Match Reaction vs Soton (away)

[Niall_Quinn]

There are two key things being discussed here:

Our expectations for the season and last night's match.

Over the course of the season, we have performed very well and are in the running against two teams who we really are doing well to be in touch with or slightly ahead of. That those two teams are the ones that have seemingly unlimited resources is no coincidence. Over the course of the season, it would be some achievement to be even pushing them.

The second thing is last nights performance. This has nothing whatsoever to do with those two teams. By all accounts we stunk the place out. And it is that which we need to sort out.

That's about right. The team and manager deserve credit for a good season overall where we've seen improvement in some key areas, notably the defence. But last night, when we needed 3 points, we saw a negative team selection and negative tactics from the manager. The dropped points last night were down to Wenger more than anyone else. He deserves the plaudits for a good season so far and he deserves the criticism when he fucks up, which he certainly did last night. He'd already had a taste of the result of such negativity in the Everton game, lesson NOT learned. He refused to make any significant changes last night, which compounded the fuck up. If we're to fight to the finish then the manager as well as the team will need a set of balls. Wenger had no balls last night. Hope it's the last time we see this shit from him but I doubt it.

Now we are two thirds through the season and top (which I still think we'll be once the weekend games unwind) there certainly should be an expectation of winning this league. Why not? We have come this far against the dopers, so we keep the effort going for the final third of the season. Yes we have injuries, but now is the time for others to step up. Including the manager. Get it together Wenger, you get all that money for challenges like this. No shrinking please, find your balls and let's go for it.

[Power n Glory]

I've given myself time to think about this, and while I don't want to be knee jerk, I'm afraid that last night summarises in many ways why we should be much more circumspect about our so-called 'progress' than some Gooners are.

I could only listen to the match (switching between radio shows) - but by all accounts, the first half was truly, truly awful from us. How can a team supposedly full of confidence, playing a fixture that lets face it was an essential 3 points if we were to maintain any real pretence of challenging for the title (given our 2 horrendous coming runs) - come out playing like that?

For me, that is totally down to the manager. It started on Monday, when his near-hysterical reaction to Mourinho's taunting showed us a brittle manager who has let Maureen get under his skin. It really was not the best rallying cry for his players. And the negativity continued with his team selection last night. Bringing a non-match fit Arteta in alongside Flamini in midfield was a very poor selection - and one that has made the team look unbalanced almost whenever its been tried this season. It meant that the initiative was handed on a plate to Southampton, and was simply not, IMHO how league leaders should have approached this tie.

The truth is that while Steve Bould has clearly been allowed to tighten us up at the back, we have not looked truly threatening going forwards for a while now. Wenger might choose to praise his team's 'resilience' to keep going in adversity, but as PNG says - we have looked complacent and lacking in focus for a few games now - and its an age old Arsenal problem.

Letters chooses to look at the competition to explain why we won't win the league. Well its that opposition that we have to beat to win things - and compare and contrast them with us. Both Citeh and the Chavs have had games where they have let themselves down this season, but (the City/Watford FA Cup tie apart) - the trend is that both teams have improved as their new managers have found their right balance of players. Wenger's team has not improved - despite his vastly greater longevity and experience with his players.

Even when we were 7 points clear a couple of months ago - most pundits and bookies put us 3rd favourites for the league, pointing out that we had had a relatively easy first half to the season. Letters can argue that this is because of Chelsea's and Citeh's resources - but that is not the whole reason. Manure were way out-resourced by the same teams last season but romped the league. The reason why we are not considered proper title rivals by most is that we have a horrible history of crumbling under pressure. In 2008, we were 5 points clear at the top of the league in February, but imploded. For more seasons than I wish to remember, we have been in with a theoretical chance of 3 or 4 trophies, only to crash out of everything in a matter of weeks.

This season, we have lost to Manure during their most inept period; failed to beat a developing Chavs team at home; been spanked by Citeh and dropped points against the likes of Everton at home and now Southampton away. Lets not forget also that we could't secure a draw against Napoli that would have seen us top our CL group - and instead came close to going out of a group that we had led from the outset.

I am afraid that nothing I have seen from us this season suggests that we will not implode again during our upcoming 'crunch' periods. The fact that its so likely to be 'same old' 'same old' Arsenal is what makes results like last night's depressing - not knee-jerkiness.

It’s been one of those weeks. I had high hope for this season and although we’re still top and in with a shout, I doubt we’ll do it unless we make a major signing that can really give us a lift. I hope that Draxler deal goes through.

I don’t think Wenger can deal with the pressure. I still don’t know why he went out of his way to talk about Chelsea selling Mata as if it’s a disadvantage to us. It’s not the sort of message you want to put out there. Many on here dismiss it but I’ve always questioned why he’s complaining when we’re in such a strong position. We should just focus on us. All this talk of City and Chelsea’s transfers is very negative and sets a defeatist tone around our club. Take Letter’s as an example, straight off the bat he’s blaming City and Chelsea. If the players and coach have that same mentality then we’re screwed and it seems like that’s the thought process around the club. It doesn’t help us. The positive noise coming from the club and the signing of Ozil set us off this season. Even though the fixtures have been easy on us, we’d have royally screwed up on a lot of those games two years ago. We’d get complacent and drop silly points.

We have to do business before the window closes. Injuries are racking up and a couple of bad games will leave us fighting for 4th place. The league is that tight and we can’t afford a sudden shake of confidence. The manager has to show some leadership and stake his claim for the title. Stop with all the moaning and get on with it. There is no point in talking about players coming back from injury. We’ve crocked Ramsey because he’s been overplayed then rushed back and it makes no sense not to start players like Podolski when he’s been scoring goals. Wenger needs to get it together for the final stretch.

[Letters]

I didn't say we hadn't improved

Umm. You said:

Wenger's team has not improved - despite his vastly greater longevity and experience with his players.

Now you're saying they have, listing some reasons why and asking whether we've improved enough which I agree that is a better question.

As for why compare last season - that is the most relevant comparison. You mention 2007/8, how many of those players are still playing for us? I can't be arsed checking but it can't be enough to make the comparison relevant. It's a completely different set of players now. Comparisons with last season are the most valid ones as it's mostly the same players so you're comparing (more or less) like for like.

You cite our problems with 'pressure', but as I said in that Liverpool game they'd have leap-frogged us had we lost, since the turn of the year we've had City and Chelsea right on our tails. Every game has been a must-win game as they've kept winning and till last night we had won every one. One slip-up and you cite it as the old problem of us not winning under pressure.

I agree we haven't made the most of our resources but we have been hampered by the stadium move and poor commercial deals, those are coming to an end now and while I agree we've been over-cautious in the transfer market the Ozil signing is an indication that we are ready to play with the big boys now. We need more, but it's a start.

Obviously we can only judge this season at the end but so far I'm happy with where we are and am content that the club are heading in the right direction. The important thing is we continue that.

[Power n Glory]

Umm. You said:


Now you're saying they have, listing some reasons why and asking whether we've improved enough which I agree that is a better question.

As for why compare last season - that is the most relevant comparison. You mention 2007/8, how many of those players are still playing for us? I can't be arsed checking but it can't be enough to make the comparison relevant. It's a completely different set of players now. Comparisons with last season are the most valid ones as it's mostly the same players so you're comparing (more or less) like for like.

You cite our problems with 'pressure', but as I said in that Liverpool game they'd have leap-frogged us had we lost, since the turn of the year we've had City and Chelsea right on our tails. Every game has been a must-win game as they've kept winning and till last night we had won every one. One slip-up and you cite it as the old problem of us not winning under pressure.

I agree we haven't made the most of our resources but we have been hampered by the stadium move and poor commercial deals, those are coming to an end now and while I agree we've been over-cautious in the transfer market the Ozil signing is an indication that we are ready to play with the big boys now. We need more, but it's a start.

Obviously we can only judge this season at the end but so far I'm happy with where we are and am content that the club are heading in the right direction. The important thing is we continue that.

But what’s one Ozil on the pitch for us when oil rich clubs can have such players on the field and on their bench!

[Letters]

But what’s one Ozil on the pitch for us when oil rich clubs can have such players on the field and on their bench!

It's a step closer to them but even if you're being sarcastic you're right, it's not enough to bridge the gap.

[Niall_Quinn]

I still don’t know why he went out of his way to talk about Chelsea selling Mata as if it’s a disadvantage to us. It’s not the sort of message you want to put out there.

Because what he said is related to FFP and this could be a crucial factor in the coming seasons if it is applied properly. We are starting to generate significant revenues using proper business methods so theoretically we should have an advantage, and rightly so as this is about financial FAIR play. We haven't been dumping sugar daddy cash into the club or using shady self sponsorship to balance the books. The chavs and gypos are doing the opposite to us. Their financial figures are manipulated and if the FFP rulings go against them they will suffer penalties for financial UNFAIR play.

These decisions are being made right now and the outcome will be crucial. Will the chavs and gypos be permitted to stick two fingers up to the regulating authorities or will the new rules be applied in the proper manner? If the latter then we are suddenly in the driving seat and the comedy clubs are scrambling. Wenger put the message out at the right time and in the right manner. The thick, hyped-up twats in the media decided to turn it into a Mata soap opera instead. Maureen threw a fit because he'll be more than aware his job will be a lot harder if the rules are applied and he can no longer apply his preferred management tactics, namely chucking cash at every problem.

The authorities respect Wenger and use our club as a model example. Whether they have the balls to go up against major criminals like Abaramovich and the arab scum that have hijacked city is another matter. That will need balls. Wenger is reminding them of this. And why not? He's trying to do whatever he can to ensure 10 years of sacrifice and careful planning is not undone by financial doping elsewhere. He's doing his job.

[Power n Glory]

Do you think UEFA and FIFA are actually paying attention to Wenger? I don't think that's the way to get his message across. There are more powerful people within the club that can talk on that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Do you think UEFA and FIFA are actually paying attention to Wenger? I don't think that's the way to get his message across. There are more powerful people within the club that can talk on that.

Everyone in the club has been talking about it, excluding Silent Stan. I don't think they pay exclusive attention to Wenger, but they do seem to pay a lot of attention to our financial model. I would say, like most large and influential organisations, they have people in one camp who genuinely want to improve the game, then they have corrupt bastards on the take. Wenger, along with other figures who value the integrity of the game, will be lobbying to one faction, the chavs and gypos will be bunging cash and favours at the other group. I can't prove that of course, but it's the normal way for business and politics to interact and the usual outcome when criminal elements posing as respectable businesses are involved.

[Dein-machine]

We're 15 points better off than we were at this stage last year and we haven't improved?
I'd say our record this year (W16 D4 L3) is significantly better that last year's W10 D7 L6 at this stage.

Last year we scraped into the top 4, I don't see how it's reasonable to expect us to win the league this year.
In order to assess whether we can win the league of course you have to look at how strong the other teams are.
City's squad is frightening, the fact they didn't win the league last year is a combination of poor management, Fergie being Fergie and RvP being brilliant and fit all season. They've looked far poorer this season with Moyes and with Rooney and RvP getting injuries.



We've also beaten Dortmund away (who I believe had won every home game prior to our visit), won away at Newcastle (who had only lost one home game and beaten both Utd and Chelsea at home at that stage) and beaten Liverpool at home (who would have leapfrogged us to go top had we not done so. I can cherry pick good results just as easily as you can cherry pick bad ones, and I can cherry pick bad results for our rivals (City lost away at Cardiff and Sunderland - the current bottom 2 - and, like us, drew away at Southampton)

I don't think we'll win the league because over a long season I think City and Chelsea both have too much for us.
You can blame Wenger if you like and of course he's not perfect, but we're competing with sides who don't have to cope with fatigue or injuries like we do. We've done well so far but when push comes to shove I think we'll be found wanting. The resources of City and Chelsea are a massive factor.

Do you think, given the last 2 seasons where we've just about limped into the top 4, the title is a reasonable expectation this year?

"You can blame Wenger if you like and ofcourse he's not perfect, but we're competing with sides who don't have to cpoe with fatigue or injuries like we do" - who's fault is this? - A whole summer window with big money to spend & he buys no-one. We don't even know if he would have bought Ozil had he not got so much stick after the Villa Game. He had plenty of opportunity to get a few 10-15 mill squad players that would have helped with fatigue or injuries. And low & behold, having no striking options apart from Giroud, Rambo out, Theo & his goals/assists out - we're a day away from spending fuck all again in the Jan window. The early season form of Giroud, Ramsey & Ozil has fizzled out, mosty becuase Wenger's tactics have become desperately defensive sitting back on leads against pub teams when they're there for the taking. This will get us nowhere against the better teams. When we attack with pace & numbers at high tempo we're capable of beating anyone but we only give the players license to do it if we're behind or trying to win at home against Fulham or Cardiff. Look at the differnce when we came out for the 2nd half last night, bodies up the pitch in & around the area - its the only way we know how to play, so do it from the start.
We go a goal behind, this generally means we have to score to get back in the game, maybe a few to win it - why then did we not IMMEDIATELY bring on Polds or Ox to replace one of our 2 defensive midfielders ( which was a joke in the 1st place ), these are tactical decesions that top managers make & Wenger never does it. I dont expect us to win the league, never did but I do expect us to play the football we teach at Colney, otherwise bring in Pullis.

[Letters]

who's fault is this?.

No-one's. I agree Wenger should have done more in the transfer market but you're dreaming if you think that whatever he did we could have a squad as strong as City's.