Redknapp to Arsenal

[Özim]

i agree with tose points you make bar one, the one in bold because this year and last year he has changed, merts, santos, arteta, cazorla, podolski are not unknowns, he changed his transfer policy

I'll say that last summer was panic buying, we were left with nowhere to go and had to get whatever we could, so in that sense he was limited choice wise.

Maybe this summer was better, though point 6 applies to it.

[Letters]

I'm not dismissing them just putting them into perspective, this is based on the fact that in 7 years he's managed no success at all....

Again, that is only true if your only definition of success is winning trophies. You said before you're not a glory hunter. I asked you at the tail end of last season if you'd swap our season (finishing 3rd after a somewhat bumpy journey) with Liverpool's (winning the Carling Cup, losing the FA Cup final, finishing mid-table) and you said you wouldn't. Nor would I. Their manager got sacked for it. Wenger's failure to land a single trophy for so long is damning but that doesn't mean the whole 7 years have been abject failure.

The Invincibles was a team of players pretty much entirely bought by Wenger. So yes, his early success was assisted by the players. All success is assisted by the players. They're the ones who achieve it! But Wenger built that squad, you can't dismiss that.

We can't ignore the billionaires because they have clearly changed football but they're not the only reason for our failure. I agree with a lot of your points but for all his failings we have stayed top 4 every year. You dismiss that (because you refuse to give Wenger credit for anything) but plenty of clubs have spent a lot more than us, in an era where money and success are highly correlated, and failed to unseat us.

You can scrutinise his past achievements if you like but the facts are he built a squad which was largely (towards the end almost entirely) his own which played some of the best football I've ever seen and won a load of trophies. You can't sensibly dump all the blame on him for our current malaise and deny him credit for previous achievements.

I do think it's fair to say he had better people around him back then, he needs better people around him now and maybe if he did that would be a better solution to our problems than replacing Wenger. IMO the biggest problem is that football has changed and Wenger hasn't. He hasn't adapted well enough to the challenges of the modern game.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I didn't like the style of play, didn't like the fact we'd not replaced Vieira adequately (sure we had Fabregas but he was playmaker not an physical player like Vieira). That was just the start of the troubles of course.

I get your point about Vieira. But i don't think Changing styles meant he should leave or it was a problem. This tippy tappy was some of the best footie we have seen in this country. And i even loved that fast counter attacking stuff.

We would have been silly to lose Wenger in 2006 just after we moved into the stadium. If someone else came in at that time, we'd be in a worse mess then we are now. Things only really got bad when we started selling of Cesc and Nasri, then Song and RVP this year. Apart from these 4 and maybe Henry i don't think we sold anybody that could not be replaced. The media reaction to selling players is worse then it is (apart from the 5 mentioned).

[Niall_Quinn]

I have to work today so can't post much. Could somebody keep the thread going until I get back? Thanks lads.

[Kano]

Mods should just close this thread its getting embarressing now.

i agree.

we have a few hours before nq gets back from his afternoon tesco shift.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I have to work today so can't post much. Could somebody keep the thread going until I get back? Thanks lads.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I'm not dismissing them just putting them into perspective, this is based on the fact that in 7 years he's managed no success at all....has he suddenly become a manager who can't succeed or is it that his early success was assisted greatly by the players involved at the time, with them acting as his generals on the pitch and being the driving force. The football was great yes and that was down to him, but I was really focussing on the success part more than anything.

I hear to excuses about billonaires time and time again, but in a sense we can ignore that and look at his performance, tactics, signings and decisions. If you analyse these over the last 7 years, it's pretty easy to spot the errors as there are plenty of them.

Here's just a few:
1) He not learnt anything from the mistakes that occur time and time again
2) He's not looked to change his transfer policy by going for more established players, sometimes available at a good price
3) He doesn't setup his teams based on the opposition (he's admitted he just thinks we should play our game)
4) He remained reliant on players who are injury prone and always injured
5) He's not managed to find solutions to problem areas like the defence
6) He's never replaced our departing stars adequately (rarely any signs of planning)
7) He's not learnt that this style of football only works with players of the highest calibre
8) He's made some incredibly odd decisions like for example dropping Arshavin for that FA Cup game
9) He's stuck with players who clearly aren't up to scratch for much too long

I don't see how a top manager can make so many errors so often and still be considered one and at the same time not have his previous achievements looked at more carefully.

Cant not agree with a lot of those points. . .it does make things quite stark

[Maestro]

Well whoever was right or wrong and when they were right or wrong, whoever was half right and whoever changed their minds it would now seem prudent, following the whole board, manager, badge kissing player thing to treat them all as nothing much to do with us. They do their own thing without regard and that's certainly something that has been successfully developed over the 7 years - at all clubs. Not much of a club left here from what I can see but I'd struggle to blame that all on Wenger. I think everything has gone wrong with the game. Maybe that's all it is, the game changed around Wenger and he refused to change with it. Maybe it's no more complicated than that. As such he has to go then. But suggesting Redknapp as a replacement is not a slap at Wenger, which is probably what you have been trying to do, it is a slap at the club - our club I mean, the one we remember. So that's unacceptable for me. Wenger out I can entertain. Redknapp in is inconceivable long before I get anywhere near the football reasons, which I don't believe exist in his case anyway.

Zimm, hang in there ...some hard knocks being thrown your way on here!

I get you and so does NQ, above, we're all sick of Wenger's increased ineptness at his job and all the ****ery of the board which has led the club to this point. Everyone is just as dissapointed and upset, but we're on the same side here bro.

Pay heed to NQ's post above, let's argue, let's fight, let's debate, let's agree and disagree ...but at the end of the day we're all Arsenal here and this is our house. Bringing Harry into this, is tantamount to trying destroy our unity as a club, as fans and as friends on here. It is wishing hatred toward your own kind, has nothing to do with football comparison.

We are Arsenal and we hate Harry ...surely that is ingrained in your GW DNA somewhere?
I have nothing against you man, but Harry fuckin Redknapp??? ...that's a bit harsh on the club dude, really harsh

[Ernesto]

I'm not dismissing them just putting them into perspective, this is based on the fact that in 7 years he's managed no success at all....has he suddenly become a manager who can't succeed or is it that his early success was assisted greatly by the players involved at the time, with them acting as his generals on the pitch and being the driving force. The football was great yes and that was down to him, but I was really focussing on the success part more than anything.

I hear to excuses about billonaires time and time again, but in a sense we can ignore that and look at his performance, tactics, signings and decisions. If you analyse these over the last 7 years, it's pretty easy to spot the errors as there are plenty of them.

Here's just a few:
1) He not learnt anything from the mistakes that occur time and time again
2) He's not looked to change his transfer policy by going for more established players, sometimes available at a good price
3) He doesn't setup his teams based on the opposition (he's admitted he just thinks we should play our game)
4) He remained reliant on players who are injury prone and always injured
5) He's not managed to find solutions to problem areas like the defence
6) He's never replaced our departing stars adequately (rarely any signs of planning)
7) He's not learnt that this style of football only works with players of the highest calibre
8) He's made some incredibly odd decisions like for example dropping Arshavin for that FA Cup game
9) He's stuck with players who clearly aren't up to scratch for much too long

I don't see how a top manager can make so many errors so often and still be considered one and at the same time not have his previous achievements looked at more carefully.

Very well written. Would get even the most ardent Wenger-ites thinking!

[Maestro]

I'm not dismissing them just putting them into perspective, this is based on the fact that in 7 years he's managed no success at all....has he suddenly become a manager who can't succeed or is it that his early success was assisted greatly by the players involved at the time, with them acting as his generals on the pitch and being the driving force. The football was great yes and that was down to him, but I was really focussing on the success part more than anything.

I hear to excuses about billonaires time and time again, but in a sense we can ignore that and look at his performance, tactics, signings and decisions. If you analyse these over the last 7 years, it's pretty easy to spot the errors as there are plenty of them.

Here's just a few:
1) He not learnt anything from the mistakes that occur time and time again
2) He's not looked to change his transfer policy by going for more established players, sometimes available at a good price
3) He doesn't setup his teams based on the opposition (he's admitted he just thinks we should play our game)
4) He remained reliant on players who are injury prone and always injured
5) He's not managed to find solutions to problem areas like the defence
6) He's never replaced our departing stars adequately (rarely any signs of planning)
7) He's not learnt that this style of football only works with players of the highest calibre
8) He's made some incredibly odd decisions like for example dropping Arshavin for that FA Cup game
9) He's stuck with players who clearly aren't up to scratch for much too long

I don't see how a top manager can make so many errors so often and still be considered one and at the same time not have his previous achievements looked at more carefully.

This Zimm ..and not Harry.

You're bang on the money with all those points, and that there is more than enough grounds for sacking Wenger

Just to back up your points 4) & 9), (Campbell & Miyachi excused) here's fresh graveyard that reads RIP:
Arshavin - £80,000 , Chamakh - £50,000, Denilson - £50,000, Bendtner - £52,000, Squillaci - £60,000, Park - £40,000, Djourou - £50,000, Diaby - £50,000, Rosicky - £60,000, Santos - £50,000....yes people, that is a whole team (10) of ghost workers on the payroll but listed as first team players. They are effectively not working at or for the club ..contributing nothing, but what is the combined wage packet here and can this not be better deployed.

More than anything, that what really winds me up about Wenger. Preaching austerity and financial prudence ..lorded as some sort of economic guru, but at the same time pocketing £6/7m a year ...then sign and keep those players on the dole at that rate of real financial loss. This needs to be investigated quite frankly