Match Reaction v Aston Villa

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Handled that like a boss.

Giving then the short shrift their stupid questions deserved.

Pretty much. Don't see the big deal with Giroud going off with 2 mins to go after all he is "useless as they say on here" Just another thing to moan about eh.

He actually competed in the league last year, even if in the end he failed....and every year they are competitive even with far inferior teams to the opposition. Yes they went out at the group stages of the CL, but his record is far far better than Wenger's in the CL I'm afraid.

The press respect a manager who delivers success year on year, who wouldn't he's proven himself time and time again.

if you believe that. The press repect AW as much as they do Fergie, Its just easier to grill him for what he has not won in the last 7 years.

Even when he was winning they still gave Wenger a hard time its not just the last 7 years. But who gives a shit about the press anyways.

[Kano]

from what i've heard the press love wenger because he will always give them a direct answer. he is one of their favourites to quote, that's for sure.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

There is a reason Wenger makes the decisions he does.

They may not be good ones analysing them from home but over the course of a season are good enough to make top four, which is all that's important.

Fans need to be patient until FFP kicks in, if it does. If not we're fucked either way.

Don't let the power go to your head now!

Just saying it's hard to keep a discussion confined to one section these days, especially when it's a reaction to an incident that has actually happened during the match. But do what you please.

I think GB is talking about the whole thread no just what was related to the incident. Its the same every match thread when we lose or draw not just this one.

[milla]

You clearly don't know much about either BVB, Football or the outside world; just wish I had known this a while earlier and if had, I wouldn't have even bothered.

For the sake of others reading our exchange, Dortmund is a regional power house at best- one of the biggest clubs in Germany but clearly no match for the national heavyweight that is Bayern. Since the 90's (when there resurgence started) I've always had a strong affiliation to them, they always had a lovely style of play and produced and had wonderful talents like Chapuisat, Moller and one of my favourite brazillians (because he could actually defend) Julio Cesar. I stopped following them by the early 2000s but still hold a soft spot for them and I'm happy they're relevant again.

Yes they currently have the highest average attendance in Europe but guess what- build a 90000 seater in Tyneside and Newcastle would fill it too. Any true Dortmund fan would not begrudge me comparing their team to Newcastle because of similarities in them being regional heavyweighters and their quite loyaly fanatic fans. Also their derbys with Schalke mirrors the Tyne v Wear clashes we have up here. But Dortmund is deservedly a far more prestigious team, but prestige does not equal size.

Anway despite all that, we are the bigger club in almost every important ramification. Nationally we have more Arsenal fans in the UK than they have Dortmund fans in Germany. Internationally it is no contest. In the 1930's we were already boasting of 70000 plus coming to see our matches while they were still struggling to get anyone interested in them. Revenue wise we are considerbaly bigger. In my own personal travels to every continent except South America and the ones full of Ice- I have seen Arsenal jersey's everywhere- I have never seen a Dortmund jersey out of Europe- except once or twice in Africa ages ago. And BTW anyone who has been to Brazil knows that Arsenal jerseys are littered in the big cities.

So again what is your point? Is it the stadium, because it only gets 80000 because it has standing capacity something a lot of gooners would welcome if we were allowed in this country. Oh, or is it the fact they have done better in Europe than us, yeah that makes sense. Forest and Villa must be titans world wide- infact I'm guessing Klopp would refuse Arsenal because he has the burning desire to be the man that wins the 3rd European title for Forest so they can equal Man U and still claim to be the second most successful side in the country- idiot.

Note:You were the one who responded to my fact that Dortmund is a smaller club than Arsenal, so put up or shut up.

LOL It is not a fact it is your evaluation. Using your evaluation, Arsenal is also regional power house as we won far too few compare to ManU. In fact less successful than Dortmund as we have no European titles to bragged about. At the end of the day it is the trophy counts not how much money you make (unless you are Wumger).

You are overrating english league by comparing Newcastle to Dortmund, what has Newcastle done to deserve such comparison?

I don't think we have more fan base in England than Dortmund in Germany. Looking at their away fans.., they definitely have more fans who actually would spend their money on their club.

Finally, they don't have our small club mentality, at least now. Why would Klopp sign for a club who wants to win 4th place?

Get your fact right, Arsenal is no better than Dortmund number wise, trophy wise.. Arsenal is only bigger at milking more money from fans.

[Grebbo]

The Ox is a bit shit isn't he?

Waste of £12m

[GP]

Back on topic...

Anyone see the Grand Prix today? Thrilling finale.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Around the world, the proportion of people watching the Budesliga and Dortmund in particular is miniscule compared to those watching the EPL and Arsenal in particular.

The worldwide fanbases of Arsenal and Dortmund are not even worth comparing.

[Master Splinter]

Back on topic...

Anyone see the Grand Prix today? Thrilling finale.

Did Ralph win?

[GP]

Did Ralph win?

They choo choo chose him.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

If Wenger really is in charge and the board is subordinate to his decision making, then Wenger won't be leaving unless he chooses to right? That's simple logic to follow. So end of debate right there, nothing else to be said.

On the other hand, if we rely on reality and suggest the board makes the decisions then only they can get rid of Wenger. Again very simple logic.

We've been through an analysis of the board's agenda many times, so let's not go over it again. But every single declaration from the board indicates they are 100% behind Wenger. So I'm wondering what the Wenger out movement is hoping to achieve by badgering the manager and ignoring the people who can actually influence any of this. But say the board decides to get rid of him. What do you expect to change then? Some say a better tactician will get the team playing better and achieve better results. Perhaps. So what happens when the new guy gets the team to where he wants it and the top players are sold? Or is the idea supposed to be a new manager will change the direction of the board as well? Kroenke will suddenly become a football fan who decides to pump his money in for love? Is that the hope? That's what people are prepared to swap the trashing of our most successful manager for?

I realise some are attempting to bypass all logic by suggesting Wenger wanted to sell his top players and would rather be 4th than 1st. But if we stick with what is sane, what's the plan once Wenger is (somehow, though nobody has explained how) hounded out? Fans can climb in the sewer with the media and throw all sorts of shit at the manager in an attempt to drive him out. Say they succeed. What's next? What do we scream for next?

I don't get you NQ- it's like you see the problem (at least you have for like a year now on every match thread) but you just don't want to admit it.

We all agree that the board's main concern is themselves and growing their wealth- or as they would like us to believe Arsenal's wealth. No one argues or disputes that. The board/club sell our best players in order to balance the books- at least thats the excuse they give us every year- but we know this model has resulted in them not having to spend a penny on Arsenal by making us self-sustaining while conversely increasing their wealth. Anyway the link is the board can really only make gains from Arsenal by growing Arsenal's worth- as they still can't consume our profits directly. So the key thing here is increasing revenue, revenue and revenue- while trying their best to control relative costs that everyone faces.

The simple point is this, we have been selling our best players to cover the fact that our direct footballing revenue (matchday revenue) isn't really getting the bump that we had expected because of us never going the whole hog in Europe or any of the cups. Our merchandise doesn't sell that well because no Chinese guy wants to spend his hard earned money on a perennial loosers when "Chessy" just wont the European cup. Our tv revenue is dependant on how far we go and how much we appeal to the outside world so we have had to deal with Chelsea and now Man City slicing out of our percentage of TV money as we aren't as fashionable as Man U have remained. In short we are selling our best players because Wenger is trying to cover the black hole his footballing failures keep costing this club.

It has been proven over and over again by Man U, Real Madrid and now Barcelona- that making your brand attractive (and winning is the best way to do that) is the fastest way of creating revenue in this entertainment business we are in. Barcelona was far behind us 7 years ago in their worth but now have caught up. Man U has drastically increased the gap and so has Real. Whether those dinosours in the board room like it or not, they have created less wealth for themselves by jettisoning performance based sales for cashing in on assets. Ihe easiset way to make yourself richer, as the Glazers have proved is to make sure your team is still winning, the brand is still premium, and the worth of your asset (the club) will more than compensate for an intial spike in costs. The board and wenger have treated this club like a sort of small time supermarket, and thus our growth and their wealth has been limted by this approach.

The truth is they are being conservative with their tried and tested formulae, since it still works but it's clear they are reaching a point where they are running out of premium assets to sell (players) and what we do have now is being undervalued becuase everyone knows we are a feeder club (Fabregas). Lets not forget that liverpool got 50 million for toress because they made the deal look impossible, while fergie got 80 million for Ronaldo creating the same approach. IF we add Viera +henry+ fabregas+ nasri+ RVP- we just about get our 80 million. And i haven't even added his Tevez sale.

In short, we compensate for our stagnant income by selling our players and making the fans pay an arm and a leg- the more successfull we are as a club on the footbal field, the sooner we are able to return our brand to a premium brand- the more the board will make money. I'm sure practically all their financial advisers would be at least as qualified as me and I'm sure they know this.

Anyway a winning manager will not need to sell unless stupid money is thrown at him- like the Ronaldo case. As everyone points out, no top team in Europe keeps selling their best talent the way Arsenal do, and they keep increasing their worth at a faster rate than we do.