The Bitter Truth?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Sorry - but I just do not accept your points about Liverpool and Everton. Both teams are below ours in terms of resources - and that is partly why the Wenger edifice is crumbling.

Everton have done exceptionally well this season, but the fact remains that they have bought 14 players in this season, they might have made a profit in the transfer market but this is offset by the exponential rise in their wage bill (especially in the short term even if they are only paying 50% of Barry and Lukaku's wages). Maybe it's Wengers fault that he doesn't have the right scouting network to bring in half decent players on free transfers but i am partly being frivalous because such a thing is near on impossible, and we were incredibly lucky to have Flamini fall in our laps the way he did.
Liverpool have spent 300 million in the past four or five years, with what i've explained to you about how we can only make a profit from player sales because whatever turnover we make is depleted by the wage bill, the only conclusion you can make is that like most of the clubs competing Liverpool are doing so as a result of a financial beneficiary rather than self-sufficiency which is impossible.
As i explained we benefited similarly (albeit on a smaller scale) when Danny Fiszman opened his wallet so we could buy players like Emmanuel Petit and Marc Overmars.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Wrong again, I'm afraid. The figures are based on the weekly wages the teams' players are paid.

Yes but what i'm saying to you is the weekly wages you are taking that figure from is at the end of last season, not this current season. And i have doubts about it's veracity anyway, especially with what it claims about Spurs who have Adebayor on 180k a week.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The fact remains is that for a club of our size, the money we bring in is as much as we can possibly can. The board aren't upping the ticket prices just for greed, it's because they know they can't run a club as a business
A lot through tv revenue, high gate receipts, good commercial deals....yet two thirds of this is going to pay players wages. And we know we can't cut the wage bill without decreasing the quality of the squad still further...you can shout, no, no, no and deny it all you like but football is not a sustainable business. It's a playground for oligarchs and plutocrats.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Multitudes of sites on google will give you the wages of the Liverpool squad as of August 2013, it's certainly no secret that Luis Suarez is on 200k a week and that Gerrard is on about 150k a week.
I wouldn't take it hard, Spurs' wage bill is also bigger than ours and look at how they are doing.

I'm happy to say they'll be broadly similar without knowing exactly whose is higher than whose until the next set of accounts are released, if only to end this.

It's all much of a muchness anyway.

I'm still not sure who is arguing what on this thread, or why. I'm not even sure why I care.

[GP]

Anyone fancy a pint?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm just trying to make the point that it's overly reductive and simplistic to blame it all on Wenger

Has Roberto Martinez done better with the funds at his disposal than Wenger?...of course

But Martinez has planned for short term gains, we have to plan for the long term because Everton can afford not to have top four football where as we cannot.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I'm happy to say they'll be broadly similar without knowing exactly whose is higher than whose until the next set of accounts are released, if only to end this.

It's all much of a muchness anyway.

I'm still not sure who is arguing what on this thread, or why. I'm not even sure why I care.

I am just pointing out that the reason your in the title is because your current squad cost you far in excess of what we paid for ours, obviously comparatively speaking your current squad is far less than what city and chelsea have paid for theirs but you also have the added bonus of having the third best player in the world....which could have been a pearl amongst swine with someone like Brendan Rodgers but seemingly he has a competent enough team around him to make sure he doesn't fuck it up like King Kenny did.

[IBK]

Yes but what i'm saying to you is the weekly wages you are taking that figure from is at the end of last season, not this current season. And i have doubts about it's veracity anyway, especially with what it claims about Spurs who have Adebayor on 180k a week.

Unless you can provide unequivocal and up to date proof that Liverpool have accelerated past us - despite our signing of the most expensive player in the clubs history, then we can only base our arguments on the latest available figures - and common sense. The only event that we have seen that was likely to fundamentally change Liverpool's salary profile since the Summer is Suarez being persuaded to stay. Logic cannot accept that whatever they paid him - if indeed they did. Was more than 42M plus Ozil's wages. I mean come on!

[IBK]

I'm just trying to make the point that it's overly reductive and simplistic to blame it all on Wenger

Has Roberto Martinez done better with the funds at his disposal than Wenger?...of course

But Martinez has planned for short term gains, we have to plan for the long term because Everton can afford not to have top four football where as we cannot.

Mate - noone can blame you for your loyalty. But this whole thread is about how we have become conditioned, as Gooners, to make apologies for our team and manager. Whatever arguments we can marshal for how well Mersyside is doing this season doesn't change the fact that they are doing better than we are, relative to their resources. And that is throwing our manager's failings into obvious and uncomfortable relief.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Unless you can provide unequivocal and up to date proof that Liverpool have accelerated past us - despite our signing of the most expensive player in the clubs history, then we can only base our arguments on the latest available figures - and common sense. The only event that we have seen that was likely to fundamentally change Liverpool's salary profile since the Summer is Suarez being persuaded to stay. Logic cannot accept that whatever they paid him - if indeed they did. Was more than 42M plus Ozil's wages. I mean come on!

Liverpool have spent 300million in the last five years and have a wage bill in the vicinity of our own, when you consider that even with marketing as a global brand they would bring in less than us when it comes to match day revenue, and considerably less than us from Tv deals. And we as a club with a wage bill in and around that of Liverpools and despite the money we bring in, we have it wiped out almost by our wage bill it makes you question where Liverpool get their money from. It's not from being a self sustaining business because that isn't possible