Match Reaction v Aston Villa

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't get you NQ- it's like you see the problem (at least you have for like a year now on every match thread) but you just don't want to admit it.

We all agree that the board's main concern is themselves and growing their wealth- or as they would like us to believe Arsenal's wealth. No one argues or disputes that. The board/club sell our best players in order to balance the books- at least thats the excuse they give us every year- but we know this model has resulted in them not having to spend a penny on Arsenal by making us self-sustaining while conversely increasing their wealth. Anyway the link is the board can really only make gains from Arsenal by growing Arsenal's worth- as they still can't consume our profits directly. So the key thing here is increasing revenue, revenue and revenue- while trying their best to control relative costs that everyone faces.

The simple point is this, we have been selling our best players to cover the fact that our direct footballing revenue (matchday revenue) isn't really getting the bump that we had expected because of us never going the whole hog in Europe or any of the cups. Our merchandise doesn't sell that well because no Chinese guy wants to spend his hard earned money on a perennial loosers when "Chessy" just wont the European cup. Our tv revenue is dependant on how far we go and how much we appeal to the outside world so we have had to deal with Chelsea and now Man City slicing out of our percentage of TV money as we aren't as fashionable as Man U have remained. In short we are selling our best players because Wenger is trying to cover the black hole his footballing failures keep costing this club.

It has been proven over and over again by Man U, Real Madrid and now Barcelona- that making your brand attractive (and winning is the best way to do that) is the fastest way of creating revenue in this entertainment business we are in. Barcelona was far behind us 7 years ago in their worth but now have caught up. Man U has drastically increased the gap and so has Real. Whether those dinosours in the board room like it or not, they have created less wealth for themselves by jettisoning performance based sales for cashing in on assets. Ihe easiset way to make yourself richer, as the Glazers have proved is to make sure your team is still winning, the brand is still premium, and the worth of your asset (the club) will more than compensate for an intial spike in costs. The board and wenger have treated this club like a sort of small time supermarket, and thus our growth and their wealth has been limted by this approach.

The truth is they are being conservative with their tried and tested formulae, since it still works but it's clear they are reaching a point where they are running out of premium assets to sell (players) and what we do have now is being undervalued becuase everyone knows we are a feeder club (Fabregas). Lets not forget that liverpool got 50 million for toress because they made the deal look impossible, while fergie got 80 million for Ronaldo creating the same approach. IF we add Viera +henry+ fabregas+ nasri+ RVP- we just about get our 80 million. And i haven't even added his Tevez sale.

In short, we compensate for our stagnant income by selling our players and making the fans pay an arm and a leg- the more successfull we are as a club on the footbal field, the sooner we are able to return our brand to a premium brand- the more the board will make money. I'm sure practically all their financial advisers would be at least as qualified as me and I'm sure they know this.

Anyway a winning manager will not need to sell unless stupid money is thrown at him- like the Ronaldo case. As everyone points out, no top team in Europe keeps selling their best talent the way Arsenal do, and they keep increasing their worth at a faster rate than we do.

Much of what you are saying there is plausible, I don't dispute it. Especially the comments on our feeder club status which for me demonstrates the primary shareholder has a relatively short term plan in place which isn't hugely connected to the football on the pitch or even the assets on the pitch. Simplified I would say the ex-shareholders (some of them) saw a way to cash out for a ridiculously huge return on their investment and the new guy saw extensive short term profit opportunities with sponsorships and merchandising. And the whole business of Usmanov having his cash tied up in the club but with zero say is highly suspicious. Why would he bother with such an arrangement if he thought Kroenke would be around for the next 20 years? Wenger's job through all of this has been to keep us relatively competitive on a minimal spend. He's achieved that and nobody can deny it because the facts are there to see. We don't like it, we hate the way the football has stagnated and the chance of a meaningful trophy has vanished over the hill, but what we want and what the board wants are clearly two different things.

This is why I see the whole Wenger out campaign as a waste of time. We think he's fucking up, the board knows he'd delivering. So the only way to get him out if the board won't do the job is to make his life so miserable he prefers to quit. And that's something I won't do out of respect for what the guy did for us in the past. I'm not denying anything but I'm not up for a witch hunt either. Now as for those ****s who have raped and are raping the club we have all supported for year, damn right i don't respect them. The guys who ever did anything for us have been pushed out or are dead. It's just the money grabbing bastards left, the fuckers who have watched the club go down and down and down and then stand there and say they are delighted with the results. For sure, fuck them.

[Xhaka Can’t]

can we count that as a trophy?

Knock yourself out.

[GP]

Knock yourself out.

Can I knock him out instead?

[Xhaka Can’t]

Agreed. We have just witnessed a performance that was so unbelievably dire it begs all sorts of questions and reactions. After all, there was no football worth talking about. So if we're limited to that the thread should really be empty bar the kick off time and final result.

It was 0-0.

Biggest problem I have though is the petty point scoring that in fact yields as many points as the goals in this match.

You and PnG are far and away from being the issue on this thread.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Can I knock him out instead?

Dunno.

Can you?

[GP]

I don't know

[fakeyank]

I just don't get this argument. He doesn't quit because he's the manager of the club. Being the manager does not automatically give him the right to dictate the financial affairs of the club. It wouldn't give him the right to dictate the financial affairs of any club. Redknapp, Benitez, Mancini, either sacked or on the verge because they want one thing but the owners want something else. Yes, they leave "by mutual consent" - code for being sacked. Name any manager that dictates the finances, or name the club that Wenger should quit and move to where he will have control of the finances. Apparently he's asking the board to pay Walcott more. How does this fit in with the general ideas of him being in complete control of the club or reluctant to spend? Isn't it enough to highlight his ongoing faults in terms of his actual role without making up shit about stuff he has no control over?

I agree with the poster above - complaining is one thing but abusing Wenger, calling him a ****, it's a miserable way to carry on. Just about everyone disagrees with him now but that doesn't eliminate what he did for the club in the past and for that alone he deserves respect, even if it's respectful disagreement.

You have got to be kidding me NQ! How can a man with your intelligence not get a simple argument. AW has a job and he needs tools to do that job- players, medical staff, coaching staff etc. If he doesnt get his tools to do the job then why is he staying at that job? Specially when he can find a similar job where he will get ALL the tools in the world to do his job!
Its like telling me to do a powerpoint presentation without a computer... If I really needed the job (for money or whatever reasons), I'll stick by it trying to make it work BUT if I have all the money in the world with tons of other companies ready to hire me with all the facilities I need, why on earth would I still stay at my shitty job? Especially if staying at my shitty job means destroying the good legacy I built over a decade.

For a second, I'll buy your argument that AW is a helpless goat and he cant quit coz PHW and co has his family kidnapped. What do you say about the absolute dismal level of football on offer now? We have had CC squads (with much lesser talent than our starting XI) playing blinding football a few seasons back but somehow the last 2-3 seasons, our football has gone from bad to worse. No directness no movement no passion!! These, my good sir, dont come with money.. they come from the manager and coaching staff!

[AKBapologist]

Pokes head in thread.

I wonder how many games Theo Walcotts involved with have ended 0-0 this season?

*whistles*



sent from a fone

[fakeyank]

Arsenal are only at the level they are because of Wenger. People would do to remember that.

Yes, he should be making more of the resources he has at his disposal - we DO have more money than he spends, whether he doesn't spend it out of principle, looking longer term, downright delusion. Who knows?
But the fact remains he took Arsenal to a level they hadn't experienced since the 30s before he came.
Graham arguably laid some of the groundwork but his later sides were awful to watch and fairly mid-table.

I suggest people look at our history from from the 50s to the end of the 80s. We won fewer trophies in those 40 years than Wenger won in 8 years. This sense of entitlement we have is mostly because of Wenger. He has failed to maintain the level of the first half of his time with us but he's kept us up there in an era when billionaires have distorted the market and other clubs have spent big to try and break into the top 4 and failed. That shouldn't be dismissed as an achievement - neither should his failure to land a trophy despite being in a position to several times be overlooked.

It is probably time for him to move on now but I will never show him the disrespect that some on here do and I don't think him leaving is a magic bullet which will solve all our issues.

I dont know about others but AW gets abuse from me coz he takes us for a toss and talks shit whenever he opens his mouth. Illusionary domination, 2% away from domination, handbrake etc takes the piss. Add to it the very clear fact that he IS one of the crooks looting the club and being a mouth piece for the board rather than being a football manager.

I say thank you to him for 96-2006 but ever since the move to Emirates, he is not the same AW as before. He talks like the boards b*tch rather than AFC's football manager. I am not even going to go into his stupid formations, tactics and clear lack of understanding of the art of defense or playing players to their strength etc etc

[Xhaka Can’t]

FY, have you considered that he loves the Club and still thinks there will be the prospect of success at some point within the set parameters?

Frankly, I think he is wrong - he is very very unlikely to win another trophy with the culture and tactics for which he is wholly responsible. He really needs someone he respects and listens to to tell him that enough is enough and that it aint going to work.

Of course he could just be in it for the money - it is always a possibility when people and money get intertwined (that is a word isn't it?) but my gut feeling is that he does love the Club - it is pretty much his life's work and it just may be too hard for him to voluntarily walk away. But For his sake and our, it is something he must do.