Summer Transfer Speculation and Shit

[Niall_Quinn]

It’s amazing how you can’t see that he’s culpable if that’s your stance on the Board. He’s delivering targets for them and not the fans or his players.

And it's amazing some fans are screaming BUY PLAYERS! Spend Money! And then ignore all the work it has taken to actually make the money required to BUY PLAYERS! Spend Money! Not just SOME money, but the big money that's now required to buy the same quality players that cost a fraction in previous years. Football has changed, they say. Wenger is a dinosaur. Get Wenger out, get somebody else in. And then let the somebody else spend the money that just magically appeared despite Wenger's one man mission to rob the club. It could well be that in terms of what happens strictly on the pitch Wenger has made mistakes, most of us agree on this, I think it may be all of us. But for some that's not enough, they need to take the massive successes that have undoubtedly transformed the club and placed it on a stable footing in a crazy environment and call the guy who engineered it a thief. Astonishing. Real, gold plated thieves come in and start splashing the cash to buy trophies and this is viewed as laudable. Wenger battles through ten years to deliver a remedy based on sustainable business practices and he is the thief. Of course if the board now says thanks and cashes out then THEY are legitimate thieves in their own right. They have said no, they won't do this. They have said the money will be pumped back onto the pitch. As fans we choose to believe them or not. For me the arrival of Ozil was a tick in their favour so I'm giving them a chance.

But none of this would be possible without the last 10 years of extreme effort and somebody was instrumental in holding it all together during that period. Yes, the incompetent fool and thief Wenger. Get the bastard out and bring in a chequebook specialist to spend, spend, spend. Start the told you so music playing full blast and head down the pub to sing songs at Utd fans. "We" did it!

Price of everything, value of nothing.

[Özim]

Why is Wenger painted as some kind of saint who produces miracles and out of the goodness of his own heart and whom without we'd be a nothing club?

Noone is saying Wenger is a thief, he's a manager who delivered lots of success, champagne football and some of the best players we've ever seen, for that we can be thankful.

He does however earn a packet, more than most managers, I'm sure you could find a host of managers who would take the job for the money he gets, has free reign in that he has a say in many things most other managers wouldn't even know about and can do as he likes without anyone questioning him. He has also had IMO little consideration for the fans over the period of the stadium repayment, several times choosing to criticise them and many times patronising them, to protect his team/the board.

He's been a top manager, but it's not like he's not being rewarded handsomely and for the amount of money he gets he can't exactly complain, who wouldn't want his job?

PNG has a point, whilst he's saved on wages and transfers he's been happy to watch his salary get higher and higher, clearly he's not just in it out of the goodness of his heart.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why is Wenger painted as some kind of saint who produces miracles and out of the goodness of his own heart and whom without we'd be a nothing club?

Because he's not painted as that, I suppose.

He's painted as the manager who guided the club through a massive project to step up our financial muscle in a sustainable way so we can pay the exorbitant cost of being in the top flight. The alternative to the Wenger approach would be opening the doors to Usmanov. Those were our two options. In the course of implementing and completing the financial plan we haven't won trophies, if people think this is a failing then it's a legitimate enough argument, they can say Wenger hasn't done enough. But some are focusing only on this aspect of the last 10 years and carefully avoiding everything else. And some certainly do go as far as calling him a thief. He hasn't delivered trophies therefore he has taken wages he hasn't earned. Yes, if you view the last decade in such simple terms and devoid of the detail there is a non-point to be made that Wenger has cost the club. But you have to exclude most of the facts to make this stick. If another manager comes in and has a life made ten times easier through Wenger's efforts, I hope these "fans" at least have the good grace to acknowledge the huge contribution Wenger has made to this club. i think some of them won't. I think some of them will have a party on that day. It's this bitter refusal to look at the broader picture that pisses me off. I'm not saying that's you, btw. I'm not even saying it's anything other than a couple of fools on this forum. I'm more looking at these know nothing spotty dickhead kids who know as much about football as an actual football, wear their shirts, wave their flags and tweet how Wenger is a cunt. I;d really like to see those bastards go elsewhere, like chav or gypo land, where they belong.

[Power n Glory]

And it's amazing some fans are screaming BUY PLAYERS! Spend Money! And then ignore all the work it has taken to actually make the money required to BUY PLAYERS! Spend Money! Not just SOME money, but the big money that's now required to buy the same quality players that cost a fraction in previous years. Football has changed, they say. Wenger is a dinosaur. Get Wenger out, get somebody else in. And then let the somebody else spend the money that just magically appeared despite Wenger's one man mission to rob the club. It could well be that in terms of what happens strictly on the pitch Wenger has made mistakes, most of us agree on this, I think it may be all of us. But for some that's not enough, they need to take the massive successes that have undoubtedly transformed the club and placed it on a stable footing in a crazy environment and call the guy who engineered it a thief. Astonishing. Real, gold plated thieves come in and start splashing the cash to buy trophies and this is viewed as laudable. Wenger battles through ten years to deliver a remedy based on sustainable business practices and he is the thief. Of course if the board now says thanks and cashes out then THEY are legitimate thieves in their own right. They have said no, they won't do this. They have said the money will be pumped back onto the pitch. As fans we choose to believe them or not. For me the arrival of Ozil was a tick in their favour so I'm giving them a chance.

But none of this would be possible without the last 10 years of extreme effort and somebody was instrumental in holding it all together during that period. Yes, the incompetent fool and thief Wenger. Get the bastard out and bring in a chequebook specialist to spend, spend, spend. Start the told you so music playing full blast and head down the pub to sing songs at Utd fans. "We" did it!

Price of everything, value of nothing.

Oh, don't start ranting! That's got nothing to do with this conversation. Your logic is totally flawed.

Wenger battles through ten years to deliver a remedy based on sustainable business practices and he is the thief. Of course if the board now says thanks and cashes out then THEY are legitimate thieves in their own right. They have said no, they won't do this. They have said the money will be pumped back onto the pitch. As fans we choose to believe them or not. For me the arrival of Ozil was a tick in their favour so I'm giving them a chance.

You keep trying to separate the Board and Wenger when it's pretty clear that their visions are aligned. That's too hard for you to accept. Why would Wenger try to keep costs low and deliver on their targets if he wasn't on Board their vision? Why would he justify a price hike? Wenger came up with the blueprint if these guys are thieves. He chooses to buy undervalued players and sell for maximum profit, he came up with the over 30s contract policy, he's the one thoroughly convinced that 4th is an achievement. He serves his masters well.

[Özim]

Because he's not painted as that, I suppose.

He's painted as the manager who guided the club through a massive project to step up our financial muscle in a sustainable way so we can pay the exorbitant cost of being in the top flight. The alternative to the Wenger approach would be opening the doors to Usmanov. Those were our two options. In the course of implementing and completing the financial plan we haven't won trophies, if people think this is a failing then it's a legitimate enough argument, they can say Wenger hasn't done enough. But some are focusing only on this aspect of the last 10 years and carefully avoiding everything else. And some certainly do go as far as calling him a thief. He hasn't delivered trophies therefore he has taken wages he hasn't earned. Yes, if you view the last decade in such simple terms and devoid of the detail there is a non-point to be made that Wenger has cost the club. But you have to exclude most of the facts to make this stick. If another manager comes in and has a life made ten times easier through Wenger's efforts, I hope these "fans" at least have the good grace to acknowledge the huge contribution Wenger has made to this club. i think some of them won't. I think some of them will have a party on that day. It's this bitter refusal to look at the broader picture that pisses me off. I'm not saying that's you, btw. I'm not even saying it's anything other than a couple of fools on this forum. I'm more looking at these know nothing spotty dickhead kids who know as much about football as an actual football, wear their shirts, wave their flags and tweet how Wenger is a cunt. I;d really like to see those bastards go elsewhere, like chav or gypo land, where they belong.

I think if a new manager comes in his life will be more difficult in a way, not financially of course but Wenger has been here so long the whole club is about him (about like Ferguson and Moyes), thus a new manager will need some time to changes things, I personally don't think it's great to keep a manager for so long, the club becomes a bit stale because of it and it makes things more difficult for his successor.

Obviously the setup of the club is great and the finances will be good I'm not debating this at all, but it's hard to follow when a manager has been in charge for 18 years+

[Dein-machine]

Because he's not painted as that, I suppose.

He's painted as the manager who guided the club through a massive project to step up our financial muscle in a sustainable way so we can pay the exorbitant cost of being in the top flight. The alternative to the Wenger approach would be opening the doors to Usmanov. Those were our two options. In the course of implementing and completing the financial plan we haven't won trophies, if people think this is a failing then it's a legitimate enough argument, they can say Wenger hasn't done enough. But some are focusing only on this aspect of the last 10 years and carefully avoiding everything else. And some certainly do go as far as calling him a thief. He hasn't delivered trophies therefore he has taken wages he hasn't earned. Yes, if you view the last decade in such simple terms and devoid of the detail there is a non-point to be made that Wenger has cost the club. But you have to exclude most of the facts to make this stick. If another manager comes in and has a life made ten times easier through Wenger's efforts, I hope these "fans" at least have the good grace to acknowledge the huge contribution Wenger has made to this club. i think some of them won't. I think some of them will have a party on that day. It's this bitter refusal to look at the broader picture that pisses me off. I'm not saying that's you, btw. I'm not even saying it's anything other than a couple of fools on this forum. I'm more looking at these know nothing spotty dickhead kids who know as much about football as an actual football, wear their shirts, wave their flags and tweet how Wenger is a cunt. I;d really like to see those bastards go elsewhere, like chav or gypo land, where they belong.

Firstly, I think Wenger deep down is at a stage now where he knows that what is right & needed for the team but it goes against the grain of everything he believes in. I am & always will be massively thankful to him for what he has achieved for my club. I have not been very complimentary about him in recent years but if I met him on the street I would be honoured to shake his hand.
You mention the stadium & how well has done to achieve what he has done & in a recent post you also mentioned beginning to deliver on the pitch "as scheduled". What schedule are you working to. When Danny Fitz & Wenger told us the news about the Emirates move & how it would mean we could now compete to become Europe's best, I simply don't remember any schedule's. Certainly not 10 years & to be honest are we actually any closer to that than we were when we started. We were told that 40,000+
at home games would cover stadium payments & the balance plus new lucrative commercial deals would mean we had money to spend. Again no mention of a decade of financially struggles. Wenger was part of this & how many times was he or the board asked if we had money to spend & answered like they were politicians. I don't think he's a thief but he was part of the lie that cemented the move. Yes, its wonderful to have a modern stadium & be told we are finally ready to compete but nowadays we have to be more ambitious & ready to spend a little bit more to get the quality needed as opposed to our Highbury days. We don't have a manager in that mould, if we're not going to do all in our power to compete with the Chavs & the Mancs then we may aswell admit that we have spent 10 years paying for a stadium to watch a team struggling to finish top 4 in England let alone the "best in Europe".

[I am invisible]

Again, I think it's important to note the massive difference between a manager and a head coach here - managers are responsible for large parts of the running of their clubs at all levels , whereas head coaches have few responsibilities or cares beyond first-team matters. This is why I think genuine managers like Wenger can justifiably command higher salaries than coaches - because they do more work for it.

Personally speaking, I don't think there should be any questions about whether Wenger deserves his salary, because I think he's absolutely earned it for the careful job he's done in guiding us through the last 10 years (and for nearly 2 decades of service in general) - I do think it's entirely reasonable to ask whether we still need a world-class manager to help steer us through some ridiculously tricky times, or whether we'd now be better off with a more straightforward but specialized, head coach, but there's ways of putting it. Just because our needs have changed and the game has moved on, it doesn't mean that Wenger's a total c--t who doesn't know how to do anything, and that every single thing he does is wrong - maybe it just means that he's a man who's been asked to do a job for the club, that that job is pretty much done now, and that it's time for something new for everyone?

[Özim]

Again, I think it's important to note the massive difference between a manager and a head coach here - managers are responsible for large parts of the running of their clubs at all levels , whereas head coaches have few responsibilities or cares beyond first-team matters. This is why I think genuine managers like Wenger can justifiably command higher salaries than coaches - because they do more work for it.

Personally speaking, I don't think there should be any questions about whether Wenger deserves his salary, because I think he's absolutely earned it for the careful job he's done in guiding us through the last 10 years (and for nearly 2 decades of service in general) - I do think it's entirely reasonable to ask whether we still need a world-class manager to help steer us through some ridiculously tricky times, or whether we'd now be better off with a more straightforward but specialized, head coach, but there's ways of putting it. Just because our needs have changed and the game has moved on, it doesn't mean that Wenger's a total c--t who doesn't know how to do anything, and that every single thing he does is wrong - maybe it just means that he's a man who's been asked to do a job for the club, and that that job is pretty much done now?

A manager's job is to manage the team and everything related to that, it's not to get involved in the finances or any other parts, it never has been. Wenger has taken it upon himself to get involved in all sorts for some reason, that's not his job and should never have been.

That's always been the case with managers, nothings changed in that regard.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh, don't start ranting! That's got nothing to do with this conversation. Your logic is totally flawed.



You keep trying to separate the Board and Wenger when it's pretty clear that their visions are aligned. That's too hard for you to accept. Why would Wenger try to keep costs low and deliver on their targets if he wasn't on Board their vision? Why would he justify a price hike? Wenger came up with the blueprint if these guys are thieves. He chooses to buy undervalued players and sell for maximum profit, he came up with the over 30s contract policy, he's the one thoroughly convinced that 4th is an achievement. He serves his masters well.

Why have you introduced the idea I'm claiming a split between the manager and the board? The old lot have cashed out and are gone. The new lot are investing, so it appears. Where did I say their aims differ from Wenger's?

Or put in a simpler way, why are you making shit up?

[LDG]

Again, I think it's important to note the massive difference between a manager and a head coach here - managers are responsible for large parts of the running of their clubs at all levels , whereas head coaches have few responsibilities or cares beyond first-team matters. This is why I think genuine managers like Wenger can justifiably command higher salaries than coaches - because they do more work for it.

Personally speaking, I don't think there should be any questions about whether Wenger deserves his salary, because I think he's absolutely earned it for the careful job he's done in guiding us through the last 10 years (and for nearly 2 decades of service in general) - I do think it's entirely reasonable to ask whether we still need a world-class manager to help steer us through some ridiculously tricky times, or whether we'd now be better off with a more straightforward but specialized, head coach, but there's ways of putting it. Just because our needs have changed and the game has moved on, it doesn't mean that Wenger's a total c--t who doesn't know how to do anything, and that every single thing he does is wrong - maybe it just means that he's a man who's been asked to do a job for the club, that that job is pretty much done now, and that it's time for something new for everyone?

Exactly.