World Cup Qualifiers Thread

[LDG]

They really haven't got a clue.

They need to just copy Spain's infrastructure. It'll take years, but it's the only way.

Yup.

It's what ze germans did after their failures in the early 2000's.

Now they're piling out Özil's, Benders Schweinstiger (sp) and the like.

And we've got fucking Danny Wellbeck.

DANNY FUCKING WELLBECK

[Syn]

Is everyone watching Germany on Friday?

Can't wait to see how Mertesacker gets on.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

We've still yet to shake off the idea that to be a good footballer all you need is heart, grit, determination and all that balls.

But it all starts at youth and grassroots. Coaches just getting the biggest freaks they can find and smacking it long for them, going too quickly to large goals, pitches and footballs which we've only just now started to change. Hence the Heskeys, or the Carlton Coles. The idea that the easiest way to deal with a small, technical player is to give him a kick and see how he deals with it before thinking of actually defending. It's always "win at all costs" so the coaches can live out their dreams of winning the West Cheshire U7s Division 2. Those that win invariably being the biggest, tallest, fastest and strongest. And the old boy brigade of managers like Bruce, Pulis, McLeish et al, putting the likes of Pearce and Southgate in charge of the U21s. And don't even get me started on Hodgson...

We've lagged behind other countries for decades now, 1966 was a blip amongst tournament after tournament of mediocrity, with the odd SF thrown in, balanced out by not even qualifying way before the PL was introduced. Hungary, [West] Germany, Holland, Spain and Germany all leaving us for dust and/or smashing us to bits along the way.

But the Premier League themselves aren't blameless either. The Football League is being screwed over by the PL, not least with EPPP coming in which will eventually mean most lower league teams will simply scrap their youth academies/facilities. It's all about gaining a few extra £££ so they can proclaim themselves to be the biggest and the best, all lapped up by Sky Sports. BLitW. Too many of our young players think they've made it because they're on £30/40k a week for being "the next big thing" and aren't prepared to go to a smaller club to actually play, or heaven forbid go abroad [credit to Bale for that, even if it is to a giant like Madrid]. Putting all the blame on dirty foreigners is just a lazy excuse and neatly avoids looking at the real reasons; one of the main ones being that English players just aren't as good as we claim they are. The "Golden Generation" epitomises that. 11 decent players on paper, but as a team just crap. I guess you can point to nowhere moreso than Gerrard and Lampard. And you have it again with the current lot. Walker; nothing but pace. Welbeck; nothing but a smile. Cleverley; nothing. We're being criticised because we didn't buy any British players this window, despite an absolute fuck load in the squad and in England squads at all ages.
Mediocre English players being sold for World-class prices is also part of the problem, as we know all too well, not helped by trying to fill quotas.

But what we'll do is try to copy directly Spain or Germany in style of play, which by the time it bears fruit will be equally outdated and bettered by the next system and style. They were both in our position, looking inwardly, but they actually did something about it and most importantly, poured money into it. All we're doing here is talking about it over and over again, whilst concentrating money on the top league and the top few teams in that league.

But putting arbitrary targets to "win it in 2022" will do no good either. Pointless.

[Marc Overmars]

The new guidelines The FA released a while ago is a start but it's going to take a generation for it to bear fruit.

I'll never forget in America a few years ago we had a kick around with some Spanish kids, the contrast in style was so evident. Although tbf we GHEL'd them and won.

[milla]

International football is shit, it should be abandoned years ago.

[Cripps_orig]

It's been better than club football last couple of years tbh

[McNamara That Ghost...]

We've still yet to shake off the idea that to be a good footballer all you need is heart, grit, determination and all that balls.

But it all starts at youth and grassroots. Coaches just getting the biggest freaks they can find and smacking it long for them, going too quickly to large goals, pitches and footballs which we've only just now started to change. Hence the Heskeys, or the Carlton Coles. The idea that the easiest way to deal with a small, technical player is to give him a kick and see how he deals with it before thinking of actually defending. It's always "win at all costs" so the coaches can live out their dreams of winning the West Cheshire U7s Division 2. Those that win invariably being the biggest, tallest, fastest and strongest. And the old boy brigade of managers like Bruce, Pulis, McLeish et al, putting the likes of Pearce and Southgate in charge of the U21s. And don't even get me started on Hodgson...

We've lagged behind other countries for decades now, 1966 was a blip amongst tournament after tournament of mediocrity, with the odd SF thrown in, balanced out by not even qualifying way before the PL was introduced. Hungary, [West] Germany, Holland, Spain and Germany all leaving us for dust and/or smashing us to bits along the way.

But the Premier League themselves aren't blameless either. The Football League is being screwed over by the PL, not least with EPPP coming in which will eventually mean most lower league teams will simply scrap their youth academies/facilities. It's all about gaining a few extra £££ so they can proclaim themselves to be the biggest and the best, all lapped up by Sky Sports. BLitW. Too many of our young players think they've made it because they're on £30/40k a week for being "the next big thing" and aren't prepared to go to a smaller club to actually play, or heaven forbid go abroad [credit to Bale for that, even if it is to a giant like Madrid]. Putting all the blame on dirty foreigners is just a lazy excuse and neatly avoids looking at the real reasons; one of the main ones being that English players just aren't as good as we claim they are. The "Golden Generation" epitomises that. 11 decent players on paper, but as a team just crap. I guess you can point to nowhere moreso than Gerrard and Lampard. And you have it again with the current lot. Walker; nothing but pace. Welbeck; nothing but a smile. Cleverley; nothing. We're being criticised because we didn't buy any British players this window, despite an absolute fuck load in the squad and in England squads at all ages.
Mediocre English players being sold for World-class prices is also part of the problem, as we know all too well, not helped by trying to fill quotas.

But what we'll do is try to copy directly Spain or Germany in style of play, which by the time it bears fruit will be equally outdated and bettered by the next system and style. They were both in our position, looking inwardly, but they actually did something about it and most importantly, poured money into it. All we're doing here is talking about it over and over again, whilst concentrating money on the top league and the top few teams in that league.

But putting arbitrary targets to "win it in 2022" will do no good either. Pointless.

Very well said.

Dyke's words are windowdressing and nothing more. He talks about things in ideal terms: more English players to pick from, semi-finals of the Euros in 2020, World Cup winners in 2022 but how on earth can you set targets like that? It doesn't just happen by one person's will.

This part in particular is absolute crap:

One of the interesting things about life is what I call the law of unintended consequences. What none of us at that dinner could have foreseen was that because of the very success of the Premier League, 20 years later we would end up with a League largely owned by foreign owners, managed by foreign managers and played by foreign players and that, as a result, it could be argued that the England set-up has been weakened, rather than strengthened, by the creation of the Premier League. Saying this I am not being xenophobic but my job is to help ensure that English football and particularly the England team is in a healthy state.

As far as I am aware England have failed to qualify for a tournament near the inception of the Premier League (second season in) and again in 2008. Both times with an English coach at the helm and again, that might well be the case this time too.

He is setting this up as business objectives (KPIs!), perhaps Germany did the same from 2000 onwards, I'm not sure but I don't think doing that is going to yield any greater results than if you merely focus on coaching at the lowest levels first. That's what needs to change, having a greater pool of English players doesn't mean you're going to have a greater pool of good English players and if you do is doesn't preclude dinosaur football from being coached in to players with talent, as you mention before.

Full transcript: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...ranscript.html

[Kano]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...c-motd-retired

excellent news

[Cripps_orig]

Not really.

He's brilliant.

[GP]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/...c-motd-retired

excellent news

On the face of it, yes. But you know he'll be replaced by someone even worse.